UTV and Eircom announce flat rate internet moves (RTE)

pete

Originally posted by BoneCollector
Okay. im going to be the bad guy here and say..
anyone that seriously thinks this utiv product is not enoungh given our current climate, is being selfish, short sighted and would be a potential abuser of the service and wants all the cherry cake for themselves regardless of consequences to anyone else. :ninja:

Interesting concept, that... would you mind explaining how someone becomes an "abuser of the service", bearing in mind that you pay by the minute for anything over the 180 allotted hours...

Ruu_Old

i agree, if you go over the alotted amount, then u pay for it. Not a thing wrong with that just you have to pay more than everyone else but ud be prepared for that of course

pete

deleted: no point replying to deleted posts now, is there?

SkepticOne

Originally posted by pete
deleted: no point replying to deleted posts now, is there?

I was hoping to delete it before anyone replied. Would have left it in otherwise.

PiE

Have eircom announced anything? Or can they not even keep to their own press releases?

BoneCollector

nteresting concept, that... would you mind explaining how someone becomes an "abuser of the service", bearing in mind that you pay by the minute for anything over the 180 allotted hours.

You obviously read the post too quickly...
I did not say that anyone paying per min over 180 was an abuser..
read the post again.. Sllooowly this time..
BTW (it might be an idea to read my previous replies too)
Let me know when you comprehend

mechanima

Very sadly I see that this time Esat listened and UTV did not.

€45 for 260 hours, which would suit me ideally.

If UTV do not match this offer I will have no realistic choice but to switch first thing monday morning...because even though I already migrated (because I trusted UTV to do the very best they could for us as they did in the past) I think I can force a cancellation within 3 month before the commencement
date. Nothing is signed after all.

I REALLY do not want to have to do this.

Consider it, although a considerable saving on my unavoidable overrun it is still a very high price that will make more casual net users think twice.

Please offer us this service.

Or if you cannot do that, let those of us who trusted you enough to migrate without waiting to see if Esat's offer was better, get off the hook NOW and take up the service that does meet our needs if you cannot match it.

For some silly reason I feel really sad about this. But I have no other choice. My income is very limited.

As things stand, I cannot afford the luxury of staying with UTV.

G

Rags

We've obviously been working on this product and associated details for some time, and we are confident that at 180 hours we'll be appealing to the majority of the market. In fact average FRIACO use in the UK sits around 34 hours, and less than 1% of UK internet dialup users access the internet for more than 150 hours per month. To be honest, anything above 180 hours is appealing to an extemely small quantity of people. We are doing everything we can within the telecoms framework - any more and the service just isn't commercially viable for us. Please remember that as part of a plc and to ensure continuous service ( ), we can't be in a position where the service runs at a loss.

Ok Martin first of all the uk has nothing to do with the situation here. The uk has broadband available to the majority, the hardcore in uk who use the net a lot have the choice of broadband. In ireland we DONT. You talked about your logs showing most people dont go over 150hours etc. That maybe true for instance I am one of these heavy users yet I never went over 150hours with utv. Why? Cause I cant afford too. But I as many people are saying want a better package like the 300hours u menctioned before on these very boards. Esat listend as much as I dislike them , they gonna make my bill cheaper and ur not. so.....

Cork

Originally posted by mechanima
Very sadly I see that this time Esat listened and UTV did not.

€45 for 260 hours, which would suit me ideally.

If UTV do not match this offer I will have no realistic choice but to switch first thing monday morning...because even though I already migrated (because I trusted UTV to do the very best they could for us as they did in the past) I think I can force a cancellation within 3 month before the commencement
date. Nothing is signed after all.

As things stand, I cannot afford the luxury of staying with UTV.

G

As consumers of internet product - product and cost are all important. If Eircom comes up with a competitive package - I think I'd consider it.

Loyalty or holding grudges to one given phone company is crazy. I think that - from here on in - you look at the packages and go for the deal that best suits your own circumstances.

Personally, I am going to wait to see the Eircom offering. I have no regard for Eircom - but I think I'll wait to see what they come up with.

The piece in todays Independent with Dermot Ahern in the Launch of the UTVIP product did not surprise me.

But, I'll wait to see what they will bring to the market. Then, I'll go for the deal that best suits me. (probably with Esat).

Rags

Dead right, never have loyality for a "company". I dislike eircom and esat but I have no problems getting any product from them if it makes my bill at the end of the month cheaper. Thats what matters to me and most sensible people.

BoneCollector

Its amazing how money makes people suddenly forget, just like a politician eh?
Winge winge winge!!

never mind when we all rejoyced! when utv offered the only real package availble and we all flocked with glee, and this was when errcom had not offered utv a product to pass on to us, they made the product them selves..

Inturn this force esat and eircom to wake up to people power, and we all said hurray for utv..

even now ercom still hold all the marbles but oh! utv didnt offer us what we want 1st time on friaco so lets now forget all the support they have been giving us and go where the money is..
lets all stop showing our resolve and give in to esat and ercom before utv can have a chance to see what there up against and mature the product to best suit its loyal!??(yeah right!) customers..

