UTV and Eircom announce flat rate internet moves (RTE)

RicardoSmith

While I can understamd that the telephony service isn't for anyone, overall I can't see what the majority of people would have a problem since it is cheaper than the alternatives. For me it was a bonus to the ISP services not a deal breaker. I Suspect UTVip might test the water with their new options and see what the take up is like and compare this with the take up of the Esat product. They might decide to change or not change based on that. I think people should bear in mind of what UTVip has done for us so far, and what the big companies have not done for us thus far when deciding with whom their loyality is with. Whats to say that Esat might revise their product with less hours if they can't handle the demand. its not like that hasn't happened before. As for Eircom, at this stage I'd probably pay extra not to use them.

mechanima

The fact remains that UTV built a marketbase by LISTENING to their customers and potential customers. It seemed like a whole new way of doing business that WORKED for everybody.

I LIKED that way of doing business.

Now it seems that is over. (Perhaps "listen to the customer" was just a special introductory offer?) The whole tone has changed.

What makes me sad is that I had honestly assumed that UTV would match the best offer on the market whatever it was. With that in mind I "migrated" my account without a second thought...and then woke up to find that there WAS a better offer, and UTV had not matched it at all...and I am committed to a service that does not meet my needs.

The cost of exceeding the 180 hours limit at local rate could rack up to punitive levels in a very few days. Requests that something like "peaksaver" be retained, to reduce this to realistic levels, are falling on deaf ears.

I am just hoping that if UTV are not prepared to make a similar offer to Esat that they will have the good grace to let those of us who trusted them too much and "migrated in haste" out of our contracts immediately without applying the "three month rule" so that we can take up the offer that does meet our needs.

After all, we migrated on the assumption that it would be like the launch of UTVIP and that our needs WOULD be met, "on the fly" wherever possible.

This does not seem to be the case.

I do not want to subscribe to Esat, I want UTV to make a similar offer that meets my needs so that I can afford to stay with them, rotten "pings" and all.

Even in the 11th hour I still hope that they will.

G

BoneCollector

Wow! this is all getting very scrappy here!?:p
personaly i will be going for utv either xl or lite even though i have nolimits..
i will be doing it as a matter of priciple
i may or may not stay with utv... but if anyone aske me i will tell them to use utv and bad mouth esat and ercom for what they have been in the past and still are.
its upto each individual here to demonstate and force change in the telecomunication market...
jumping up and down because some peoples expectations where to high in the 1st place is not very mature..
We need to Stay focused on what we are doing and what our objectives are.. if we loose this where doomed :rolleyes:

bk

Originally posted by mechanima
The fact remains that UTV built a marketbase by LISTENING to their customers and potential customers. It seemed like a whole new way of doing business that WORKED for everybody.

But you see they are. 180 hours or less will suit 99% of users. in fact the LITE product will probably suit 90% of users, as surveys in the UK will show that users average around 30 odd hours a month. UTVip have brought out a porduct that suits 90% of its potential customers and another product the suits 9% of its customers.

On the other hand Esat have only brought out products that suit 10% of its products.

It would be a pity if UTVip don't bring out a peaksaver like top up or a third tier to placate the 1% of users which are here on boards. However you can't accuse them of not listening to their customers when thay do listen to 99% of their customers and only ignore a statistically insignificant 1%.

However having said that I wouldn't be surprised to hear that UTVip are working on a product to placate the 1%, give them a week or so, you can't just design new products over night.

nahdoic

Originally posted by mechanima
I had honestly assumed that UTV would match the best offer on the market whatever it was

Why would you assume that? They are a commercial company, they have to make a profit. They are not going to blindly match any product that comes on the market. The line from UTV has always been they want to bring more choice to the Irish market, and oh boy have they done that. They've really shook eircom and esat up. And fair play to them, and congrats.

I am just hoping that if UTV are not prepared to make a similar offer to Esat that they will have the good grace to let those of us who trusted them too much and "migrated in haste" out of our contracts immediately without applying the "three month rule" so that we can take up the offer that does meet our needs.

