Ordering scopes etc from the net

Saruman

OK im looking for somewhere outside of Ireland to order a scope or scopes in general. This would be a good sticky maybe if there are enough suggestions.

Maybe the UK is best, i tried ordering from a US site but they would not send here.. i emailed them first and even though Ireland is listed, they said they will not ship that scope here.. so maybe it was just that one.

So prefferably anyone who has bought a scope from said company and got it ok etc. Nothing against AI but they are about the only real supplier in Ireland (not including NI) so i dont like monopolies. i Have one scope from them and any other astro stuff i got there too but i like choice. and i know i can get them for a few grand cheaper in other countries.

albertw

Originally posted by Saruman

Maybe the UK is best, i tried ordering from a US site but they would not send here.. i emailed them first and even though Ireland is listed, they said they will not ship that scope here.. so maybe it was just that one.

So prefferably anyone who has bought a scope from said company and got it ok etc. Nothing against AI but they are about the only real supplier in Ireland (not including NI) so i dont like monopolies. i Have one scope from them and any other astro stuff i got there too but i like choice. and i know i can get them for a few grand cheaper in other countries.

Few points:

The restrictions are not from the shops themselves, its from Meade and Celestron who operate strictly on a regional delaership basis. If they sell you a scope and ship it here they can get their dealership revoked. Even UK Meade dealers must go through BC&F, they do not have any contact with Meade in California.

You can get around the US restrictions, there are some posts in the archives of the ifas yahoo group (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/irishfas/) about folks who have done this, so search through and get in contact with the folks who have done it. Theres no point in me repeating the debate again here! Only makes sence, IMHO, if you are spending serious money. Even paying all the correct taxes and duties it still works out cheaper than buying in the uk, and as for why stuff gets marked up so much from the uk to Artane is beyond me...

There are some long threads on that list, with some posts from people who are in the business, and form some who have imported scopes themselves so its worth a read.

Many other people have been pissed off about the A&S shop (from pricing and advice more than the percieved monopoly I feel though). But thankfully some folks out there did something about it. Andromeda Optics is Dublin based and was stared by some folks in the SDAS and IAS, web page is at http://www.andromedaoptics.com/. Its a bit out - of date! No prices listed, no Meade products listed even though they are the distributor etc.! But give them a shout and see what they have.

I got my scope in the UK for what its worth.

Cheers,
~Al

halenger

Originally posted by albertw

Many other people have been pissed off about the A&S shop (from pricing and advice more than the percieved monopoly I feel though).

Lets keep from these comments shall we?

There are other suppliers of scopes around the country Andromeda being one. Celestron's UK Dealer's website is http://www.dhinds.co.uk. I'm not sure if he'll ship over here though.

halenger

The only other things I'd suggest looking into and being very careful about are...

1. Currency conversion,

2. Delivery costs, and

3. What happens if something goes wrong.

If anyone can think of any other things that they think should be kept in mind then feel free to add them.

jArgHA

I have purchased some accessories second hand from the following sites:

http://www.astromart.com
http://www.astronomyads.co.uk/

It's always a bit risky purchasing 2nd hand equipment, but sometimes it really pays off, I've yet to receive a faulty piece of equipment.

The following UK Based Astronomy site is also well worth a look:
http://www.telescopehouse.co.uk/
They have an excellent range of products, and prices are prolly better than from AI.

jAH

Agar

Start off by deciding what type of scope you want, then trawl websites, usergroups and magazines. Pay attention to prices and exchange rates.
One good tactic which I know has been applied at least twice successfully is to travel. Getting on the ferry and driving to David Hinds is the cheapest way to get a Celestron in the Republic of Ireland. Price it and see, especially with the Euro getting stronger against sterling.
I don't think that monopoly is the problem in the RoI. I think that the single choice of manufacturer, ie Celestron, is the problem. Meade are a fantastic manufacturer of telescopes. I'll attest to that ( God bless my LX90 ), and I'm sure Albert will too. It's not that they're _better_ than Celestron, it's just that all people see are Celestron scopes that are perhaps pricey.

halenger

Well I'll agree that they're good scopes too.

I very much understand your point.
Nothing I can do about it though!! :-)

albertw

Originally posted by halenger
Lets keep from these comments shall we?

Then in turn can you get rid of the following crap from the astronomy . ie website? :

"Everyone in Ireland buys Celestron, and they all buy them from Astronomy Ireland."

Two lies in the one sentence :-)

And you wonder why A&S Ltd. pisses so many people off...

While I'm here, I've mailed AI/A&S Ltd. as a member, asking them to consider joining the IFAS. As yet no reposnse.

Cheers,
~Al
--
www.irishastronomy.org

halenger

Originally posted by albertw
Then in turn can you get rid of the following crap from the astronomy . ie website? :

"Everyone in Ireland buys Celestron, and they all buy them from Astronomy Ireland."

Two lies in the one sentence :-)

And you wonder why A&S Ltd. pisses so many people off...

While I'm here, I've mailed AI/A&S Ltd. as a member, asking them to consider joining the IFAS. As yet no reposnse.

I wont remove anything frmo the website. I put what I'm told to put there. That's the job of a webmaster. Sorry!

I'm glad you did mail AI about joining IFAS. It shows an openness and willingness on your side which I very much appreciate. I don't know if you'll ever get a response to be honest but at least it can never be said that you didn't try and that you didn't offer...

albertw

Originally posted by halenger
I wont remove anything frmo the website. I put what I'm told to put there. That's the job of a webmaster. Sorry!

Fair enough! I've just sent a complaint in to them.

Cheers,
~Al
--
www.irishastronomy.org

Redshift

Originally posted by albertw
Then in turn can you get rid of the following crap from the astronomy . ie website? :

"Everyone in Ireland buys Celestron, and they all buy them from Astronomy Ireland."

