Opinions in this PC

Raz

Originally posted by TimAy
What sort of specs whould i be looking for in the parts? I've been looking around other sites using the parts you found for me (thanks again) to maybe find it cheaper and its difficult to compare. It would make it easier if i understood what i needed.lol
Is there a good site that explains the difference in all the componants.

RAM
First off there's clock speeds and MegaByte sizes. These are pretty obvious. The motherboard specifications will tell you what limits it can accept.
PC2100 = 266MHz
PC2700 = 333MHz
PC3200 = 400MHz
PC3500 = 434MHz
PC3700 = 466MHz
Another point is the CAS Latency or CL as it's abbreviated.
This is the amount of time (in clock cycles) it takes to get the required data from the chip. For this a lower number is better. Best at this time is a CL of 2 (CL2). Sometimes written like
CL2-2-2-5

CPU
With pentiums and AMDs alike you're going to be looking at clock speed - 2.4Ghz, 2.21GHz etc.
Also you'll want to note FSB speeds,
Intel - 400MHz, 533MHz, 800MHz
AMD - 266MHz, 333MHz, 400MHz

Motherboard
This is the big one!!
Main things to look for are FSB speeds, Hyper Threading (intel), RAM speeds, AGP speed, ATA speed, S-ATA speed.
FSB speeds are as above. Hyper Threading is supported or it's not. It will say if it is.
RAM speeds.
Make sure it supports the speed of RAM you want to get. Speeds as above.
AGP speed.
This has recently improved to 8x
older types are
2x (ran at 3.3Volts)
4x (ran at 1.5Volts)
8x (runs at 0.8-ish Volts)
Motherboards supporting 8x are generally backwards compatible with 4x
ATA speed.
This is the speed that the IDE devices (harddrives CD/DVD drives etc.) can work at. I think it's in MB per second but I'm not sure. Anyway bigger number equals better.
ATA 33
ATA 66
ATA 100
ATA 133
S-ATA speed
This is another recent developement for device connectivity. It only comes at one speed so far AFAIK but it will probably get faster soon.
S-ATA 150

Features, Have it or not basis.
USB 2.0
LAN (network connection speeds 10/100MBs or newer 100/1000MBs)
IEEE 1394 (firewire)
Bluetooth (wireless connectivity. MSI boards mainly)
RAID (faster or backup harddrive connection)

Graphics
Buying a graphics card is a bit of a tremulous area to go into at the moment. There have just been a bunch of new releases by nVidia and I'd expect ATI will be outmatching them shortly enough so watch what price you're paying, it will drop substantially in the next 6 months if you go high end.
RAM size;
64MB
128MB
256MB
256MB cards arn't necessary yet.
RAMDAC speeds (speed of the GFX cards RAM);
the higher the better pretty much.
GPU Clock speeds. (graphics processing unit)
Again the higher the better.
AGP speed.
8x is fast becoming the standard

Features,
Anti Aliasing
Anti anisotropic (spelling??)
DVI
TV out
Each of these is on a supported or not basis or not.

The latest nVidia (FX) and ATI (9800) cards are Directx 9 cards.
The nVidia TI4x00 series and the ATI 9000 series (excluding the 9800 of course) are Directx 8 cards.

That's all I'll put up at the moment. (this is way too long!!! )

MisterAnarchy

EBuyer charge UK VAT rates ;17.5 % and the delivery service is usually 5 working days.

JackKelly

yi'd sticikes, nice one raz! I haven't read all that post yet but it looks like all i'll need.

I was looking at some parts:

this is from:
http://www.marx-computers.com/cgi-bin/store/commerce.cgi

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ATX Midi-Tower with blue lamp

Charcoal Midi Tower with Window and
blue cathode lamp
300W power supply (ATX 2.03 P4 ready)
4x 5.25" external bays
1x 3.5" external bay
3x 3.5" internal bays (1x hidden for floppy)
power cable and screws incl.
Dimensions: 182 x 420 x 450mm (W x H x L)

Euro 66.00 incl. VAT 21%

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That looks like a fairly cool case i must say! Is the board below it any good?

RAM from scan.co.uk (today only)
i know that they are sometimes chancers but:

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256Mb PC3200 (PC400) DDR Memory (Major) £23.00 £27.03 with vat

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The same thing is only £30 when not on today only (its in the memory section under "memory-ddr"). Is that not very cheap and what im looking for?