Winge winge winge!!
Where a pressure group, where suppose to be making a stand against the very people that hold this country to ransom on the telecomunications front, but your first priority when the shiit hits the fan is to jump ship and go where the money is never mind standing your ground in the name of protest against these people..

Winge winge winge!!
yeah go-on crawl back to the master that whiped you as you begged for some relief from anyone who could offer it...
Now you had your full of relief its time to forget past greivences and put yourself back it the hands of the very people that are part of the problem! and not! the solution.

:ninja:

Rags

Dont me so melodramatic. Utv are in it for the money , you would be a fool to think otherwise. The fact is they can match esats 260hour but they dont want too. They arent interested in that market. So why the hell would any sensible person stay with them when they can save money with esat. Thats just stupid.

Utv know fine well from these boards and their support group there is many asking for this kind of product. They choose to ignore. 180hours is a big difference from the 300 they menctioned before....

pete

Originally posted by BoneCollector
You obviously read the post too quickly...
I did not say that anyone paying per min over 180 was an abuser..
read the post again.. Sllooowly this time..
BTW (it might be an idea to read my previous replies too)
Let me know when you comprehend

Hmm condescending and patronising, and all in the one post. Getting to be a recurring theme round here.

Maybe you should take your own advice? Perhaps you could indicate where I was mistaken?

I thought it was a simple enough question... but i'll try again.

- The consumer enters into a contract for the supply of "X" amount of a given product or service.

- The contract states that the supply of anything over "X" will be charged at an agreed rate.

Everything is agreed up front, everyone knows where they stand, so...

How can the consumer abuse this?

Ruu_Old

i kinda agree, know what BoneCollector is saying. I would never go back to Eircom no matter how cheap they would offer or 1000 hours per month, just couldnt do it.Eircom represent all that is wrong. At least maybe Esat are trying to make up from No Limits, they are trying.

BoneCollector

Dont me so melodramatic. Utv are in it for the money

yeah and you have just missed the whole point of the excersice..

Perhaps you could indicate where I was mistaken?

it thought i just did!?

I did not say that anyone paying per min over 180 was an abuser

pete

Originally posted by BoneCollector
it thought i just did!?

Jesus. I'm starting to remember why i don't post here much. I just can't tell the trolls from the idiots anymore.

You stated

anyone that seriously thinks this utiv product is not enoungh given our current climate, is being selfish, short sighted and would be a potential abuser of the service and wants all the cherry cake for themselves regardless of consequences to anyone else

Look... The number of hours is irrelevant.

Please explain how anyone could abuse UTVIP's service.

Please.

SkepticOne

Yes. UTV have an up front number of hours that they are prepared to offer on their service. So do Esat. It is quite possible that people using the services to the max are not making money for the ISP but that is the ISPs problem not the user's.

The issue of abuse only comes into the equation in true flat rate products like freeserve in the UK. This is the main problem with such services since abuse isn't fully defined. After the nolimits fiasco, it was very unlikely that any ISP would go down this route anyway.

pete

the reason this bothers me so much goes right back to the formation fo IOFFL - back to the ESAT debacle that got us here in the first place.

ESAT sold us the NoLimits service on the basis that it was unlimited off peak access. ESAT kicked us off because we "abused" it by having the gall to use it for... unlimited off peak access (not literally, of course - we soon found out that anything over 75 hours a month = "unlimited").

So we 2,500 "abusers" paid the price for ESAT's bad marketing. They were able to weasel out of their end of the deal by saying that we weren't operating in "the spirit of the service".

That isn't an option any more. Everyone signing up for the new FRIACO based services, whether supplied by ESAT, UTV, IFA, or even eircom, knows exactly where they stand. They know how many hours they can use, and they know how much any overages will cost.

It is simply not possible to "abuse" these services.

As i said before, my problem lies not with UTV floating the idea of 300 hours and delivering 180, but with the fact that the difference to me between the 150 hours off peak i have now and 180 hours peak/off peak) i'll have next month isn't that great.

I had simply expected more from the arrival of FRIACO. As i said before, UTV have us spoiled.

oscarBravo

Originally posted by Rags
The fact is [UTV] can match esats 260hour but they dont want too. They arent interested in that market. So why the hell would any sensible person stay with them when they can save money with esat. Thats just stupid.

Utv know fine well from these boards and their support group there is many asking for this kind of product. They choose to ignore. 180hours is a big difference from the 300 they menctioned before....

This is the kind of post that bugs me more than any other. It's ill-informed and adds nothing whatsoever to the debate.

It's simple, folks.

• If another ISP has a package that will end up costing you substantially less than UTV's, then go with that package.
• As a commercial outfit, there is no reason why UTV should cater to the small minority of heavy users at their own expense.
• "there is many asking for this kind of product" - how many? Have you counted them? Can you run the numbers to demonstrate that they make up a large enough potential customer base to be commercially viable?
• "they can match esats 260hour but they dont want too"- how do you know? If you can demonstrate this as a fact, please do. If you can't, why post it?
• Even if they could but don't want to, that's their prerogative as a commercial entity.

