Weapons Expects death: Are Tony Blairs days numbered

gandalf

Some very disturbing goings on over in the UK at the moment regarding the Death of Doctor Kelly the man that was accused by No.10 of talking to the BBC journalist Andrew Gilligan about the "sexed up" Iraq weapons dossier.

Depending on the full story and situation regarding his death Tony Blair could find himself in a very difficult position. I reckon his days could even be numbered at this stage, what does everyone else think?

Gandalf.

mike65

Blairs been in trouble for a while now having put so much store in WDM. The death Of Dr David Kelly is of course subject to
the coroners report but unless he fell over and banged his head or died of a heart attack he was going to have anyway its looking like Blairs Waterloo.

Mike.

dathi1

I don't think Blair's days are numbered. He will undoubtedly spin his way out if this crisis. I think his expressed feelings of sadness at the death of the MOD official carry about as much resonance as his feelings on daily Iraqi civilian casualties at the behest of his egotististical war of occupation and a place in history.
Its been all downhill sine he lambasted the million marchers in London.

shotamoose

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3079787.stm

The BBC is reporting that he killed himself, or at least that's the obvious conclusion to be drawn from the evidence at the scene - cut wrists, painkillers nearby.

First of all this is a real tragedy for Dr Kelly and his family, and speculating on the political ramifications seems totally tasteless but everyone's doing it anyway. Seems to me that you can't pin the blame on any particular actor in the whole thing - most people who had been through what Kelly had been through - and it did seem to be mostly over for him - would not go so far as to kill themselves. I do think the Ministry of Defence acted recklessly in simply telling the media that they thought he was the mole, though. The MoD will probably try to imply that the supposedly harsh questioning of the MPs' committee somehow drove him to do it, though I think that's fairly absurd.

DMC

Spot on piece by Hugo Young in the Guardian today sums it up for me.

"The 45-minute detail was hyped by Tony Blair into the essence of the foulest charge against his sainted integrity, and therefore had to be squashed by every means. The smell that's left behind is even more odious: that of a state - executive and parliament combined - willing to abandon all sense of proportion to score political points against its critics."

I dont feel its tasteless to comment on who should go in this row. A man has died because someone pushed him into the limelight where he didn't have to be. As Hugo Young said above, he was only pushed so the saintlyhood of Alister Campbell and Tony Blair can be preserved. Interesting to note that the MP who questioned David Kelly the hardest, calling him a chaff and a fall guy, has sent his condolences to his family, and hopes his questioning didnt affect him to this extent.

There is a lot more to come.. thats for sure.

shotamoose

Hugo Young is being very sly indeed in that article, slipping in the phrase "by every means" as if to imply that Alistair Campbell took out a contract on Kelly's life. I just think this will get blown out of proportion by people gunning for Blair and co. I don't like Blair at all and I think his conduct over the war and the WMD claims has generally been appalling, but I don't think he is responsible when someone commits suicide as a result of a brief period in the media spotlight.

Surely since the "sexing up" controversy started a number of weeks back,the BBC could have provided proof other than one source for the allegation that was being made.
They are as responsible as anyone else for putting this poor man under the pressure that he was, ultimately leading to his suicide.

The poor man was left to suffer in a battle of ego's between Campbell and the BBC.
The latter in my opinion should have left sensationalism aside and provided us with more than hearsay or one un named source for the story.
If they did, the poor man in question might not have gone over the edge , with that pressure.
mm

Ping Chow Chi

It cuts both ways - Mr Blair included the '45 minutes' on the back of one un-collaborated source, and gave it prominence at the start of the ' un-dodgy Dossier'

Now if he can do that as one of his major justifications on going to war, then the BBC can report that one source claimed that that dossier was sex'ed up.

To be honest, with the plagiarised dossier, the forged nuclear papers and this absurd 45 minutes claim, it is no wonder Mr. Blair is trying to change the justification for war.

Paddy20

As far as I am aware. Tony Blair would have resigned a long time ago but for his total dedication too reaching a final resolution of the Northern Ireland conflict.