Raz

I like the case. Looks good and has everything you need. I get the feeling it's made by Codegen who made my own case. Apparently the powersupplies that come with them arn't too good but I havn't the parts in mine to test it I did for a few days though and it was fine

TBH I wouldn't go for the board below. It's RD RAM based which I'm just biased against for some reason and the chipset is the intel 850 which only supports up to a 400MHz FSB. Considering they have reached 800 MHz now it's at the bottom of the pile.

You should read the sticky about where to buy stuff (Although from your comment on scan you might have already, and the fact you were looking up on marx ... I think the clues are building up here!!! )
Scan really do get the worst responses of all, I'd stay away. I think they're based in England aswell. (Well duh! Look at the price Raz!! *SLAP* "Ow my forehead!!" )

JackKelly

Raz, i have more questions!

Ive been looking at http://www.computergeeks.com and i've found some amazing prices so i was hoping for an opinion as this saves a lot of money!

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RAM

(184 Pin is the right amount,yeah? DRR-DIMM)

http://www.compgeeks.com/details.asp?invtid=256DDR3200-N

$46.00 x2 = $92

184-pin 256MB PC-3200 DDR RAM
256MB DDR (Double Data Rate) RAM
PC-3200
400MHz
184-pin

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HardDrive

http://www.compgeeks.com/details.asp?invtid=6Y080L0-N

$84.25

Maxtor 80GB UDMA/133 7200RPM IDE Hard Drive
Formatted Capacity: 80GB
Spindle Speed: 7200RPM
Data Buffer: 2MB
Average Seek Time: <9ms
Latency: 4.17ms
Transfer Rate: UDMA/133, backwards compatible w/UDMA/100/66/33
Interface: EIDE
Drive ONLY (means no cables i suppose?)

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Motherboard

http://www.compgeeks.com/details.asp?invtid=SY-P4X400-N

$109

too many specs,have to use link!

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VideoCard

http://www.compgeeks.com/details.asp?invtid=B-GWU760-128MTV

$167

Too many specs!

I wasn't too sure on this. There is a GF4 Ti4600 but this was only $30 more. Maybe you can help me with this.I read that this card (5600) has directx9 and is far better than GF4 ti4600.

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Altogther that is $454
shipping is $50
=$504
$504=€444


i was getting about €700 for the same stuff (if not less) on irish and english sites.

MisterAnarchy

Computergeeks are based in the US so you will probably get hit by Customs and Excise for VAT and Import Duty which is around 21% total.
The items are small so you may get away with it.

koneko

Do they say who they use for shipping? Customs are particularly harsh on internet purchases. The package could be minute, but as long as you spend more than 25 euros (or dollars?) you'll get hit for customs.

Certain couriers can avoid that to an extent though, so it depends who they use for shipping, but I'd be very careful...

Col_Loki

Comp geeks charge $40+ for delivery. they also deal in alot of 2nd hand or refurbished goods - thats why prices on some items look too good 2 be true. Was about 2 get the Ti4600 from em only i looked at the triangles and found it was refurbished.

JackKelly

well, if i buy it through my workplace, then i think i can avoid VAT.(maybe)
I was looking at the refurbishment thing and they are all ok!
what im worried about is that the prices they give you are excluding vat (or are they?). I only went to my "shopping basket" on the site. i can't "proceed to checkout" unless i register. Does that mean they still have to add vat or is the vat included (american vat).
FedEx i think they use. I bought a phone from england a while back for €250 from the net and i didn't pay vat.

Raz

I've never had any dealings with American companies though I know a few guys who would get their Nike Basketball shoes from American stockists!! Not sure if there's a comparison there

The motherboard looks good. It doesn't support Hyper Threading or Dual DDR but appart from that it has everything you'd need.
It uses a VIA chipset for the north and south bridge and I don't know how they are for reliability or stability, maybe one of the other guys know about these chipsets.
I didn't see anything that suggests it's refurbished as Col_Loki mentioned.

The Graphics card looks good aswell. You're right it is a DX9 card.
When nVidia initially released their FX range of cards they released the 5200, 5600 and 5800 versions. The 5600 was apparently the best of the three. I'm not sure why it was better than the 5800 though, maybe something to do with stability

The Hard Drive seems pretty good too. It's a UDMA 133 device which would match up nicely with the motherboard. Drive only means it doesn't have any manuals or software CDs with it and I get the feeling it'll come in an unmarked brown box. A bulk buy item sold singly.

