Im not happy about the way the For Sale Board is being moderated....!

The Muppet

Was That A BAA I Heard.



Vexorg I am surprised that you cannot see the flaws in the new rule but as you have asked I will point out the obvious ones to you.

Apart for the flaw which we have debated here what is stopping me from falsely reporting another user for off thread dealing. If You apply the new rules as you state that is an automatic ban for the innocent accused user. Is That Fair?

By your own admission The mods have no way of checking if pm or e mails are being sent on the forum so you are dependant on the culprits publicly admitting their breaking of board rules.

If You check the for sale forum I have demonstrated how the rule is uninforceable. Did I make the sale made using a different medium or was it off thread dealing ? You tell me if you can.

Finally Vexorg as you now accept that the ban was unfair I presume you will do the honourable thing and revoke the ban and put this thread to bed.

Thank You

The Muppet

DeVore

cute flav, so anyone who agrees with someone you are arguing with is referred to in this way?

Thats some freedom of speech you are advocating all the same now innit...

I dont see anyone's freedom of speech being curtailed here actually, not one person has been banned in this thread for arguing with us about how we run this site. we're not being heavy handed about it are we? We're discussing it like rational adults who have a difference of opinion. (bar the odd, and unnecessary flamebait and insult).

Flav, you've been here for a long time man, are you honestly saying you think we repress peoples freedoms here? I like the way Merc Tilt put it here (Merc was a bit of a rebel here at first... in fact most of the Mods were come to think of it!)

I came to boards via CS. A guy I am friends with OL was trying out a new cheat. The one that turned you into a helicopter. Not really a cheat you would have to agree. More of a piss take. Its not like you can get away by running around turning into a helicopter and getting kills now really..is it. But on that server.. bayridge.. a number of people ran off mouthing about reporting it on Boardsie.. and I so I came here in defence of my mates antics.. not believing the hubbub it caused.

When I was here I could not believe the attitude of two certain individuals. One Mr Devore and One Mr Shinji. And I knew their ways. I really did. I saw through their duplicity of words and “convictions”. In fairness to Mr Devore he became settled with me and my ways when he more or less posted one day “ look I own this joint to a degree.. Ill be as fair as I can but fuk it.. If I want to bend the rules for a mate I will.. Stay or go..Your choice”. Now that wasn’t to me. Twas some kick off on the for sale board. But it made me happy. I like rules. Lets you know where you stand. Even if you are standing neck deep in ****. I liked the fact that he wasn’t deluding himself as I thought by being all fair and righteous. He was willing to admit it to himself. He was willing to admit it to everyone. Almost a new rule.

Now I don’t really know if that bit will make sense to anyone. It’s known in the North as “Big Boys Rules”. But its rules. And having lived there and lived and ate on the north for neigh on 15 years I know it inside out. The only real thing I hated about the place was the inconsistency on both sides. How one side could cry murder one day and then the next bleat about a hero killed in duty. How they would never just come out and say.. “this is how it is.. deal with it”.

Look, I used to get really mentally tied up in all this... now I have just realised the truth. There is no way I can make everyone happy. So I am going to give myself a head start and make sure that at least *I'm* happy with the way things run around here. And by and large I am. And by and large others are too. Its not an easy job drawing the line and policing it. Noone likes cops.

I wrote my honest feelings about what we are trying to do here in an article.

We're coming up to the millionth post, we're busting all records for activity. We're clearly doing something right. Flav is right about one thing: the internet will route around blockages... if people left here in droves we'd have to think twice about what we are doing (and why!). Equally if they are flocking here in droves we should reaffirm what we are doing and why.

DeV.

DeVore

Originally posted by The Muppet

Finally Vexorg as you now accept that the ban was unfair I presume you will do the honourable thing and revoke the ban and put this thread to bed.

Thank You

The Muppet

Tell you what... while Vexorg cant check PMs... I can.

I've done it only once before when someone was threatened with Rape. But to end this debacle I'll tell you what I'll do..

You give me permission to read your PM's and if what you say is true, that you werent dealing underhandedly and that the other fella (which username??) was just helping you out then I'll not only reinstate him but I'll force a rules change on the For Sale board regarding PMs.