I'm going with UTVipXL, and I know a lot of other people will be too. If it didn't suit my needs, I wouldn't. If there was another package that suited me better, I'd go with it.

Cork

I agree with a lot of the sentiment with regards to Esat and Eircom.

But still I have no rush to sign up to UTV as their telephone package is tied to their internet package.

This was called a "sting in the tail" last week by on Morning Ireland.

But let UTV, Esat/Bt and Eircom fight it out. Irish consumers are finally getting some competion.

Eircom are still using the "Surf the Net 4 as little as 1c per minute" radio ads.

IFA even launched their telecom service last week. Competion will benefit consumers. But avoid blind loyalty.

Rags

As a commercial outfit, there is no reason why UTV should cater to the small minority of heavy users at their own expense

Oh mr know it all here eh? WHat makes u think that utv couldnt make another package like esats and at least match it. Esat arent going to put it out if they will lose money on it.

If another ISP has a package that will end up costing you substantially less than UTV's, then go with that package

no ****

there is many asking for this kind of product" - how many? Have you counted them? Can you run the numbers to demonstrate that they make up a large enough potential customer base to be commercially viable?

Dont be such a smartass. No I havent counted them. But many have asked for this on these very boards and many want it. I'm not gonna count them or try to convince utv. Its up to them what they do but the fact of the matter is , if esat can do it, utv can. I dont think esat product is going to end up costing them money because they learned their lesson from no limits. So it is commericially viable.

nahdoic

Oh mr know it all here eh?

Eh no, it was actually quite an informed, reasonable and logical post.

WHat makes u think that utv couldnt make another package like esats and at least match it.

Who said they couldn't? But why should they?

Esat arent going to put it out if they will lose money on it.

Yeah Esat never ran their figures wrong, and launched an unsustainable product *ahem* nolimits *ahem*.

Its up to them what they do

Exactly.

Rags

WHat makes u think that utv couldnt make another package like esats and at least match it.

Who said they couldn't? But why should they?

So they wont lose customers to esat genius.

Yeah Esat never ran their figures wrong, and launched an unsustainable product *ahem* nolimits *ahem

Yes we all know about no limits , but they have learned from that. All their current offers clearly state the amount of hours you can use. So I dont get your point?

nahdoic

So they wont lose customers to esat genius.

and you care about that because?

Rags

Because I like utv, they made an effort here in the past unlike esat and eircom. And I dont like either eircom or esat much. I was hoping utv would at least match esats offer so I wouldnt have to change from them.

nahdoic

Alright. I'd agree, I'd much rather be with UTV than any other ISP - but netsource got there first. But like haven't you seen the posts from UTV?

They've done their figures, they've done their market research, they've decided their best approach for mass market appeal. And in my opinion, it sounds like a very good strategy that should be very profitable, especially in the long term.

They'll keep looking into the situation, but I personally don't see it changing much. Adding other products would confuse the 'less-informed' out there, and that's who they're trying to get.

Go with Esat, but personally I think 54 a month for basic dial up is almost criminally insane. (please no one remind me of the eircom per min days of 300+ internet bills - i need to have a hypotist make me permanently forget them).

Rags

They've done their figures, they've done their market research, they've decided their best approach for mass market appeal. And in my opinion, it sounds like a very good strategy that should be very profitable, especially in the long term.

True good points there. But they could always just copy what esat did and market the 260hour deal for business users. So the less informed would probably overlook that deal when they see its been marketed for business users. If any of utv lads reading this, that makes sence right?

with Esat, but personally I think 54 a month for basic dial up is almost criminally insane

I'm getting used to paying higher for everything for the privilege of living in this fair isle:D.

nahdoic

True good points there. But they could always just copy what esat did and market the 260hour deal for business users.

UTV are 100% aware of this product, and they obviously feel that this market just isn't right for them, for whatever reason.

So the less informed would probably overlook that deal when they see its been marketed for business users.

Well that was one possible reason I suggested why it mightn't be right for UTV. There are lots of possible reasons. The other main reasons I'm guessing are

a) market is too small

not too many people would be willing to pay that for flat rate 56k dial up! Is there any point pandering to such a small market?

b) limited capacity at each exchange

there is limited capacity at each exchange, UTV have invested an awful lot of money, ensuring that every phoneline in Ireland will be able to get flat rate access, but there is limited capacity, in order for the service to be profitable they MUST get in the light users. The heavy users I'm assuming really aren't all that important.

How many light users would it take to use up a heavy users' capacity. 6,7,8,9 light users? So even if a heavy user is paying more, more light users will always be far more profitable.

So if they lose these heavy users to Esat, do they really care?

We don't know, and I'm just guessing with figures, UTV are doing what they think will be most profitable. And fair play to them, I wish them all the best. I know who I'm going to be recommending to all my family, friends and small business contacts.

Rags

So if they lose these heavy users to Esat, do they really care?

Fair enough. You know your probably right there, they dont need nor probably want heavy users. Very little profit on em. Guess I wasnt thinking about that.

oscarBravo

Originally posted by nahdoic
(please no one remind me of the eircom per min days of 300+ internet bills - i need to have a hypotist make me permanently forget them).

You called?