UTV and Eircom announce flat rate internet moves (RTE)

Nyum Nyum

I don't know what to do

I'm with UTV already and am waiting to hear how my application for Broadband is going - so I do I migrate my existing account or carry on waiting just in case?

sceptre

Originally posted by MDR
They will all claim flat-rate access, and then in the t&c small print cap the number of hours.

Oh, any bold companies that do that will be hearing from me via the ASAI as soon as the first adverts go out. There'll be no marketing of pewter as silver (even if silver is commercially impractical and impossible)

Telcos can save themselves from this hassle if they market the product as pre-paid blocks of Internet access at a reduced rate or something equaly catchy that doesn't include the words "flat-rate". Eircom and Esat "free" access is another target I'm lining up for (the "free" v "subscription" distinction is no longer a protection)

RicardoSmith

Originally posted by bk
...The only gap left in the market after this is very heavy time users and broadband is the correct product for them, not FRIACO products.

Unless they can't get broadband in which case FRIACO is.

Cabaal

Originally posted by bk
There is no such thing as real flat rate internet on dialup based services. Even in the UK they kick off heavy users

Actually thats incorrect, some ISP in the Uk don't actually kick off heavy dialup users, BT may but AOL actually don't

Don't bother going on about different ISP services because I'm only saying they don't kick off people who stay on-line alot.

tuxy

well some of the isp's in the uk would have a big enough customer base to allow some people to be very heavy users with out affecting the service for eveyone
this isnt posible in ireland because its a smaller market

Dawg

Seems to me like there's just no pleasing some people. UTV cant just wave a magic wand and give everyone superfast always on connections, nor can they provide a 24/7 always on dialup service for anywhere near that price. To do that each user would need a dedicated port which just isn't viable.

180 hours for 25 quid is pretty damn good, fair play to UTV. Maybe a top up option down the line where people could buy a few more hours if they need them would be nice. Most people wont use the net 6 hours a day, so the extra hours can be used on those days your home from work bored (really bored if your using teh net that long tbh).

Like someone said before, some people are whinging just for the sake of it, so much so that when there's something worth whinging about you will be completely ignored, and there's no-one to blame but yourselves.

UTV are working within constraints, same as every one else. From what I can see they're providing about as much as they can while maintaining some sort of profit. If you dont like the deal, then go with a different company. Personally I dont fancy your chances getting a better package elsewhere.

Mo'

I work a three on, three off shift system along with ± 150 others in my company. A good 90% of us have pc's (thanks to the company) and use the internet on our days off. I will definitely be forwarding the news around to them because, initially, when UTVip came out, alot of them said to me that it wouldn't make much of a difference to them 'coz they use the internet day and night, and are often busy with other things during 'off-peak' hours.
The XL package will make a huge difference to these guys and girls....and to my phone bill once again

THANX UTV

Cuauhtemoc

Well i find it all much ado about nothing as i arrived home on a nice day to find a pleasant bill from eircom for €197(mostly internet). Cheers!

My bb connection should be in within the month(fingers crossed) which is why i consider it all a bit late.

Maybe for low rate users and ppl outside the bb area its good but it should've been here a long time ago.(utvip may have been but i wasn't aware of there service until about a month ago. They could've advertised better.)

pete

Originally posted by Dawg
Seems to me like there's just no pleasing some people.

well pardon me for having a ****ing opinion

Urban Weigl

Originally posted by tuxx
well some of the isp's in the uk would have a big enough customer base to allow some people to be very heavy users with out affecting the service for eveyone
this isnt posible in ireland because its a smaller market

I have written this so many times, but almost can't be bothered anymore now; The reason why Ireland can not sustain a true flat rate internet access model is not because of it being a smaller market, but rather it is because of Eircom. If this were not the case, how could you explain how New Zealand for example, which has a smaller population (not to mention New Zeland does not have the advantage of being so close to London, a hub for international backhaul and connectivity!), can sustain true flat rate packages for around 14-15 euros a month (yes, they allow up to 720 hours usage a month!), and limited flat rate packages (up to 300 hours a month) for 12-13 euros.

By the way, I personally believe that flat rate is not the way to go. We need broadband, and not just for some, but for everyone, which is why ComReg must update the USO to force Eircom to offer at least 512kbps broadband to every one at affordable rates (somewhere between 20 and 40 euros a month), not just cherry pick a few areas.

Giblet

I cant get DSL and probably will be never able to.. I have to transfer big files all the time. And on ISDN I'm limited to 7.5k.
IOL will be offering 180 aswell, except that I wouldn't of had to change my phone provider to supply them with extra funds. I though THIS would have allowed them to supply 300 hours a month, and If
I remember correctly, this was insinuated by previous posts by Scott et al.