Where exactly are you getting this three month rule? UTV have been nothing put perfect in their setting up/billing/cancelling of my account. They always did what they said they would do, unlike esat or eircom. I cancelled my UTVip towards the end of may. I was supposed to give one months notice, but I asked if I could cancel at the end of may. They e-mailed back the next morning, saying no problem, that my account was set to be cancelled at the end of may. Even when cancelling accounts they were responive and helpful.

After all, we migrated on the assumption that it would be like the launch of UTVIP and that our needs WOULD be met, "on the fly" wherever possible.

Maybe you did, I sure as heck didn't. I went with them because they were offering the best service on the market at the time for me.

I do not want to subscribe to Esat, I want UTV to make a similar offer that meets my needs so that I can afford to stay with them, rotten "pings" and all.

I'm sorry, but you are really sounding like a little spoilt child here. Change to esat if it better suits your needs! Personally, I think it's insane to pay 54 a month for 260 hours for basic 56k access, when you could get 180 hours for 25 a month! And that's 180 hours with a guaranteed, when you dial up you won't get an engaged toned, because even if their capacity is full they'll route you through per minute billing. And they'll pay for it!

mechanima

It would be a pity if UTVip don't bring out a peaksaver like top up or a third tier to placate the 1% of users which are here on boards. However you can't accuse them of not listening to their customers when thay do listen to 99% of their customers and only ignore a statistically insignificant 1%.

I would dispute those figures...(can you show me where they actually CAME from?) and if we ARE so insignificant then it should be a big deal to either offer us a third tier, or release us without penalty, to take up the Esat offer that suits us, particularly as even fewer of us cannot get broadband.

I feel it possible that the absence of a third tier is intended to channel users towards Clicksilver...but as I have mentioned before a LOT of people do not have suitable lines for broadband yet, and of those, a lot never will until the technology is likely to be superceded. Even if we were to be migrated to a "virtual clicksilver" that allowed us more hours for the same price as "clicksilver" on condition we migrate as soon as the service is offered.

I would also ask why, if the heavy users are so insignificant, "boards.ie" is a better place to spot announcements from UTVIP than their own web site, support newsserver, or my mail inbox...

G

mechanima

Why would you assume that? [UTV would match the best offer on the market whatever it was]

Because the best offer on the market would, self evidently, have taken the profit factor into account, WITHOUT allowing for the extra profit factor involved in UTV's telephony package, is why.

It could also be argued that the intention to match the best viable products was what is called an "implied contract" from UTV BECAUSE of their, hitherto, determinedly customer based marketing stragegy

Where exactly are you getting this three month rule?

After migrating, which I foolishly did immediately, you are further committed to UTV for three months as at commencement, check the terms...I would like to be able to cancel that, immediately and take up the Esat offer unless UTV is offering an equivalent.

I'm sorry, but you are really sounding like a little spoilt child here.

I think you are sounding unnecessarily offensive.

Change to esat if it better suits your needs!

The only thing in the way IS the "three month rule", and the fact that I am waiting another couple of hours to see if there IS a last minute offering from UTV, I am otherwise pleased with their service.

Personally, I think it's insane to pay 54 a month for 260 hours for basic 56k access, when you could get 180 hours for 25 a month!

My usage invariably EXCEEDS 200 hours a month, some of it in the daytime, this means my 220 hours will cost €75 (in total) with UTV rather than €45 with Esat...

My I respectfully suggest that I would be crazy to pay €70 for something I could get for €45!

G

MDR

Lads,

The tone of this conversation is getting a little bit personal, altough I admittedily have no rights on this board to impose my own influence (super powers), I do feel that name calling (spoilt child ? ... not your usual method nahdoic ) is unnecessary (to echo mechanima).

I would dispute those figures...(can you show me where they actually CAME from?) and if we ARE so insignificant then it should be a big deal to either offer us a third tier, or release us without penalty, to take up the Esat offer that suits us, particularly as even fewer of us cannot get broadband.

Can I refer you to the COMREG statistics, indicating that numbers of Irish people who would use more than 180hrs are insignificant.

I feel it possible that the absence of a third tier is intended to channel users towards Clicksilver

UTV doesn't have to justify the absence of a third tier, and this mumbo jumbo about an implied contract to provide a third tier has no place in real business. One would presume that UTV is not targeting itself at business (thank god) and that therefore a third tier to provide over 180hrs for home user is un-sustainable.

