ESB to go live with Power Line trial

Mr_Man

Pardon the pun but according to the SBP to-day the ESB plan to go live in the next six weeks with trials of the Power line technology. The trial is being partly sponsored by the gubmt, so hopefully we'll get more out of it than we did with the money we threw at Eircon and Esat.

M.

Moriarty

Couldnt find the article on their site, so ive typed it out. Please excuse the odd typo

ESB tests power socket internet technology
by Gavin Daly

Communications Minister Dermot Ahern has finalised plans to trial technology that delivers an internet connection through power sockets. A spokeman for the minister said a pilot project would start within six weeks.

He said the pilot would be part-funded by the Department of Communications, Marine and Natural Resources in conjunction with the ESB. The department will begin immediately to select locations for the pilot project.

"It will be very intresting to see how the technology operates," the spokesman said. The ESB is understood to be very keen to test the technology, which could yield it substantial revenues.

So-called power line technology is already on trial in Britain, Germany and the US. The technology uses existing electricty wires to connect customers to the internet and rules out the need to lay expensive fibre-optic cable.

It is considered particularly attractive in remote areas, where it is uneconomic for telcos to invest.

Electricity wires are made of the same raw materials as phone wires, and proponents of the technology claim earlier interference problems have been cured.

The new technology could offer direct competition - and a huge challenge - to recent high-speed internet offerings from Eircom and other teclos such as EsatBT and UTVInternet.

Ahern has been a strong advocate of the need for broadband internet and plans to impose a levy on telcos to fund broadband for schools. A report published by the Telecoms Strategy Group last week estimated there could be up to 179,000 subscribers for broadband services in Ireland.

The report said telcos and government should agree on 'trigger points' for the delivery of high-speed internet to the regions. In Britain, BT has set trigger points, agreeing to provide broadband to localities where a certain number of customers have expressed an intrest in the service.

Moriarty

All in all, this looks like a rather intresting development. Have any of the committee been in touch with the ESB? If not, would now not be the time to approach them to talk over a few things?

I wonder how long the trial is scheduled to run and how extensive it will be..

Paddy20

Great!, The ESB are the only people that I am aware of who are in the position to pull the - last mile stranglehold - away from Eircoms dirty rat.

It has been rumoured in Donegal for some considerable time that the ESB were planning the introduction of an ESB ducting Internet or direct optical fibre telecommunications service, and that they have already quietly laid down considerable amounts of fibre optic connections directly in to new housing developments.

About one year ago, I e-mailed the ESB Public relations department asking if they could please confim if the above rumours had any substance. No reply or even an acknowledgment of my enquiry was ever received. This of course indicates that the ESB are well advanced and ready to go with some type of offering?.. and goodluck to them.

Paddy20;)

Nuphor

About one year ago, I e-mailed the ESB Public relations department asking if they could please confim if the above rumours had any substance. No reply or even an acknowledgment of my enquiry was ever received. This of course indicates that the ESB are well advanced and ready to go with some type of offering

_Or_ it could indicate that they didn't reply to your email.

Interesting news nonetheless. Say, how exactly does this sort of infrastructure work? Are "cabinets" placed about the place like exchanges, or are boosters in place or what? And does it depend as much on distance?

I'll have a read around...

BigEejit

heh .. all the powerline broadband threads that have been on boards before always came to abrupt ends when someone or other stated that there is definitely, positively, absolutely no way that the ESB would do this ... I hope they dont take two years to do the trial like €ircon did with dsl ... they could offer broadband to all the areas that €ircon dont think have enough people ... as well as all the areas that €ircon have upgraded ...

they have the backbone as well dont they .. hmm, might be that the ESB will be looking for some IT types if theyre going to be an ISP ...

OR .. boards.ie as the ISP?

I just had another thought .. the smell of sh1t in pants in €ircon HQ might well be fairly strong tomorrow

dahamsta

Eircom will have known about this for some time BigEejit.

adam

spongebob

Originally posted by Paddy20
It has been rumoured in Donegal for some considerable time that the ESB were planning the introduction of an ESB ducting Internet or direct optical fibre telecommunications service,.

About one year ago, I e-mailed the ESB Public relations department asking if they could please confim if the above rumours had any substance.
Paddy20;)

Not a rumour Paddy, here it is on their own website Donegal To Get Fibre By October 2003 .... ESB

That would include other areas too, its called the Northern Ring Project ....

