ADSL connection in tiny country called Slovenia

Hijacker

Hello. I've been hearing horrible things on how your Irish Eircom company is exploiting people for their offer of "broadband" connection. And it just doesn't makes sense to me. Let me tell you how the situation in Slovenia is.

I doubt 90% of you even know what and where Slovenia is. A quick brief of history. We were part of Yugoslavia until the year 1991 when we declared our independancy from it and moved on our own. So this year on 25. June we celebrated our 12 years aniversary of being independent.

I've started using internet a few years later where BBS were very popular. At that time there were already many ISPs avaible from where you could chose the internet services. Ever since I remember we had ARNES (Academic And Research Network Of Slovenia). It offered free internet access for kids who went to school. No subscription all you had to pay were phone units wich made my father VERY mad since it was quite expensive at that time.

We had and still have only one company that takes care of stationary telecomunication and it's called Telekom.

We all hated it. The prices of telephones costed a lot of money and the phone units were very expensive. I remember that when they release the phonebook on CD everyone wanted to crack it and post the crack on every forum there is. Some day they decited to raise the prices and people got mad, especially studends! We went to their main building and threw eggs on it but that didn't change much. Prices went up and people were still surfing the same time as before.

Then something happened. I don't know why but the Telekom become nicer. At first they started to offer ISDN wich was expensive but got cheaper later and it was a big diffrence compared to slow modem access. We got more ISPs and even Telekom created his subcompany called SiOL (Slovenia OnLine). He was expensive at first but offered good connections to the Internet so a lot of users changed from others ISPs to it.

So we all thought that Telekom, as only provider of stationary phone connection, will now raise the prices to sky high but that never happened. They started to offer ADSL. In big cities only at first but they are spreading fast. And the prices? LOL! Cheap as candy!

If you want ADSL in Slovenia you need to have ISDN connection first (it's the only term they ask for). We all know it's not needed for ADSL but they claim it is. It's like 5€ more expensive than regular stationary phone so no one cares. And people like the idea of seing the number of who is calling. Then you need to live in not too small town with own phone central. But as I said before this is chaning. More and more people can have ADSL now. I've waited for it for like year and a half since I live in small village but I got it.

You sign a contract with SiOL (part of Telekom) saying you will be their user for some time (I think at least one year). The most interesting part on the contract is the like quote that in translation would look something like this:

SiOL can not change the prices in users harm

Meaning they can't boost the prices! They can only lower them wich they allready done once.

So at first ADSL was pricey but not expensive. Now you need to pay around 150€ for setup wich includes a splitter and a modem (you rent it. if it breaks they replace it for free) and it's a onetime cost. Then for monthly prices. Now come the interesting part. The prices at first were at bit higher and max speed was 2Mbit. Now the following prices and packages are (for plain users not companies):

Standard package (1.024/256kbit/s):
8.060 SIT -> 34€

Comfort package (2.048/384kbit/s):
9.900 SIT -> 42€

Prestige package (4096/512kbit/s):
9.900 SIT -> 58€

Prestige package+ (4096/768kbit/s):
9.900 SIT -> 62€

4096/768kbit/s is the max speed a noncompany user can get. For companies the max package is 8192/768bit/s and it costs 132€. Yes. That cheap.

What do you get for this price? 4 emails (@siol.net). 10MB of web space and all other stuff you will never use. The most important part is that the broadband usage you use is UNLIMITED. No one cares if you download 25GB per day or 1MB. You WILL PAY the same. You also get dynamic IP number. But you can apply for free for static IP if you need it. You can put up server and no one cares about it.

And the speed? I curently have a Prestige package (4096/512kbit/s) wich in theory means the download speed of 512kbyte but that only a theory. I get max speed of 450kbyte from fast servers. Upload is a bit sad since I only get around 45kbyte. Still way better that 7kbyte on ISDN 64k.

And what about those who can't get ADSL? Two ways. Cable internet is one. More and more is cable TV spreading all over Slovenia. Hell it even came to our house and we live in the middle of nowhere. The prices are a bit expensier that ADSL and the speed is so so but again it's faster then ISDN. Or you can still use plain modem. There are many ISPs out there. Arnes still offers free access for students but that is not all. We recently got two new ISPs wich offer free internet to ANYONE who wants it. One is called Volja. You register, get username, password and email and off you go. Another one is Butn who went even one step further and it doesn't even require registretion. Everyone logs in with same username and off you go...