After migrating, which I foolishly did immediately, you are further committed to UTV for three months as at commencement, check the terms...I would like to be able to cancel that, immediately and take up the Esat offer unless UTV is offering an equivalent.

Did UTV attempt to concel the fact you where locked into another 3 month contract ?, if not you went in with your eyes open, without bothering to check if there was a better deal elsewhere. You are a poor consumer, don't blame UTV for that (i.e. with this notion they are oblidged to provide a certain service because of a moral or implied contract to you), UTV get their 3 months lock in regardless.

and the fact that I am waiting another couple of hours to see if there IS a last minute offering from UTV,

What difference is another few hours going to make, I thought you where locked into a three month contract ... ?

My usage invariably EXCEEDS 200 hours a month, some of it in the daytime, this means my 220 hours will cost €75 (in total) with UTV rather than €45 with Esat...

Thats fair enough ... I see why you would want to change over, but is it not all a bit late at this stage ?

bk

Originally posted by mechanima

My I respectfully suggest that I would be crazy to pay €70 for something I could get for €45!

G

It is EUR54 incl. VAT, just for a fair comparison.

Why don't you stop complaining and just ring/email UTVip and explain the situation. I'm sure they will allow you to cancel the account, they really don't want to have unhappy customers on their service.

Personally I think that it is great that we have a variety of different services and can pick the one we like best.

Do however remember the following:
- Esat have a 12 month contract, so if something better comes along you can't change to it.
- Esat haven't told us anything about their contention ratios, Esat may be able to over this more expensive product because they are using higher contention ratios and are almost definitely not doing the switch over thing like UTVip. This will definitely lead to engaged tones and dropped connections.
IOL NoLimits (which I have) is almost unusable at the moment. It doesn't give me much confidence in their anytime products (I do hope I'm wrong).

I'd rather have 180 hours guaranteed then 260 hours of engaged tones.

However at least they are options open to you on the market now.

bk

I feel a lot of people have lost sight of exactly what we have gained here and how important it is.

Take 180 hours at EUR 25 per month from UTVip.

Using basic Eircom dialup and offpeak only it would cost:
180 hours X 60 (minutes) X 1.26c (per minute charge) = EUR 136

That means you are saving at least EUR 111 with UTVip.

But what about onpeak usage:
180 hours X 60 (minutes) X 5.07c (per minute charge) = EUR 547

That is a saving of EUR 522 per month!!!!!

And now take 30 hours at EUR 10 from UTVip:

Using basic Eircom dialup and offpeak only it would cost:
30 hours X 60 (minutes) X 1.26c (per minute charge) = EUR 22.68

A saving of EUR 12.68

and onpeak

30 hours X 60 (minutes) X 5.07c (per minute charge) = EUR 91.26

A saving of EUR 81.26 per month!!!

These products (and Esats) are great and they are a major break through. They might not suit everyone, but they do suit the vast majority of people and will greatly reduce many peoples phone bills.

Dampsquid

My usage invariably EXCEEDS 200 hours a month, some of it in the daytime, this means my 220 hours will cost €75 (in total) with UTV rather than €45 with Esat...

Thats actually €54 with Esat.

You could use the Eircom free dial-up account for 40 of those off peak hours. Thats 40 x 60 mins @ 1.25c / min = €30

Add that to your 180 hours, so you have 220 hours for 25+30= 55 euro.

mechanima

Can I refer you to the COMREG statistics, indicating that numbers of Irish people who would use more than 180hrs are insignificant.

"Self Report" surveys of this kind have only limited value. I would be interested in the statistics of ACTUAL USE drawn from ISP databases, and even they would leave out the heavy users with more than one 150 hr limit account.

I am leaving the switch to the last minute because I remember SO WELL the "auction" aspects of the launch of UTVip. I also notice a very pregnant silence.

UTV doesn't have to justify anything, they have a perfect right to become just another faceless Irish ISP any time they choose. I would just query how much business sense that makes.

The "total internet silence" from UTV this morning would indicate that I am not the ONLY person raising that query.

Also, personally, I would prefer UTV to continue in the way they began. That was something very special, and apparently profitable as a business model too.