Ask their head of PR about the missing email (and an official comment on the story) eoin.oneachtain@mail.esb.ie ISTR or tadhg.odonoghue@mail.esb.ie ...Tadhg being the head cook and bottle washer ...the Chairman or padraig.mcmanus@mail.esb.ie who is the Chief Executive. If they ask you to treat the reply in confidence then PM me the info ....I hear that Dinegal is in with a shout but that there are 2 other candidate areas.

Do avoid CCing them, that would diminish your chances of getting a reply

M

Urban Weigl

Originally posted by Mr_Man
ESB plan to go live in the next six weeks with trials of the Power line technology.

Anyone happen to know vendor they are going to use?

SkepticOne

Originally posted by BigEejit
heh .. all the powerline broadband threads that have been on boards before always came to abrupt ends when someone or other stated that there is definitely, positively, absolutely no way that the ESB would do this ... I hope they dont take two years to do the trial like €ircon did with dsl ... they could offer broadband to all the areas that €ircon dont think have enough people ... as well as all the areas that €ircon have upgraded ...

The main reason they ended was that they were normally speculation around some article about the ESBs regional fibre project which is a separate thing.

I blame the use of the word 'broadband' in Ireland to apply to every form of modern communications technology. It clashes with the common usage of the word (DSL, cable internet, etc) and causes huge confusion.

The articles about the ESB's fibre projects always used phrases like "ESB bringing broadband to the regions", etc., when in fact they were merely laying fibre infrastructure.

There have been, however, more recent articles talking about powerline broadband.

andrew163

would anyone happen to know where the trial is being held?

*prays* pleasesaydublin15pleasesaydublin15pleasesaydublin15pleasesaydublin15pleasesaydublin15

SkepticOne

I would say it will probably be in Dublin 6W. This would complement the existing services provided by NTL cable modems, Eircom, Esat, Irish Broadband, Leap and IrishWisp.

Another choice would be Dublin 24.

andrew163

Originally posted by SkepticOne
I would say it will probably be in Dublin 6W. This would complement the existing services provided by NTL cable modems, Eircom, Esat, Irish Broadband, Leap and IrishWisp.

Another choice would be Dublin 24.

if that happens, I will personally stroll into Dermot Ahern's office and hit him. :ninja:

Stonemason

I also fired off some E-mails some months back but never received a replies but I had a feeling something like this was brewing. More telling I feel is that Mr. Ahern has finally realized that Eircon are not going to move unless severely pushed unfortunately for him it’s a private company and as we have all seen the legal minefield surrounding anything Eircom is a nightmare they can appeal refute and generally tie things up so that nothing happens for years.

At least with a state owned company he can push things along allot quicker it also helps (sneaking suspicion here) that the ESB are progressive enough to have wanted this for some time though their official stance has been we don’t want to get involved on the ISP side of things. I feel that considering how many homes they reach they would have to be either bad business men or completely barmy not to have thought of the profits to be made from a venture like this.

I also think that considering how much they have spent on laying fibre they are probably a little miffed that they cant get customers on it mainly because of Eircoms strangle hold on the last mile.


PS If any ESB bods are reading this I would be willing nay I feel its my duty for the sake of Ireland to offer my services as a ginneapig

thegills

I also think that considering how much they have spent on laying fibre they are probably a little miffed that they cant get customers on it mainly because of Eircoms strangle hold on the last mile.

There seems to be a general mis-understanding of what fibre infrastructure ESBT have built. True they have wrapped fibre around their high voltage overhead network but in most cases this fibre terminates in a sub-station miles away from population centres; 38kV overheads are then used to deliver electricity into these population centres. They have only built a handful of POP's in these sub-stations so are limited in ways that they can interface with their overhead fibre. They are looking at wrapping on 38Kv to get into the towns but are mostly relying on the Broadband MAN projects for this purpose. I can't see how they will be trialling in 6 weeks unless they do it independent of the fibre n/w's

They are recruiting for their NOC atm afaik.

thegills

spongebob

On this map on the ESB site Here you will see the lines that TheGills mentioned (NOT the red ones)

The fibre network is wrapped around certain of the Blue and Black lines to make a figure of 8 around the country. They all 'cross' in Lanesboro Co. Roscommon , the red square on the map north of Athlone.

Very few of these lines make it to the west coast and none make it to an island....this would mean that an extra fibre wrap would have to be carried out along a 38Kv line (not on the map) with breakout to copper at some local transformer station and into your premises.

