Im not happy about the way the For Sale Board is being moderated....!

jabaroon

Muppet, the Trolling remarks were not directed at you.

jabaroon

I feel like I am labouring a point, so this will be my last post on this matter unless my thoughts are met with greater acceptance. If they are not then I am definatley missing the point and will grow old in ignorance!

I am not trying to drag out the thread. I am not trying to increase the mod's workload (quite the opposite in fact). I am trying to decrease the incedence of "I was banned from classifieds" posts in the admin forum -- AND -- as a spin off bonus, reduce user frustration.

Why am I bothered? Simply because I was at the recieving end. My ban was justified (but I did not understand that at the time), I over reacted, Things were said, Threads were started, and ultimatley the situation was rectified. A significant amount of effort was required by both myself and Vex (and others in this thread) to ultimatley reach an understanding and resolve the issue.

We could argue for a long time and on many points with regard to why it took so long and so many exchanges to resolve -- but that is avoiding the point. The point is that it happened and realistically is likely to happen again.

Here's what I see is involved in the current banning approach:
- User does something wrong.
- Post is made to thread
- User trys to login and wonders why they cannot.
- Checks their PM's and still no clue
- Eventually figure out why
- Send message to Vex asking why or arguing the point
- Vex replies
~ possibly a debate ensues

What I am proposing is to REDUCE the amount of work required by the mods. A single reusable PM is sent to the user with a brief explanation of the reason for the ban, a warning not to argue over the ban etc...etc...and if necessarry a history of the approach to banning.

When the user logs in, they have everything they need to understand the ban. There is no need for a PM to Vex, no need for Vex to reply. And no need for the user to request an un-ban.

I am no advocating a softer approach to moderating the forum, I am advocating the same tolerance level -- if not a slightly stronger one. The only thing I am advocating is the provision of information regarding bans when the ban is enacted. This is all in the hope that the provision of such information will reduce the level of mod interaction and as a spin-off, a coresponding reduction in the level of initial frustration -- that can often lead to threads like this and comments like my original ones!!

The amount of work involved in creating the 5-10 reusable template PM's to send to users who are recieving a ban pales by comparison to the amount of work involved in responding and debating with users. In fact, I would be more than happy to write up these templates if it would help!

I'm done!
Jab

Blade

Here's what I see is involved in the current banning approach:
- User does something wrong.
- Post is made to thread
- User trys to login and wonders why they cannot.
- Checks their PM's and still no clue
- Eventually figure out why
- Send message to Vex asking why or arguing the point
- Vex replies
~ possibly a debate ensues

You're right here actually. I banned myself to see what would happen, I thought once the user wasn't banned from the Sin Bin that they'd still be able to see it. They can probably still access it but theres no link to it that would stand out at them when they're trying to access the for sale board or any other board they may be banned from. All they get is something telling them their account may have been cancelled by an admin etc.

What I propose if at all possible is that when someone tries to access a board that they are banned from under 'classifieds' that they are diverted directly to the Sin Bin where they will see the thread they offended on. Perhaps the sin bin can be used for bannings from other boards too, or else have a few more sin bins for the different areas if theres too much content.

Any thoughts?

The Muppet

Thanks for clarifying the trolling point I thought considering the way I had ended my participation you may have been of that opinion.

I agree wholeheartedly with your approach and find it very constructive to an issue on the board.

The Brigadier

Originally posted by DeVore
The DeVore Coke and Hookers Foundation always accepts any and all donations of cash.

DeV.

PM SENT!!!

RicardoSmith

Originally posted by Vexorg
The workload has reduced dramatically since we started enforcing the rules with temp bans from classified and making those banned come ask why..... as opposed to asking them not to break the rules again, editing posts and getting into long drawn out pm argurments over power hungry mods to you suk and so on...

As I've said before I'm surprised since I would have thought it would have created more work. But if it works then it works, and the obvious solution isn't always the right one. The mods obviously know if its working for them and really thats all that matters. As for the new rules I can put up with them if it reduces the muppetery that was going on before. So far it seems to have done exactly that. So fair play to Vexorg (and others) for the work hes/the've put into it so far. I thnk they been dealing with all the bans and suspensions in a fair and even handed way.

sceptre

Originally posted by Vexorg
please this is a serious thread... I think some people derived an obscene pleasure from taking part in it..

Ah, now I know my post looks like that. Seriously, it was just meant to be informative.

