UTV and Eircom announce flat rate internet moves (RTE)

MDR

from RTE.ie

UTV steals the march on the competition .... AGAIN .....

Two companies have announced their intention to launch flat rate internet access, or FRIACO, products on Friday.

Eircom says it will launch a wholesale product on Friday, which will allow its retail division, as well as other operators, to launch flat rate internet access products. The wholesale rate will be €14,780 per port per year.

The company says its retail division will 'shortly' announce details of packages for residential and business users

UTV Internet has also announced two new flat rate internet access products, which will be available from Friday.

The company says both are available throughout Ireland to residential and business users and include all call charges.

UTVip Lite offers 30 hours internet access per month for €9.99 a month, while UTVip XL gives at least 180 hours access for €24.95 a month.

Today's moves coincide with regulatory initiatives which clear the way for flat rate, or FRIACO, services in Ireland.

Giblet

180 hours isn't great especially seen as we have to take a telephony package too.
I was expecting 300 hours.

MDR

6 hours a day isn't enough ?

fair enough ....

sounds like you really need broadband (I assume you can't get it)

Mr_Man

A little disappointing in that Scott had been talking about 300 hours when asking for feedback earlier.

M

P.S. For existing UTVip users there will be an email later to-day asking if you want to migrate to the new offering.

shinzon

Why is it that martin utv et all come in here looking for feedback on what the consumer wants, we give it to them them basically **** on us all and go and do whatever they want anyway, whats the point of feedback if ye dont take it.

Sorry but again this is another example of UTV getting peoples hopes up and dashing them to bits.

So lets roll on the arguments that UTV are gods, at least they interact with us BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH


Regards

Shin

gandalf

180 hours is fine for dial up use.

If you need more then broadband is the way to go tbh. As for whinging about taking the telephony as well so what if its saving you money, jesus lads your whinging now just for teh sake of it.

Gandalf.

Mr_Man

180 Hours may be fine for some people but there are other heavy users who find it a limitation. As for broadband, of course I would take it in a shot - if it was available - but its not.

The fact that you pay 3.6c per minute if you exceed the 180 hours (for peak time) is also a pain. I agree that UTV have asked for our views seem to have ignored them, and followed the party line just like the other drones ESAT and Eircom.

M.

Scruff

[whinge]
dont ye mean:
180 hrs is fine for dial up use.
If you need more then broadband is the way to go.
Unless that is you are going to download more than 5gb\month then ye'll have to pay even more dosh to get a buisness package.
(Presuming ure not a warez monkey cause then ure just a bollix cause only warez monkeys would download more than 5gb a month)
[/whinge]
(not directed at anyone, 180 hrs will probably be enough for me but...)

theciscokid

i thought flat rate... was day and night for a fixed fee?

bk

UTVip have updated their website with details of their new flat rate (FRIACO) based services

See Here For Details

Details:

UTVip XL - 180 hours per month for EUR 24.95
UTVip LITE - 30 hours per month for EUR 9.99

You will be charged standard UTV call rates if you go over the limit.

You must also take UTVip's CPS telephone service with these products (not really a problem, it has very good prices).

It only supports single channel (64K) ISDN

theciscokid

already a thread about it :eek:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=102527

PiE

Does seem a bit low tbh...

"...while UTVip XL gives at least 180 hours access for €24.95 a month."

Doesn't say that on utv website. If I wasn't getting DSL next week I'd be majorly miffed. Then again, €24.95 is probably cheaper than the others will be.

Lemming

Originally posted by theciscokid
i thought flat rate... was day and night for a fixed fee?

Yes. You can connect at any time day or night for the monthly fee that you are paying.

But I'd like to just add to this by saying that this does NOT mean that you can stay connected to it 24/7. There is a WILDLY large difference between what 24/7 always-on and 24/7 flat-rate means.

A lot of people don't seem to realise this "minor" little fact and expect to be able to leave a dial-up connection on 24/7 which is neither practical nor feasible in any sort of term planning.

bk

I'd just like to say to Malcolm and all the other folk at UTVip, congratulations.

While I know some ppl will have a few problems with the service (180 hours not being enough, single channel ISDN only and bundled CPS), I think for the most part these products are very well priced and will attract a lot of users. The XL product is EUR 5 less then I expected and the EUR 10 product is brilliant, I know many light users who will love this.

I hope UVTip will make CDs for this and it would be cool if you could distribute them through the likes of Tesco, Xtra Vision and Dell. You would get loads of customers that way.

Just a few points UTVip might take on board.:

1) Not enough hours.

For people who will complain about 180 hours not being enough, perhaps you could have some sort of top up subscription. For example:

For an extra EUR 5 - 10 per month you can get X extra hours per month.

This could apply to both your LITE and XL packages. A bit like the daytime top up package you had. This wouuld give people maximum flexibility.

2) No Dual Channel ISDN

It would be great if you could look into this again. Perhaps you could charge one channel at normal call rates and the other channel as part of the 180 hours.