I don't think they give enough information on the RAM. It's most likely Generic RAM (that's not a brand name) this kinda RAM most likely won't have any warranty or guarantee past what the seller offers and will quite possibly be of a lower build quality and be less stable.

You don't have a processor with those parts though and that seems to me the reason it seems cheaper. The other bundles for E700 ish that you checked on English and Irish sites had a processor in them, did they not?

As for the VAT, I believe American don't display VAT on items. I think it's seen as a government tax and not part of the price of the product. So I'd take it that those prices are VAT excluded and if it turned out that it was included then at least it'd be a pleasent surprise

bizmark

PC Athlon 2400+

AMD Athlon XP 2400+
For higher processor instead please select below
256MB DDR-RAM PC2100/266, 300W ATX Midi tower
Asrock K7S8X (SiS746FX), 5.1 sound on board
1x AGP, 6x PCI, 4x USB 2, 1x parallel, 1x serial
Geforce4 MX440 64MB AGP Graphics
60GB Hard drive, Floppy drive
52x CD-ROM - for DVD or CD-Writer instead
please select under options
PS/2 Keyboard + optical wheel Mouse
56k internal Modem, 600W Subwoofer+Speakers
for operating system options please select below

Euro 575.00 incl. VAT 21%

around 750 with operating system
from marxs computer,s *im planing on buying this is when i have the money*

seems better than that jagura computer http://www.marx-computers.com/cgi-bin/store/commerce.cgi

JackKelly

to be honest, i don't want to but a pre-put together system. i've gone off the idea somewhat. I'd prefare to make it myself. i was just reading some reviews of the GF FX 5600 and apparently it is crap. Maybe i should look for some ATI's, apparently the 9600 pro is good.

"It doesn't support Hyper Threading or Dual DDR"

i would want those specs if i was to get x2 DDR 256 RAM slots right? They wouldn't work as well i gather (or at all). What does hyper threading do again?

Also i am starting to think that i should look for a AMD 2600 instead of a P4? Will that do the job?Can i use an AMD on a P4 board? . My main concern is money. im trying to keep it as cheap as possible,but good quality!

Is the fact the HD comes Drive only a problem. I can get ribbon cables and power connector. I thought you just needed to plug it in? Why would you need a CD?

Are you sure the ram isn't just black label? Just like the other big names but without the brand? So you wouldn't recommend it. I like the big PC speed

Col_Loki

Fx5800 card is suppose to be very noisey, thus the reason it gets the bad pr. Suppose to be a good preformer. Fx5900 solved the problem and is pretty quiet. Fx5200 & 5600 arent suppose to be great at all, Ti series is a much better option. IMHO. Hyperthreading is only available on the Upper market intel chips ie the 800FSB ones & the 3.06Ghz (think also the 2.8Ghz but not 100%) .

MisterAnarchy

Firstly an AMD under 2800Mhz is a better option than a P4.
Much cheaper and just as powerful.
AMD motherboards are cheaper too.
An NForce motherboard supports dual DDR for an AMD CPU(Socket A) and these motherboards have come down an awful lot in price.
You can spend the difference on a better graphics card.
Secondly a Radeon card is better value than a Geforce FX.
The Geforce FX5200 is a rubbish card.
DX9 games wont be released for at least a year maybe 2 and by then new cards will be out so DX9 compatibility isnt a huge factor.
The Radeon 9500 Pro is an excellent card.
You cant use an AMD CPU in an Intel motherboard or vica versa.
it is standard practice for a Hard Drive to come OEM,i.e just a bare drive.
You will get a Hard Drive cable with your motherboard.
I think you should read up on how to assemble the PC
Here is a guide
http://www.daileyint.com/build/buildtoc.htm
There are better ones out there too.
Finally you should remember that the Processor speed isnt the most important factor in a PC.
Its better off to lower the CPU speed a bit and spend more money on the rest of the machine.
Have a look at Toms Hardware .
You will see lots of reviews for different components there.

Raz

Originally posted by TimAy
I was just reading some reviews of the GF FX 5600 and apparently it is crap. Maybe i should look for some ATI's, apparently the 9600 pro is good.