So I really don't know what is wrong in Ireland that you have to pay triple as much as here in Slovenia for caped connections. You should rebel and not let Eircom do whatever they want... If a young contry like Slovenia can have it, so can you.

Dangger

Hijacker, welcome to the boards, and thank you very much for your insightful explanation of the situation in Slovenia and how it came about.

We've been fighting and fighting for tiny steps for a long time. It's an embarrassment that in the year 2003 Ireland has finally gotten around to flat rate dial up.

Do you mind if I ask you how you came across IrelandOffline?

spongebob

Originally posted by Hijacker

Then something happened. I don't know why but the Telekom become nicer. At first they started to offer ISDN wich was expensive at first but got cheaper later and it was a big diffrence compared to slow modem access. We got more ISPs and even Telekom created his subcompany called SiOL (Slovenia OnLine). He was expensive at first but offered good connections to the Internet so a lot of users changed from others ISPs to it.


So I really don't know what is wrong in Ireland that you have to pay triple as much as here in Slovenia for caped connections. You should rebel and not let Eircom do whatever they want... If a young contry like Slovenia can have it, so can you.

This is a troll, has to be. :D . Good troll though.

"Telekom become nicer" WTF . Someone check that IP and tell me it came from Slovenia (not).

Pity Biddy wasn't sent to Slovenia to protect them in 1990 from the JNA, she woulda ate the tracks off them tanks for Breakfast. Then she woulda been a national hero and wouldn't come back here, especially the latter.

M

Hijacker

Do you mind if I ask you how you came across IrelandOffline?

I have a friend from Dublin who pays slightly more than 150€ to get a 10 GB capped ADSL in Ireland. Everytime I talk to him over internet he gets angry at me when I mention how fast my ADSL is and how cheap I pay for it.

Hijacker

Originally posted by Muck
This is a troll, has to be. :D . Good troll though.

"Telekom become nicer" WTF . Someone check that IP and tell me it came from Slovenia (not).

Pity Biddy wasn't sent to Slovenia to protect them in 1990 from the JNA, she woulda ate the tracks off them tanks for Breakfast. Then she woulda been a national hero and wouldn't come back here, especially the latter.

M

I am 100% Slovenian... Waiting to go home from work and surfing on 2Mbit ADSL connection. Our company pays like 200€ per month for it, wich compared to what we payed before on dialup is mear change.

Who is Biddy? I can see you know our history... JNA did attack us in 1991. We fought them for 10 days. Luckily only 10 days.

Dustaz

The ip is a Slovenia online one alright muck.


Welcome to Boards Hijacker, interesting prices. Pity Eircom coulodnt suddenly decide to 'get nicer'

SkepticOne

Originally posted by Hijacker
Then something happened. I don't know why but the Telekom become nicer. At first they started to offer ISDN wich was expensive but got cheaper later and it was a big diffrence compared to slow modem access. We got more ISPs and even Telekom created his subcompany called SiOL (Slovenia OnLine). He was expensive at first but offered good connections to the Internet so a lot of users changed from others ISPs to it.

In Ireland ISDN has been very popular because until recently it was the only way lots of people and businesses could get a little bit of extra speed and reliability in the absence of any alternatives.

Unfortunatly, for the lucky people in enabled areas, Eircom don't allow ADSL over ISDN and you must downgrade to standard line at a fee.

The other difference is that cable companies don't offer cable modem services for the vast majority of their subscribers. This has meant that the incumbent could take their time in offering broaband.

BKtje

I dont see how exactly its a troll..?
He doesnt seem to be trying to get anyone into a flame war or something (unless theres a 3rd meaning for the word that i dont know )

If what was said is true (am assuming it is, innocent until proven guilty etc) then it really pisses me off more. I can confirm the max speed in slovenia is what he said it was (residential ne way) as a slovenian friend of mine is upgrading to that soon and wont shut up about it

SkepticOne

Is Telekom state owned?

>NIL:

...and I am the Dublin based friend of Hijacker, who sends more than 300€ every 2 months to Eircom's large pocket (i-stream multi - 1 Mbits - 10 GB cap).

I would think that with all the money I've been sending for the last 12 months (hehe, now I can break the contract with 'the rat' whenever I want ), you would see real improvements on the Eircom DSL side, but I wouldn't call RADSL a real improvement...
I hope competitions will make them more reasonable at last.

What really bothers me is that 10 GB cap. I sure hope it's not enforced coz I must be about 25 GB for the month of June alone, and heavy download is my main reason for being an ADSL subscriber. But I reckon that situation being as it is, the priority is for affordable broadband rather than heavy users satisfaction, and thanks to ioffl, we are starting to see some progress here.

