Krav Maga

UbahOne

Used by israeli defense forces, FBI, Garda Drug Squad, Anti-terrorist groups bla bla bla. Have any of you heard of it? meant to be LETHAL.

heat

Ive heard of it before.They dont really think of it as a martial art but what Ive read and heard its ment to be very good.Only place I know of it going on is in Dublin.I think if you go to www.kravmagaireland.com or .ie it gives more information and locations

bombidol

excellent, ill be getting in contact with them soon methinks

UbahOne

Its one of the most vicious martial arts. I think they call it one anyway. Im not arsed looking the site again but i think they call it that me thinks...

Apparently they train you in the dark just like an intruder in your house or street situations with knives.. Sounds just like what you need for the kip that Dublin is...

bugler

I was in London for a couple of months and did it there. This board always gets a periodical query about it, usually because until recently Ireland had no instructor afaik. Unfortunately, now it has one but it's extremely expensive. Did you see the cost of the course? That's an awful lot to stump up. In London they required beginners to do an Induction course, which was 4 hours long, it taught the basics and set you up to join a more regular course. It cost 25 sterling to do this course. Then there was a two hour course every week, which cost a tenner. I can't explain why Ireland's set up is so lacklustre by comparision except for..well it always is isn't it?

As for the system itself, its strengths are its simplicity and practicality. You're taught very simple techniques to deal with headlocks, choke-holds aswell as the usual punches. It's not fancy, and has no new secret killer blows to teach

We were trained to defend ourselves out of a passive stance, with particular emphasis on simultaneously blocking and countering an attack. There was alot of focus on dealing with knife attacks, good fun, the instructor (Soo Dixon) brought along a load of ground-down and taped up knives.

I enjoyed it immensely..for reasons I knew I would beforehand:

There's no spiritual angle on it.
It's simple, your taught to hit for the groin, eyes, throat and base of the skull, using your knees, elbows, fists...kicks are usually just to the groin, no fancy twirly crap that won't come off in the pub p1ss-pot. It tells you how to deal with specific types of situations that could very likely arise should you be unfortunate.

UbahOne

Im going to be doing it along with kickboxing. I cant wait. Its really good by the sounds of it...

vasch_ro

just to clarify its not used by the Garda drug Squad
they use a syatem called Taiho jitsu (spelling maybe a little off)
I believe JLo was thought Krav Maga for her movie Enough

Unjaku

Vasch Ro- any idea who is teaching Taiho jutsu (effectively an umbrella term for japanese police martial arts) to the drugs squad?

As far as Krav Maga goes- It is a very fragmented style, with many different associations teaching different things. It has become so commericialised and 'watered down' in the U.S that in Israel many people are moving away from even using the name because of the negative connotations of this.

As far as I understand, any KM syllabus close to the military version of KM pioneered and used in Israel will be quality close quarter combat material. It's not a 'perfect' or 'ultimate' martial art, because there's no such thing, but it's supposed to be solid.

Then there is the commericialised strip-mall version of KM which is big in the states. Teacher certification is easy to get in this, and many strip-mall chain store dojo teachers are offering Krav Maga defense classes with dubious material.

Looked at the KM Ireland website, but there is little clear information on there beyond testimonials etc. Not much detail in the way of training methods and so on. I am pretty wary of websites which are self-promoting but light on information, to be honest.

Maybe these guys are great, but it's caveat emptor as usual.

bugler

Quite. However, the kravmaga.co.uk website does list Cumiskey as an instructor, and that site is run by Alwyn and Soo Dixon (who run a "School of Krav Maga"). Alwyn was trained by Eyal Yanilov himself, and indeed opened the UK branch of the International Krav Maga Federation. It doesn't say for sure but I assume that all the instructors listed are IKMF qualified like Soo and Alwyn, meaning that they "hold professional qualifications, one is an instructors diploma from the IKMF the other a teaching diploma from the Israeli Ministry of Education". So if you check your instructor is IKMF qualified you should be ok.

Happily, I managed to grab myself a copy of Imi Side-Or and Eyal Yanilov's book before I fled London, so hopefully that will keep me sharp

EDIT: Cumiskey is listed on the IKMF's site ( www.krav-maga.com ) as their Irish branch contact, so presumably his credentials are beyond reproach

EDIT 2: This is all assuming it is Mr Cumiskey who is running this. If it isn't then truly there is a usurper at work.