It takes time and effort to check PM's (we dont have an interface for it so it means access a database of millions of records). I'll pull out only the ones between you and whoever the other user was to preserve your privacy and check them myself.

I'll await your permission here on this thread before doing so.
That way, you're name will cleared and you can both be unbanned.

How about it? Why dont we end this argument?

DeV.

flav0rflav

My opinion (ignoring some messing) is that bad sellers, bad deals, bad prices, bad people, bad comments, bad mods etc will be found out and ignored through open information flow. That's what the internet and these boards, as a part of that, do.

But that's just my naive opinion. I'm quite happy to know the rules and accept punishment if I choose to break them. And quite happy for you guys to run it as you see fit. As you say, it's done the business till now.

Vexorg

Humm..

Im not totally happy with this.. but the offer is out there now and ill go with your final decision DeVore..


Vex.

DeVore

We're all human Flav... we'll do our level best to keep as many of you on board as possible!

DeV.

The Ritz

flav,

Good manners prevents me from responding to your insult. (W*nker....)


Muppet,

A well deserved name, methinks. If you're so unhappy, why don't you feck off somewhere else..... one less muppet would be a good thing.

ecksor

Originally posted by The Muppet
By your own admission The mods have no way of checking if pm or e mails are being sent on the forum so you are dependant on the culprits publicly admitting their breaking of board rules.

The mods don't, and there isn't a convenient admin interface, but if we really need to determine that someone sent someone else a PM, I can find out for sure and will clarify for Vexorg or any other admin if necessary.

Mercury_Tilt

This post has been deleted.

flav0rflav

Originally posted by The Ritz
flav,
Good manners prevents me from responding to your insult. (W*nker....)

Huh? Moi?

I merely voiced my appreciation for the work you put in lubricating and cleaning the glass portals on DeV's internet veh-hic-le.

tomnoc

I did not want to get involved with this thread but As my post was the one which started it I feel I should have my say.

I unknowingly breached the rules as I had not read the new ones and so deserved my ban. While I see the problems with this particular rule I accept it and the mods right to implement it.

I would not be happy about a third party reading my Private messages . That is not that I have anything to hide but more out of respect for my privacy.

My ban has been unconditionally lifted and as far as I am concerned that ends my involvement in this thread.

Regards
Tom

DeVore

fair 'nuff tomnoc.

However I'm now not happy that some mud has been slung at our mods and admins as being powercrazed etc.

The Muppet made a point at the start that the PM sent was helpful and that he was complaining that the mod smacked an innocent helper... are you contradicting that now? Or am I reading you wrong...


DeV.

DeVore

Originally posted by The Muppet
Thank You Tomnoc
Thanks for the pm regarding the correct type of ram to use in my G4.

Its A pity that you were banned for trying to be be helpful to me.

Is Every one who sends a pm to a user here going to be banned and if so why have the feature enabled at all.

All seems very childish to me seems like the mod has Power overload?.

I'd expect either :

a. The Muppet sticks by his story and puts it up to Vexorg that he jumped the gun. I can arbitrate that.

b. Apologises for the tone and snideness of his post and admits that he broke a rule and was treated as fairly as everyone else is.

DeV.

Vexorg

Dev...

Just to clarify... it was tomnoc who was banned from the Muppets for sale thread.... for posting he sent a pm

Its is The Muppet who has been complaining and baiting that poor innocent mod Vexorg, he has not broken any rules that I am aware of.


V.

DeVore

Yup, I'm aware of that.

I'm not making any comment about tomnoc, he hasnt entered into this todate and his explanation here is fair and accepted.

I'm just asking The Muppet what the position is regarding his comments here and in the For Sale board re: you're moderatorship and the PM.


As he pointed out he's entitled to hold an opinion... but I'm entitled to ask questions too...



Consider it... um... "play".



DeV.

The Muppet

As common sense has prevailed this is my last post in this thread.

To Vexorg please do not take my posts personally without going over old ground again it is the rule itself that initally annoyed me. I think the net should be free from rules as far a possible and that we could survive without that particular one. That said I dont mod a forum and so am not really aware of the workload and commitment involved.