And to those who doubt that even small countries like Slovenia fare much better than Ireland, I can confirm that Hijacker is from Slovenia and that what he explained above is true. :rolleyes:

Gee, suddely I feel so depressed...

spongebob

Originally posted by Dustaz
The ip is a Slovenia online one alright muck.

Welcome to Boards Hijacker, interesting prices. Pity Eircom couldn't suddenly decide to 'get nicer'

I still think it is one of our long term 'friends' on holiday and winding us up. Why do I suspect that it is either Crawler or De Rebel sitting in an Internet café busting himself at us!

The data is correct but telcos don't 'get nicer' as a matter of course.

M

Hijacker

If what was said is true (am assuming it is, innocent until proven guilty etc) then it really pisses me off more. I can confirm the max speed in slovenia is what he said it was (residential ne way) as a slovenian friend of mine is upgrading to that soon and wont shut up about it

I am not lying. Check the prices on the official ADSL SiOL page.

1€ is around 236 SIT (Slovenian Tolar)

Is Telekom state owned?

Yes, but not entirely. Telekom has also some sub companies. One of the is Mobitel wich is the bigest GSM celuar phone provider. Total population of Slovenia is around 2 Million people. 1.7 Million are using celuar phones (GSM). SiOL is also owned by Telekom. So basicly all (main) telecomunications are owned by Telekom.

Hijacker

Originally posted by Muck
I still think it is one of our long term 'friends' on holiday and winding us up. Why do I suspect that it is either Crawler or De Rebel sitting in an Internet café busting himself at us!

The data is correct but telcos don't 'get nicer' as a matter of course.

M

You don't beleive me? I've posted the links from the Telekom and ADSL. Check yourself if you don't beleive me. And also >NIL: comfirmed.

I live in a small town called Smartno pri Litiji.

MDR

Welcome to the boards,

I actually holidayed in Solvenia last summer, Bled, Lujibana and Piranna, beautiful country ... really beautiful. Lovely poeple etc ... I actually got quite chummy with the secetary to the Irish Amabassador out there but thats another story.

What drove me to join the Ireland Offline committee, was when I was in Solvenia, I was vaguily aware of the internet. There was no internet cafe's on the scale of Dublin, so I passed most of my holiday without the compulsion to log on.

Then I went to Bled, a fabulous village in the alps, with a lake and church on a Island in the centre, a beautiful place. So anyway I did what any Irishman worth his salt would do in such a place, I seeked out the local watering hole and got tanked.

About two in the morning, I was lying with my face in pool of beer on a table ... the pub was oblidged to stay open as long as customers want to drink, they obviousily never had five Irish lads on holidays before ... and suddenily throught the haze of beer and white russians I focused on a clapped out pc happily blinking away in the corner.

Whats this I thought, pulling up a chair in front of the machine, I found an adsl modem nestling underneath the pc. Surely this can't be, here I am, in the middle of the alps, in the middle of f**king nowhere, in a small village and these f**kers have ADSL. Jesus we barely have ADSL in Dublin (it had just been released the previous April).

Of course I woke up sufficentily to talk to the barkeep, who informed me they area had been enabled the previous year and they got tax breaks for providing the service. Un-f**king believeable.

So of course I came back and joined Ireland Offline, unable to accept the situation anymore.

Couple of final points.

1) Wages in solvenia are markedily lower that Ireland, bear this in mind when comparing price.
2) The Solvenian government still own the national telco (or at least it did when I was there) and so the telco's main motive is provision of telecoms, not turing a profit or paying off a dept ala Eircom.
3) Getting drunk and drinking white russians intil three in the morning is not smart, I ended up have a fight with a mate that night, and consequentily have curbed my drinking habits considerably since.
4) Solvenia is a beautiful country, is very cheap and well worth a visit.

MDR

p.s. anyone as pissed off about this as I am/was should go hammer down the door of you local td ....

Cabaal

Originally posted by Hijacker
I doubt 90% of you even know what and where Slovenia is.

Nope I'm sure 90% of us DO know where it is,
Unlike some countries (USA) we actually know where most countries in the world are located and we get along with them to

Hijacker

Welcome to the boards,
I actually holidayed in Solvenia last summer, Bled, Lujibana and Piranna, beautiful country ... really beautiful. Lovely poeple etc ... I actually got quite chummy with the secetary to the Irish Amabassador out there but thats another story.

