heatsink installation...

Kali

Was putting together a 2500XP system earlier today.. bit of a snag...

Installed the heatsink (Sharkoon CUS2) as per instructions, seemed to be a lot of compound under the pull off-tab but fitted it to the cpu anyway.. turned on the pc, no problems, checked in the bios for the temperature and its at 75C, and loading an OS seemed to take forever, so I turned it off and took the heatsink off and scraped the majority of the compound off... turning it on now reveals a temperature of 85C in the bios!

Anyway is:
a) the cpu fried at this stage anyway or will a decent heatsink/thermal paste be the cure?
b) the heatsink just not installed correctly?

There doesn't seem to be any visual damage (and it still boots) so I suspect the problem just lies with the heatsink contact?

elexes

atm im using a coolermaster x-dream untill i get my sku-900 modified fittings .

atm im getting temps of 52c
try putting in a extraction fan for the case ??? maby the case is holding all the heat in ???

using a xp 2500

jow

Originally posted by Kali
Was putting together a 2500XP system earlier today.. bit of a snag...

Installed the heatsink (Sharkoon CUS2) as per instructions, seemed to be a lot of compound under the pull off-tab but fitted it to the cpu anyway.. turned on the pc, no problems, checked in the bios for the temperature and its at 75C, and loading an OS seemed to take forever, so I turned it off and took the heatsink off and scraped the majority of the compound off... turning it on now reveals a temperature of 85C in the bios!

Anyway is:
a) the cpu fried at this stage anyway or will a decent heatsink/thermal paste be the cure?
b) the heatsink just not installed correctly?

There doesn't seem to be any visual damage (and it still boots) so I suspect the problem just lies with the heatsink contact?

Wow, be careful!

what you scraped of was no compound, it was the thermal-pad!
The sharkoon has a thermal-pad installed when you buy it.
This can be used only once. When you have removed the heatsink you have to install a new thermal pad or use thermal compound (is much better anyway!).

Please don't switch you PC on, get Thermal-Compound and install the heatsink again!
Otherwise you will destroy the CPU....

The procedure is: clean the contact area of the heatsink with nailpolish-remover (remove all parts of the old pad) and put some compound on the cpu (_very_ thin layer).
Then install the heatsink. Please check that you have installed it correctly and then switch the PC on.
75 Degrees is not normal. The sharkoon can cool a XP3200 which is much warmer than the 2500. 75 is the absolute limit you should run a CPU.

regards,

jow

BKtje

75 degrees as people have said is not normal, it wouldnt be anything to do with heat keeping case in if you just turn it on for first time. It takes a while for a cpu to get up to working temperature as well...higher for load of course.

I dont have any experience with your heatsink so i cant help you there. You havent overclocked have you? or changed the voltage to the cpu (raise in any kind of voltage with produce a lot fo extra heat).

Are you sure the BIOS is reporting the temp correctly? not sure how you would check it tbh tho. (unlilkely that its incorrect)

Motherboard could be faulty and supplying wrong voltage to cpu, cpu could be damaged..less likely that heatsink will be damaged unless its visible. All they do is absorb heat then fan cools it.

Unlikely cpu is damaged if it still boots.

tribble

Unlikely cpu is damaged if it still boots.

Yeah, you're ok - the Athlon can take 85-95 degrees C before it blows.

Athlon XP 2500+
Type: Barton
FSB: 166/333MHz
Socket A
OPGA Package
OPN: AXDA2500DKV4D
Core: 13nm
Die size: 101mm²
Transistors: 54.3 million
Frequency: 1.833GHz
Cache L1 Instructions: 64KB
Cache L1 Datas: 64KB
Cache L2: 512KB
Operating voltage: 1.65V
Multiplier: 11
Power (Max): 63.2W
Die temperature (max): 85°
CPU data bus width: 64-bit

However, running it at this temperature for extended periods will shorten it's life.

tribble

gerire

Sounds like a bad Heatsink, even a stock coolermaster keeps the temp around 50.
Do not turn on the pc and follow the instructions for adding the thermal compound.
Try to get artic silver if you can.
Also on the down side, using anything except the thermal pad that comes on a heatsink technically voids your warranty from AMD.

I see the slk 900 mentioned this is a fantastic and budget sink

CivilServant

Do the terms slk 900 and budget heatsink go together? I'd like to find a cheap one but most places seem to be selling them for £50-60 upwards.

unkel

Originally posted by tribble
Yeah, you're ok - the Athlon can take 85-95 degrees C before it blows.

However, running it at this temperature for extended periods will shorten it's life.

tribble

[RHETORIC]All very true tribble, but does anyone care whether the cpu lasts 3 years or 12?[/RHETORIC]

jow

Originally posted by unkel
[RHETORIC]All very true tribble, but does anyone care whether the cpu lasts 3 years or 12?[/RHETORIC]

Hi,
that is not the point. As murphys-law said: "a cpu will get destroyed when you really need it!"

