A funny thing happened me on the way to work...

denis

Dart nazis got me today. As the nice young man behind the counter scratched his arse and gazed fixedly in front of him at a queue of 5 people, and the dart pulled up outside, I trotted through and hopped on the train. Exact fare in hand, a smile on my face, and a feeling that, really, all was well with the world. "Tickets please". Well, I waited for him to come around to my area, and said "I'll take a 2.70 return to Grand Canal Dock, please. And one for yourself." I explained that I'd just boarded the train. I even smiled, because that's the kind of guy I am. I could have lied, and said I'd gotten on at a previous station, and there was no one there to buy a ticket from. I didn't. My compulsive honesty (and, to a large extent, but less obviously, my dashing good looks) seemed to annoy him.

Sitting down, he asked me my name. Curious, and a little angry, I asked why he needed it. He told me he was going to charge me the "minimum fare". Cheered up, I said "Okay, I'll take 2.70 to GCD, please" (I thought he must have been a little hard of hearing). But no! Much to my surprise, he refused to take the €2 coin, the 50c and the 20c from my hand, and informed me that the price was actually 25 euro. Ten times the normal fare. How they can call this "minimum" and get away with it, I have no idea. He didn't seem to have much of a clue when I asked him, either.

So, like any red-blooded, law-abiding, fare-paying member of our society I refused. I never skip fares. I actually DO pay at destination on those days when you get to the dart station and no one has shown up to take your money, grunt, and fling a ticket in your general direction. I always get a ticket all the way to my destination, because I don't think it's worth the bother to save 40 cent on a journey. That said, I angrily squeaked: "I'm not giving you my name! Not a chance!".

With this, our little exchange ended. My new ginger friend stood up and threatened to call the Gardai. More than that, actually rang ahead to talk to someone about calling the Gardai. He could have been pretending, I suppose, but it would have been embarrassing if he wasn't. Well, I'm not ashamed to say, I bottled it. "Alright, " I said, "I'll give you my name". I think I would have held out longer if I was in a war or something, you know. I'm not that much of a pussy. Either way, he took out a small pad, and I gave him my name. And a false address. Hee hee.

Then, he asked for ID. I explained that I had none with my address on. He threatened to call the Gardai again (I mean, Christ, what a waste of police time would THAT be? Honestly...), but, in fairness to me, I was telling the truth. So he took the number of my banklink card, for reasons unknown. It must be, in case I don't actually pay the fine, so they can prosecute me. All of which leads me to the problem - I should have given my real address, or a false name. The mixing and matching was never going to work, really. Looks like coming to work this morning is going to cost me 25 quid, either way. Although, I might be working it off in a prison basement somewhere, breaking rocks, and keeping a firm grip on the soap in the shower.

Sposs

Tell them to **** off,go into connolly and ask to speak with a manager,explained the situation,tell them what happened,tell them its there fault there was no one at your end.Trust me the fact you make that effort to complain they will know your not just another scumbag trying to sneak on.Make sure you have exact times and all so that they can check up with the station to see if there was anyone on that morning.
Its worth it if it saves you €25

denis

Yeah, I was talking to a few people on the phone today, less about the fine and more about the soap opera the chap tried to make of the whole situation. He was on a serious power trip, and nothing annoys me more than that. You get it a lot, for some reason, with Iarnrod Eireann people and bus drivers. I don't know why... One of the more embarrassing moments of recent times to be treated, loudly, like a criminal in front of 35-odd strangers.

jammy_dodger

So he took the number of my banklink card, for reasons unknown

The guards can get your real address off the bank.

denis

Originally posted by jammy_dodger
The guards can get your real address off the bank.

and I wrote...

So he took the number of my banklink card, for reasons unknown. It must be, in case I don't actually pay the fine, so they can prosecute me.

But anyway, in order to make a proper complaint, I decided to give them my real address anyway. I said I didn't want to broadcast it on the train, as literally everyone had been watching us by that stage. He'd stormed up the carriage, forcing me to follow him.