Hello MDR. Wow! This comes as suprise for me. I didn't know Slovenia is that knowned in Europe. I know that americans thinks we are a town in south America, but for Europeans I didn't know. Must be because of the fact that we got invited into NATO (boooooo) and EU (whoohooo) this year. To bad more and more countries mistake us for Slovakia. Like when our sportmen wins somewhere they play Slovakian national anthem and not Slovenian :mad:.

Then I went to Bled, a fabulous village in the alps, with a lake and church on a Island in the centre, a beautiful place. So anyway I did what any Irishman worth his salt would do in such a place, I seeked out the local watering hole and got tanked.

Oh yes. Bled... Whole Triglav National Park is beautifull. I love it there when I visit it. I was in Ireland last year in May. Ireland is beautifull too!!!

About two in the morning, I was lying with my face in pool of beer on a table ... the pub was oblidged to stay open as long as customers want to drink, they obviousily never had five Irish lads on holidays before ... and suddenily throught the haze of beer and white russians I focused on a clapped out pc happily blinking away in the corner.

Hehe... You Irish. What would you drink if beer didn't exsist?

Whats this I thought, pulling up a chair in front of the machine, I found an adsl modem nestling underneath the pc. Surely this can't be, here I am, in the middle of the alps, in the middle of f**king nowhere, in a small village and these f**kers have ADSL. Jesus we barely have ADSL in Dublin (it had just been released the previous April).

As I said before. At first only big cities could get it (and at first they only tested it). But they are updating phone centrals fast all over Slovenia. In the village I live in the population is around 2000 people and we can get ADSL since February. And Bled is considered to be quite a large town ).

Of course I woke up sufficentily to talk to the barkeep, who informed me they area had been enabled the previous year and they got tax breaks for providing the service. Un-f**king believeable.

True. You now have the computers with ADSL on every major gas station.

1) Wages in solvenia are markedily lower that Ireland, bear this in mind when comparing price.

Sad but true. I hope this will change when we get to EU (or get worser ).

2) The Solvenian government still own the national telco (or at least it did when I was there) and so the telco's main motive is provision of telecoms, not turing a profit or paying off a dept ala Eircom.

True. And I can tell you that Telekom is making A LOOOOOT of money!!! My friend works for Mobitel, wich is owned by Telekom and provides celuar phone network. Hi salary is like 3 times biger than mine and he has same level of education as I have. Plus he told me facts about Mobitel that wasn't released to public. Like how they have so much money that they bought a racing yacht, etc. There was a lot written in the newspaper about how Mobitel bought the rights (concession?) for using third generation mobile network (UMTS?). They were first in Europe and payed WHOLE LOT OF MONEY for it. No one cared. They have money from wich gouverment get more then enough to be quiet.

3) Getting drunk and drinking white russians intil three in the morning is not smart, I ended up have a fight with a mate that night, and consequentily have curbed my drinking habits considerably since.

LOL!

4) Solvenia is a beautiful country, is very cheap and well worth a visit.

Totaly agree. You are all welcome to visit us. English is our secundary language and mostly everyone can speak it.

Nitrox

I say all the IT companies should pack up and get out of this place and move to Slovenia.
It would be cheap, by the sound of it the place is nice and most important they have cheap adsl and beer..
Honestly, why we stay here i dont know, personally it is only because of the job and it is too expensive to move to countries with similar jobs at the moment, but Slovenia sounds perfect to me!!
The thing is that this will happen i am sure, as Ireland is just getting way to expensive and big american companies dont like this, so i laugh at the day when the whole boom here is over, the house market go bust and every single American (and others) it company pull out and move east, frankly i think Ireland deserves it!!
Ohh yeah, before i am getting beaten here i just want to add that i am not Irish and i am sure you will all be a lot happier when it is all just Irish people here.

MDR

*takes out a mop and start clear up the drivel Nitrox has left on the boards.ie floor*

I wouldn't even begin to know where to start to answer your post, but needless to say your one in a legion of twits, who over the lifetime of IOFFL, arrive on the boards.ie forum, complain about how crappy Ireland is, how great is in place X (without even the most cursory of investigations into that place), rejoice at the upcoming demise of Ireland (been listening to that one regularily over past few years) and look forward to the day you can shake the Irish dust from your boots in search of greener fields.

Well Nitrox you know where the door is, this is IrelandOffline, we are committed making Ireland a better place (all be it in our small, self-serving way), this isn't the lets "Immigrate From Ireland Because Of Expensive Telecoms And Bitch And Complain In The Process" forum.