75 Degrees is the absolute maximum you should run a CPU, and remember: Kali said he reaches the temperature in IDLE mode!
So, when he tries to play games..... BANG!

It is so easy.......:ninja:

jow

Scruff

I took a Spire 5T208B1H3T SuperRock cooler of a defunked p3 pc at work and brought it home to replace my quite woefull cooler on my p3.
Before i replace it i looked at the termal pad and noticed the outlines of 2 cpu on the pad, it was a bare in places where these had been. I added a bit of thermal compound to the bare spot and installed it on my cpu.
I had been getting temps in the 45-50C range with my crappy cooler and the pc would hang every now and again, but when i turned on my pc again and checked the bios where it was registering at 65C!! I turned it straight off, havent been back to it since.
Should i remove the thermal pad altogether too?
I was always wondering about the thickness of the thermal compound to use.

jow

Should i remove the thermal pad altogether too?
I was always wondering about the thickness of the thermal compound to use.

Yes, use a wooden stick or plastic pen and remove every piece of the pad.
Then clean it (see above) and use a small spot of thermal compound on the cpu-die.

regards,

jow

Raz

When applying the thermal paste use a credit/pass machine card.
Apply a small amount to the cpu and spread it thin with the card.
It should give you a smooth finish. You shouldn't use thermal compound and pad together.
It's simple physics, the heat has to go through two mediums instead of one to get to the heatsink thus causing a lower heat transfer rate. Do I sound geeky or what

Spunog UIE

Originally posted by CivilServant
Do the terms slk 900 and budget heatsink go together? I'd like to find a cheap one but most places seem to be selling them for £50-60 upwards.

i'd like to recommend one i got from Marx computers. Only €26 euro.

Thermaltake Volcano 9 CoolMod for Socket A
up to 2.133Ghz or Athlon XP 2800+
with LED lights, blue: drive not working
blue + red: hard drive working
copper core, heat sink with ball bearing fan
controllable fan speed
incl. thermal paste and heat sensor

http://www.marx-computers.com

Gid.

Scruff

Originally posted by Raz
You shouldn't use thermal compound and pad together.
It's simple physics, the heat has to go through two mediums instead of one to get to the heatsink thus causing a lower heat transfer rate. Do I sound geeky or what

ta for the advice, will follow it as soon as i get home.

i wasnt really using the two together, i used the compound to fill in the bald spots in the thermal pad where it had stuck to the last 2 cpus it was, er, stuck to.

Kali

Originally posted by jow
Wow, be careful!

what you scraped of was no compound, it was the thermal-pad!
The sharkoon has a thermal-pad installed when you buy it.
This can be used only once. When you have removed the heatsink you have to install a new thermal pad or use thermal compound (is much better anyway!).

thanks for the advice.. as I mentioned I thought the pad was very thick and that was the root of the problem.. I'll try some proper thermal compound with the sharkoon, and if that doesnt work I'll try another heatsink.. I don't want to write off the cpu just yet.

Thing was it was 75 degrees in the BIOS menu right after booting.. would it not take a minute or two for the heatsink to begin conduction to cool the cpu down anyway?

Theres no case fan as yet, but this was with the case open..

Jam

Noone else think that maybe the thermister under the processor might be a little foobared?

Kali

while that may be true Jam, the only thing I tried running on it (Win 2000 installation) seemed very slow (this was before I checked any tmeps in the BIOS), so I ruled out faulty temperature readings?

Gerry

Take the board out of the case, ensure that the heatsink is mounted perfectly level on the cpu. Remove the remains of the thermal pad with a lint free cloth and petrol or white spirits. Put on just enough thermal compound to fill in the differences between the two surfaces. Metal-to-Metal is better than thermal paste, you just want to eliminate the air gaps.
Heatsink should get warm in a few minutes, and you should be seeing temps of 60 max if its a crap heatsink. ( I dunno how good it is )

jow

Originally posted by Kali
Thing was it was 75 degrees in the BIOS menu right after booting.. would it not take a minute or two for the heatsink to begin conduction to cool the cpu down anyway?

Theres no case fan as yet, but this was with the case open.. [/B]

<deep voice and wide open eyes> : BELIEVE me.....

75 degrees ist NOT normal (the temperature sensors in the MB are not very accurat, but normally they report LOWER temps than they really are in the CPU ..... )

@gerry: you are right, the best way to mount a heatsink is to remove the MB out of the case. Therefore you can check if you have a gap between the CPU and the heatsink.

But I am sure it was the combination of the faulty pad and compound.

But, I am also sure you have tested it yesterday and you will post the results now....

jow

Scruff

Got the temperature down to 25-28C!
a nice drop of 40C.woohoo!
Makes up for the look yer wan in the shop gave me when i bought just nail varnish remover

Kali

wow this had slipped to the third page..

anyway.. got a coolermaster heatsink (cp5-7jd1) delivered this morning and just installed it with a touch of thermal compound.. temperatures back down to under 60 now (still no case fan).. which isn't too bad.. (a lot better than the above for the moment).

