Getting out of a rental contract

TomF

My daughter and three other college girls rented an apartment in Dublin for €1300 a month with a 12-month term. When the school year ended, one of the girls wanted to go home to work to earn money for next school year, so the four gave a month's notice to the landlord.

He responded that they forfeit the deposit (also €1300) and he will hold them responsible for the balance of the rent in the contract (July and August for a total of €2600). This means that for those four girls to get out of the contract will cost them €3900!

I looked at the signed contract last night and there is no provision in it for the tenants to give a month or any time notice to leave the apartment. However, the landlord has a clause allowing him to issue a Notice to Quit with 28 days notice to put tenants out for any reason.

I'm wondering if a contract like this would be supported if it were taken to a court. It seems to me that courts have looked at the "reasonability" of contracts in some situations, and there might be a chance for the girls to leave without losing a small fortune.

Maybe a good aspect of all this is that the landlord is being so rigid because he says the rental market in Dublin is becoming difficult for landlords (heh, heh).

This is being posted here because I think landlords, tenants and maybe even lawyers read this forum. I'm also going to post the same in the Business/Economy/Finance board under Society. Maybe someone with a like experience can reply.

Captain Trips

I anticipated a situation a while back renting that after 6 months I would possibly be moving from Dublin temporarily. Although the contract was for 12 months, I asked to put a 6-month Break Clause in it, so I could leave by just giving a months notice. It turned out I did need to break the 12-month contract.

That was Wyse, who were very good, only did a "check" on the place once, informing me by letter 14 days in advance. They refunded the deposit fully.

So if ever in this situation, and on a twelve month contract, get them to put in a break clause, because basically, the landlord has one 28 day clause for himself. It's not going to help now, but it should help in future as the landlords know full well that students will be gone for the summer. Just ask up front, same with the advance notice of a check on the aprtment or house.

Victor

I'm not sure if the courts will necessarily help, the women (I assume they are all over 18) knew what the were getting into - I suspect the only option would be to sub-let for the rest of the summer.

neuro-praxis

Leases are usually designed to protect the landlord (they are the ones who initiate them after all). If your daughter and her friends had no intentions of staying for 12 months, then why did they sign the lease? A lease is a legally binding contract. They signed stating that they would be staying for twelve months. They are the ones that are wavering on the agreement, not the landlord. Students can arrange to sign nine month leases with landlords who are willing to do that.

I think the landlord is in the right here. Your daughter and her friends are breaking a contract.

I have lived in three different places since leaving home (I am now 20), and I have gone out of my way to avoid leases so that this wouldn't happen. If you want freedom, don't sign a lease. If you want stability, sign it. I don't think your daugher and her friends had honest intentions when they signed that lease, and now it's coming back to bite them in the bum.

It's as simple as that.

vibe666

I'm in a similar situation myself.

We (me & g/f) moved into an apartment last year (May) and all we were asked to sign was a single sheet of A4 to say we were taking the apartment. I then gave the deposit of 1250 to the management co. and they gave us a receipt of payment of this on their headed paper.

We were told it would be for a year, but no paperwork was given to us to inform us of this.

We asked for a contract on several occasions after moving in, but never received one.

We asked the management company at the time if there would be any problems if we needed to move out early (because of having to move for work reasons) and we were told that 'it shouldn't be a problem, as long as it's not before xmas'. Fair enough, so we lived there happily until my g/f had to move because of work. we let them know we would like to move out and arranged a date at the end of Feb to do it, letting them know before xmas (doesn't count as moving out before xmas tho does it!).

It was at this time that they explained that the contract stated that the was no get out clause and that we may be liable for the remainder of the rent until the contract ended if we moved out early. We asked for a copy of the contract (again) and lo and behold, when it turned up, the single sheet of A4 that we signed was attached to the back of the contract, as signatures to say we had read and accepted the contract terms (which we had not, obviously).