Just by way of FYI, as I remember solvenias corporate tax rates, income tax rates are quite high, they have housing problems too (legacy from socialism) and foreign people still need to apply for a visa to stay long term ....

SkepticOne

Originally posted by Nitrox
Ohh yeah, before i am getting beaten here i just want to add that i am not Irish and i am sure you will all be a lot happier when it is all just Irish people here.

I don't care if someones Irish or not, but I'll be happy when all the defeatist people have gone. They only make the situation worse.

Nitrox

Originally posted by MDR
*takes out a mop and start clear up the drivel Nitrox has left on the boards.ie floor*

I gues a sorry is in place, but it is very hard to keep your cool when reading this kind of thread!!!

Even worse when friends who used to live here ask why you dont have ADSL yet as it is taken for granted almost anywhere by now.

So yes, i bow for the allmighty boards.ie and say sorry, you do at leats try to change thing, but i think if i dont open up sometimes i am going to explode
Maybe either make a new forum just for blowing off steam or delete all threads tellings us about the wonderfull world outside Ireland....

MDR

So yes, i bow for the allmighty boards.ie and say sorry, you do at leats try to change thing, but i think if i dont open up sometimes i am going to explode

Well said, and we (I) do sympathise really .....

Just look at what I wrote about the embarassment of visiting Solvenia.

When I get frustrated (when I hear of changes to the FOI, when I hear of TD talking about demand-side initatitives, when I hear of crappy USO rates), I usually take a deep breath, and remember the world is still largily a beautiful place (and if I get really depressed I go to a cafe in Finglas, have a mug of scalding hot tea, some fresh apple tart and huge dolope of cream).

I then re-affirm my personal committment to do something to change it ....

spongebob

Especially for Nitrox

M

Urban Weigl

Originally posted by SkepticOne
I don't care if someones Irish or not, but I'll be happy when all the defeatist people have gone. They only make the situation worse.

I second that.

Nitrox

Originally posted by Muck
Especially for Nitrox

M

Prison....naah, would not fit in there, but i did have a look anyway, and i do for some reason feel much better now, some serious funny posting going on in there LOL

Forum rules are ok, otherwise there would be all kind of s..t in here and even i would get sick of that!
I wont retract my statements, but i will keep those things to myself in the future, i just could not help explode after reading the thread, was just too much!!

Does the deep breath and tea thing really work? personally i dont like tea, but any kind of food will do the trick also, maybe i was just too hungry this morning!!

So Muck, i dont live far away from Mountjoy if you still want to send me to prison.:D

MDR

I used to live in the shadow of mountjoy prison myself ...

The deep breath/tea and something sweet thing usually does the trick ... for me anyway. You are always going to be knocked, if you care about something enough, no matter where you live or what you do, its all about how able you are to pick yourself up afterwards and get on with it (thats not to say that sometimes its difficult).

Instance success is rare in life, person or groups who achieve, usually do so after long expierence of trail and error, its all part of the tapestry of life, and therefore not worth getting very upset about.

zz03

Originally posted by Nitrox
I say all the IT companies should pack up and get out of this place and move to Slovenia.

Absolutely. Move there not only for internet access options. SLO has a national motorway network - not just a few bypasses. And an extensive electric rail network.

If you are driving in Northern Italy anytime, have a look at Slovenia. Its only a few kms from Trieste. Very entrepreneurial / business friendly too!

zz..

Hijacker

Originally posted by zz03
Absolutely. Move there not only for internet access options. SLO has a national motorway network - not just a few bypasses. And an extensive electric rail network.

Imagine German travelers who want to swim in sea. The Norhtern Sea is too cold wich you Irish also know , so they have to move to south. Since Slovenia has only few miles of sea coast they usualy drive souther in Croatia or even souther in Greece.

And not only Germans. Polish and Chechz also. All driving thru Slovenia. So we build highways. And still building them. All the weekends (during summer and the roads that leads down south of course) the roads get crowded with tourists and moving south can take a lot of time.

But as I said before, we are building.

As for railroads the connections are also very good. You would have to know the history. The Slovenia was allways a very transit country. Wich also proves why internet is cheap. Railroad is also partialy owned by government. And the railroad has the best optical/fibre connections everywhere the train drives. So it's all connected.

If you are driving in Northern Italy anytime, have a look at Slovenia. Its only a few kms from Trieste. Very entrepreneurial / business friendly too!

zz..

And again you are all welcomed to visit our littly country under the Alps.