I don't mind the fine really, letter of the law and all that, but I'm sick of being treated like sh.it by these people - I'm a customer using a service, and these are front-line employees. They should have a shred of customer service training, surely. The most you get is a grunt and your change thrown in your general direction. And that's without the threats to have you arrested...

Capt'n Midnight

Dublin Bus have a standard fare which you have to pay, unless you have a valid ticket.

So it looks like the standard fare on the DART is €25 unless you have bought a discounted ticket. So legally you don't have a leg to stand on. (Sorry to be the bearer of bad news etc.)

The flip side of this is when (Hines?) took over Dublin Bus he hopped on a bus - the driver did not ask him to pay 'cos was afraid of him. There was an inspector at the next stop - it was a setup - the driver was sacked and the unions could do nothing.

Emmo

report your bank card stolen and **** them, say you have never heard of this so called Dart and that you wouldnt be caught dead on public transport since your bankcard got stolen.

Make them prove you where on that Dart, for 25 quid they wouldnt waste the steam of thier piss. When they can just make more "profit" of overpriced fares when its meant to be a state run service? Arghhhhhh

Feckin CIE and bloody Dublin Bus. Half assed, half pint, half rate public transport.

Go to the states, New York, San Fran, Vermont, Boston have all get better public transport than this little twee country.

Emmo

The Sweeper

The problem is that the fact that there was a teller behind the counter when you got there, however vaccuous and starry eyed he may have been. You can usually get away with buying a train ticket when on board in the evenings, when some of the station booths are closed, but middle of the day - probably not.

HOWEVER, there's nothing said you knew about that - I mean, in a helluva lot of other countries, it's perfectly acceptable to buy a ticket for your journey when you're on the train...

Gordon

I feel for you denis. You will get paid back in some way though, one day.

sceptre

The "minimum fare" is to discurage fare-dodging. It's a tenner on the Underground IIRC - it's priced to be higher than any single fare journey for that reason.

Having said that, I'm on your side. Don't they have any ticket buying machines on the Dart at all? Given that it would make sense, I'm going to guess that the answer is no. As MAJD said the fact that there actually was an open ticket office at your station weakens your case but in the absence of ticket machines, eliminating starry eyed tellers, in a moral (as opposed to the rules they do have) sense, you're right imho. If you had just hopped on because you didn't have change for a ticket machine (if they had one) I'd probably be on the other side tbh.

ferdi

i'd have gone fookin mental, i would have had a child right there in the train. i'm getting pissed off just thinking about it.

dod

Although I've never been put in a situation where I've been charged this minumum fare nonsense, I have found myself in situations where I've got on the DART and paid at the far end. Usually it's because they don't bother to man their stations outside the city centre except when it suits them, i.e. get their commuter fare on the inward journey.

The DART people are a joke. Dublin Bus is a joke. Bus Eireann customer service has, IMO improved immensely in the last three or four years, but is still aeons behind what would be considered acceptable in any first world country.

I think your inspector behaved deplorably. Although I suspect he may have been within his rights to ask for the minimum fare, I would like to know on what grounds he can access your private bank details simply to enforce some ridiculous DART bye-law. I suspect its to intimidate people into thinking they're traceable were they to give false details. What if it were a Saturday and you genuinely hadn't brought your wallet out? I believe he would be treading on very thin ice, and that you would have a case against the Bank under the Data Protection Act were he to check your details against your bank record.

I would do one of two things:
- Ignore the bugger, and contest the fare when they issue you with a fine
- Write a letter pre-emptively to DART and copy it to your local TD outlining the circumstances and the embarrasing situation you were placed in by his behaviour. Tell them you intend to contest it and bring your TD on board to take your side. I would imagine the pen-pushers at DART headquarters would drop an indefensible fine if told to by the Department of Transport?