Two lies in the one sentence :-)

And you wonder why A&S Ltd. pisses so many people off...

While I'm here, I've mailed AI/A&S Ltd. as a member, asking them to consider joining the IFAS. As yet no reposnse.

Cheers,
~Al
--
www.irishastronomy.org

Albert, I am dissapointed that after my repeated requests for people to not discuss this subject you are still at it. I am banning you for 1 week.
Sorry but the forum charter is not flexible.

Agar

Originally posted by Redshift
Albert, I am dissapointed that after my repeated requests for people to not discuss this subject you are still at it. I am banning you for 1 week.
Sorry but the forum charter is not flexible.

Wow. Way to go on the heavy-handed response! Top-notch excessive use of authority there! Well done.
Now that I've gotten the sarcasm out of the way here are the reasons why I disagree with the actions of the moderator of this list.
The forum charter is specifically designed to ensure that no criticism of Astronomy Ireland Ltd occurs. This is because the last astronomy forum on boards.ie was an official Astronomy Ireland forum and it was used by posters as a forum to air their greivances with the organisation. I firmly believe that the moderator would not have been as quick to proclaim banishment had Albert criticised a ridiculous and untruthful claim made by the Westport and District Astronomy Society.
Overt criticism is not tolerated, but how about covert. If I said that the cheapest way to get Astronomy books in Ireland is to order them from Amazon.co.uk, that is a covert criticism of Astronomy Ireland, as well as Eason, Waterstones, Hodges Figgis &c. If I said that books ordered from amazon, including postage and exchange, are half the price of the bookshops who sell astronomy books in Ireland, then I am telling the truth. What do I get for telling the truth? I am banned. What does Albert get for seeking the truth? He is banned.
My main problem here is that Albert was sanctioned publicly. If the moderator chose to ban Albert that is his right, his power and within his jurisdiction. Humiliation and public ostracism are not. Setting an example? Trust me, there are better ways.
Albert White is an astronomer par excellence, one of the shining lights of our community. He is someone who will either find a comet or have a minor planet named after him in years to come. And you ban him? That's like being one of the publishers who rejected Harry Potter!
This forum has been born out of frustration that led to the deletion of the last forum. Yes there will be problems. The charter is a start, but it has bus-sized flaws. I made many criticisms in the past, and indeed went over the top at least once. I made my apologies. I mended my ways. By the way, why isn't Halengar banned for promoting Astronomy Ireland, which he has done more than once? Get consistent!

Raptor666

I bought a 4 1/5 in reflector(Helios) with RA Drive from a dealer in the north Andrew McCrea for £stg 159

andrew@mccreaa.freeserve.co.uk
www.mccreaa.freeserve.co.uk

He is only too happy to deal with the republic andwhen he sent me the wrong camera adapter he was onlytoo happy to replace it

Redshift

Firstly you may be Interested to know the Albertw is no longer banned I have spoken to him by PM which resulted in the ban being lifted. Secondly the forum charter does not mention AI and infact it applies to all organizations wether you want to belive that or not, and it's really simple it states that any topic that is or post that is not about Astronomy or Space is off topic and off topic is not allowed futher to that any comments about any particular organization are forbidden and thats it, I can't for the life of me see why you have a problem with that also are you aware that if we don't keep to these guidelines this forum will be deleted. As regards your comments about overt / covert criticism you are splitting hairs and you know very well what sort of comments are allowed but I will humour you by answering anyway. If you were to say that vendor a has a certain book and is selling it cheaper than vendor b, thats fine if you went on to say that vendor b is this, that or the other, that is not ok. If you look through the other forums on Boards you will note that in most cases when a member is banned it is posted by the Mod on thread it is the only way to set an example you said there is a better way then i'd like to hear it I have tried asking nicely for people not to do certain things and eventually the time for action has to come. You have a problem with the charter then tell me what it is make a suggestion for an addition or deletion you simply stated it has "Bus sized flaws" what are they? all you are doing is pointing out percieved problems and inconsistancies yet you offer no suggestions on how to remedy them.
Finally it is not within my power to ban another moderator and I have previously explaned to you what you should do if you have a problem with a moderator.

Regards

albertw

Morning all,

A few quick points.

Agar, thanks for the glowing reference! Though such compliments should go to folks like Terry Mosely and not to me, as I just spend far too much time on discussion boards and email lists, and not enough time behind a telescope. Though the Irish weather is to blame for that[1].

Secondly, I did break the rules as they are laid out, and have apologised to Redshift for this. I dont particularly like the rules, and I dont understand the fear of libel from A&S Ltd. but not from say eircom on the tech. boards. But they are the rules we must abide by.

I'd have rather not had a public post about banning either, that way this thread would be dead now! But again if that is how this site does things then.. well thats how it does things.

Anyway, back to astronomy :-)

Cheers,
~Al

[1] I dont mean to criticise the operation of Irish weather, Irish weather is free to do as it wishes and I wish it the best in that. However I think that the current operation and lack of transparency is not helpful to Irish astronomy. ;-)

halenger

I promote what I know. Just like Albertw promotes what he knows. I don't have a problem with this. If you do pick your examples and tell them to me and or the admins. Go talk to them. If they feel a ban is in order then it is. I'll leave it in your hands.

I don't see what the problem with promoting AI is though. All Astronomy Clubs should be promoted here. I'm not saying and have never said that the IAS* are rubbish and should never be listened to etc. Get my point? I'm not here rubbishing anyone here. There was a post about the Irish Astronomy Calendar where we were ALL asked to list ALL events. I only know AI ones-should I know them all??

Why can't we all just get along? This must really be putting people off of this forum.

* I'm not saying IAS are rubbish etc. Just making an example. I know nothing of the IAS.