Dawg

well pardon me for having a ****ing opinion

Your perfectly entitled to it mate, and your entitled to posting it here same as everyone else.

If your not happy with the offering, then by all means tell UTV where you think they're going wrong. Of course, there's no point setting unrealistic goals that cant be achieved by them or anyone else in their situation.

I wasn't getting at anyone in particular, simply stating that some people are slating the service without actually thinking through what can and cant be achieved at this time. Sure we'd all love decent connections at an affordable price but whinging consistently without providing any alternatives is pointless and counterproductive. If I was working with UTV and noticed the same usernames on here whining about EVERY service (not just UTV's) like spoilt kids because they cant get what they want I'd simply stop taking those peoples opinions seriously.

What's your major concern with the service and how do you think it can be improved? Keeping in mind that if UTV dont pull a profit they just wont offer a service at all.

RicardoSmith

Originally posted by Cuauhtemoc
....Maybe for low rate users and ppl outside the bb area ...

or people inside the bb area who still can't get it 'cause of bad copper...

pete

Dawg - i've already said what my "concern" is - i was hoping (perhaps irrationally) for something more. What can I say? - UTV have spoiled me..... I've also already registered for migration to the new service!

Ricardo- that's the post there i think you're referring to. It's all aspirational, and i'm not going to criticise ANYONE in the current climate for not being able to deliver what they HOPED to be able to deliver.

Another option is to charge in a similar fashion to our current UTVip off peak flat rate service in which we advertise up-front a limit to the number of hours which can be used in a month, beyond which per minute charges apply. On a 24/7 service, we would anticipate that this limit may be in the region of 250-300 hours per month with the possibility of per minute charges of around 1c per minute thereafter. Obviously a service of this type would meet the needs of 99.9% of customers but may raise questions in terms of our advertising, as to whether the service is truly flat rate. Within the UK the BT Surftime Anytime service operates in this manner with a limit of 150 hours per month, beyond which call charges apply.

And the above statement was qualified by

We are not fixed on the final product offering and want to be as upfront as we can about the issues that we face in putting forward a commercially viable product.

Truly, I feel their pain.

vac

Universal flat rate (unmetered) access to the internet for all users.

Is this not one of the irelandoffline goals, one of OUR goals...

Why are you calling people "whines" for wanting more? We're not in this to get 180 hours of use per month, we're in it to get what pretty much every other country has (FRIACO wise).

Why should we settle for less, just because it suits some of you?

Dawg

I could be wrong (its not unusual) but I think most countries have something similar to what UTV are offering, a set number of hours for a fixed monthly fee. I'd be of the opinion that if you use more than 6 hours a day then really you should be looking for broadband.
The lack of broadband coverage is not UTV's fault, and they shouldn't be expected to make up the defficet(sp?) caused by other companies. If its an always on 56k connection you want then thats fine, maybe UTV can introduce a service to cater for you in the future but it wont be in the €25 a month bracket. They have to buy from Eircon too.

Its not settling for less, its taking the problem to the correct source.

And for the record the current situation doesn't particularly suit me. I cant get broadband, but I'm not going to waste my energy blaming UTV when I know damn well that they aint the problem. I'll make do with the best of a bad bunch and continue harrassing ComReg and Eircom until I get a suitable connection.

UTV already cut a lot of peoples bills in half, and now they've offered more hours for a lower price... credit where its due

Giblet

A broadband* user who used it for 6 hours a day @ 50 k/sec would bust the cap in just over 3 days, therefore if they left it like that for a month it would be 32 gigs.
Now say if they used it like a modem user, 5k a sec for 6 hours a day with no other use (which is hard due to it being always on), the cap would be used up in a month. So saying that if you needed more time you would should use broadband is misleading.
Speed is the issue with broadband, and in its current format, iit is only suitable for light to med users


*eircom standard package

Dawg

Yes Giblet, but I think you might have missed my point.

Who's fault is it that most BB services are capped?

And who's fault is it that most people cant avail of it anyway?

And who's fault is it that UTV can only offer 180 hours on the dial-up service?

What I was getting at is that there's no point blaming UTV for a problem caused by someone else. I'm just repeating myself now...

niallb

I was hoping for more hours on the main package.
After reading Scott's post on 250-300 hours, the 180 seems a step back.
Maybe it's a bit of insurance with the Eircom case being adjourned. If so, fair enough.