The technology is being extensively trialled in the US as well, some of the early (and unsuccesful) trials were in Europe 3 or 4 years ago. Lessons learnt have been transformed into product and we are now heading for scale production...where the price drops dramatically.

The Power Line owners are nowhere near as skint as the telcos ..... so they could afford it. There is an interesting article here on the Power Line Association Website which is a US trade association type site. It appears to be constrained to about 1.5Mbit max. This makes us drool here in Ireland but the Japanese would never consider deploying such primitive technology.

A more Eurocentric Association has its website Here , would someone sign up to it and see if the ESB have already joined? <cough>

M

tomk

No, ESB are not on the members list there, nor are they listed at PLCforum, another Euro-based organisation dealing with PLC.

Stonemason

From my understanding of this post they are talking about feeding net access down your standard power line that terminates at your wall sockets not the fiber network(though this could be used for backhaul) as stated they have been wrapping arround these wires.The problem is that though they have a fiber network now in place they wont be able to sell the bandwidth to smaller telecos as they say they planned simply because unless these company go wireless they would still have to use Eircons last mile of copper to get into peoples homes.Unsuprisingly not many people seem interested in taking advantage of ESB,s network while Eircon still manage to hold everyone to ransom with the affore mention last mile priceings.


Put as simpley as i see it the fiber network exists (if finished)this fiber was never ment to go to peoples doors it was designed for the sole purpose of being a high speed backbone from which telcos could tapp into .Telcos would then bridge the gap between the ESB fiber network and the home or business customer via two possible means 1.Wireless and 2.Eircoms copper wire.Sadly it seems no one is intersted in going Wireless in rural areas where it would be most benifical.And no one seems to be stupid enough to base a busines plan on the uncertain and over priced wims of Eircom.

spongebob

Originally posted by Stonemason
Telcos would then bridge the gap between the ESB fiber network and the home or business customer via two possible means 1.Wireless and 2.Eircoms copper wire.Sadly it seems no one is intersted in going Wireless in rural areas where it would be most benifical.And no one seems to be stupid enough to base a busines plan on the uncertain and over priced wims of Eircom.

1.Wireless and
2.Eircoms copper wire.

and also ..now coming on trial

3. ESB Copper . The power line option

There is a lot of interest in Rural Wireless, not just here but in Comreg and elsewhere.

You are right about bizniss plans and Eircom ....until the LLU court case is over anyway, that would be next year some time.

M

Capt'n Midnight

The ESB have enough pylons and poles to run wireless - but for various reasons (inc legal) that's not going to happen.

In theory the ESB could also run fibre / BB copper to each new home if they wanted to or were let.. eg: 10,000 houses in Adamstown...

And the ESB do have a slightly higher approval rating than the telco's ....

ESB copper €7 pm
NTL copper ~€15 (And this includes payments to the TV stations)
Eircom copper €22.50 (and they are looking for 25% more)

spongebob

you real sure they wont ask for 3.5Ghz spectrum Capn?

OHP

Friday 31st January 2003 - The Minister for Communications Marine and Natural Resources, Dermot Ahern TD, today launched the ESB Fibre Optic Broadband network. At a ceremony in Limerick, Minister Ahern switched on the "southern loop" of the network which links Dublin to Limerick, Cork and Waterford. The network which is being extended to cover the whole country will provide broadband access across Ireland.

Switching on the network Minister Ahern congratulated the ESB for adding to the telecommunications infrastructure in Ireland, "We must recognise the vision of the Board of ESB in the development of such a comprehensive fibre optic network. The company's capital outlay on this network is a measure of that vision".

ESB Chairman, Tadhg O Donoghue said the installation of the broadband network is a continuation of ESB's commitment to Irish society, "As a company ESB has a proud history of public service over the past 75 years. It is a story of partnership, innovation and expansion. Todays development represents an exciting advance in the provision of broadband infrastructure in Ireland".

The Fibre Optic network will be completed by the Autumn of this year providing broadband access in a figure of eight around the country from Buncrana in Co Donegal to Cork.

The network consists of 48 fibres (24 pairs, each pair capable of delivering 2.5GB.) wrapped around the ESB's high voltage network. This is one of the quickest and most cost effective ways of delivering a fibre optic network. The technology has been used extensively in Europe and has proven to be up to 10 times more reliable than equivalent underground networks.

ESB telecoms will operate as "a carriers carrier" providing a number of access packages for telecommunications companies and other businesses requiring broadband access.