His Donegal/Ballyshannon family roots are very strong and I believe that our current reasonably peaceful atmosphere and the enormous progress that has been made in relation too a final peaceful resolution of the conflict is in no small measure due to Tony Blairs basic humanitarian instincts, even though he is well aware that he may well have sown the seeds of destruction in relation to his political career, but I would rather have him as British Prime Minister than Thatcher* or any of the current alternatives.

As for the untimely and totally tragic untimely death of Mr Kelly. I doubt if Tony Blair really knows as yet the full facts and until the truth emerges, which I doubt it will. Then none of us has the right to point the finger of blame at Mr Tony Blair.

So think on, and be careful what you wish for as you might just get more than you bargained for?..

At this time, my sympathies go out too Mr Kellys immediate family and all his relations. May he rest in peace.

Paddy20.

sixtysix

Dr Kelly was uses and abused in life and now in his death he is also being used and abused. it is grotesque to watch.
may he rest in peace

mike65

Comments here from BBC news website -
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/talking_point/3077395.stm
Many belive the BBC has questions to answer as well as the government. Its not been a good story for Auntie who decided it was going to face off against No 10 regardless of the fallout.

Mike.

dahamsta

I've had a couple of comments and questions from the parliamentary committee quoted to me - they struck me as pretty nasty - but haven't seen any on the web, are the transcripts available anywhere or is it classified?

BTW, if we're going to speculate, we might as well also suggest that British Intelligence services staged the whole thing to plug a leak that was going to turn into a flood. I'm being facetious by the way, but it's just as likely or unlikely as some of the suggestions I've seen around the place. More than a little reminiscent of Sky News.

For what it's worth gandalf, I don't think this is enough to topple Tony. I think his enemies are going to need to pull something else out of a hat to pull it off, and I think for it to work, they'll need to do it before this is "settled", for want of a better word. Tony's squirmed his way out of so many things now I think you'd really need a chain to nail him.

What would be the outcome do you think? Brown? I can't see him as PM, although I think there's a fair chance of it happening /at some stage/.

adam

mike65

Originally posted by dahamsta
I've had a couple of comments and questions from the parliamentary committee quoted to me - they struck me as pretty nasty - but haven't seen any on the web, are the transcripts available anywhere or is it classified?

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200203/cmselect/cmfaff/813/813.pdf

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200203/cmselect/cmfaff/uc1025-i/uc102502.htm

BTW, if we're going to speculate, we might as well also suggest that British Intelligence services staged the whole thing to plug a leak that was going to turn into a flood. I'm being facetious by the way, but it's just as likely or unlikely as some of the crap I've seen around the place. More than a little reminiscent of Sky News.

adam

Ah! A Grauniad reader! To wit -
http://politicstalk.guardian.co.uk/WebX?50@54.egDOaryZlve.0@.597a9bde

Mike.

dahamsta

Thanks for that Mike. Yes, I read the Guardian occasionally, mostly on the website. I hadn't seen anything about a suggestion of Kelly being murdered though, I made that up all on my own.

adam

mike65

The BBC have admitted the Dr Kelly was the primary source reporter Andrew Gilligan regarding the dodgy dossier story.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/3081027.stm

I really wish Glenda Jackson would shut up, she looks like a vulture cum greek chorus at the moment.

Mike.

potlatch

A major piece in the Observer today noted two important things:

Firstly, while relatives and friends commented that his public appearance before the select committee made him feel 'physically sick', it's likely that what really rattled him was what went on behind closed doors at the ICC interrogation. Since that is a private inquiry, we may perhaps never know exactly what led him to commit suicide.

Secondly, his final two emails he send to colleagues were telling: while one to the NYtimes hinted at "many dark actors playing games", his other email said that he was looking forward to getting back to Iraq to continue his work.

Someone, or some people, said some things to him that tipped him over the edge and made the whole situation unbearable - was it perhaps a phone call or email he received which no one knows about? Or was it simply that he, himself, lied to protect himself or the inspections programme, which he believed needed to contine and the internal pressure became overwhelming?

I think the key is what happened in the ICC.

