Advice - Building New System.....

studiomga

Building my first ever system. Just about to order the following spec from Komplett........ any advice? Do you think I should upgrade my processor?

Asus A7N8X Deluxe/GD mainboard Socket A
AMD Athlon XP2500+ 1.833 GHz 333 MHz bus (Barton)
Corsair TWINX1024-2700LL DDR-DIMM 1024MB
Maxtor S-ATA/150 80GB 7200RPM 8MB X 2
Sony Floppy Drive, 3,5" 1,44MB Black
Sony DVD drive 16x/40x ATAPI
Sony CD recorder IDE 52x24x52x Retail
Enermax PSU ATX 431W (P-4)
Microsoft MultiMedia & Optical Val. Pack
Creative Modem Blaster V92 PCI Intern
Sapphire Radeon 9700 Atlantis 128MB
Microsoft Windows XP Professional +
(Total E1500)

I'm probably going to get a Iiyama Pro 454 monitor from Elara (E439)

Any views on what kind of case?
I was considering Thermaltake A6000 Aluminium Tower from Elara (E162.81).

Any opinions on the SkyHawk cases by Komplett?
Any better value cases from Elara?

I'm will mostly working with graphics programs such as Photoshop/3DMax/CAD programs etc.
Thanks in advance

Adrian

Get a case from either Coolermaster or Lian Li as these are the best cases. If I were you I would get a Samsung Dvd drive instead of the sony one. Its a lot better and can run more formats. It also looks better. The Sony burner is good. I also recommend to you to lose some of that Ram and only get 512mb of ram. Then use the money saved to get a either a FX5900 Ultra or a Radeon 9800 pro. Any of them will do. Also a question. Why are you bothering to buy Windows XP? Would you not just get a lend of it off a mate? You could spend the saved money on some Logitech Z-680 Surround sound speakers. Thats all I got for you.

BoB_BoT

Originally posted by Adrian
Why are you bothering to buy Windows XP? Would you not just get a lend of it off a mate?

WAREZ!!!! plus Windows Xp is very awkard with the whole registering it after install, or so i've heard :P.

hehe, yeah pretty good system, have the same processor does the job if there's a huge difference in price of windows xp home and pro, just go with home, or if you can go with 2000 pro. win xp = ghey the only redeaming feature about it is you can change the shell to look like win 98 me thinks. the graphics card will be more than sufficient for your purposes, I wouldn't sacrafice the ram for the graphics card in this case. Mobo is also good.

I'm will mostly working with graphics programs such as Photoshop/3DMax/CAD programs etc.
Thanks in advance

get a mac tbh

Third_Echelon

get a loan of XP.. never mind about warez... MS only go after the big boys when it comes to that type of thing... you can disable the register feature in the system panel in control panel... defo get XP Pro... the home edition is crap compared to it...


first thing first... get rid of that terrible AMD processor.... whatever the equivilant prices Intel chip is... get that...


and why are you spending 1500 quid on komplett when you could spend it or 100 quid more on dell and get a system with a hell of a better spec than that...

was checking out on dell and for 1700 you could get a pc with:

p4 2.8 GHz
17" plat panel monitor
512 mb ram
80 Gb Hard Disk
128MB nVidia GeForce4 FX5200 TV Out Graphics (no DVI)
4x DVD+R\+RW with DVD Authoring Software
Creative Labs SoundBlaster Live! 5.1 Sound Card
Altec lansing 745 Speakers with Subwoofer

why buy anywhere else????


if you are set on building a system... get a better processor, less ram and a better graphics card... you may find though that you'll have problems with an untested system a year or two down the road.. when companies such as Dell, HP etc are making these systems they test all the components together so there is no conflictions or components making other components screw up... id take a look around the net to see if these products that you are buying have been tested together or if you know anyone else who has used a similar combination of parts....

anyway hope it goes well for you

ozt9vdujny3srf

lol third echelon, the price equivalent of that athlon 2500+ (which is an excellent budget processor) is a 2.5 ghz celeron. celerons are HORRIBLE!

was checking out on dell and for 1700 you could get a pc with:

p4 2.8 GHz
17" plat panel monitor
512 mb ram
80 Gb Hard Disk
128MB nVidia GeForce4 FX5200 TV Out Graphics (no DVI)
4x DVD+R\+RW with DVD Authoring Software
Creative Labs SoundBlaster Live! 5.1 Sound Card
Altec lansing 745 Speakers with Subwoofer

why buy anywhere else????