Or perhaps dual channel could use double the amount of time (from the 180 hours) when used.

3) Usage meter

It would be a good idea if you could have somewhere on your website where customers could check how many hours they have been on so far this month.

BTW Malcolm, I couldn't find anywhere on your website, that has details about your standard internet service that supports dual channel ISDN, perhaps you could update the sight with setup details etc. I hate having to use Esat or Eircom when I set people up for internet access.

Cheers,
Brian

Tellox

Im actually dissapointed,I was expecting a real flat rate internet on the 25th.

Luckily though,I have DSL

raeGten

I'm one of those people who thought that 'flate rate' meant 24/7....not'always on though. But in all fairness how can you call something 'flate rate' and then tag on an additional charge if you exceed a certain limit. I mean, hasn't this kind of offer already been available from a number of ISPs? Maybe the Friaco offers that are coming out now are cheaper but flate rate should mean that you pay one price regardless of how long you stay on....it's a flat rate.
Couldn't you say that the ordinary dial up connections are available at a flate rate of 3 cents for one minute - but if you exceed your allocated one minute you will be charged an additional fee of 3 cents for every minute?
I don't get it.

bk

Originally posted by Tellox
Im actually dissapointed,I was expecting a real flat rate internet on the 25th.

There is no such thing as real flat rate internet on dialup based services. Even in the UK they kick off heavy users, UTVip are just being up front about it. You won't ever be kicked off (like nolimits) you will just be charged for extra use, fair enough.

Lemming

Originally posted by raeGten
I'm one of those people who thought that 'flate rate' meant 24/7....not'always on though. But in all fairness how can you call something 'flate rate' and then tag on an additional charge if you exceed a certain limit.

Ok, let me elaborate further. You are getting a 24/7 service. It's just not a constantly connected 24/7 service, but the ability to connect during 24/7. So it is actually cheaper since it does away with the notion of on-peak, off-peak.

Dial-up internet access uses a telephone line. It's as simple as that. You are sharing 'x' number of phone ports with 'x by x' number of people. When you connect (or even make a normal voice call for that matter) you are using one of those phone ports. Nobody else can use it, unlike broadband where 'x' number of users are sharing a connection of 'n' size. 24/7 always-on dial-up just isn't feasible since it wasn't designed to be used in such a fashion.

At some time to flat-rate (not just internet connectivity) there has to be a point at which a line is drawn before the seller starts making losses across the board. With internet connectivity, there's usually a practice where the light users are subsidising the heavy users. But what happens if those light users start to become moderate users? Bandwidth costs money somewhere.

raeGten

Originally posted by Lemming
At some time to flat-rate (not just internet connectivity) there has to be a point at which a line is drawn before the seller starts making losses across the board.

That makes sense. I'm not really saying that they should offer the service for unlimited access 24/7 though. What bothers me is that they call it flate rate. It isn't a flate rate that you pay. and the fact that there's broadband services available (in places) that offer 24/7 access with no caps at a flate rate just makes it all the more confusing to the public.
I realise that the phone companies may not be able to offer a true flat rate service - but if they can't offer flat rate they shouldn't say they can.

SkepticOne

They should not be called flat rate strictly speaking, but they are very significant for other reasons.

UTV's product pretty much puts an upper limit on the amount a small business will spend on internet access during the otherwise crippling peak time.

While, there have been reports in the past about small companies running up bills of hundreds of euros on this very forum, the worst effect of per-minute billing has been that businesses have been deterred from using the internet for all but essential items like email. If the number of working days in a month is around 21, this will give businesses the ability to stay on, if needed, up to 9 hours a day. More importantly, it means that once they have paid their 24 euros, they no longer need to worry about internet phone bills even if most of them never use this amount of hours.

This is very significant and will have an impact on Ireland's economy. Arguably more of an impact than last years' introduction of the 100+ euro broadband because now, without any change of equipment, they can sign up for as much internet access as they are likely need. Most small businesses are conservative and need to see the benefits before forking out money.

Ultimately, broadband is the future. It is the technically correct way to access the internet, but people need to experience the internet first (as opposed to just downloading email) for them to make the jump. These FRIACO services will do more to enable this to happen than any amount of 'raising awareness' campaigns that might otherwise need to be undertaken.

MDR

realise that the phone companies may not be able to offer a true flat rate service - but if they can't offer flat rate they shouldn't say they can.

Thats a fair point, UTV's website is a little cryptic on this issue, they could use modifing it a little before someone complains to the consumer authority ...

They will all claim flat-rate access, and then in the t&c small print cap the number of hours. UTVIP is no different in this respect, has better pricing and service.

pete

To be honest, while this is progress it's not quite the quantum leap i'd been expecting from FRIACO.

The bottom line is that for €5 less per month I get 30 hours more online time.... the fact that i can use those hours during "peak rate" is irrelevant to me as i'm commuting & in work between 7.30am and 6.30pm.

I'm finding it hard to get excited.

Lemming

Originally posted by pete
To be honest, while this is progress it's not quite the quantum leap i'd been expecting from FRIACO.

