seamus brennan

Cork

Originally posted by sceptre
Airlines. Or a lack of custom. I took one of the last Virgin Express flights from Shannon to Gatwick. There were seven other people on the plane, including two flight attendants and (presumably) two people in the cockpit. Even the lure of cheap flights wasn't enough for them to keep the service going as people didn't seem to be taking them. Same thing when I flew on the same route a few months earlier.

Virgin Express is no Ryanair. Even in the UK - Virgin Express is been beaten by Ryanair. Virgin Express does do differant routes and they do fly to the US. Ryanair do probably offer lower average fares than Virgin Express. I is very difficult to take Virgin Express experience as a hard and fast rule.

Many people from the regions are forced to travel to Dublin to get flights. Aer Arann & Jet Magic are flying out of Cork successfully. But as a person living outside Dublin - We need to have the choice to use the facility that is there. Cork Airport is not being utilised.

Why do people have to go to Dublin to get a good value fare to the UK?

gandalf

Cork thats it keep harping the party line. I actually don't know why people engage in discussions with you. The break up of Aer Rianta will mean one thing, the Airport with the larger catchment area will get the lions share of flights. Now can anyone take a guess where that is PING yes its Dublin. Michael O'Leary is probably delighted because he can now badger lower prices for landing fees in Dublin. I can guarantee you if Ryanair do not fill flights they will have no issues in cancelling the service from whatever airport.

I can't wait to see people of your ilk whinging in a few years time when Cork and especially Shannon are going down the tubes. Then you'll be whinging for government handouts to keep the airports going something that "big bad" Dublin Airport is doing for those Airports now. Then you'll put your "wasting tax payers money" arguements on the back boiler.

The only thing that will come out of this is better profits for Ryanair and more FF cronies on more unnecessary Semi State boards and your supporting this Cork.

As for Seamus Brennen he's been a TD in my area since I've had the vote and he is useless, promises the earth moon and stars and delivers nothing. The only bit of direct contact I've had with him has shown him up to be arrogant and dismissive and not at leader material.

Gandalf.

sceptre

Originally posted by Cork
Virgin Express is no Ryanair. Even in the UK - Virgin Express is been beaten by Ryanair. Virgin Express does do differant routes and they do fly to the US. Ryanair do probably offer lower average fares than Virgin Express. I is very difficult to take Virgin Express experience as a hard and fast rule.

Many people from the regions are forced to travel to Dublin to get flights. Aer Arann & Jet Magic are flying out of Cork successfully. But as a person living outside Dublin - We need to have the choice to use the facility that is there. Cork Airport is not being utilised.

Missing the point completely I'm afraid. Waste of time trying to explain it a second time so I won't.

Try not to base a line of reasoning on the word "probably". These days, Ryanair and VE are going for different markets. At the time, your "probably" was incorrrect.

Meanwhile Virgin Express don't fly to the US. As a matter of fact they don't fly anywhere outside the EU. You're getting a little confused again. Virgin Atlantic !=Virgin Express (two different companies, like Virgin Megastores and V2 Records). I could list out a number of regional routes only kept flying by the government per passenger subsidy but most people who chose to post in this thread because they knew what they were talking about will be aware of this.

Why do people have to go to Dublin to get a good value fare to the UK?

Read back up the page - a few different people have answered this one already.

Magaly Dado

Plagurism by me but it was good from AAM..........

I hear that the project manager was advised to stand downhill of Mini Brennan and stoop, so that Mini wouldn't look quite so Mini in the picture from today's Irish Times.

http://www.ireland.com/ITImage/urlpicture_id_1058309887968_20030716/frontpage_tunnel,0.jpg

Maybe that's the new strategy for solving the tunnel height problem - Photograph the tunnel beside Mini Brennan so it looks twice it's real height.

Cork

Originally posted by gandalf
The break up of Aer Rianta will mean one thing, the Airport with the larger catchment area will get the lions share of flights.
Gandalf.

This will happen. I agree with you 100% on this point. But Dublin airport is already getting "the lions share of flights" and it is already making pretty good profits into the bargain.

But the down side we are not getting the airlines into Cork. Budget Airlines will be attracted on price. There is a good centre of population in both the Cork and Mid-West Regions. So, there is demand there. I don't think people outside Dublin use airports less than those living in the capital.