The lines to Esat for their business "Anytime" service are almost jammed today...some "tiny minority"!

I still hope UTV will "see the light" in the next hour or so, and personally, I will be very sad if they do not (and may I remind all that what I feel sad about is entirely my decision to make alone).

Beyond that, I hope they have the good grace to let me out of the electronic migration prior to activation.

G

mechanima

You could use the Eircom free dial-up account for 40 of those off peak hours. Thats 40 x 60 mins @ 1.25c / min = €30

Actually, for a DampSquid you are making a useful suggestion, though it's very tricky to have to keep switching dial ups that way.

Doesn't even have to be Eircom's free dial up.

But I would honestly rather just relax, and not have to calculate all this stuff any more.

G

MDR

The lines to Esat for their business "Anytime" service are almost jammed today...some "tiny minority"!

Number one you have no idea how many people their are taking those calls, or even how the call centre is structured, so that implies nothing. Number two, even if the lines where jammed to subside to the service, that doesn't even imply that the bussiness intend to use 260hrs a month .... or are even likely to. My expierence of Esat Bt is usually one of being on hold for extended periods ...

TV doesn't have to justify anything, they have a perfect right to become just another faceless Irish ISP any time they choose. I would just query how much business sense that makes.

I dis-agree Martin (as I remember) came on a politely said (as he always is ... polite that is), that they would not be offering a service over 180 hrs, they have developed their business model and with regrets, that was that. What are you really expecting him to say, are UTV a faceless ISP purely because they refuse to cater for ever minority (and IMHO people who use the net over 180hrs a month are a minority ... not to mention the widely accepted stats that back that opinion up .... COMREG).

UTV have an excellant track record with Irish consumer, and I am afraid your grumblings are doing very little to tarnish that ....

Beyond that, I hope they have the good grace to let me out of the electronic migration prior to activation.

Have you called and asked to be let out ?, although I have made my feelings about this amply clear.

Scott Taunton

I thought it best to post a response to some of the angst which exists towards our new products by some of the Boards members.

While still clearly unhappy, we sent a PM a couple of hours back to Mechanima letting him know that, given his circumstances, we would not hold him to a three month min term. We don't want to "lock" anyone into dealing with us, we're trying to develop products which cater for the vast majority of users while recognising the need to operate within a commercial environment.

I spent a number of hours this morning attempting to model a service for heavy users. Believe me when I say that we really do want to be able to do it. The fact is though, with the FRIACO service as it stands, it just doesn't stack up.

I know a lot of you were displeased with my earlier interaction during which I sought the views of people regarding limits on the service and during which one option raised was a limit of 250-300 hours. The truth is that it just doesn't stack up commercially. For the vast bulk of users, 180 hours offered them all the access they needed. Lifting the average usage by around 20 hours has the impact of raising the cost base for ALL customers by around €8 per month.

When lauching UTVip XL we were careful to point out that the service would provide "at least" 180 hours of access. We are hopeful that the usage patterns seen by us in NI and those of Freeserve et al in the UK will be reflecting in Ireland. That being the case, we hope to be able to extend such limits for the benefit of our customers.

If I may (because it seemed to help with Broadband), I'd like to break down the cost of delivering FRIACO on a wholesale basis so as to give you some additional background:

FRIACO ports (30 64k channels) need to be orders in whole. If you have 30 customers in a given exchange area, you'll end up with a 1:1 contention ratio. Most ISPs will model on 4:1 or 5:1 during peak times. At 4:1, we need a port for every 120 customers. Assuming 90% utilisation of the ports, at with Eircom's wholesale price of €14779 pa and at 4:1, this represents €11.40 per customer per month.

The much higher cost element is the backhaul of these ports to our NOC in Dublin which (post various Eircom setup charges) is charged on a per km basis. These charges are approx €300 pa per km for the first 30km and €90 pa per km thereafter.

The average distance of the 48 exchanges from our Dublin NOC is 100km, including the Dublin exchanges. So this averages out at around €17,000 per port pa, or just over €13.00 per customer pm.

So far we're at €24.40 (or €29.50 including VAT) based on a 4:1 service. 4:1, if spread evenly between customers is 180 hours per month. Of course it isn't spread evenly and in fact is much heavier at the peak times of 10am, 4pm and 9pm.