If I gave the impression that I was attacking you personally that was never my intention . We both went overboard with some of our posts. .

To The other mods here I had no part in moving this thread here.
I thinks it should have been left where it started and the users on that forum could have debated the point without affecting everyone else.

Devore
Situation is resolved
Private messages should remain private.
The " Play" is over as far as I am concerned

Bye

Keeks

:rolleyes:

All that 4 nothing!

DeVore

Oh no... not for nothing. Not for nothing at all.

/me waves buh bye to The Muppet.... and folds his arms.


DeV.

flav0rflav

Crap. I thought I was going to at least get costs when the tribunal opened.

Vexorg

please this is a serious thread... I think some people derived an obscene pleasure from taking part in it..


If you enjoyed this thread and would like to see more like it, please send your donation to Vexorg's Pleasure Dome c/o boards.ie.


Thanks you.


Vex

The Muppet

Vexorg
That is exactly the reason I stopped.
While it started out to be a serious thread , for me that ceased quite a few pages ago.

Life in a stuffy studio can be pretty boring at times.
No Hard Feelings.

The Muppet

DeVore

The DeVore Coke and Hookers Foundation always accepts any and all donations of cash.

DeV.

amp

/me checks pockets for donation

Damn, no cash. Would accept large amounts of pr0n instead?

ecksor

I have been known to accept vast quantities of chocolate, although I'm trying to cut down on that. 1u or 2u servers are gratefully received. Really nerdy books especially welcome. All c/o "ecksor loves you foundation, boards HQ"

GuanYin

...and the world of boards was at peace again, and the all lived happily ever after.........


...until next time!

ZENER

And The Winner Is ???????


Me Thinks A Nice relaxing Lie Down in a Dark Room would be the order of the day for poor Vex .

Collection in Progress.


Until The Next Time . Soon I Hope

Eh OH!

dogs

I haven't used the For Sale board much, only ever bought a few bits and pieces from it, but the changes to the rules about off-thread dealing make a big difference.

I find threads are better and sales seem much fairer and when details about items are discussed its available for everyone to see.

Also, Vexorg is teh w1n.

jabaroon

When I threw my few cents into the debate it amounted to one of those times when I should have counted to the proverbial 10. I was angry and on the war path.

Although I do feel that I was attempting to help and correct an occurrance of banning that was out of proportion, my haste led me to overstate.

Having posted and read a number of the replies, I realised my haste and that I should really have taken more time to research and understand before putting my money's worth into the equation. As a result, I decided not to reply, but to sit back, read and understand.

I have done this now. The following is what I would like to say:

- Vexorg: I was too harsh and inacurate (in another thread) with my comments. Yes you have a tough job and yes you do it well. You have to deal with a lot of crap and recently I have contributed significantly to that! Whereas my comments may have seemed condescending, this was merely a symptom of my frustration. I was wrong and apologise. However, I would still like to suggest that there may be some room for improvement (more later!). Suffice to say -- apologies for any of my harsh words.

- All: I had originally planned on responding to a number of individuals who replied either directly to my posts or argued various points. However, I'm not sure if there is enough storage space on the server! Suffice to say, it has been a good debate --barring those few trollers (I learned a new word!).

I do understand the 'tough love' approach to mod'ing the boards. I understand it better now that I did originally. However, I'm still confused. Why not send a notification when a person is temp banned? Here's a revised version of what I originally suggested:

"You have been temporairly banned from the XX board for failing to read the rules. Specifically, you ............. You have been banned for X days. Please do not reply to this message in an attempt to have the ban lifted before it is due to be lifted. We do not read such replies.

We apologise at the necessity to enforce such a strict policy of temp banning. This has been done through ......etc....history of processes attempted before........"

The above could even be worded stronger if necessarry, and all vex would have to do is keep a small spreadsheet with names and dates. Each morning, do a quick check to see who is up for an un-ban etc....

Even the text above could be a cut&paste. By the sounds of it, the majority of bans are for the same small number of reasons. A copy of each version (with the appropriate reason) could be kept and easily pasted into a PM to the banned user.

