Spam SMS

liamo · 21-07-2003 4:56pm #1

Hi All,

This afternoon I received yet another spam SMS. It said I had won a holiday and could claim it by phoning a 1580 number. The sender had included a local phone number for opt-out which I phoned and demanded to be removed from the list. The pleasant and polite lady on the other end explained that my number was supplied by a marketing company and probably got on a list from using my phone to enter a competition or from sending a txt to Big Brother or something like that. She said that I would be removed from the list.

Having thought about it, I do remember entering a competition by SMS a few months ago. What I certainly do not remember is giving permission for my number to be used for marketing purposes - something which, if I understand it correctly, is totally against the Data Protection Act.

I phoned back and asked for the name of the marketing company that supplied the list and was told (by a different person) that it was Call2 Promotions. When I asked for their phone number I was told that the number I had phoned was the number for Call2 Promotions. Hmmm. I asked for their address and she very reluctantly gave it to me (it was a PO box address).

I intend writing to them asking for my number to be removed from their list. Under the data protection act they must reply within 60 days informing me that they have removed my number. I also intend making a formal complaint to the Data Commissioner and ComReg. There's not much one can do about anonymous spammers on the other side of the world, however I can do something about the illegal use of my personal information, particularly when the abuser is identifiable. I have a particular abhorrence of SMS spamming because it's such an intrusive tactic.

Will post any results of my complaints.

Liam

Saruman · 21-07-2003 5:12pm

Sock it to em!!

Sleipnir · 21-07-2003 5:20pm

I got the same spam message and I have to say it REALLY annoyed me. I get enough spam via email thanks.
I sent a message to Vodafone asking if they sanction spam on their mobile network and what they are doing to combat it.
I should recieve a reply by tomorrow.
Can you post the address of this 'marketing' company?

liamo · 21-07-2003 5:35pm

Yep, here it is:

Call2 Promotions
PO Box 9115
Glenageary
Co Dublin

Another address is:

Office of the Data Protection Commissioner
3rd Floor, Block 6
Irish Life Centre
Lower Abbey Street
Dublin 1.

After my initial post I started looking to see who I could complain to:

RegTel is the office concerned with Premium Rate phone numbers. If the Spammer had not included a contact number I could make a complaint about that. As far as I remember (I used to work in that industry) they must also include the price per minute of the call. I deleted the SMS and can't remember if the price was included. Kananga, you still got the SMS?

ComReg appears to be all about the Telco/Consumer relationship, not content (Unless I misunderstood the material) so that avenue appears be inappropriate.

I've written a letter to the Data Protection Commissioner for posting later. Will let you know what I get back.

Like Kananga, I also intend contacting Vodafone to see what they've got to say about it.

coke · 21-07-2003 9:12pm

Good for you. There are loads of those ****heads out there. Like i signed up for soccer text alerts from sum company and later realised they were charging me like three euro to receive each messege. And i had loads of trouble unsubscribing. And there is a ''€10,000 Quiz'' on aertel everyone should be careful of.. Absolutely ridiculous receiving costs. and at the time i entered they were not posted on the page.

skipn_easy · 21-07-2003 9:16pm

As far as I know the mobile phone operators do not encourage spammers on their networks (apart from their own spam that is) and take a dim view on it.

If you receive spam you should tell your operator about it as well so that they can take action against them.

sceptre · 22-07-2003 2:23am

Originally posted by liamo
I also intend making a formal complaint to the Data Commissioner and ComReg. There's not much one can do about anonymous spammers on the other side of the world, however I can do something about the illegal use of my personal information, particularly when the abuser is identifiable.

Oh please complain to both of those places. Joe Meade (Data protection commissioner) is very interested in his job and very capable. Make sure you at least phone his office with all the details you do have. There was a long discussion about this on the Open mailing list lately (there's no online archive unfortunately) and the general consensus as you can imagine was that SMS spammers are scum, don't recognise they're doing anything wrong, don't care if they do andd that the Data Protection Commissioners office is well worth ringing.

Sleipnir · 22-07-2003 9:01am

Got this reply from Vodafone this morning, I guess I must have entered a competition at some point and that's how they got my number.
I have asked them to send me details on who to complain to about this.
Liamo, they did include the price of the phone call, €1.90 per minute!