We do have admin, bandwidth, billing, bad debt, and marketing to add in there somewhere as well. This will account for, say €5 per customer per month and then there's the theory of a margin.

Furthermore, to add to the service quality, if a user dials our service and gets an engaged tone from the FRIACO ports, we will redial using a standard PSTN number at UTV's expense.

If we were to offer a 300 hour product, these costs would, at least, double. For us, it's just not financially sustainable.

All in all, you can see that it's not as straightforward as some pundits suggest. I'm not complaining, I'm just pointing out that we have done everything in our power to offer the most competitive product in the marketplace but realise that for some of you it isn't ideal. That's the great thing about competition from an end user's viewpoint.

We're not sitting in a shroud of silence, more racking our brains, spreadsheets and commercial knowledge to find a way of meeting everyone's needs. Unfortunately compromise, in this instance, means that we may lose some business from some existing customers, while gaining business elsewhere.

The one thing that you can be assured of is that we will constantly seek to improve our products from technical, support and pricing perspectives in order to keep your custom, win it, or win it back.

Boards has been a very useful platform for us to interact and improve our services. That's not about to change. The fact that some of you need a 300+ hour dialup internet service is one that, under the current commercial and regulatory environment, we can't find a solution....yet.

Kind regards

Scott Taunton
Managing Director
UTV Internet

flav0rflav

Scott,

I must commend you on a very informative and open contribution to the discussion.

Going forward, I presume you would be hoping for a reduction/alternative in the backhaul pricing.

mechanima

Number one you have no idea how many people their are taking those calls, or even how the call centre is structured, so that implies nothing. Number two, even if the lines where jammed to subside to the service, that doesn't even imply that the bussiness intend to use 260hrs a month .... or are even likely to. My expierence of Esat Bt is usually one of being on hold for extended periods ...

Let me tell you what I DO know for sure.

The logjam subsided to the specific extension just after 1pm, which suggests strongly that most calls are being placed from offices.

My call was answered on the assumption it was an enquiry for business internet service on a general enquiry line.

That line is now "fast engaged" which means either:
a) Off the hook
b) Jammed

"a)" is VERY unlikely.

I dis-agree Martin (as I remember) came on a politely said (as he always is ... polite that is), that they would not be offering a service over 180 hrs, they have developed their business model and with regrets, that was that.

Actually, as far as I know, NOBODY from UTV has said THAT yet either.

What Martin actually said was:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=102527&perpage=20&pagenumber=4


quote:

---

Why can't we pay you a higher flatrate for a relatively few more hours?

---

Friad I'll have to leave that one - its obviously something we have looked into and something we will continue to keep looking into.


quote:

---

but I think the figures chosen are unrepresentative of the market

---

We've obviously been working on this product and associated details for some time, and we are confident that at 180 hours we'll be appealing to the majority of the market. In fact average FRIACO use in the UK sits around 34 hours, and less than 1% of UK internet dialup users access the internet for more than 150 hours per month. To be honest, anything above 180 hours is appealing to an extemely small quantity of people. We are doing everything we can within the telecoms framework - any more and the service just isn't commercially viable for us. Please remember that as part of a plc and to ensure continuous service ( ), we can't be in a position where the service runs at a loss.


__________________
Martin Lyons
CTO
UTV Internet


I am sure he would rather have his own words attributed to him unedited!

While, indeed, polite, they are also a model of ambiguity.


It is NOT necessarily Martin's job to post advance notice of matters still under discussion on a public BBS.

It is after 3:30pm and we still do not know one way or the other in real terms.

I am leaving it to the last possible minute to call support in case something changes.

G

bk

Originally posted by mechanima
You could use the Eircom free dial-up account for 40 of those off peak hours. Thats 40 x 60 mins @ 1.25c / min = €30

Actually, for a DampSquid you are making a useful suggestion, though it's very tricky to have to keep switching dial ups that way.
G

Or you can just go over the limit or use UTVips free service and it would cost offpeak:

40 x 60 @ 0.95c / min = EUR 22.8

So for 220 hours you would pay just EUR 47.8 which is about EUR 6 cheaper then Esat.