UGH! Don't go near that, that gfx card is nasty nowhere near as good as a 9700 radeon (in fact not even in the same league being a budget card), the motherboard is an intel motherboard (which performs at nowhere near the levels of the asus board), the hd wont have an 8mb cache or be s-ata, Seriously don't give people crap advice.

Third_Echelon

the athlon 2500 + is the equivalent speed of a p4 1.8 ghz....

ozt9vdujny3srf

It is the same clock, doesnt mean its as good a processor. THe athlon 2500+ walks all over the p4 1.8 ghz (which also costs a lot more). Seriously, SHHHH! The only thing better about that dell pc is the processor, which costs a lot more than the athlon 2500+. (On side note, wouldnt go near dell.....again )

Third_Echelon

on the topic of the AMD 2500 vs the p4 1.8.. the price difference is only 50 quid.. i know which one id choose..

the only other choice on that dell spec was the 9800 radeon for an extra 120 quid which the chap probably didnt want to spend... there wasnt an alternate budget card..

Third_Echelon

im not giving crap advice....

ive seen a few mates go down the build it yourself road using amd processors and there has been some horrible instances with crashes etc with xp... if the guy is gonna build it himself and its his first go as he said... id defo not use an amd chip.. spend the extra on a p4 or buy the 8300 series from dell and get a good machine...

ozt9vdujny3srf

lol, you are paying 40 euro extra for a processor that is nowhere near as good. Athlons to a lot more per clock than pentiums.

Third_Echelon

the 1.8 was only an example for a comparable speed chip that i looked at quickly on komplett... i dont know... i just personally wouldnt buy amd.. i think that intel make a far superior chip..

ozt9vdujny3srf

Originally posted by Third_Echelon
im not giving crap advice....

ive seen a few mates go down the build it yourself road using amd processors and there has been some horrible instances with crashes etc with xp... if the guy is gonna build it himself and its his first go as he said... id defo not use an amd chip.. spend the extra on a p4 or buy the 8300 series from dell and get a good machine...

The last amd i had, which was an athlon 1900+ kicked booty, and was quite stable. Anywhos if you wanna go the extra bit on the processor get the p4 2.4 ghz w/ 800 fsb, otherwise at that price level the 2500+ barton is king.

I agree the latest pentiums boot the athlons ass ( i just bought an 2.6 p4c ) but they are a lot more expensive. Anywhos, for that price level, he has picked the right processor.

studio , the antec cases on elara are supposed to be great quality wise and some of them come with some quality antec psu's (newarly as good as enermax). Alternitavely you could get a chieftec dragon from komplett.

Third_Echelon

yeah the 800 mhz fsb is a nice feature alright... compared to the 333 on the amd...

i suppose its down to personal experience and likes/dislikes etc..

BoB_BoT

though the higher model amds arn't as good as the equivelent intel processors (i.e. amd 3000xp 400mhz fsb vrs the pentium 3.06 800mhz fsb) the lower models amds (i.e. 2500xp vrs a celeron/pentium) it more than gives it a run for it's money not just price wise but performance. Plus that and the fact that he's only using the machine for graphics editing/design.

studiomga just looking back over your items i'd nearly change that ram for two sticks of

117211 Corsair Value S. PC2700 DDR-DIMM 512MB
- Unbuffered, Non-parity, 64Megx64, CL2.5 In stock: 50-99 114.47 100.73

you'll save over 100 euro.

El_MUERkO

I own the following:

Asus A7N8X Deluxe/GD mainboard Socket A
AMD Athlon XP2500+ 1.833 GHz 333 MHz bus (Barton)
Maxtor S-ATA/150 80GB 7200RPM 8MB X 2

And I must say its the dogs bollox, Third_Echelon is talking out his arse saying buy dell.

The XP2500 I have runs at a steady 45 degrees using a silent breeze cooling fan without overclocking which gives you 20 degrees to play with.

A braver friend of mine got it to 36 degrees overclocked to 2.3ghz with watercooling The chips a beast.