Thank you for your query with regard to these text messages.

The messages you have received have originated from a third party and not from
Vodafone and as such we are not in a positions to provide any information with regard to the sender.
We would also like to point out that Vodafone do not pass on our customers? details to any third parties.
We can however direct you to the appropriate regulatory bodies if you wish to make a formal complaint.

Should you require any further assistance or information, please do not hesitate to
contact us at care@Vodafone.ie or freefone 1907.

Here is the full spam message;

>"U WON a 325 Euro Great Irish Break for 2 - Eat in 1 of 30 top Country Hotels
>- STAY AT NO COST ! Call 1580 125 999. Help/Optout 014580777 SP Call2 cost
>e1.90pm"

liamo · 23-07-2003 2:13pm

Hi,

I got the same stock reply from Vodafone as Kananga which is unacceptable. I intend writing to them again.

I have written to Call2 Promotions demanding that they reveal what information of mine they are holding and that they remove such information from any list, database or information store.

As a Premium Rate number was being advertised, I have written to RegTel.

As it was an advertisement, I have written to the Advertisement Standards authority.

Finally, as it involves personal information, I have written to the Data Protection Commissioner.

It'll be interesting to see what comes out of all this. I'll post any answers I get.

If anyone wants to see what letters I wrote, let me know and I'll post them here. (Don't want to do it without being requested in order to keep the SNR at a reasonable level)

Liam

jesus_thats_gre · 23-07-2003 3:15pm

Why is that unacceptable?

liamo · 23-07-2003 4:20pm

OK, fair question.

I didn't just lash off a quick complaint to Vodafone complaining about the SMS. I wrote a well thought out letter informing them that I had received this intrusive and offensive form of mass-marketing. I pointed out that they were in no way to blame for my receipt of the SMS but I asked what steps they were taking to protect their customers from it.

For them to then simply fob me off with a stock reply which in no way addresses my question indicates that my letter was barely read and their response smacks of a "Oh, here's another one" type of attitude.

That's why it's unacceptable.

Hope this answers your question.

Liam

P.S. I've also written to the Minister for Communications this afternoon asking him to look into SMS spam.

manchine · 23-07-2003 4:26pm

The best the operators can do is to block the SMSC that's sending the messages if they aren't the ones doing the sending.

This is a bit of overkill as it will block *all* traffic from the other SMSC including legitimate traffic.

liamo · 23-07-2003 4:34pm

I don't see how anything I've done or am doing is overkill.

I don't have a problem with legitimate traffic - I send and receive SMS messages myself and would be very inconvenienced if the service was blocked. What I do have a problem with is the illegal use of my personal information for spamming purposes.

Liam

manchine · 23-07-2003 4:42pm

Sorry, I wasn't clear. If the operators here block external traffic, it's an all or nothing approach.

If you can find who is actually doing the spamming I'll hold them while you work them with a chainsaw.

Does the data protection act apply outside Ireland / Europe? If some guy in Burundi decides to spam people does legislation here apply?

liamo · 23-07-2003 5:21pm

I don't think that external traffic should be blocked. I do think that the TelCo's should play some play some part in preventing spam. In this case, the spam has originated from an identifiable source and, if they wanted, I'm sure the Telco's could do something about it. SMS spam is different to regular spam : regular spam may cost the spammer nothing and act as a cost for the ISPs - hence their enthusiasm in tackling spam; SMS spams are being paid for by the companies behind them and the payment is being made to who? None other than the Telco's. Their claim that they don't sell on my information to outside agencies is not good enough - they should be doing more to stamp this out before it gets a proper foothold.

I wonder if phones could come with a feature that would refuse SMS messages unless the source number was in its phone-book or if the source number was blocked? That would be neat!

AFAIK, the Data Protection Act applies only within our own jurisdiction. There may, of course, be Data Protection laws in other countries, but I don't know if their protection extends to people in other jurisdictions.

For example : If SpammerCo & Sons set up in Dublin for the purposes of spamming people in the US, do our Data Protection laws apply to the information that the spammers are in possession of, or do our laws apply to the people to whom the information applies? I don't know the answer but I just threw out the question to illustrate the problem.