From Scotts answer mechanima you just can't get any fairer then that. Once again he has been completely open with us and he has given you a way out (as I suggested UTV would), this just goes to show how customer focused UTV are, I couldn't see Esat ever leaving you out of a contract like that.

bk

Originally posted by mechanima


quote:

---

but I think the figures chosen are unrepresentative of the market

---

We've obviously been working on this product and associated details for some time, and we are confident that at 180 hours we'll be appealing to the majority of the market. In fact average FRIACO use in the UK sits around 34 hours, and less than 1% of UK internet dialup users access the internet for more than 150 hours per month. To be honest, anything above 180 hours is appealing to an extemely small quantity of people. We are doing everything we can within the telecoms framework - any more and the service just isn't commercially viable for us. Please remember that as part of a plc and to ensure continuous service ( ), we can't be in a position where the service runs at a loss.


__________________
Martin Lyons
CTO
UTV Internet


I am sure he would rather have his own words attributed to him unedited!

While, indeed, polite, they are also a model of ambiguity.

I see nothing ambiguous about Martins post, he clearly states the the average FRIACO user uses just 34 hours a month (and this is born out by published EU internet usage figures) and therefore the UTVip LITE product.

And that less then 1% of users use more then 150 hours a month. (Thus UTV are being extra generous with 180 hours).

These figures seem very realistic, are in line with other surveys and reports I have seen and I have no reason at all to doubt Scott. UTVip staff have never been anything less then completely honest and open with us.

Dampsquid

Or you can just go over the limit or use UTVips free service and it would cost offpeak:

40 x 60 @ 0.95c / min = EUR 22.8

So for 220 hours you would pay just EUR 47.8 which is about EUR 6 cheaper then Esat.

But that would mean if towards the end of the month he went online during the day, he would have to pay 3.6c per min (or what ever it costs)

mechanima

I am SO GENUINELY SORRY Scott...

I am afraid I am notorious for NEVER reading PMs on these boards. That was the thing bugging me most and the PM came before 1pm when I contacted Esat to make initial enquiries.

The thing bugging me second most was the change of attitude from UTV that seemed to have taken place.

I believe in UTV's business model, that IS a big deal to me.

Seeing your long post, and the offer of immediate cancellation of the account, I feel satisfied that I was mistaken to believe that had changed.

That attitude in business is rare and worth a great deal to me.

Certainly enough to risk an increase in my bill for a while in the expectation that UTV will continue to explore all possibilities, and in the hope that, some time in the future they will find a way to better resolve problems in meeting the needs of heavy users, and not just those of us restricted to dial in, I cannot help seeing a parallel with the download restrictions on bb users.

Apart from which I have to admit I got a little bit of unexpected extremelly good news at about 3pm that will tend to reduce my usage while increasing my income, and I am not happy with the mandatory 12 months in the Esat contract in the light of that.

So all's well that ends well (and thank heavens I don't check my PMs or I WOULD be locked into 12 months now) and I WILL be able to stay with UTV a while longer.

But...by the way...I was a "she" last time I checked ;o))

G

bk

Originally posted by Dampsquid
But that would mean if towards the end of the month he went online during the day, he would have to pay 3.6c per min (or what ever it costs)

True, instead he could use UTVip's "free" service which I believe is also charged at .95c / min or IOLs "free" service which costs 1c / min off peak.
Maybe for one or two hours every evening.

Or perhaps she could get a second telephone line and get IOL Anytime on that.

[edit]I quickly edit my post when I see from the above post that mechanima is one of those rare beautiful creatures, a female boards member Sorry for my presumption[/edit]

Therfore it would cost:
UTVXL 180 hours @ EUR 25
Anytime 180 hours @ EUR 30

---

Total 360 hours @ EUR 55

Hey not bad at all, of course you would need to pay more line rental for the second line.

I wonder would this work with ISDN?

mechanima

I think what DampSquid is suggesting is the judicious use of a free ISP for off-peak hours DURING the month.

For instance if you are sure your usage will exceed 180 hours then perhaps always use the free ISP on Sunday.

There is no reason why you cannot use UTV's free ISP service at that time.

Which would mean you would not have to keep changing SMTP settings which is a royal pain...