ColinM

Originally posted by The Muppet
Some may think the reason I did not take Devore up on his offer of mediation was because I was in the wrong from the start. That is not the case I stand over my initial post. There was no Off Thread Dealing. I did not want to give permission to access to my Private Messages because that goes against my thoughts on privacy and I did not want to put a lot of needless work on the admin staff just to win an argument which in my opinion I had already won .

Bullpants! Devore called your bluff and you know it!!

Come on, let's see that PM. Don't try to pretend you won't let us see it because of some moral stance on the right to privacy.

Not seeing this PM would be like switching off Miss Marple just before she sits everyone down to tell them exactly who dunnit and why!

(PS - congratulations to everyone who took part in the production of this thread so far. It's been exciting and hilarious. It's been a little poignant at times too...)

Keeks

Originally posted by RicardoSmith
As I've said before I'm surprised since I would have thought it would have created more work. But if it works then it works, and the obvious solution isn't always the right one. The mods obviously know if its working for them and really thats all that matters. As for the new rules I can put up with them if it reduces the muppetery that was going on before. So far it seems to have done exactly that. So fair play to Vexorg (and others) for the work hes/the've put into it so far. I thnk they been dealing with all the bans and suspensions in a fair and even handed way.

You can be surprised all u want becasue it sure does work. Reaason being is threads like this. Every so often we get a large number of newbies arriving on boards together. Rahter than spelling out every mistake indivdually to each one when they make a mistake, we take the 'tough love' approach.

The result is a thread like this were we rattle off the same old argument we've had b4 about how unfair everything is. I know it by heart now.

A thread like this send more signals to OTHER wouldbe offenders than a single PM or message could ever achieve.

And there by reduing the workload.

RicardoSmith

Originally posted by Keeks
You can be surprised all u want becasue it sure does work. Reaason being is threads like this. Every so often we get a large number of newbies arriving on boards together. Rahter than spelling out every mistake indivdually to each one when they make a mistake, we take the 'tough love' approach.

The result is a thread like this were we rattle off the same old argument we've had b4 about how unfair everything is. I know it by heart now.

A thread like this send more signals to OTHER wouldbe offenders than a single PM or message could ever achieve.

And there by reduing the workload.

...ever have the feeling of deja vu?

The Muppet

Bullpants! Devore called your bluff and you know it!!
Come on, let's see that PM. Don't try to pretend you won't let us see it because of some moral stance on the right to privacy.

If you read my post properly you would have understood that I am prepared to do just as you ask. I tell you what for the just to prove you wrong I am prepared to let dev see The PM.

Who,s calling whos Bluff now?

ColinM

Originally posted by The Muppet
If you read my post properly you would have understood that I am prepared to do just as you ask. I tell you what for the just to prove you wrong I am prepared to let dev see The PM.

Who,s calling whos Bluff now?

Dunno. Just post the "helpful PM" here.

DeVore

Originally posted by The Muppet
If you read my post properly you would have understood that I am prepared to do just as you ask. I tell you what for the just to prove you wrong I am prepared to let dev see The PM.

Who,s calling whos Bluff now?

I'll take this as an authorisation to access your PM's then.

DeV.

flav0rflav

What is it that makes single quote characters turn into commas?

(And don't say beer)

WhiteWashMan

/me wanders of to read the sales charter.

i have to admit, but i am getting the idea that there is something about someone putting an item up for sale and then dealing with it through PMs, or off boards or something.
I would have something to say about that, but i would also like to know what the rules are first.
surely the great capitalist way of life is at risk if this is so?
anyway, nothing constructive, just thought id tell everyone that i am going to read the charter

Vexorg

Read it and weep as they say!....


Boards.ie must crush the capitalist dogs, it shall be written in the new Boards.ie World Domination Constitutation...

In this new World, if you could vote you would vote for DeVore for he is a Benevolant Dictator.... but if you break the For Sale rules you will be banished from this sweet sweet land of milk and hunney.


V.

All hail the Hive ... Hail!

The Brigadier

I'm happy friend...

Can I have some more Bouncy Bubble Beverage please?

WhiteWashMan

Originally posted by Vexorg
Read it and weep as they say!....


Boards.ie must crush the capitalist dogs, it shall be written in the new Boards.ie World Domination Constitutation...

In this new World, if you could vote you would vote for DeVore for he is a Benevolant Dictator.... but if you break the For Sale rules you will be banished from this sweet sweet land of milk and hunney.


V.

All hail the Hive ... Hail!

i'll see you burn in hell first Gerry!

In Hell!

by the way, can you provide me with a link to this Charter of world domination.
I like the cut of your gib, i'd like to subscribe to your newsletter

oh, i was going to look at that for sale charter wasnt i!
(i got distracted by x-box!)