As to your question, there's probably nothing to prevent someone in Burundi sending text message to people here - apart from an increased cost per message. Then again, they wouldn't be just sending them for a laugh - they'd be acting as agents for a company/product/service here (or else, what's the point?) so maybe the people behind that company/product/service could be held responsible. Again, I don't know the answer.

However, in this case the people are identifiable and they are subject to the laws of this land so I'm going to exercise my rights to the maximum and do what I can to make them very uncomfortable.

Regards

Liam

seamus · 23-07-2003 5:31pm

In fairness liamo, if if was completely unsolicited spam, then fine. In fact the mobile operators take a very dim view of such things and some companies have been smacked for just firing off SMS to random numbers.

However, your number was supplied to some company, by another company, when you gave them you details at some point (remember, even if you write your mobile number on some form it could still end up in a database), so the matter is out of their hands. As far as Vodafone are concerned, the offending company is legit. As it says in the email, the company who sends the spam is just as entitled to it's privacy, so Vodafone cannot reveal their details.

The issue of it being intrusive and unwarranted then falls to the Data Commissioner, and other regulatory bodies, who will then consult with the mobile operators over what to do if it is discovered that some company is illegally spamming people.

Hobart · 23-07-2003 5:36pm

Originally posted by manchine
The best the operators can do is to block the SMSC that's sending the messages if they aren't the ones doing the sending.

This is a bit of overkill as it will block *all* traffic from the other SMSC including legitimate traffic.

That's not true. They can actually pick up what ESME on the MO side is sending this traffic and block that. The same way they can stop a pay as you go phone with no credit from sending out SMS messages (and B4 anybody starts I know that this nis strictly not the way RTG customers are validated) There is no way an operator would bring down an SMSC in order to stop a single source from sending spam.

manchine · 23-07-2003 6:18pm

You're assuming that the spam comes from the same network.

You are right though, if you're got a prepay phone with no credit then some kind of a ballance check gets done by the operator. No credit = no send.
But if say, an SMS comes in for you from an Estonian SMSC with a source address of an Estonian mobile number then the operator has know idea if the message is spam or otherwise.

liamo · 23-07-2003 8:42pm

Seamus, let's be clear about this : it was a totally unsolicited and unwelcome commercial communication. They've got their hands on my mobile number somehow - they said that it was probably as a result of entering a competition via SMS. Harvesting my number from that communication is illegal (AFAIK). Use of my personal information for any use other than that for which it was supplied is illegal.

I don't blame Vodafone as the source of the problem, but I do think they should be considering how they can protect their customers from these unwanted instrusions.

Regards,

Liam

jesus_thats_gre · 23-07-2003 9:01pm

You are right though, if you're got a prepay phone with no credit then some kind of a ballance check gets done by the operator. No credit = no send.

Not true, when you run out of credit, your ability to send SMS is removed from the operators HLR. If someone was to manually reapply this ability while you have no credit, you will be able to send SMS.

With regard to who is to blame, I cant be arsed.

MadsL · 24-07-2003 12:19am

prevent someone in Burundi sending text message to people here

ESTMED GRTINGS,

NEED YR HLP, CUS MY DAD DEAD, & NIGERIAN GVT HAV TAX BILL. WE HAV $1,000,000,000. NEDD BK ACC NO. TO DEPOSIT MUNY. PLS HELP. SEND YR BANK NO. TO ME ELSBE BINITOE & U WILL GT 10% THT IS $1,00000000 FR YR HLP. PLS HLP. THKS ELSBE.
PS NED TO PAY OFFICL BRIB - PLS SEND $1000 THXS.

Hobart · 24-07-2003 10:39am

Originally posted by jesus_thats_gre
Not true, when you run out of credit, your ability to send SMS is removed from the operators HLR. If someone was to manually reapply this ability while you have no credit, you will be able to send SMS.

With regard to who is to blame, I cant be arsed.

Originally posted by Hobart
The same way they can stop a pay as you go phone with no credit from sending out SMS messages (and B4 anybody starts I know that this nis strictly not the way RTG customers are validated)

Originall posted by manchine
But if say, an SMS comes in for you from an Estonian SMSC with a source address of an Estonian mobile number then the operator has know idea if the message is spam or otherwise.