Yes you can get better pentium setups at the moment but you're going to spend way more money.

Raz

Third_Echelon, you can't compare AMDs and Intels through clock speeds and FSB speeds.
The intel FSB is quad pumped which means it's actual FSB for the 800MHz chip is 200MHz
If AMD employed the same technique their FSB would be up at 1.6GHz!
The processor core are also constructed completely differently.
The AMD can execute mathematical commands faster than the intel. Therein lies it's strenght because everything boils down to a mathematical command in the end.
P4s make AMDs look bad because they can push really high clock speeds but it doesn't mean that they are overall more powerful.
If you want to compare AMDs and P4s at a glance then look to their naming convention.
The AMD XP2500+ is roughly the equivalent of a P4 2.5GHz.
You see it don't you, 2500 and 2.5!
To get a P4 1.8GHz (400MHz FSB) over an XP 2500+ (333MHz FSB)would be ludicrus. I believe the 2500 has a Barton core which is the current AMD flagship core if I remember correctly.
Don't turn your nose up at AMD because a P4 has nicer numbers!

Raz.

studiomga

Thanks for all the advice.....
I think I will drop the Windows XP + and use Windows 98 from my old PC, that should cut the price. I think I'll invest in a better Graphics Card.

Leggo - whats the difference between my RAM and the Corsair Value S. PC2700 DDR-DIMM 512MB that you reckon I should go for? (Besides the price)

One thing for sure, I'm definately won't be going down the Dell road.
Third_Echelon, I appreciate your input but my sys would kick any equivalent priced Dell System.

I've started looking at Ebay for other graphics cards....... check out this store.

http://www.stores.ebay.com/knowledgemicro/plistings/list/all/dept4/index.html?col=2&dir=-1[/URL]

I'm considering the 3Dlabs Wildcat VP970 128MB DDR 2Heads AGP Vid for US$377 plus shipping
or
3Dlabs Wildcat VP880 Pro 256MB AGP Video Card US$411 plus shipping.
Just need to find a mate in the US to ship her home for me.

napalm@night

just rember if its the 1st pc that your building to fit the risers between the box and the board heard of people with nasty disaters by forgetting to do just that when building there first pc + dont eat when your doing it was in peats the other day and someone brought there custom built pc in that they manged to spill curry all over when they were building it!

Anyway gud luk to you with it and enjoy + get a lend of xp pro or at least 2k 98 is living in the past man!:)

Col_Loki

Just to echo what everyone else is saying the Xp2500+ would beat the P4 1.8 in almost every benchmark hands down, its a great chip and Third_Echelon you really should do some research before you go giving crappy advice.

The antec cases from elara come with TruePower PSU's which have a very good name, will save you a few bob since you wont have to buy the ermax one??

Corsair & twinMos ram are both a good choice, dont go for OEM.

You seem to be pretty much on the ball, nice mobo etc..... Building the pc isint that bad, you should have no probs.

Best of luck anyway & give the boards a shout if you plan on overclocking . Ps El_MUERkO got my Xp2500+ to 2.3ghz aswell on air, aparently the newer chips will go further - nice to bear in mind.

BoB_BoT

humm.. the ram is tricky thing here. personally i'd go for the €100 cheaper cuz well, it's cheaper hehe. you might have to do a bit of research between the ram, i'm not too sure about newer ram myself, i.e. the difference between unbuffered and buffered ram etc... check toms hardware or osme similar site to find the difference, i will when i have the time.

WARNING: Windows 98 has problems with ram over 512, so it might have difficulties with 1gig of ram. I would suggest win2k, upgraded to it about a month ago, it's far better than windows 98se, imo, havn't had a crash with it yet!

Oh BTW, don't buy graphics cards of ebay! just get a brand new one, at least then you have a warenty if something goes wrong with it! Also you more than likely won't need that kinda power from a graphics card, I think you had a good choice with your first one.

Scruff

Here is a handy general comparison of a ****e load of cpus.
notice i said "general comparison" so do yous start bickering over the test set up or the "reliability" of Tom Pabst.

http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/20030217/cpu_charts-22.html

not all the latest cpus are there but it is quite comprehensive none the less.
Check through the different benchmarks and you will at least see that Third_Echelon doth speaketh from his arseholeth!

bizmark

theirs pritty much no difference between them till you get to the nut bustingly expensive P4 3 gig

well im sticking with AMD

Giblet

That seems a tiny bit expensive.

