I'm stupid... can I get Sky+ here?

DeVore

Err... I kinda presumed that Sky+ was one of those "except for our viewers in Eire" things...

Can someone who knows all about this sort of thing tell me if I can get my sky digi box upgraded, how much it is likely to cost and how much extra it will cost a month?

Ta.

DeV.

ShaneOC

Sky+ is finally available in Ireland.

The Box is €399. It is €75 for installation (plus another €40 if you relocate your existing box to another room).

Sky+ is €15 on top of your regular sub per month.

If you are anywhere near Dublin, I'd recommend contacting Tony for it as people have had problems when dealing direct with Sky.

Tony

Originally posted by ShaneOC
Sky+ is finally available in Ireland.

The Box is €399. It is €75 for installation (plus another €40 if you relocate your existing box to another room).

Sky+ is €15 on top of your regular sub per month.

If you are anywhere near Dublin, I'd recommend contacting Tony for it as people have had problems when dealing direct with Sky.

Thanks Shane

sceptre

Ah, I suppose €15 isn't so bad considering. Current Sky rag mag (July 2003 issue, boxout on page 42) said it would be €20 a month.

watty

The €15 is simply to be able to record it is a recording feature rental.

This is on top of whatever subscription you have.

Perhaps the €20 you read is mirror sub.

It won't record from "other channels".

Can you cancel Sky sub and still have the Sky+ sub and only record the FTA EPG channels, or do you have to a have *some* subscription in addition to record at all?

Then you can keep the existing Digibox for a €20 per month "mirror sub" even if you are on Sky world. Or use the existing Sky box FTA no sub (the LNB fitted for Sky+ has two spare outputs).

I object in principle to paying rental to use a Hard Disk I bought with a subscription already paying to view.

The Sky+ has only two things a Digibox hasn't
1 ) a second tuner
2) A hard disk
Even on an ordinary digibox the signal before it is decrypted is ready to record direct to hard disk.

The Sky+ still has the one set of hardware to convert Digital to Analog, so though it can record one tuner (or both if you pause Live TV), like Digibox and unlike a TV + VHS if you have two TV sets they still can only see the same channel.

You can record FTA channels the same way as Sky+ free each moth, but sky will not licence a CAM for a Sky viewing card for them.
This smells of illegal monopolistic expolitation to me.

Either you should buy a Sky+ or rent it. For Sky to insist you must do both is rediculious

shinzon

Originally posted by ShaneOC
Sky+ is finally available in Ireland.

The Box is €399. It is €75 for installation (plus another €40 if you relocate your existing box to another room).

Sky+ is €15 on top of your regular sub per month.

If you are anywhere near Dublin, I'd recommend contacting Tony for it as people have had problems when dealing direct with Sky.

why so expensive

Shin

sceptre

Originally posted by shinzon
why so expensive

Shin

Ignoring the cost of the box and only dealing with the monthly €15:
Who knows (rhetorical). The EPG info will be sent to all boxes regardless, everything else is a hardware or software feature on the box which you've paid for anyway. Some people will consider the €15 per month well worth it for the extra convenience and quality (no tapes, better quality than tapes), watty will no doubt (correctly & fairly) point out that he can already record shows from channels not using Sky's encryption for nowt apart from his initial investment in his equipment.

No-one on this planet will be able to show you how Sky+ costs Sky Ltd anything apart from the odd software upgrade (which they do for regular digiboxes anyway). The basic reason is that they can charge for it. They're probably not making a great deal of profit on the actual boxes when they sell them - the profit is recouped later. Tivo had an option where you paid a few hundred extra for your Tivo and never paid anything again, as opposed to a monthly sub (which was still there as an option for those who preferred that)


(the above isn't a rant btw - it's actually supposed to be a informative speculative post to answer shinzon:p)

sceptre

Originally posted by watty
Perhaps the €20 you read is mirror sub.

Indeed it was - I didn't notice the "What do I do with my existing digibox" headline above it.

/puts pointy hat with big D on

Tony

Originally posted by shinzon
why so expensive

Shin

The original retail cost was proposed at 800 € which is where the 15 Pm came in, if the 15 were for a limited time i'd agree but its forever under the present arrangement. The normal cost without subsidy of your digibox is also €399

Tony

DeVore

so let me get this straight:

I have to pay 400 Euro to get my hands on the box (do I even own it?) and then 15 Euro on top of what I'm paying atm (which is 68 a month ... I get everything).

Wow.... what a spectacularly bad deal.

I just dont want that much TV to make it worth that.

Thanks for the feedback so far guys. Great to have experts on my doorstep.


wow... 400 notes... I'm in shock.

DeV.

DMC

Thats the one thing that seperates Sky from the competition, you own the box.

€60 is the Sky World package (to watch all in sundry) so add €15 more for Sky+, and its €75 p/m.

watty

Yes I agree, from DAY1 with ordinary Digibox or Sky+ you own the box.