Wolf

I would have stabed the **** :mad: (jokin)

But seriously try this out. I fthey follow it up tell them you will go to court and contest it. Tell the full story that you wanted to pay on the train. Whenthey say that doesnt matter say well we'll see if a court will convict me. If they want to go ahead with it tell them and well also see if the Irsish times like might to hear about how you would like to bring me to court over this simple misunderstanding due to some pleb on a power trip.

If it really came to that I have a mate in the Irish times that would love that story.

Sarky

I'm in Germany right now, and the public transport is absolutely wonderful. Arriving and leaving on the dot, friendly and competent staff, and several ways to pay (you can buy your train tickets in the station, on the net, or just pay on the train. Every time, without exception) The bus services are excellent as well.

Compare this with the Irish rail system, where everbody is an incompetant boob, the system's crap, and trains can be delayed because the driver feels like taking a break.

I'm never using Irish public transport ever again. With the possible exception of Citylink, out of necessity.

Your situation is purely due to the incompetance of the DART staff.

Epitaph

denis: That's really sh1tty. Make 'em bleed

And Sarky: Germany's rail service is great, but it's not all sweetness and light.

When I was getting a train from Friedrichshafen airport (Ryanair fly there) to the town (only two stops), two or three English lads didn't have tickets but were waiting for the ticket inspector to come round. Which he did. They'd expected to be able to buy a ticket on the train but couldn't, so they had to get off in Friedrichshafen Central with the inspector and were frogmarched off to one of the ticket offices.

These lads were only students, not UJ-tattooed Millwall supporters, BTW. They were mortified.

And only for the fact that I'd been in Amsterdam with friends 6 months before, I'd have been in the same predicament. I wouldn't have had a clue as to how the ticket machines worked. There was no ticket office at the airport station, just a machine (in Deutsch).

Of course, having said that, I'd much prefer Bahn over Iarnroid Eireann. I had to catch 6 trains in total in my three days over there, and you could honestly set your watch by them. The journey planner on Bahn.de's site was spot on.

Imposter

If I'm wrong here i'm sure someone will correct me but you're under no legal obligation to carry any form of ID in Ireland. As a result if you had said I don't have to show you ID (bank card et all) and tell him why what could he have done. At worst he'll call the cops at which point you can explain to them that you tried on 2 occasions to pay the normal fare only to be met by incompetent staff. At least it'd be interesting!

By then you'd probably be off the train and the witnesses that could verify your story would be away, which would also be a good point to bring up.

dmeehan

The journey planner on Bahn.de's site was spot on.

Db and all european rail systems use hafas or somet like that for the online connections etc. I think bus eireann are using it for their network too. god forbid Irish Rail would ever use something as usefull as that.

(well i suppose they dont actually have the timetable/schedule to make it worth while using it. imagine searching for connections from sligo to galway or somet like that:rolleyes: )

Victor

I have little sympathy for you.

I went in to Tesco today and there was a huge queue of lunchtime shoppers. So I left with my roll, fruit and yoghurt with the intention of paying the next day, after all I am a respectable member of society and am indeed a member of their Clubcard scheme (I flashed the card at the cashier nearest the door). For some reason the security guard stopped me and demanded I pay.

Originally posted by denis
Dart nazis got me today. As the nice young man behind the counter scratched his arse and gazed fixedly in front of him at a queue of 5 people, and the dart pulled up outside, I trotted through and hopped on the train.

Why? The Bye-Laws and other notices say you can’t board a train without a ticket.

Originally posted by denis
How they can call this "minimum" and get away with it, I have no idea.

It’s “Standard Fare”, not “Minimum Fare” – minimum fare is when outer suburban buses operate a different fare structure to discourage short trips, to free up space for longer journeys.

Originally posted by denis
That said, I angrily squeaked: "I'm not giving you my name! Not a chance!".

He was perfectly entitled to ask you for your name and address and if he believed either to be false, to get a Garda to do the same. A Garda can arrest you for giving a false name and address OR if he is unable to verify your identity.