The bottom line is that for €5 less per month I get 30 hours more online time.... the fact that i can use those hours during "peak rate" is irrelevant to me as i'm commuting & in work between 7.30am and 6.30pm.

I'm finding it hard to get excited.

And on those days where you're not in work? ....

What about those who work from home, carers, the house-bound, etc ? Not everyone does as you do.

But the main point of FRIACO (& broadband) is that it stops the clock-watching that has hampered the take up & use of "d'internet" in this country. It will encourage people to stay online that bit longer and let them explore what's out there. This has a domino effect on other areas.

Whislt I never "really" watched the clock when on 56k dial-up, I've noticed a change in my perception to net use under broadband simply because the thought of billing didn't crop up.

bk

Originally posted by pete
To be honest, while this is progress it's not quite the quantum leap i'd been expecting from FRIACO.

The bottom line is that for €5 less per month I get 30 hours more online time.... the fact that i can use those hours during "peak rate" is irrelevant to me as i'm commuting & in work between 7.30am and 6.30pm.

I'm finding it hard to get excited.

Well if you are not home during the day, then 180 hours shouldn't be a big deal for you. If you get home at 6:30 and jump on the net straight away, that means you can stay online until 12:30 that night. You should be going to bed about then You will likely never even come close to using 180 hours a month, so what is the problem then?

What is it that people where expecting from FRIACO so?

pete

Originally posted by Lemming
And on those days where you're not in work? ....

What about those who work from home, carers, the house-bound, etc ? Not everyone does as you do.

But the main focus of FRIACO & broadband is that it stops the clock-watching that has hampered the take up & use of "d'internet" in this country

Whislt I never "really" watched the clock when on 56k dial-up, I've noticed a change in my perception to net use under broadband simply because the thought of billing didn't crop up.

Dude!

Note the use of the "I" word in my post! I'm talking about tangible benefits to ME, a current UTVIP customer - it's just not a HUGE difference going from 150 hours to 180 hours....

And anyway - I think there's a good chance more people are out of the house working / schooling during the day than are sitting at home wishing they could get on the interweb!

but like i said - it's progress

pete

Originally posted by bk
Well if you are not home during the day, then 180 hours shouldn't be a big deal for you. If you get home at 6:30 and jump on the net straight away, that means you can stay online until 12:30 that night. You should be going to bed about then You will likely never even come close to using 180 hours a month, so what is the problem then?

What is it that people where expecting from FRIACO so?

I use maybe 200+ hours a month as is. I don't watch much telly, see.

edit: I think that's how many hours i use - thanks to UTVIP i rarely feel the need to look at the bill!

edit again: oh just to clarify - i don't download "Linux ISO's" or anything like that - i just work on me website a lot

BKtje

I think Skeptic One put it very well, FRIACO is bigger for businesses then for home users.
The palce i work used to just connect for 2 hrs a day to grab their email etc then log off again. Now with broadband they stay connected and arent afraid to send large files around.

Small businesses will usually see the difference that the internet makes when its always there and will then want broadband so they can take full advantage.

The youth of today (or not so young ) can now access the internet during the day without huge costs looming . This will allow them to either play games or do course/school work. The more they use it the higher the demand for broadband will get and the more the government will focus on it.

Now i realise that this isnt exactly what everyone was hoping for, it is however another baby step along the road to where we wannabe. Its a catalyst imo, give it a little time

pete

Perhaps i could have phrased my post better if i'd just said that, from a consumer perspective, UTVIP's existing €30, 150 hour service has stolen much of the thunder from FRIACO?

If we'd gotten these FRIACO-based options before UTVIP arrived on the scene there'd be dancing in the streets....

flamegrill

Originally posted by pete
Perhaps i could have phrased my post better if i'd just said that, from a consumer perspective, UTVIP's existing €30, 150 hour service has stolen much of the thunder from FRIACO?

If we'd gotten these FRIACO-based options before UTVIP arrived on the scene there'd be dancing in the streets....

i'd have to agree with that, but indeed UTVip did take the bite out of it. Nolimits seems to have been forgotten about though, it was long long before its time.

What ever happened to esat eh ? lost their nerve?

Paul

RicardoSmith

Personally I think its excellent. I've already signed up. There are occasions when I work from home and would be using the web practically all day. As I can't get BoredBand its really going to make night and day difference to me. I expect my bill will drop by hundreds of euros. Personally I am dancing around the room, if not the street.

Oh and I've mailed all my online friends and relatives about it too.

bk

Originally posted by pete

And anyway - I think there's a good chance more people are out of the house working / schooling during the day than are sitting at home wishing they could get on the interweb!

Of course this product isn't suitable for everyone, it does however fill a major gap in the market for many people.

If people are only interested in off peak hours then netsmart may be better for them. I expect IOL will have to change its Netsmart products as the two UTV products completely blow Netsmart out of the water.

The only gap left in the market after this is very heavy time users and broadband is the correct product for them, not FRIACO products.