Both will work without a subscription for over 60 Radio and 70 or so TV (inc all 20 ish BBC TV inc all regions from 10th July).

But without the extra €15 pm Sky+ sub the Sky+ is NOT a recorder. Just a digital receiver.

NONE of the "satellite" competing "PVR" boxes that do the same as Sky+ have a mothly rental to record. You own it from day one. You record anything EXCEPT sky pay TV channels. Sky will not sell you a CAM for the viewing card. Yet ABSat, Canal+, Canaal Digtaal, Swiss TV, etc etc you can get the CAM (legally) and put in the same viewing card (legally) that works in an ordinary Non-Sky digital receiver. No monthly rental to record.

Murdoch / NDS is unique in Europe in having a system that you buy and own, yet won't take other operators cards. And that if you buy a system not licenced by Sky for Pay satellite it works with any Pay provider EXCEPT Sky (getting all the Free channels on Sky though).

My belief is that if you had more money to pay lawyers than Murdoch has, his "system" would be found to be illegal. Sky would have to sell CAM for non-Digibox and provide a module / enable existing slot on back of Digibox for non-Sky CAMs. (I'm suspect that rear slot *will* take a CAM if Sky wants it to).

They could still charge "rental" for recording on a Sky+, but at least you would have a choice and be able to use one of the other Excellent Digital Satellite Recivers with Hard Disk on the market (that don't charge rental to record). You would have to pay subscription for Pay TV which is fair.

The Sky+ box even with subscription will not allow you to record from Hotbird, Astra1, Hispasat or even from the "Sky" satellite position, channels not on the EPG. So you can't record FTA BBC3, BBC4, CBBC, Cbeebies, News24 etc, even though you can watch them.

Even €500 would be good value (look at how much a "Hmoe Cinema DVD player only cost compared with Philips home DVD recorder). But what is the point of

It would even be slightly more reasonable if the Sky+ box recorded only Free channels without the extra sub. But it records NOTHING without a sub. Just becomes a receiver.

*BE WARNED*

ShaneOC

Nobody is forcing you to take the Sky+ service. It is aimed at a segment of the market who want to use advanced features and are willing to pay for those features.

I have found in the two weeks that I have had it activated that I watch (or record) a much more varied selection of channels so in effect I am getting better value now for my subscription.

If they removed the extra subscription or had a one off lifetime sub I would prefer it but I went into this with my eyes open and don't regret a penny.

watty

I understand that. ShaneOC. I'm NOT critizing anyone who gets Sky+

I'm just trying to make sure everyones eyes are as open as yours. The $ky Cu$tomer $ervice$ won't open anyones eyes.

I also appreciate that *ANY* set-top PVR (Sky+ or the European ones that only work with FTA channels) is MUCH simpler for most people even than XP Media Centre Edition (Why has MS sent me a free copy of Server 2003 and not Media Centre???).

Obviosly in Living room on a HiFi style box if you want Sky pay channels on PVR the ONLY solution is a Sky+ If you can afford the extra €15 a month forever on top of say Sky World, then If you want lots of FTA channels not on Sky EPG and The FTA Sky channels you could buy a similar spec NON-Sky+ box. It would with 3 LNBs (28.2E, 19E and 13E) on ONE dish (sharing a Quad between the Sky+ and non-Sky PVR for Sky channels).

The NON-Sky+ box might cost near 800 Euro, but allow 4 satellites (or motorised Dish) and typically 600 Free TV and 500 Free radio (include recording BBC3 while Sky+ records RTE/SKY1 and you watch something else). You could even get a ABSat or Canal+ sub. No sub to record is my point.

If I want to Record TV3 or RTE1 on S-VHS I don't pay a rental and I don't have to buy two different S-VHS Recorders (i.e. one will only work with TV3 and the other only work with RTE1, NET2 and TG4). If you want direct recording of Sky Pay TV *AND* non-Sky Satellite you have to buy two boxes and pay retal on top of subsciption indefinately for one of them. This is not a Technical issue but "sharp" and probabily illegal marketing by Sky.

I beleive reading Greg Dykes' speech that this is the kind of reason BBC does not want to have to use Sky Monoplistic "Consumer controlling" Encryption. ITV will thankfully almost certinally join BBC next year.

Probabily not "forever"
I do think that Sky will eventually abolish the extra recording "rental" when cost of Sky+ hardware falls and demand slackens or when ITV joins BBC and there is serious UK competition to Sky+ for Satellite PVR.

Sky used to be promoting Tivo which is "service" with similar outlook to Sky. Not surprising Sky model Sky+ service on that.

Once the PVR market is more mature "Tivo" will only be able to sell a listings service, not subscription recorders.

Expect many more "Home Cinema Receiver" combo units with DVD play, DVD record, Hard Disk, DV camera in, Analog AND/OR Digital tuners for DTT and Satellite.

This year is the first year any significant numbers of NON-tivo PVRs have been marketed. Many have at least DVD playback.