I don't think that a strong Dublin subsidising a weak Cork & Shannon is the answer. We will get a strong Dublin & airports in Shannon & Cork that will offer more services to the people of the regions.

I don't know Mr. Brennan - but a solution has got to be found to encourage more airlines into our airports. Shannon & Farranfore were competing for the Ryanair German route recently - Farranfore won.

I think that decisions effecting Shannon should be made in Shannon. I think Aer Rianta has not done a good job with either Shannon or Cork. Mr. Brennan was faced with a choice:

Let Shannon, Cork & Dublin have seperate boards or retain the status quo.

He is still in negottiation with the unions so nothing as of yet is cast in stone. His plans for Aer Rianta may be revised if the Unions come up with alternative ideas. But I am sure, the status quo of little choice in both Cork & Shannon needs change big time.

Victor

The following is not a flame, it's a statement of fact.

Originally posted by Cork
Cork has a hinterland. So has the Mid-West. The people of these areas deserve flights.

You are actually certifiably stupid, aren't you?

hub <networking> (By analogy with the hub of a wheel) A device
connected to several other devices.

Airport Hubs are in the centre of networks, not at the edge. The idea is to allow large numbers of flights to land at an intermediate place and let passengers change planes to go to a destination other than that of their original plane. This and the corresponding high occupancy rates (not low frills) is what makes modern airlines truely cost efficient. However, these hubs need to be central to acheive maximum efficiency. There is no use flying from Belfast to Cork, only to then fly back to Glasgow.

This is why Dublin has developed as a hub for Ireland-Europe flights and Shannon for North America-Europe/Mid-East flights - because they are midway.

While Cork Airport could operate as a hub, it would need transatlantic flights to do so. At 2100m the main runway in Cork is too short for all but the most lightly loaded Boeing747 and similar aircraft.

Honestly Cork, you let the name down.

Originally posted by gandalf
As for Seamus Brennen he's been a TD in my area since I've had the vote and he is useless, promises the earth moon and stars and delivers nothing. The only bit of direct contact I've had with him has shown him up to be arrogant and dismissive and not at leader material.

But didn't he deliver the Dundrum Bypass (and screw the entire area)?

gandalf

Originally posted by Victor
But didn't he deliver the Dundrum Bypass (and screw the entire area)?

I think you'll find that the M50 and all associated roads have been in the planning stage for 20 years. Mini Seamus was just in the right place for a road opening.

And yes it has buggered traffic up totally in Dundrum/Ballinteer ah well its moves onto Carrickmines soon !!

Gandalf.

Cork

Airport Hubs are in the centre of networks, not at the edge

Dublin is pretty much on the eastern edge of Ireland. Dublin Airport seems to be suffering from congestion. There is even talk of a private second terminal to improve metters at Dublin airport.

Ryanair fly to Hahn. It is near Frankfurt. It is not a very big airport. Could Ryanair do the same for either Cork or Shannon? Could Ryanair bring plane loads of tourists into the Region? Could they give choice to the consumers of Cork & the Mid-West?

I can't put my hand on my heart and answer these questions unequivically. But by setting up indepdent boards - It might work out well.

Is it better to try & fail than not to try at all. Cork & Shannon airports need to offer it's owners (the citizens of Ireland) more flights. Organisations need to be consumer driven.

This might be seen as a very Pro government stance. But it is one of conviction seeing many people having to travel to Dublin to get flights over to our neighbouring island. Something genuine has to be done for these people. The same goes for CIE. The train service is subsidised. Yet why is there no rail link from Limerick to Sligo? If you live outside a defined area in this country - are you expected to accept less public services?

I know I am harping on - Are Dublin people even happy at the war Aer Rianta are running Dublin Airport?

Is splitting Aer Rianta the answer? Maybe.

Victor

Originally posted by Cork
Dublin is pretty much on the eastern edge of Ireland. Dublin Airport seems to be suffering from congestion. There is even talk of a private second terminal to improve metters at Dublin airport. Ryanair fly to Hahn. It is near Frankfurt. It is not a very big airport. Could Ryanair do the same for either Cork or Shannon? Could Ryanair bring plane loads of tourists into the Region? Could they give choice to the consumers of Cork & the Mid-West?

After all that, you still haven't explained how you intend to use Cork as a hub?

Originally posted by Cork
Yet why is there no rail link from Limerick to Sligo?

Yes, there is, the problem is there was insuffiecient people to use it and those that were there didn't.