After this a verbal (and email) agreement was reached involving us, the landlord and management co. that if we left it until the end of Feb before moving out to give them adequite notice that we would have our full deposit returned at that time, and I have email correspondence from the management co. to back this up.

The time came for us to go and the apartment was inspected by the management co. and it was agreed that it was infact in better condition than when we moved in. They then explained that the landlord held the deposit and that they would contact him in regard to returning the deposit, even taking our new address so they could forward it on to us when they received it from him.

At this time however the landlord's father had died (leaving him a small fortune I might add) so we didn't push to get the deposit back initially, to give him time to deal with his loss.

I then received a phone call from the landlord a couple of weeks later stating that he would not be returning the deposit because they had not found anyone to rent the property, siting his right to claim rent for the remainder of the duration of the contract and that because he was a 'reasonable man' that he would accept the deposit as a final payment.

Needless to say we are awaiting a reply from the small claims court for the return of the deposit as agreed, and are looking forward to stuffing this guy right up for being such a two faced pr*ck.

We've stated in the claim that we hold the management co. equally responsible for fraudulently attaching signatures to a contract and also because we paid the deposit to them, not the landlord (still got the receipt) and they had also agreed that the deposit would be returned, and when it wasn't they did bugger all to get it back for us, telliing us we'd have to deal with him about it.

So anyway, you might say we shouldn't have signed anything with no details on it, but we are dealing with one of the biggest estate agents in Ireland, and you'd expect them to do everything above board, rather than getting you to sign something innocent looking and then breaking the law by attaching those signatures to a contract afterwards (did you see Changing Lanes?).

Anyway, time will tell.

Victor

Originally posted by vibe666
It was at this time that they explained that the contract stated that the was no get out clause and that we may be liable for the remainder of the rent until the contract ended if we moved out early. We asked for a copy of the contract (again) and lo and behold, when it turned up, the single sheet of A4 that we signed was attached to the back of the contract, as signatures to say we had read and accepted the contract terms (which we had not, obviously).

This amounts to fraud, have you spoken to a solicitor?

Originally posted by vibe666
So anyway, you might say we shouldn't have signed anything with no details on it, but we are dealing with one of the biggest estate agents in Ireland, and you'd expect them to do everything above board, rather than getting you to sign something innocent looking and then breaking the law by attaching those signatures to a contract afterwards (did you see Changing Lanes?).

Can you PM me who the agent is?

vibe666

We've spoken to a solicitor, but at the moment we're taking it through the small claims court to keep things simple, but we might have to take it further if we have no luck. I'm hoping that once the small claims people know what the agents did, they will side with us and force either the agents of landlord to pay up.

Spooge

My advice would be to contact Threshold - www.threshold.ie, who can give advice on defaults. If there's nothing in the lease about termination by the lesees, it could be that there is a default period, although IANAL.

If all else fails, physically move out. The worst that can happen, failing a penalty clause in the lease agreement, is that you do pay the remaining rent. Assuming he does force you to pay the rest of the rent, he has to give you your deposit.

As with any dispute, check if the landlord is registered for tax, and is compliant with the full letter of the law. If not, well, there are several options to go with from there.

neuro-praxis

Vibe666, methinks that your case is somewhat different to TomF's...you were actually screwed over, while I think that TomF's daughter and her friends are the ones in the wrong.

Vibe666 I'd advise you not to sign a lease like that again though! Leases are no joke...my "signing of the lease" session for my current home went on for almost an hour - me and my housemates wanted to be exactly sure of what we were getting ourselves in for.

vibe666

indeedy.

it wasn't a contract we signed though.

all she said was that she'd need our signatures before we moved in, and didn't mention that these would then be attached to the contract afterwards.

we were so keen to move in, we didn't care at the time.

we were staying in a hotel and it was expensive, and we just wanted to have a home.

point taken though. It was an entirely different story when we moved into our new place. The guy showed us through the contract, pointing out the important bits as he went, and asked us if it was all OK, if we needed more time to look it over etc. and then gave us a bound copy straight afterwards. very professional.