The originating SMSC does not matter actually. It's the mobile device (or originating device to be precise). So no matter where in the World you send it from you can stop it being terminated on your box. Just like Eircom used to block (or maybe they still do) any traffic from MTN free SMS. MTN could re-route, and did, through an SMSC in Singapore but because the originating address was MTN it did not matter where the message was sent from. It was just rejected on the Eircom/Vodafone side.

However I agree that the operators should being doing more about this. Spam is Spam. It only takes 1 unsolicited SMS to find out where it comes from. The fact is that anybody replying to this spam is generating revenue for the mobile operator. So they are quite reluctant to do anything about this.

liamo · 31-07-2003 1:46pm

A quick update :

The Advertising Standards Authority responded recently and referred me to the Data Protection Commissioner. The reason they gave was that they don't want to be reproducing the functions of other bodies. OK, fair enough. It was good of them to respond. I'm still awaiting a response from the Data Protection Commissioner and Calls Promotions.

Also, I didn't hear back from Dermot Ahern following my email to him and it may be simply co-incidental timing but the following article appeared in today's Indo.

Regards,

Liam

nigel77 · 31-07-2003 2:45pm

For what it's worth, I also got spammed yesterday and don't like it at all. Here's the mail I sent today to info@regtel.ie :

Sent: 31 July 2003 15:00
To: 'info@regtel.ie'
Subject: SMS Spam

Hello,
Yesterday at 19:58, I received an SMS with this text:

"U won a 325 euro FREE STAY in 1 of 30 Top Irish Hotels. Call Dublin 01 2481453 To Claim. Ltd availability - 1st come basis. UCC Optout/help: 01 4580777"

The sender was not a number but was "IRISHBREAKS". The sending service centre was +447781001008.

Apart from the fact that "U won" and "1st come basis" together consist misleading advertising, my complaint here is that I never opted in to receive SMS advertising.

So I phoned the Optout number and asked where they got my number. They said that their marketing partner looked after this, and the numbers are collected when people order ringtones etc. from this marketing partner. I asked who the marketing partner was and they told me it is "Realm Communications".

So I would like to complain that Realm Communications (an SMS premium rate service provider) is sending unsolicited SMS spam, without permission to a number of Irish mobile subscribers including myself.

Please investigate this matter.

sceptre · 31-07-2003 6:46pm

/makes note that Realm Communications (who run all those newspaper adverts) are scummy spam whores

/promises to let all my friends know that they're scummy spam whores.

/willing to let Realm Communications know that I've called them scummy spam whores in public.

Incidentally Dermot Ahern (minister for fones and fish) had this to say today (as reported by Dahamsta on the Open mailing list))

Minister Ahern to tackle spam
Wednesday, July 30 2003
by Matthew Clark

http://www.enn.ie/frontpage/news-9370233.html

Minister for Communications Dermot Ahern, TD, said on Wednesday that the Irish government is looking at ways to fight spam.

Spam, or unsolicited commercial junk e-mail, is a problem that increasingly is seen as a kind cyber-plague, using up much needed-bandwidth and littering millions of inboxes. In the last six months alone various initiatives in the private sector from firms like Microsoft, AOL and Yahoo have been launched to counter the problem. Governments in North America, Europe and Asia have also been debating spam, and in some cases, laws have been passed to punish spammers.

On Wednesday, Dermot Ahern T.D., Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources initiated a public consultation process on draft regulations in Ireland to help stop spam, or as the Department of Communications says, to "enhance the privacy protection of subscribers and users of electronic communications services and networks."

[...]

liamo · 31-07-2003 7:53pm

Further to my post earlier today, there was a letter waiting for me when I got home. It was an acknowledgement from the Data Protection Commissioner of my complaint telling me that the matter is being investigated and that they will be in touch in due course. Will continue to post any responses, etc....

seamus · 01-08-2003 3:46pm

Just got a message from Vodafone, to forward all SMS to spam to 087 1222222.

Obviously they're looking to try and get a handle on it.

Rudolph Claus · 26-12-2006 6:15am

liamo wrote:

Further to my post earlier today, there was a letter waiting for me when I got home. It was an acknowledgement from the Data Protection Commissioner of my complaint telling me that the matter is being investigated and that they will be in touch in due course. Will continue to post any responses, etc....

What ever became of this?

irlrobins · 27-12-2006 6:04pm

old old old thread. And wrong forum to boot. CLunk!

Spam SMS

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