Consider all options! I have to say that I don't know much about the ATI cards. I've been running an nVidia Riva TNT2 32MB GFX card for the past 3 or 4 years now and only last year did it start to really lag behind with games like Unreal Tourney 2003. It was a pretty high spec card at the time so that gives you an idea of the lifetime of the card.

Originally posted by TimAy
"It doesn't support Hyper Threading or Dual DDR"

i would want those specs if i was to get x2 DDR 256 RAM slots right? They wouldn't work as well i gather (or at all). What does hyper threading do again?
Can i use an AMD on a P4 board?

If you go for an AMD chip then Dual DDR isn't really available (Some boards might have it but it's not as effective with the AMD chip)
Hyper Threading is specific to P4 Chips. It means that the processor is effectively seen as two chips. It can simultaneously execute two threads of code at once. This couldn't be done before.
Unfortunately it's impossible to use an AMD chip on an Intel board The chips are completely different sizes (the AMDs a good bit bigger)
They have different sockets for each because of this. The intel has the Socket 478 type and the AMD has the Socket A type.

Originally posted by TimAy
Also i am starting to think that i should look for a AMD 2600 instead of a P4? Will that do the job? . My main concern is money. im trying to keep it as cheap as possible,but good quality!

The AMD is indeed a good quality chip and it's cheaper than it's Intel counterparts. You'll find that a lot of folks around the boards here will champion the AMD cause
In fact you could get the AMD 2800+ for about the same price as the 2.4GHz P4s. If you're Adamant about keeping the price as low as possible then an AMD will further this cause.

Originally posted by TimAy
"Is the fact the HD comes Drive only a problem. I can get ribbon cables and power connector. I thought you just needed to plug it in? Why would you need a CD?

I wouldn't worry about the cables, you should get those with the motherboard. Yes you pretty much just plug it in. A CD may come into play if there is some specific monitoring software that the manufacturer supplies. Also when you get a product in "bulk" form like that it usually means you don't get any warranty. If the it screws up you're left high and dry.

Originally posted by TimAy
"Are you sure the ram isn't just black label? Just like the other big names but without the brand? So you wouldn't recommend it. I like the big PC speed

Well it is "just like the other big names but without the brand" but there's the lack of warranty again, and if the manufacturer knows you're not going to be able to come back at him he may then cut corners.
I just never trust them


Edit: you can ignore the bit about the Hard Drive. Mister Anarchy is right, they generally come as a bulk sale so you shouldn't really expect to be getting anything else with. I was thinking of getting an item from "Bulk" when it also comes as "Retail" (Retail will have a box and a few snazzy extras).

JackKelly

Ok right, thanks.But now i have the ultimate question (because i just cant decide!)


AMD or Pentium


vVidia or ATi


Im thinking AMD and ATi as they seem cheaper and better.
God the amount of questions ive asked.
So the go-ahead on the hardrive?
Im pretty sure the site offers 90 day warrenty on all items so i think the ram should be ok.
The AMD/pentium thing is annoying me. I like the Dual DDR thing but the price is ++++(unless cyrus is serious about selling that p4!)

MisterAnarchy

I've built a number of PC's in the past for alot of people and it seems that you want a good bang per buck PC.
You want to keep the cost down but at the same time want a powerful PC.
There has never been a better time to buy this type of PC.
Prices are very good now.
Ram has gone up slightly in price but its still cheap.
A 2.5Ghz Athlon is about 95 euro,A 2.53 Ghz P4 is 230 and a Celeron 2.5Ghz is 107 euro,all on Komplett.
I'd go for the AMD.
Big difference in price,none in performance.
DVD drives ,CD-RW drives are dirt cheap now.
An 80Gb or 120Gb drive is a good choice.
General guide is $1 per gig.

Col_Loki

Yea if its bang for buck your looking for the Xp2500+ barton is the way to go (like MisterAnarchy said). Cyrus is selling that P4 1.8GHZ Here - just incase your still interesed. Nvidia Ti series are good on price Ti4200 @ €113 for 64mb , other than the Ti series i would go for ATI - 9600 Pro is a very good card.

Best of luck with your system, LOKI

JackKelly

thanks again,again for the help from all of you.