By the looks of it (and after installing this heatsink which was quite tight) the original Sharkoon seemed to sit on way too loose on top of the cpu, and it actually seems to be slightly bent, so its going back to Peats sometime this week.. as it looks like a flaw to me, and that was the cause of the original soaring heat problems.

JackKelly

are those temp's you guys are talking about overclocked temp's?
cuz my 2500 is running at 33c with the crappy boxed heatsink/fan. that seems very low in comparison to th 50's and 60's you's are talking about.

Balfa

on a side note, is there supposed to be a special tool for installing heatsinks? The little claw thing on one side of the spring seems to suggest so. I only ask because i recently got an XP1700 with the cheapest coolermaster i could find, and the spring was the fiercest i've ever seen. I was terrified of buggering the cpu or the screwdriver i was using to lever it down slipping and tearing something off the mobo.

What gives, man, what gives?

Cake Fiend

Don't use nail varnish remover to clean a heatsink, try to get pure acetone. Nail varnish remover can have crap like perfume in it, you don't want anything oil-based contaminating the thermal compound (even grease from your fingertips).

Balfa, some of the athlon heatsink clips are bastards to install, they need to be very tight to ensure a good contact with the CPU. It can be pretty unnerving installing some of the stronger ones...

jow

Originally posted by TimAy
are those temp's you guys are talking about overclocked temp's?
cuz my 2500 is running at 33c with the crappy boxed heatsink/fan. that seems very low in comparison to th 50's and 60's you's are talking about.

hi,

try to use the search option on boards.ie about cpu-temperatures

Some mainboards report different temperatures than others. So it it possible that you use the same cpu but get 30 degrees difference on different mainboards. the second thing is that you maybe use the temp-diode under the cpu and that diode doesn't contact your cpu. So the result might be a little toooooo low.

for example: on my office computer I have a XP2100 with watercooling and the temperature diode reports 36 degrees.
the water actually has 34 degrees so I can be realtively sure that the temperature is ok and I don't think that your boxed air-version can match my watercooler (exept you leave it outside in the winter )

jow

strat

i usually stick with silver based compounds, a tube of artic silver 2 i got 3 years ago still has plenty left after being used on about 15 cpu's always a good idea to 'conditition' the heatsink by rubbing in a small ammound of compund into it around the cpu area and then wipe off the excess then apply as normal

Kali

Originally posted by Sico
Don't use nail varnish remover to clean a heatsink, try to get pure acetone. Nail varnish remover can have crap like perfume in it, you don't want anything oil-based contaminating the thermal compound (even grease from your fingertips).

I used WD40 to remove the remains of the thermal pad from both the heatsink and the cpu.. worked wonders... very little effort required.

JackKelly

Balfa, some of the athlon heatsink clips are bastards to install, they need to be very tight to ensure a good contact with the CPU. It can be pretty unnerving installing some of the stronger ones... [/B]

My heatsink fits that describtion. I was sweating after trying to install it, it took me about four attempts before i had plucked up the courage to just mash the clip straight downwards. I was certain that the cpu would crack under the amount of pressure i put on the pads. all was alright in the end though. It was the hardest part of putting my PC together.

Cake Fiend

Originally posted by Kali
I used WD40 to remove the remains of the thermal pad from both the heatsink and the cpu.. worked wonders... very little effort required.

Bad idea. Oil-based cleaners and lubricants aren't designed to evaporate, so the tiny grooves in the heatsink will be filled with the oil (which isn't as thermally conductive as thermal paste, natch) rather than paste. Even fingertip grease and skin cells can reduce the effectiveness of thermal paste, which is why you should apply paste with plastic covering your finger (e.g. the corner of a plastic bag).
Strictly speaking you should only use isopropyl alcohol (or at least very pure acetone) to clean the actual CPU die.

I've had a few nerve-wracking experiences installing Athlon heatsinks, although having to replace 18 AXP sinks over one weekend taught me the knack required

Kali

bah still having problems with this.. both machines (one with a coolermaster and one with the sharkoon) are reading upto 65C.. now currently theres ddr266 in both machines (it should be 333 at 166mhz).. could this be causing the temperature readings to be off this much or the cause of the heat? (the bios is reading the cpus at xp1900 so its definitely running at 133)..

boo

jow

Originally posted by Kali
bah still having problems with this.. both machines (one with a coolermaster and one with the sharkoon) are reading upto 65C..

if the heatsink is in the correct position than it is really strange.

can you touch the heatsink after sometime? how hot does it get?
If it is _very_ hot (maybe around 60 degrees ) then there is a problem with the heatsink.

Have you checked the voltage of the cpu? maybe it is to high and that is the reason why?

Otherwise, I don't have any ideas :mad:

jow