UbahOne

Interesting...

vasch_ro

the training is in house and is given to everyone not just the Drug Squad per say , according to my sources the standard is quite low

UbahOne

I want to do it and give it a shot. Im doing it with kickboxing. I want to see what its like. Im looking forward to it, ive heard excellent things about it...

mulls

Aidan Carroll is now offering Krav Maga Classes in Dublin at the Irene sports club Drumcondra Dublin 9. Aidan is one of only 4 Irishmen worldwide to hold the instructors diploma in Krav Maga. Krav maga is the most battle tested self defence and hand to hand combat system in the world today. For more info visit www.kravmaga.ie

dudara

AH, competition. Maybe having two different instructors in the country might make it more affordable.

I've been thinking about doing a course of it for ages now, but money has been the issue.

Ph3n0m

Maybe kravmaga.ie should fix their damn contact form - since it doesnt work

And maybe having their costs online too would be a nice idea

Cake Fiend

I've trained with Patrick Cumiskey (and afaik Millionaire on these here boards also has) and he's the real deal, trained in Israel, etc. He was telling us stories about training with the 'assassination squad' over lunch

I wouldn't call KM a 'martial art' as such, because there's no 'art' about it - it's brutal, instinctive and it gets the job done. Unfortunately, the price is too high over here for me to consider regular training (here's hoping the new competition will alleviate that).

You can do weekend intensive courses which I think are very effective and a good introduction to KM (8 hours a day of bashing the crap out of pads and mitts teaches you a lot about how much energy you can muster up if you have someone screaming at / attacking you).

Millionaire

Krav Maga is full self defence system.

I train with Patrick Cumiskey who was the 1st Irish man to be an instructor, and also teach for him on occassion. I am also certified as a KM instructor, though I am certified under a different association Israeli Krav Maga Assoc, and I spent a very long and intensive month in Israel doing this under Hiam Gidon.

There is a few different organisations world wide. In Europe IKMF is biggest , headed by Eyal and most european teachers are under him, though I think a few are leaving, and some are coming the assoc I am under now. The Americans Darren Levine, has traded marked the name and logo, so that is the reason alot of Isreali in USA are changing then name of what they teach, because legally they cannot use the KM name in USA. There is a few other associations too. Anyway that is all polictical BS, they all were trained, and came out of the same gym in Netanya i Isreal, where I was trained.

KM is a full system, what we teachin Dublin, there is other parts added in from RBSD systems, which use more physchological training. In KM they do not do much of the physchology of street violence.

For example the full system, you are punching off a position similar to Kickboxing/Thai. There is all boxing punches, other strikes palms, finger jabs etc, kicks, including high kicks and spinning kicks , escapes from chokes, grabs, etc, throws, take downs, clinch fighting, knees, elbow, join locking, and in Israel they are very good grapplers and ground fighters too. defence against weapon, knife, stick, hand gun, and getting into it assault rifle, 3rd party protection. etc etc. It is a very comprehensive system to say the least.

But like anything it is the basics that will save your butt and that is what we concentrate in ireland. There is also a grading system, belts, but that is not pushed, if one wanted in the IKMA to become a black belt it would take well over 10 years or more and many many trips to Israel. and a 2 day exam. I watch one and its tough. so personally I do not bother to follow the grades.

Yeah the americans have commercialized it, teach the basics, and well, kind of made a balls of it I think. where if your in israel training, its very different and much tougher to say the least.

Forget the politics. Forget KM factions. Learn the basics, get excellent at them, pick 2 or 3 techniques that suit you best like a palm shot , a knee , etc and drill the hell out of it until its second nature and you have something good.

pma-ire

Anyone wanting to do Krav get onto Millionare!!

He'll set you right

Taiho jutsu is being done in the North http://www.nitja.org/forum/nitja.asp may not be the boys??

This is an international site...
http://www.itjf.org/rank.html

paddyc

I'd go with millionaire to train the KM, the lad lives for it, so i'd leran it from him... as far s i know hes starting a class up in the next few weeks....


any details onit there?


paddy

Millionaire

Yo Thanks Paddy!

12 Oct Wed in rathmines, beginners only and its KM altered for the street. be do not need to learn how disarm assault rifles just yet!

this will suit beginners adults who want to learn, for want of a better word, to avoid or dispatch a typical mugger or thug fast and deadly fashion.

I am only going to be teaching the easy to learn, and most applicable parts of KM , which can be learned very fast. but like wwII combatives.

If you want to send your mom, dad , or bro or sis along contact me. You to yooouuuuuu! PM me

Cake Fiend

Any more details Millionaire? Might know some people around D6 to send along

Millionaire

send us a PM thanks mate

Im2Lazy

Hi UbahOne,

I've been doing KM you over a year with Patrick Cumiskey & Millionaire & they really good guys to train with.

Hope you come along & give it a go.