I've been using UTVip with the peaksaver option since September at €40 per month. Happy with that.
My average internet use would be about 250 hours,
so this package is going to save me upwards of €150 a month. Happy with that.
However, the 180 hours leaves me still clockwatching, and I'd like to see a similarly priced extension (i.e. the €10 for peaksaver) to the product with more hours and the reduced peak rate for extra minutes.

How about splitting the difference between 180 and 300 for a third tier and call it 247 hours for true "24 7" access at about €35.
That's much the same price per hour for UTV and it would look good in advertising as Teleworker 247.

180 hours is plenty if you're out all day, but it's not Mission accomplished for IrelandOffline just yet.

Rambling, grumbling,
but thanks anyway UTV.
NiallB

vac

I could be wrong (its not unusual) but I think most countries have something similar to what UTV are offering, a set number of hours for a fixed monthly fee.

UK has umptine isps that do completely flat rate dialup. Only thing some of them enforce is a two hour cut off.

mechanima

***
However, the 180 hours leaves me still clockwatching, and I'd like to see a similarly priced extension (i.e. the €10 for peaksaver) to the product with more hours and the reduced peak rate for extra minutes
***

Me too...I have a feeling this new friaco will wind up COSTING me more without peaksaver...

PLEASE CAN WE KEEP PEAKSAVER!!

And further, I would happily pay more for more hours. Isn't there some way this could be arranged?

G

tuxy

maybe get both the utv and esat offer?

bk

Originally posted by RicardoSmith
or people inside the bb area who still can't get it 'cause of bad copper...

Or people who can afford EUR 25 but not EUR 99 install plus EUR 50 per month.

Urban Weigl

I agree with Dawg, the fact that UTV's flat rate plans are so limited is not their fault, so it is pretty useless blaming them.

However, in the current climate I do not understand why they are not launching a high use "true" flat rate plan as well. This could cost for example 74.95 euros a month. Yes it would be out of the league of most consumers and more expensive than broadband, but at least it would be an option for people who need to use the Internet more and have no access to broadband.

Or perhaps I spoke too soon, and this is in the works already.

mechanima

Just occurred to me, there is a solution that might suit everybody.

WHAT ABOUT an option on, say an extra 100hrs @ maybe €10 - €15 for any number that fails the line test? Or special circumstances where committing to a 12 months contract is not a viable option?

I think you have to restrict such an offering for the sake of avoiding a logjam.

I would happily pay that, AND it is very unlikely that I would use the WHOLE extra 100 hours. I think the same goes for a lot of other people because heavy users, in fact, seem to be using 220 -250 hours, so that, in effect, UTV would be paid in advance for a lot of time that is not used? Which has to be good.

Worth considering?

G

raeGten

Why are we all calling these products Flat rate? If they were flat rate then there couldn't be a cap.
It is a bit dissapointing that we were told flat rate packages were on the way and instead we get more of the same but slightly cheaper.
I really don't care one way or another beacuse I'm still hoping for BB. But I don't like false advertising. I presume most of the people on this forum would be fairly savy with IT but If companies start advertising these offers as 'Flat Rate' a lot of people could be mislead.
Okay it's an improvement...deffinately...but so much for flat rate!
If it'll never happen on the phones then I guess it's up to the likes of Via and NTL (if they can get out of Dublin West).

Martin-UTVi

UK has umptine isps that do completely flat rate dialup. Only thing some of them enforce is a two hour cut off.

Indeed they do, but once they start to take off there is also a huge amount of engaged tones on these services....

BoneCollector

I would have thought an inactivity timer would be more efficient that a cut off limit..

Where as with a cut off limit of say 2 hrs, someone could be online but doing nothing for an hour taking up resources that could be used by someone else..
If you set an inactivity timers of say 15 mins then this means that any user not detected as uploading or download will be cutoff,
since there doing nothing.. this should not be an inconvenience, since i know from using nolimits i have sometimes a tendancy to forget i am connected and have sat down to watch a movie for 2 hrs only after which i then discover i never disconnected..

Im sure many other people would find themselves in the same situation, and just as an added benifit to using an inactivity timer, this would also save users from using up there alloted 180 hours of online time which i would feel would be a blessing..

Martin-UTVi

I would have thought an inactivity timer would be more efficient that a cut off limit

This is an idle timeout you are referring to rather than a session timeout. We do have an idletimeout in place and I think it is set to approx 10 minutes. This is an important feature as it prevents users accidentally staying on longer than they realise.

css

Fair play to UTVip its great to see, but as someone who can use BB at work, I would not be a 180 hr customer, but I would not be a 30 hr one either... what are the chances of something in the middle?

Ok maybe I am asking a bit much, but i do reckon there would be a market for this...