G

bk

Originally posted by mechanima
I think what DampSquid is suggesting is the judicious use of a free ISP for off-peak hours DURING the month.

Yes, I'm suggesting the same, I was just adding that there are cheaper free ISPs then Eircom such as IOL and UTVip.

Also by using the UTVip free ISP you should have full access to your email accounts with UTV (if any).

BoneCollector

i have to fully commend scott and UTV on there up front and informative interaction on this board, especialy concidering the amount of abuse they are recieving from some people.
it has always been clear that product will mature, but it seem alot of people just dont have the patience to allow this to happen.

At this point im quite surprised to still see interaction coming from UTV.
Alot of people have clearly lost sight of what has been and is to be gained from from this beginning..
Hopefully utv can forgive those who have been dissapointed and continue to develope products for the mass`s dispite those who seem ungreatfull for what has been achieved. :rolleyes:

Ruu_Old

Thanks for being upfront Scott and UTV and heres to more interaction in the future

bk

Yes Scott, thanks yet again for another great post.

It is amazing just how far some honesty and true customer interaction can go.

Paddy20

When I was a boy, NO ONE told me life was going too be easy.

However, I must concede that UTV Internet and their UTVip LITE package has made my internet usage and my life a hell of a lot more enjoyable and less expensive.

For that I am grateful to UTV Intenet its employees and Directors.

They have now made new internet access packages available which considering the current corrupt if not totally illegal telecommunications infrastructure pertaining in the Republic of Ireland! are very fair and open. They have also set a precedent in customer interaction, service excellance and openness which I have no doubt will reap them many new loyal customers.

As for those Internet users who appear to want everything yesterday if not today! Sorry, but life nor real business, can give you what you want at this time.

Paddy20;)

jwt

I was initially disappointed at UTV’s 180 offering. However I will still stick with them for several reasons.

1 They are at least trying to provide a product at reasonable cost while remaining profitable, unlike some other telco’s/ISP’s.

2 Their customer service is superb (If Scott or Martin are reading this give “Stuart” a big pat on the back, every issue I have had, he has resolved in a professional and courteous manner, and <GASP> actually does return phone calls!). I am willing to pay money for this kind of service.

3 Their general attitude to customers is positive i.e. no fixed cap on the size of web space available, not applying download caps etc.

I have no problem using their CPS as it is cheaper than Eircom for most calls I make. (Your mileage may vary) However I appreciate that some users may not be responsible for the line or for other reasons not wish to use UTV for phone calls, I would have thought that it would be relatively easy to offer a different package to these users , maybe not.

I would have preferred to be able to pay an extra 10.00 a month to get reduced peak rates once I exceed the 180 mark, but given that I am now paying 15 euro a month less than I was, I can afford to run over by 6.5 hours at peak rate and still be winning or 27.5 hours off peak (or some combination of the above)

My only serious gripe with UTV is billing 3 euro for a printed copy of the bill (This I do require for VAT purposes)

I am also confident that UTV will in the future amend their rates in the customers favour if and when the opportunity arises as they have done in the past when call charges dropped across the board. This is in stark contrast with other providers who seem to believe the customer is there to be fleeced and provide woeful customer service, or hold off passing on rate changes for weeks while they cream the profit.

For those of us that require more than 180 hours, I am confident that UTV will provide a premium or heavy rate package once things have settled down and they are able to make more accurate predictions about usage cost ratios. I say this because until now they have been upfront and honest about their policies and I haven’t seen anything here or elsewhere to change my mind.

JWT

sunbeam

Originally posted by mechanima
I think what DampSquid is suggesting is the judicious use of a free ISP for off-peak hours DURING the month.

For instance if you are sure your usage will exceed 180 hours then perhaps always use the free ISP on Sunday.

There is no reason why you cannot use UTV's free ISP service at that time.

Which would mean you would not have to keep changing SMTP settings which is a royal pain...

G

For anyone who collects Piggypoints the Pigsback PAYG number might also be useful. You can send mail from this without altering the SMTP from the UTV one and access the UTV newsgroups.

However from a discussion on the UTV support newsgroup it seems that UTV charge all PAYG numbers (including their own) at the Eircom rate. Hence I presume they will be charged at 1.26 cent per minute instead of 0.95.