Eircom quest for world Irish domination receives a further set back.

Dangger

The following text is included in the Department of Communications response to the secound round of questions in realtion to the on going fibre rings management entitiy bid. The [deleted text] is theirs not mine. The full text is available here

Looks like they really won't be getting a look in here, thankfully.

Q3: [deleted text] fully understands the Minister's objectives to ensure that the Metropolitan networks are managed and maintained in a way that maximises the development of competition and it is for that reason that licence holders in Ireland and their parents appear to be excluded from the tender.

However we would like to respectfully bring to the attention of the Department that [deleted text] has an extremely well developed separated business between its wholesale and retail arms that fully meets the rigorous rules of [deleted text] which has both regulatory and competition law powers. For example [deleted text] wholesale currently supplies [deleted text] its broadband services to competing operators and service providers.

We believe that [deleted text] could set up a separated business that would fully meet the requirements of this tender subject to some minor amendments to incorporate this possibility.

We would welcome early clarification on whether such an application
as described above would be considered.

A3: Existing (as of 15 August 2003) holders of Irish Telecommunications Licences or of a general authorisation (as applicable) and their parent companies, subsidiaries, persons having a significant or controlling interest in such entities and other associated companies are excluded from bidding

MDR

They don't honestily expect the minister to buy the seperate this division of retail and wholesale horsesh*t .... :rolleyes: (although in fairness O'Rouke would accepted it as gospel, so they are probabily in the habit of pedaling horsesh*t at this point.)

flav0rflav

The first bunch of clarifications make interesting reading.

The impression I get is that the department decided to dig trenches in various rural locations, as it's old school tech, with good money and employment for the builders, but aren't too sure what to do with the fibre itself. The answers to alot of the specific and relevant questions are very vague.

If people think they'll have broadband when these holes in the ground are finished, they'll be disappointed.

Dangger

Well technically the local authorities decided to dig the trenches. They are the ones who opted in and decided they needed this capacity.

flav0rflav

If I was good at digging holes, and the government said, "Hey do you want a grant to dig holes", I'd opt in.

Having said they will be useful holes in the ground, I'm just concerned about how they will become useful.

I would hope that they would be the foundation of providing fibre-to-the-home or at least fibre-to-the-curb, which they almost do now. The doc about prioritising the first batch of users unfortunealty makes no mention of ordinary home users, just businesses and public places.

SkepticOne

Originally posted by flav0rflav
I would hope that they would be the foundation of providing fibre-to-the-home or at least fibre-to-the-curb, which they almost do now. The doc about prioritising the first batch of users unfortunealty makes no mention of ordinary home users, just businesses and public places.

The project falls well short of both fibre-to-the-home and fibre-to-the-curb. Bridging the gap will involve other technologies. The primary purpose of the rings appears to high speed digital communications for medium to large businesses and institutions. This is probably why they are attractive to local authorities and justifies for them digging up roads which is unpopular with residents. I doubt if local authorities care about home broadband.

The main value of the rings is that (if they succeed) they will end the leased line monopoly that exists in much of the country. This will enable commercial wireless operators and the various 'WAN' groups to purchase much cheaper backhaul.

dahamsta

The project falls well short of both fibre-to-the-home and fibre-to-the-curb. Bridging the gap will involve other technologies.

Of course, there's nothing stopping an independent company coming along and doing FTTH if they so wished...

adam

SkepticOne

Originally posted by dahamsta
Of course, there's nothing stopping an independent company coming along and doing FTTH if they so wished...

Indeed not.

flav0rflav

Originally posted by SkepticOne
The project falls well short of both fibre-to-the-home and fibre-to-the-curb.

This will enable commercial wireless operators and the various 'WAN' groups to purchase much cheaper backhaul.

Why does it fall short? It's running fibre all around the towns, along curbs, past housing estates.

Backhaul? One of the queries on the initial tender doc was about linking the diff rings and backhaul across the country. The departments answer indicated that it wasn't of major interest/bother/priority and the MSE could do as they wish.

SkepticOne

Originally posted by flav0rflav
Why does it fall short? It's running fibre all around the towns, along curbs, past housing estates.

Looking at the maps, the networks don't seem extensive enough. Significant fibre would need to be added to cover the whole of the towns.

Backhaul? One of the queries on the initial tender doc was about linking the diff rings and backhaul across the country. The departments answer indicated that it wasn't of major interest/bother/priority and the MSE could do as they wish.

If it doesn't succeed in facilitating cheap backhaul then I can't see it succeeding at all.

antoinolachtnai

Is anyone actually seriously interested in tendering for this thing?

Who on earth is the 'sole trader' guy? He must be very wealthy.

a

spongebob

this "thing" is Telecom Éireann #2

there is interest and a lot of speculation about.

lots of idle speculation in here would be good

antoinolachtnai

No it's not. It's nothing like eircom. Eircom is a retail giant within Ireland which owns a ubiquitous network.

This thing is a ten year concession to market and manage a very thin, spread-out and fragmented networkwhich serves a marketplace that is basically nonexistent at the moment. The winner of the tender doesn't get to own the network. The 'winner' takes all the risk, and the State makes any capital gain you might be lucky enough to build into it.

The 'winner' is basically precluded from operating any telecomms services itself. So it will never be a major retail player.

I could envisage taking the network off them for what it's worth (about EUR 500,000 per town or thereabouts), but I can't see how I could ever make any money running it as a concession.

I hate to make light when the department is trying to do something new, but I can't see how the plan has much merit.

Maybe I missed something in the tender documentation that Muck can point out to me.

a.

spongebob

the Original plan was to do 123 towns, every town in Ireland with a population over 1500. In 3 phases. 20 40 and 60 respectively.

Only phase one looks like it will be completed , if the other 103 odd were added (unlikely) ubiquity would not be an issue.

M

antoinolachtnai

Nope, it still wouldn't be anything like ubiquitous, because it would only pass by (not to speak of actually enter) a relatively proportion of the premises in Ireland.

STaN

Originally posted by SkepticOne
Looking at the maps, the networks don't seem extensive enough. Significant fibre would need to be added to cover the whole of the towns.If it doesn't succeed in facilitating cheap backhaul then I can't see it succeeding at all.

Some of the rings don't even connect into the ESBT or Aurora backhaul rings

STaN

Originally posted by dahamsta
The project falls well short of both fibre-to-the-home and fibre-to-the-curb. Bridging the gap will involve other technologies.

Of course, there's nothing stopping an independent company coming along and doing FTTH if they so wished...

adam

The shear cost and with ROI being decades into the future would be pretty big reasons