It's horrible to speculate about this, I'm truely thoroughly disgusted and saddned by what's happened. A man is dead because of the lies someone else told and even now, politicans like Cambpell et al are still considering the next move as if this was still a chess game. It's even possible that people within the MoD deliberately hung Kelly out to dry because of personal disagreements over intelligence among MoD officials. Geoff Hoon wasn't even present when he was giving evidence to the select committee even though Straw was present for other officials' turns in the hot seat who fell under his portfolio.

Nobody could have forseen this but it nevertheless shows how the engines behind modern politics and the modern news media can have a devastating, destructive effects. I dunno, I hope this provokes some serious soul-searching on all sides of the net that ensnared Dr Kelly.

Tha Gopher

It might be the honourable thing to resign but we must remember that the words honourable and Tony Blair dont go well together.
I couldnt count on my fingers and toes the amount of times I have heard the phrase"the greatest crisis of Blairs political career".Millenium Dome,the fraudster and the flats,the Iraq war revolt and public anger and a whole pile more.The smug idiot always manages to lie his way out of trouble and this will be no exception.He lies constantly at election time and he lies as much while he is in office."Blairs final days"is a tri yearly event by now and he still manages to avoid losing power.
There was talk of him having to quit over the flats.He survived.There was talk of him resigning over the parlimentary revolt over Iraq.He survived.There was serious talk a few weeks ago that he was on the way out because it was becoming increasingly obvious that Iraq most probably had no or else very little banned material.He survived.
The man makes Bertie Ahern and Fianna Fail look honest.


http://vialls.homestead.com/
cant wait to hear his opinion on it.Although to be fair wrist slashing is a strange and painful form of suicide for somebody who was not apparently mentally ill or suffering from long term depression.

potlatch

That says more about the media's penchant for hype than it does about Blair's movement from 'crisis' to 'crisis'. Well, it's a bit of both.

Cork

Originally posted by Tha Gopher
but we must remember that the words honourable and Tony Blair dont go well together

Why?? BBC is a public service broadcaster. It should back up any of the storys it runs with facts. It should also be fair in the presentation of storys. Above all - public service broadcasters need to show balance in the storys it presents.

Has it been proven that Tony Blair has done anything dis-honourable??

I think that media has got to put up or shut up. Eoughan Harris has a very interesting piece in today's Independent about our own public service broadcaster RTE.

I have not yet decided on the BBC Vs Tony Blair. I don't have the facts. Witch Hunts solve nothing.

Sparks

Has it been proven that Tony Blair has done anything dis-honourable??

I don't know if you were around for it Cork (hasn't there been a shower since?) but he backed the US to the hilt over the invasion of Iraq.
How far from honourable were you looking for?

the corporation believed it correctly interpreted and reported the information obtained from Dr Kelly during interviews.

The BBC are in a very awkward position now, in that they have admitted that they put an interpretation on Dr Kellys chat with them.
They ran with the story, and against their usual principles, did not present a shred of other evidence to back up the actual allegation that Mr Campbell had inserted the 45 minute statement.

The BBC of course did not expect Dr Kelly to die, they expected to be able to keep their source a secret and therefore ride out the storm.
Tony Blairs position in this saga has been strenghtened by the events of the last two days not weakened, now that the BBC have had to own up to their source out of respect for this poor mans family.
I note that Dr Kellys local conservative mp is calling for heads to roll at the BBC on account of their "appalling conduct".
It is unfortunate that the BBC should have allowed this to happen at all and is out of character for them, in terms of the usual high quality of their reporting.
mm

mike65

The Beebs chief political correspondent Andrew Marr says
news management has some questions to answer and if he says that, then its the case. At least they (the BBC) are'nt trying to
shrug this off though the suits must be feeling a bit queasy
at the hostile reaction of many viewers/listeners.

Mike.

Sparks

The bbeb are running an interesting article on how this is being perceived in the Middle East:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3082203.stm

mike65

Part of the "delightful" culture of the middle-eastern/Islamic
world is that everyone including the dogs in the street has a conspiracy theory on everything!

Mike.

Sparks

That's not just islamic or arabic culture y'know mike