The Muppet

Devour

Before I give permission to access my pms can I claify that you will keep your end of the deal.

I.E. If you find no evidence of off thread dealing you will revoke the rule regarding pms in the for sale forum.

If Yor are agreeable to this i will not only give you permission to
check my pms but I will give you permission to post it here.
Be advised that I have independent proof of the message not that i dont trust you .

I await your reply

DeVore

Also, can you confirm that I can load the backed-up database from the night that you and this person exchanged PM's?

That will ensure that there has been no retroactive editing of PM's since then.

This isnt about who's putting what up to who. Its a perfectly good way for The Muppet to clear his name if he so desires.

DeV.

The Muppet

Devore

you are wasting your time there was no Off Thread dealing between tomnoc and myself . I dont know how long it takes to do what you say but if its a long time as you suggested in the origional post I wouldnt bother if I were you.

You have not said that you will keep you end of the deal yet as soon as you claify this point i you can acces my pms .

Thorbar

Feck sake would you end this already and let Dev look at the pm, this thread is starting to remind me of Temptation Island.



...




Not that I ever watched Temptation Island just someone told me about it alright.

The Muppet

I will if he keeps to his promise to revoke the ban om pms in the for sale forum as he said in the original thread.

The ball is in Devores court.

DeVore

I looked into the PMs and found none from you to tomnoc and none from tomnoc to you.

Now, since noone (including you nor tomnoc) has ever claimed that a PM wasnt sent. its reasonable to assume whatever was there has been deleted.

I'll need to d'l and reload the database from that evening. Thats a solid 14 hours work believe it or not as we have to reload the entire database into our test rig. But I'll do it.

While searching for tomnoc's PM to you I couldnt help noticing other PM subjects which were clearly offers off list via PM's so my feeling is that the subject is already moot.

I will persist if you so desire but now I need tomnoc's approval to search through HIS pm's.


I'll say this: I'm opposed to the no PM's rule myself. I'd MUCH rather that the site supported something more along the ebay route which I'm looking into currently. I wouldnt remove the PM ban immediately either way but I am working towards something that is more controlled then the current way we do things.

DeV.

The Muppet

Devour

Can I take it that you are confirming that there is no evidence of off thread dealing regarding the post which started this thread.

The Muppet

Tell you what... while Vexorg cant check PMs... I can.

. But to end this debacle I'll tell you what I'll do..

You give me permission to read your PM's and if what you say is true, that you werent dealing underhandedly and that the other fella (which username??) was just helping you out then I'll not only reinstate him but I'll force a rules change on the For Sale board regarding PMs.

I'll pull out only the ones between you and whoever the other user was to preserve your privacy and check them myself.

I can only give you permission to access my pms .
Please remember to adhere to the assurances given .

DeVore

I will... I didnt give a timeframe but I will keep to my end of the bargain. However the PM has been deleted. You havent explained that part yet.

DeV.

DeVore

Originally posted by The Muppet
Devour

Can I take it that you are confirming that there is no evidence of off thread dealing regarding the post which started this thread.

No you cant. You deleted the pm. There is no pm there from Tomnoc despite Tomnoc confirming that he sent you one.

Tell you what, why dont I lean on Tomnoc for a while and lets see what he has to say about this because your tone is sending me from impartial arbitrator over to the "combatant" side of things.

Like I said, I saw enough off-board trading going on in the headers of the pms to satisfy my conscience that you arent all you seem.

DeV.

ZENER

For the past 2 weeks I have followed this thread rather than watch Big Brother on the telly !!!

Fascinating I thought ! I was thinking of writing to Hollywood to suggest a movie release in time for Christmas.

The evidence was buried deep in the bowls of the super computer that would aquit the accused and exonerate him/her of the crime and all would live happily ever after . . . but in true Hollywood style the evidence now does not exist and there is now the possibility of ... wait for it .... PM To ..... (;-)) the sequal !

Muppet we could have made a series of this had you not conceded to the request to read the PM.

I think tomnoc should reappear in a future episode to plead the case for the defense but deny permission to read the PM then the story could continue on ad-infinitum !

The Muppet

Devour I Do not mean to be confrontational with you. I always post in a direct manner.

However the PM has been deleted. You havent explained that part yet.

The impression I got from your post with the offer of mediation was that you had backups of all pms sent and so it was unnecessary for it to be still on my account. As You have seen From My Inbox I always delete pms after I read them. That’s why there are none there.

Out Of Interest did this off thread dealing you talk of in message headers occur before or after the rule change on the for sale forum . Something does not ring true to me with this.