DONT GET THAT DELL.

That gfx card is a piece of junk, that why it costs about 90 euro now!

Stay with the AMD to keep costs down.

Go for the AMD, and get 512mb Dual Channel Ram, tis the business.
Get a Radeon 9700.
Go for a Nice CRT if your into games.
Get an 80gig 7200 with a 8mb cache HDD if ya can.

blorg

If you are using it primarily for graphics work, you don't want to skimp on the RAM - this is likely to be more important than the processor. If you can save by getting 2x 512 meg, that would sound like a good idea. Also, I ordered 'generic' memory from Komplett and got TwinMos - I think they just ship whatever brand is handy and you save a few €s. YMMV.

I wouldn't go mad on the processor now - buy something where the price/performance ratio is optimum (the XP2500+ would fit the bill). Make sure you get a mobo that will support faster processors and then you can upgrade when they come down in price (as they always do). Think about it this way - the most expensive processor on the market today will likely be about 50% of the price in 6 months. Bear in mind that your mobo choice locks you in to either Intel or AMD, but I certainly wouldn't be worried about an AMD processor, I have one myself in my Shuttle and it is very stable and nippy. AMD have had the best price/performance ratio for a long time now, and there is no reason to believe that this is going to change any time soon.

Whatever you do, make sure you are using Windows 2000 or XP - if you can 'borrow' it, fine, if not, the money spent on it will be well worth it - your system will be a lot more stable than with 98. You may be able to get an OEM copy depending on who you buy your PC from (I know Elara do this) - and the OEM copy should be much cheaper than the retail. XP is easier to use and generally more compatible than 2000, but 2000 is more than acceptable if you can get a good deal on it.

Why not get a DVD recorder rather than CD-RW and DVD-ROM? Probably not that much more expensive. I'd be happy to ditch the floppy also, but then I do have access to one on another machine...

blorg

I believe that you are unlikely to see major (read any) performance gains from the current generation of Serial ATA drives - you might want to consider saving a few €s by going with ATA-133 drives (if your mobo supports it). S-ATA will majorly improve your internal cabling situation, however.

Check out reviews of your chosen drive on the net and compare it with the ATA-133 version, then decide if it is worth the extra.

studiomga

Considering dropping the Enermax psu and Thermaltake case for either of these:

Antec Lanboy/MT Smartble 350W @ 112 Euro
or...
Antec Sonata/MT 380W @ 130 Euro

I'm a little worried about their psu's - are they good quality and capable?

Thanks for all the advice

Col_Loki

The Sonata case has a silent power supply and it is very well known for its quality(truePower). The case itself has (im pretty sure its 2 fans) large silent fans at the front and rear. It has had brilliant reviews. Only problem is that elara have problems getting them into stock, am told the end of the month - not 100% guarenteed.

The Lanboy is also a good case, comes with a 350w TruePower TrueBlue PSU which is a very decent power supply. Have the exact same type in 480W myself (overkill but sure what can you do). The fans in the PSU are lit up blue and can be seen through the clear side window on the lanboy.

Am prob going to get a sonata myself in the near future for my second system, definetly the one id be recomending if you can wait?? Lanboy - mite not be powerfull enuf.

ozt9vdujny3srf

Originally posted by COL_LOKI
The Sonata case has a silent power supply and it is very well known for its quality(truePower). The case itself has (im pretty sure its 2 fans) large silent fans at the front and rear. It has had brilliant reviews. Only problem is that elara have problems getting them into stock, am told the end of the month - not 100% guarenteed.

The Lanboy is also a good case, comes with a 350w TruePower TrueBlue PSU which is a very decent power supply. Have the exact same type in 480W myself (overkill but sure what can you do). The fans in the PSU are lit up blue and can be seen through the clear side window on the lanboy.

Am prob going to get a sonata myself in the near future for my second system, definetly the one id be recomending if you can wait?? Lanboy - mite not be powerfull enuf.

Fairly sure it has one 120 mm silent fan

Col_Loki

Me thinks you'd be rite, red the entire review about it & forgot the feckin fan size. Tis suppose to be a great case though.