I would have thought that this approach would lead to a better understanding as to the reason for the ban and cut down on "why have I been banned" messages. Equally, it would cut down on the "please can you un-ban me" messages. The key would be a policy of clearly explaining the why, then when and the history of the the decisions made regarding ban's. Users have given all of the information that they need regarding the ban, they have no reason to contact the Mods to complain and as such, when the do, the can either be ignored or sent a generic reply indicating that debates are not entered into.

I joined this thread with the intention of helping to make a change for the better. I deviated along the way! I am now back on track. If I am still missing the point, please help me to understand.

Cheers,
Jab

PS - Dont flame me if you disagree, propose an alternative. I am making suggestions. Knock them if you will, but do so in the context of proposing an alternative. "JD", please dont bother with any additional comments about my language skills or my job. Start a new thread called "Jabaroon's English". That way you can say your piece and the rest of us who are making contributions can avoid reading your comments.

Blade

Wow what a thread! I'm only after seeing it tonight and muppets gone already!?

However, I'm still confused. Why not send a notification when a person is temp banned?

and all vex would have to do is keep a small spreadsheet with names and dates. Each morning, do a quick check to see who is up for an un-ban etc....

I don't see what your confused about, it's been made perfectly clear that the main aim is to cut down the workload for the mods. I for one am seriously happy that theres been a lot less work involved since all these new rules and methods of modding have come into place.

Why should we bother sending a private notification giving explanations to someone who comes to our boards and breaks our rules? We tried that approach already before you came here and all we got was abuse and dragged into lengthy arguments like this ridiculous (but at the same time very humorous) one. I don't see why we should waste any of our time for these people and I don't see why Vexorg should have to keep a spreadsheet so as that these people can get their bans lifted on time. We don't have an automated system that allows us to ban people for a set amount of time, so until we do they're just going to have to strain themselves to send us a reminder.

The way it's being done now is fine, if someone breaks a rule they are told off on the thread itself and if a mod feels someone deserves a ban then they'll also be notified of it on the thread. If it's a temporary ban they'll be told how long for and then it's up to them to remind whoever banned them when the time is up. All out in the open like the sales themselves, that's how we like it.

The Muppet

This thread seems to just rumble on. I accept that Vexorgs position was difficult and that my contributions to this thread did not make it any easier. I agree that modding is a tough job and in general he does it well. That said I too would also like to suggest that there may be some room for improvement. If I had received a less confrontational reply to my initial comment I think this matter could have been resolved in a civil manner at that time.

Suffice to say, it has been a good debate --barring those few trollers (I learned a new word!).

If this reference to trolling is directed at me I want to refute that allegation. After reading my last two posts I can understand how you could come to that conclusion so
I would like to clarify these posts. As I have stated this Thread started out as a serious complaint but about halfway through it became clear to me that I was arguing with the actual owners of the board and I felt I was fighting a battle that I could not win. After The Ecksor Post it appeared other contributors were having fun at my expense .If you have read the thread on this forum about hacked e-mail which is a much more serious topic that this one you will see the same type of response from the same users. The poster there decided to walk away. Here I decided to play the game and the change in my approach is evident from that point.

Just before my second last post I was made aware from the posts here and two other contacts that this thread was having a detrimental effect on Vexorg. My initial complaints had been sorted and the error rectified and so I decided to put an end to my participation in this thread as the upset caused outweighed any benefit of continuing the debate.

At no stage did I troll i.e. post anything with the sole intention of annoying anyone.
I stand over my initial posts and thoughts on the rule and I think I have demonstrated my points.

Some may think the reason I did not take Devore up on his offer of mediation was because I was in the wrong from the start. That is not the case I stand over my initial post. There was no Off Thread Dealing. I did not want to give permission to access to my Private Messages because that goes against my thoughts on privacy and I did not want to put a lot of needless work on the admin staff just to win an argument which in my opinion I had already won . However I want to bring closure to this thread so if the mods will not accept my word on this point and if it helps and the other parties involved agree I may be willing to reconsider my position on this matter.

The Muppet

Blade as You Can See I have not gone away.
Flavoflav you may just get those Costs Yet