The ESB network is the first service to offer a uniform bandwidth across the country.
=============================================
Link here:
http://www.esb.ie/main/news_events/press_release186.jsp

OHP

Paddy20

OHP,

Sheer magic, I do not have the time just know to read the link to the ESB/release announcement, but I am taking your post as it is, a real honest to goodness eye opener for this individual, a I had not read this info in real black and white print before!. Probably, something to do with the fact that I no longer buy or read newspapers.

You not only have made my day. You have made my YEAR?..

Great:)

Paddy20.

andrew163

Originally posted by OHP
Friday 31st January 2003 - The Minister for Communications Marine and Natural Resources, Dermot Ahern TD, today launched the ESB Fibre Optic Broadband network. At a ceremony in Limerick, Minister Ahern switched on the "southern loop" of the network which links Dublin to Limerick, Cork and Waterford. The network which is being extended to cover the whole country will provide broadband access across Ireland.

Switching on the network Minister Ahern congratulated the ESB for adding to the telecommunications infrastructure in Ireland, "We must recognise the vision of the Board of ESB in the development of such a comprehensive fibre optic network. The company's capital outlay on this network is a measure of that vision".

ESB Chairman, Tadhg O Donoghue said the installation of the broadband network is a continuation of ESB's commitment to Irish society, "As a company ESB has a proud history of public service over the past 75 years. It is a story of partnership, innovation and expansion. Todays development represents an exciting advance in the provision of broadband infrastructure in Ireland".

The Fibre Optic network will be completed by the Autumn of this year providing broadband access in a figure of eight around the country from Buncrana in Co Donegal to Cork.

The network consists of 48 fibres (24 pairs, each pair capable of delivering 2.5GB.) wrapped around the ESB's high voltage network. This is one of the quickest and most cost effective ways of delivering a fibre optic network. The technology has been used extensively in Europe and has proven to be up to 10 times more reliable than equivalent underground networks.

ESB telecoms will operate as "a carriers carrier" providing a number of access packages for telecommunications companies and other businesses requiring broadband access.

The ESB network is the first service to offer a uniform bandwidth across the country.
=============================================
Link here:
http://www.esb.ie/main/news_events/press_release186.jsp

OHP

:rolleyes:

erm........................................... that's referring to the ESB fiber ring project, which provides backhaul to people like ISPs and large companies at the ESB's points of presence.

The thing being discussed in this thread is a new technology that allows broadband to be delivered over standard copper ESB power lines, i.e. straight into people's homes. Read the thread.........and several other threads............

OHP

Originally posted by andrew163
:rolleyes:

erm........................................... that's referring to the ESB fiber ring project, which provides backhaul to people like ISPs and large companies at the ESB's points of presence.

The thing being discussed in this thread is a new technology that allows broadband to be delivered over standard copper ESB power lines, i.e. straight into people's homes. Read the thread.........and several other threads............

I have read all the threads / posts but felt this was also relevant so as to let people know what else the ESB were doing to provide BB across the country. That’s why I said at the start that if it was already posted or linked elsewhere ..sorry.

OHP

Paddy20

OHP,

You were trying too be helpful and informative unlike yer man [andrew163] who almost burst my balloon of optimism, but he failed miserably.

Paddy20;)

sceptre

All right Paddy, knock off the personal stuff (I've taken you to task about this before, I'm just waving the yellow flag before it starts in earnest). Andrew's post is entirely factually correct.

Stonemason

Muck


I sent E-mails to all three links you gave two failed to send ? but the one to John Mc Sweeney General Manager ESB ITSolutions went through and he was kind enough to reply.Unfortunately all he could tell me was that trial will start in autumn and they havent settled on an area yet.So if you dont spam the poor fella people might want to drop him a line just to give him some idea of how much intrest there is.May i suguest if you do send him an E-mail to keep it short and sweet .

paddyman

I am aware im jumping way way ahead here but IF this was to get of the ground and become successful. do u's reckon it would be possible for the ESB to provide the whole Telephone\Internet package through VOIP and allow me to completely rid myself of €ircon INCLUDING their phone line and line rental.

Urban Weigl

I do not mean to dampen your hopes, but as far as I am aware of powerline technology still has many issues that remain unresolved, and the world's only commercial rollout is in Hong Kong.

Of course that does not mean it can not succeed in Ireland. It's just that I do not believe it will suddenly resolve all of our broadband availability problems.

Moriarty

From what i remember there are comerical offerings of this in the northern england/scotland areas and in germany. Both undercut xDSL prices and provide a bigger connection (synchronus 1mbit for ~ €30 iirc).