AMD 2.5 only 95 euro!im defo going for that.
could you give a direct link.
I thought that the athlon numbers (2600 etc) referred directly to the ghz (eg.2600 = 2.6ghz) but on the site it says:

AMD Athlon XP2500+ 1.833 GHz 333 MHz bus
Socket A (Barton) processor, 512 kb. OEM


isnt that just a 1.8 processor?
im looking for a 2.4/2.6

<edit> the card im looking at now is :
nVidia GeForce4 Ti4600 128MB DDR AGP Video Card w/TV-Out
from compgeeks.com

how is it?overclocking?how long till ill need an upgrade


This is what i thinking now:

P4 2.4Ghz 533Bus speed

Maxtor 80GB UDMA/133 7200RPM IDE Hard Drive 2mb Buffer

256MB PC-3200 DDR RAM (x2)

Gainward GeForce4 TI4800SE 128MB DDR 8x AGP Video

No mother board yet

Any comments

MrPinK

I thought that the athlon numbers (2600 etc) referred directly to the ghz (eg.2600 = 2.6ghz) but on the site it says:

AMD Athlon XP2500+ 1.833 GHz 333 MHz bus
Socket A (Barton) processor, 512 kb. OEM


isnt that just a 1.8 processor?
im looking for a 2.4/2.6

AMD have a different chip architecture to Intel. Clock speeds are by no means the only factor in a chip's performance, so you can't use them to accurately compare the two. That's why AMD came up with a new naming system for their chips. The XP2600+ is roughly equivelent to a P4 2.6Ghz, and most probably a damn sight cheaper.

MisterAnarchy

I had a look at Komplett just now and I put together this system.
Basically I think its exactly the type of machine you need
AMD 2500XP CPU
EPoX EP-8RDA+ Mainboard (Recommended by PC Pro magazine )
80Gb Maxtor Drive
52X CD Writer
16X DVD Drive
2x 256 Mb 400Mhz DDR Ram
Radeon 9600 Graphics Card
Modem,Floppy,Case fan.

In relation to the CPU Speeds according to PC Pro magazine a 2500XP is 1% faster than a P4 in its 2D Test.
The P4 is 2% faster in 3D mark.
Do you want to pay twice the price for 2% ?
Here are the links to the items
116590 AMD Athlon XP2500+ 1.833 GHz 333 MHz bus
- Socket A (Barton) processor, 512kb BOXED
107,64
115954 MSI CD recorder IDE 52x/24x/52x
- CR52X. , Internal. 49,83
118715 MSI DVD-spiller IDE 16x/48x (D16) Sort 39,38
113647 Maxtor IDE ATA-133 80GB 7200RPM
- DiamondMax Plus 9 In stock: 86,60
100727 Sony Floppy Drive 3,5" 1,44MB MPF-920
- Floppy Drive, 15,39
113517 TwinMOS PC3200 DDR-DIMM 256MB CL2.5
- Memory 184-P (for DDR-PC400MHz) In stock: 50-99 50,77 101,54
116805 EPoX EP-8RDA+ mainboard Socket A, LAN
- nForce2SPP/MCP-T/Ultra 400,1394,USB2.0 In stock: 50-99 95,77 95,77
119062 Sapphire Radeon 9600 Atlantis 128MB DDR
- AGP, ATI 9600, DVI-I, TV-Out, 131,46
112691 CNET Modem 56k V90/92 Internal PCI
- Conexant chip, with UK cable In stock:
100+ 20,69 20,69
103358 EKL case fan 80x80x25mm
- (12000000006) with 5.25" power plug In stock:
100+ 10,26 10,26
Surcharges: 0,00
Total: 658,56

MisterAnarchy

Review of EPOX Mainboard:
'Packed with perhaps the most overclocker friendly features of any of the NForce2 board at a price point that is just about middle of the pack, the 8RDA+ has established Epox as a force to be dealt with in the high end motherboard market'

Raz

The AMD or Intel question will rage for eons yet. It's a matter of preference and price.

MisterAnarchy setup up there would be a good solid performer.
One plus is that it's all from one site (Komplett again) which means you'll only be paying one shipping fee and they have a support forum right here on boards (community > commercial interaction > Komplett) and DHL have a sub-forum there aswell.
It's one of the reasons why I always suggest them.