Originally posted by denis
I'm not that much of a pussy. Either way, he took out a small pad, and I gave him my name. And a false address. Hee hee.

So you broke the law again.

Originally posted by denis
So he took the number of my banklink card, for reasons unknown. It must be, in case I don't actually pay the fine, so they can prosecute me.

Originally posted by denis
Although, I might be working it off in a prison basement somewhere, breaking rocks, and keeping a firm grip on the soap in the shower.

Unlikely, but you can be fined €500 and / or get 3 months.

Originally posted by Sposs
tell them its there fault there was no one at your end.

Eh, there was.

Originally posted by denis
He was on a serious power trip, and nothing annoys me more than that. You get it a lot, for some reason, with Iarnrod Eireann people and bus drivers.

Because they have to put up with this and worse, day in, day out.

Originally posted by denis
One of the more embarrassing moments of recent times to be treated, loudly, like a criminal in front of 35-odd strangers.

But weren’t you breaking the law.

Originally posted by denis
I don't mind the fine really, letter of the law and all that, but I'm sick of being treated like sh.it by these people - I'm a customer using a service, and these are front-line employees.

No, you were a fare evader, who was trying to evade prosecution.

Originally posted by Emmo
Go to the states, New York, San Fran, Vermont, Boston have all get better public transport than this little twee country.

All have much better population densities than Ireland, making public transport a much more reasonable proposition, especially given they are part of a continental landmass.

Originally posted by sceptre
Don't they have any ticket buying machines on the Dart at all?

Quite a few actually, I can’t vouch for every station (some of the foyers are quite small). You can also buy a ticket up to three weeks in advance. They advise people to buy multi-journey tickets to avoid queues at peak times.

Originally posted by sceptre
If you had just hopped on because you didn't have change for a ticket machine (if they had one) I'd probably be on the other side tbh.

The machines accept notes (and bank cards – 100% not sure).

Originally posted by dod
Although I've never been put in a situation where I've been charged this minumum fare nonsense, I have found myself in situations where I've got on the DART and paid at the far end. Usually it's because they don't bother to man their stations outside the city centre except when it suits them, i.e. get their commuter fare on the inward journey.

Not quite, this is common before 7am and after 10pm in suburban stations.

Originally posted by dod
I think your inspector behaved deplorably. Although I suspect he may have been within his rights to ask for the minimum fare, I would like to know on what grounds he can access your private bank details

He can’t, it isn’t for IE to do this, it’s for the Garda and the courts.

Originally posted by dod
simply to enforce some ridiculous DART bye-law.

It’s not so ridiculous if it makes people pay their fair share.

Originally posted by dod
- Ignore the bugger, and contest the fare when they issue you with a fine

And face the €500 fine …

Originally posted by dod
- Write a letter pre-emptively to DART and copy it to your local TD outlining the circumstances and the embarrasing situation you were placed in by his behaviour. Tell them you intend to contest it and bring your TD on board to take your side. I would imagine the pen-pushers at DART headquarters would drop an indefensible fine if told to by the Department of Transport?

It’s not a fine, it’s a standard fare. Only a court can impose a fine.

Is this what we elect TDs for? This type of muppetism went out the window quite some time ago.

Originally posted by Wolf
If they want to go ahead with it tell them and well also see if the Irsish times like might to hear about how you would like to bring me to court over this simple misunderstanding due to some pleb on a power trip.

And expose Denis as a fare evader? What would the headline be? “FARE EVADER DEMANDS SPECIAL TREATMENT”?

Originally posted by Epitaph
When I was getting a train from Friedrichshafen airport (Ryanair fly there) to the town (only two stops), two or three English lads didn't have tickets but were waiting for the ticket inspector to come round. Which he did. They'd expected to be able to buy a ticket on the train but couldn't, so they had to get off in Friedrichshafen Centralwiththe inspector and were frogmarched off to one of the ticket offices.

I omitted to validate my ticket going to the airport in Dusseldorf. Got quite a stern talking to.