Im2Lazy

Hi Mulls,
I'm just wondering if you've trained with the kravmaga.ie guys, I'd like to hear what you thought - if you haven't I hope you're getting paid for doing there advestising. You've only posted twice & both times it was exactly the same thing.

You said "Aidan is one of only 4 Irishmen worldwide to hold the instructors diploma in Krav Maga". Where is Steve Markey from ?

I know of 4 is your 4 the same :
1.Patrick Cumiskey
2.Millionaire Aka Gerry Nolan
3.Aidan Carroll
4.Peter Muldoon this isn't you is it Mulls ?

Millionaire

whose Steve Markey? Is he a KM instructor here?

I think there was some irish guy teaching KM in Kerry once, but he went back to USA.

Apparently the American KM crowd kravmaga.com their bringing it user friendly route. KM for Sissies! LOL!!!

pma-ire

Millionaire wrote:

Apparently the American KM crowd kravmaga.com their bringing it user friendly route. KM for Sissies! LOL!!!

And thats just not on!!

Im2Lazy

Millionaire wrote:

whose Steve Markey? Is he a KM instructor here?

I think there was some irish guy teaching KM in Kerry once, but he went back to USA.

Apparently the American KM crowd kravmaga.com their bringing it user friendly route. KM for Sissies! LOL!!!

Steve Markey is the other KM instructor with Kravmaga.ie him & Aidan Carroll are teaching together. I don't think he's Irish though. (could be wrong)

ando

I'm starting my course with mr Cumiskey in a few weeks for a 12 week course! Can't wait

Millionaire

Yes you shall enjoy and you will learn alot too. Probably be there at various stages training myself, so see ya then, and trian hard when you start. :-)

LegacyUser

Would love to give this a go but it is just so out of the way.I am based in Blackrock/Foxrock. Any classes out this direction?

Im2Lazy

Hi Cheesedude,

Not that I know of unfortunately.

If you can't make it to Patrick's 12 week course why not try the weekend course (Saturday & Sunday) it's usually on in a hotel in the city centre or more likely at the Belvadere Rugby Club. You'll only have 2 days of travelling then rather than 12.

It'll give you all the basics.

mulls

Hi Im2Lazy sorry took so long to answer ur question - No I havn't trained with them ....yet! I'm not sure about Steve Markey but he's not one of the kravmaga.ie instructors. The KM instructor teaching with Aidan Carroll is a UK guy called Steve Maycock and his details are listed on the kravmaga.ie site

ando

had the first night on monday night. Twas brilliant and an eye opener. I already feel more confident knowing a few different things that I can do to defend myself. I think a few others were shell shocked at the end of the night!

Im2Lazy

I was just the same Ando when I started my course with Patrick, I was stunned how much I learned.

I hope you continue to enjoy it as much as I did & still do.

padraic mchale

ando wrote:

had the first night on monday night. Twas brilliant and an eye opener. I already feel more confident knowing a few different things that I can do to defend myself. I think a few others were shell shocked at the end of the night!

Are you still doing the Krav Maga Ando? How are you finding it? I am starting the Jan30th 12 week course with Patrick Cumiskey and am really looking forward to it.

fianna.5u.com

Does anyone have an issue that its used by the Israeli Defense Forces?

I wouldn't dream of learning it, or have anything to do with it. Besides I haven't seen any KM guys in Pride, K-1, UFC or anything. I'm sure there are excpetions that prove the rule though. I'm also sure there is a good reason for their absence from MMA, like "In KM you might rip a guys heart out, so with the rules of MMA it would take away its best weapon" which of course is an Uzi, impossible to aim, shoot bullets at a high rate, usually in the direction of palestinian children.

Peace
Pearse

Millionaire

I was in Israel to learn an effective self defence system, from some of the top guys in the world. yes some current and some ex special force IDF guys.
Was happy to train with some of the top guys in the world. and guys who have seen action too.

Does it bother me that its IDF...No! Do I support that counrties politics...No.

I know where your coming from exactly, re the IDF reference. ; - )

You do MMA, would it bother you that ex British Soldiers or Orangemen maybe doing MMA or training or fighting in competitions that you are involved in? (same sort of argument...do ya think?)

Re KM in Pride...yes there are MMA KM people....UFC had one from Canada (cannot remember name...but KM instructur Moni Azik in Toronto is his trainer)

Plus a bud of mine who is KM instructor in Holland, fights in league below Pride(i think) ...do not ask me name as I do not follow the sport at all, he fights as Indra James..and has done Vale Tudo, and MMA. I just email him asked him if he would post or had any links ot his fights.

KM is a self defence system....it has depending on what faction of KM you trained in an extensive ground fight system, for example Israeli KM Assoc alot of them are excellent ground fighters and in clinch too. Me I am not...just learning that part/

So yes it is a self defence system, with alot of defence at higher levels against weapons and gun, and assault rifle, and hostage situations.