If you want to go for a money saver as you say then the AMD is the only way to go. In regards to price it knocks spots off the Intel.
The motherboard mentioned above has plenty of nice features.
It has ATA 133 for hard drives and it takes USb 2.0.
It doesn't support Dual DDR and it's FSB is 333MHz. Second fastest on the market at the moment.
These are the kind of things you'll be cutting back on if you want to save money. Either way that board won't need to be upgraded for the next 2 years and even then it wouldn't be lagging too far behind.
It does support pc3200 RAM and it has 6 PCI slots and an 8x AGP slot. (Motherboard )
Here's an XP 2500+ . It's the boxed version. You could get the OEM (bulk) version but it won't have a heasink with it. Seeing as you don't already have an AMD you'd be best off getting the boxed one.
The hard drive MisterAnarchy has selected is ATA 133 aswell so you'll get the best performance from it with the motherboard.
The RAM that Anarchy selected is the CL2.5 version. The CL2 Version is €18 more expensive per module. If you save on the CPU and motherboard though, maybe you could afford that.

Have you given up on the idea of a case or have you got one in mind already?

JackKelly

ok AMD sounds good,i dont doubt what you are saying but why do the AMD 2600 chips say 1.8ghz beside them (on kmplett anyway) . as long as AMD 2600 almost = P4 2.6,i'll definitely buy them.

yeah those prices on komplett look good.

I seem to be overlooking what im getting! All these specs equal a really good pc! Im i right in saying that with a good video card, i should be able to play anything out at the moment at full detail and speed?

How are all those parts for overclocking.

Can anyone give me an opinion on:

Gainward GeForce4 TI4800SE 128MB DDR 8x AGP Video

How long will i get out of it before i need an upgrade?

oh, btw i have decided on a case, the one from Marx computers.Its under special offers and is about half way down the page. (has a blue light!)

MisterAnarchy

Athlon processors use a multistage pipelining process which can process many instructions at the same time using a 1.8Ghz clock for the 2500XP.
QuantiSpeed architecture is a nine-issue, superscalar, fully-pipelined core. This provides more pathways to feed application instructions into the execution engines of the core, simply allowing the processor to complete more work in a given clock cycle
The P4 is a single stage process with a higher clock frequency of 2.53Ghz.Essentially no pipelining,unless hyperthreading,I think.
Hence the no of operations per sec is similar for both processors.
Got it ?

Raz

I know an Irish retailer that should have that case.
JJ Computers
Well that's only if Marx arn't Irish. JJ Computers are based in Louth if that's any use to you. They don't take credit cards yet though. If you send an e-mail to them asking about the case they'll let you know if they still have it. I'd describe it as a Codegen case with a window and a blue cathode lamp.
I know these people personally.
I'll stop the sale now

With a good video card I'd say yes, you would be able to run any game at full spec. If you were ever having trouble running a game I'd say it would be the graphics card that was holding you back. It's the GFX card that does most of the work for these high spec games.

With a card like this,
Gainward GeForce4 TI4800SE 128MB DDR 8x AGP Video
I'd say you'd be comfortably running games for at least 2 years before you even thought about an upgrade. Probably longer considering the spec of the motherboard which can take full advantage of the cards capabilities.

Cyrus

get a rad 9500/9600 pro over the ti4800 much better cards

JackKelly

"Athlon processors use a multistage pipelining process which can process many instructions at the same time using a 1.8Ghz clock for the 2500XP.
QuantiSpeed architecture is a nine-issue, superscalar, fully-pipelined core. This provides more pathways to feed application instructions into the execution engines of the core, simply allowing the processor to complete more work in a given clock cycle
The P4 is a single stage process with a higher clock frequency of 2.53Ghz.Essentially no pipelining,unless hyperthreading,I think.
Hence the no of operations per sec is similar for both processors.
Got it ?"

Easy as that,eh!?

i see what you mean though. Same operations per second. So i won't be losing any performance? Thats good. Jees i've learnt a lot since starting this topic.

hmmm,Radeon 9600 pro is expensive (€200)
i suppose i will shell out on it, its important.

Have a look at this site
http://www.xoxide.com

it has some cool mods. (lights,fans,decals etc.)
very boy racer!

MrPinK

Actually, the P4 has a monster of a pipeline, 20 stages long. That's how they can get such high clock speeds

JackKelly

damnit mrpink!, your making me unsure again.
someone just tell me
2600 AMD almost if not as good as P4 2.6

is buying a bulk (OEM) processor a bad idea.


BTW, any other modding sites closer to home (english maybe)