Originally posted by Cork
I know I am harping on - Are Dublin people even happy at the war Aer Rianta are running Dublin Airport?

I thought they were running the "war" from Shannon, not Dublin.

tendofan

I don't have a car, so I'm stuck to using public transport in Dublin, and I have several concerns about the proposed privatisation of the bus routes.

I don't object in theory to the privatisation, but where I am concerned is in how it's going to affect the users of the service, particularly in cases where a person may have to make two separate bus journeys to reach their destination.

If both legs of the journey are provided by different operators, what is the chance of having an integrated ticketing system? Ideally, one would be able to purchase a ticket which would be usable on bus, DART and Luas, in whatever combination one would choose - kind of like a super Rambler ticket. I doubt that with multiple operators such a system could be agreed upon.

Whatever about Brennan's ideological predispositions I'm very doubtful that the impact on the consumer has really been thought through.

Tendofan

Cork

Competition on the bus routes accross Europe has worked. Competition on train networks have not. There was a big article in the Irish Times last week on this.

Monopolies are often not the most efficent. When you have only one provider of a service. That provider has undue power.

Competition on bus routes will lead to improved levels of service for the customer.

mike65

Article in the Sunday Tribune noted that the Nordic countires have a mix of private and state run mass transit companies and they rub along perfectly well, but I suppose the nay sayers would
note that systems tend to work proberly in other counties.

Mike.

sceptre

Originally posted by Cork
Competition on the bus routes accross Europe has worked. Competition on train networks have not. There was a big article in the Irish Times last week on this.

Of course the train network "competition" hasn't worked. Why? Because there's no competition. What has been introduced across Europe with regard to the train networks is a system of regionalised monopolies. Want to get from London to Norwich by train? There's only one operator. That's not competition. You can get from New York to Rio via Qantas as well but you have to fly via Sydney to do it. NTL and Chorus aren't in competition for customers, neither are Wagn and Scottish Trains.

Same principle applies to the buses. If there's only one operator on a route or region, it's not competition.

Obviously there's an element of competition in the UK and the rest of Europe between the bus services and train services, but well, you didn't bring that up because you didn't think of it.

Victor

Originally posted by tendofan
If both legs of the journey are provided by different operators, what is the chance of having an integrated ticketing system? Ideally, one would be able to purchase a ticket which would be usable on bus, DART and Luas, in whatever combination one would choose - kind of like a super Rambler ticket. I doubt that with multiple operators such a system could be agreed upon.

Integrated ticketing is something the RPA have been working on for a year. As Connex have a fixed contract, they will not be charging passengers themselves, but may be ticket agents of the RPA / some new agency.

tendofan

In reply to my original post Victor wrote.

<quote>
Integrated ticketing is something the RPA have been working on for a year. As Connex have a fixed contract, they will not be charging passengers themselves, but may be ticket agents of the RPA / some new agency.
</quote>

If it's going to work like that then I'm all for it - hopefully the proposed privatisation of bus routes will work in a similar fashion.

Tendofan

ZENER

Cork:

You make some interesting statements and some ignorant one's. It has been stated several time in this thread with regards to people travelling to Dublin to fly to UK - this is not Aer Rianta's fault.

Airlines are not interested in flying from Cork or Shannon Airports because they are not financially viable and Ryanair would see them off by underpricing them from Dublin which would make it better value for passangers to travel from Cork to Dublin. Ryanair bullied Shannon Airport into providing facilities at unprofitable prices in order to get business - Ryanair then showed these prices to a regional airport and got a deal there, this airport barely makes ends met today.

If for example Go Airlines started a route to Edinburgh from Cork, Ryanair would start a route in paralell. They would drop the price to a silly level and price GO out of the market. Think this is silly . . this happened to GO in Dublin . . Ryanair subsequently reduced the service and increased the price. This is why Airlines are reluctant to come into the smaller Airports in Ireland. Ryanair are doing their utmost to make themselves a MANOPOLY in low fares providers.

Also CORK who will put up the 140 Million Euro for the extension to Corks main terminal if Aer Rianta folds ?? You haven't thought this through have you CORK ??

Tinky

bonkey

what is this? Dig-up-an-obscure-old-thread Day or something?

jc

p.s. There is an integrated ticket system about to be put in operation here in Bern for the multitude of seperate urban transit companies. There's no technical reason it couldn't be done elsewhere.