Originally posted by Imposter
At worst he'll call the cops at which point you can explain to them that you tried on 2 occasions to pay the normal fare only to be met by incompetent staff. At least it'd be interesting!

And would probably not be looked on favourably by the judge.

Originally posted by Minesajackdaniels
HOWEVER, there's nothing said you knew about that - I mean, in a helluva lot of other countries, it's perfectly acceptable to buy a ticket for your journey when you're on the train...

So it would be OK to rob a bank if I didn't know it was agaisnt the law?

Nevyn

on the non dart trains it is perfectly acceoptible to board and get your ticket then as many of the smaller station arent always maned.

Yes the pleebs behind the window dont care if you miss the dart and have to wait 20 mins for the next one all the more reason for the ticket vending machines in more stations.

denis

Originally posted by Victor


The Bye-Laws and other notices say you can’t board a train without a ticket.

Yes, and it's not the fare about which I was concerned. 25 quid isn't going to make a huge difference to my life either way. The problem I had was the soap opera that was made of the whole situation... I'll explain, as obviously I was unclear before..

It’s “Standard Fare”, not “Minimum Fare” – minimum fare is when outer suburban buses operate a different fare structure to discourage short trips, to free up space for longer journeys.

Just repeating what I was told.

He was perfectly entitled to ask you for your name and address and if he believed either to be false, to get a Garda to do the same.

I'm sure he's legally required to tell me why he requires my name and address, and, upon questioning, provide a reasonable explanation of the situation, possible consequences and why exactly everything that was happening, was happening?
Certainly, this was what the customer servicdes manager intimated to me on the phone. This did not happen. I am perfectly entitled to be treated reasonably and with respect.

A Garda can arrest you for giving a false name and address OR if he is unable to verify your identity.So you broke the law again.

As I said, in order to take the issue further and clear things up, I called in my real address. There are reasonable reasons for not broadcasting ones' address in a public situation in which you've become the centre of attention for tens of people. This, of course, would not have happened had the trains official not stormed up the carriage, causing the maximum of sensation on the train.

Because they have to put up with this and worse, day in, day out

This is no excuse for behaving in a disrespectful manner. He was a front line employee. If his job is so debilitating to his ability to perform his duties in a professional and respectful manner to members of the public, then he shouldn't be doing it. "My job is hard so I'm going to take it out on you" doesn't wash, I'm afraid.

But weren’t you breaking the law.No, you were a fare evader, who was trying to evade prosecution

As I have explained, I have never tried to evade a fare in my life, had exact change in my hand on the train and attempted to pay for the ticket. The train officials have discretion for a reason, andthey can sell tickets to people who they believe are actually genuine cases, and who weren't trying to get a 'free ride'. This particular chap, so one of the ladies in the customer service office told me, is notorious for behaving in a maverick manner, and has received a number of complaints in the past.

.And expose Denis as a fare evader? What would the headline be? “FARE EVADER DEMANDS SPECIAL TREATMENT”?

Again, I object to the term 'fare evader', and it's not special treatment I was after. As I have stated, although I believe discretion should have been used in my case, I have no problem paying the 25 euro. The problem I had was the manner in which I was treated by the offical of IE.

___________

To be perfectly honest, if my overall experience with the company had been a positive one, I probably wouldn't have been as píssed off about this as I was. The fact is, every day I go down to the train station, and I'm met with surly, uncommunicative people. These same employees, at a number of stations, I have variously experienced being unhelpful to me, and to other people. This unhelpfulness (is that even a word?) and lack of basic politness is often what people who use IE regularly have come to expect from their employees. And this is wrong.

This unfortunate situation, and the way it was insensitively handled, exacerbated my dissatisfaction with the general treatment we (certainly myself and the vast majority of people with whom I've spoken about IE) routinely are subject to. I'll say it again - I have no real problem with the 25 euro, but I want to make sure that the person that treated me so disrespectfully in such a public place is told by someone that that is not proper behaviour.

See...? I can quote too!