Very good system for an average person to train in, and no heart rips! but eye, groin and throat attacks totally. Does it have all the answers....NO..Not at all. No one does. But the average Joe looking to defend themselves...does not have the ability, desire , time to train etc to fight in a cage etc. That takes alot of dedication.

KM is great for the average person to learn something to help them Survive and Escape..not win Pride. For military KM offers a alot too, but a different angle on KM for that.

any more questions???

G


http://kravmagaisraeli.com/EN/hay2.htm
some KM ground fighting

Profile on Yigal one of my instructors in Israel...if you go to bottom there is links to some Examples of how potential KM in an armed situation is used...personally I do not practice this stuff much

http://www.realfighting.com/0102/yigal.htm

Colm_OReilly

Pearse,

Although I agree with you on the Israeli issue lets try to keep politics off this board.

Colm

fianna.5u.com

Millionare: THanks for the reply

Zen: Sorry, will do

peace

Im2Lazy

Glad to see politics being elimanated from this board, as it's definately not present in any KM class.

BTW there is a few guys involved in KM who have been in UFC, Pride etc obviously these guys didn't just do KM but who is confined to one style now in MMA events (apart from the guys who want to lose, that is)

I know 3 guys off hand :
Carlos Newton - the guy Millionaire couldn't remember his name
Oleg Taktarov - still trains & teaches on occasion in the KM National Training Center in LA
Bas Rutten is also involved with KM, he trains & teaches seminars with Amir Perets, he even appears on Perets KM DVD's.

As far as I can remember all of them managed quiet well without their UZI's.

fianna.5u.com

Carlos Newton - Submission "expert" that came from a JJ background.

Oleg Taktarov - Again won by submissions, Sambo expert

Bas Rutten - Mauy Thai

Millionaire

Re KM and Styles..

and this really became so Obvious to me when I saw KM in Israel...

KM is a mix of boxing, kickboxing, Muay Thai, Judo, wrestling, JJ, BJJ, and some Aikido with a bunch of "dirty tricks" and WW II combatives techniques....eye gouges, claws and rips to face and eyes, throat strikes etc...

For Example Moni Azik who trained Carlos Newton...and was trained my founder Imi , is also a Judo champion and Ju Jujitsu too.

Hiam Gidon who I was trained under in Israel and is also the original successor and student of IMI... was a champion boxer and wrestler...and you can see the wreslting stuff in his techniques....which was all new to me.

Imi Letchenfeld who founded KM was an International Wrestling Champ and a champ boxer too.

Man...KM is so full of grappling and ground stuff... I was so amazed when I went over there and saw that...I did not realise how much about 50% .

The most popular brand of KM in europe IKMF (Eyal Yanilov) and The American KM Assoc...do a much more strike orientated version of KM.

1st class in Israel , Yigal whom I posted a link about, I did one of my techniques and he just picked me up and turned me upside down, slammed me into the matt, and ankle locked me...and I was like "WHAT DA FFFFFFF"!!!!!! happened there.....???!?!????! . and the very same guy "hung"" with the Israeli BJJ champ for 7 minutes (Yigal had a broken rib at the time which was hurtin him) before he got defeated.

However, the one thing pees me off about them, is that they will not acknowledge often where their techniques were "borrow" from.

So that is KM, and what it is. of course the stick, knife, gun diarams, are all their own creations. and even go on to real advanced stuff just as knife against assault rifle, defending hostage held with hand gun, etc etc.

So what my training plan is, I do my "standard" KM stuff, back this up my starting to learn Muay Thai this year, and have to learn grappling and ground (which is what I do not know at all) . and practice weapon disarms too.

john kavanagh

just a quick question...

who's the israeli bjj champ? where did this 7min match happen? any other details about this instance? just curious

Millionaire

john kavanagh wrote:

just a quick question...

who's the israeli bjj champ? where did this 7min match happen? any other details about this instance? just curious

Hi John

Happened within last 1 -2 years. champs name I do not know...for the record...just going on what Yigal told me.

Just to be clear was not a match or competition...but was at a Gracie seminar in Israel.

It was a....is it "roll" the right term??, Yigal said he "hung" for 7 mins before he (Yigal KM guy) had to tap out.

I am going on what he told me, I guess I have no reason to believe he was BSing me, based on what I saw of his abilities over my month there.

These guys in Israel live , breath and eat KM, it is their life, train every spare minute.

They are MASSIVE into training for the ground. In the IKMA this past 5 years they have gone really heavy into ground fighting. Again they would go nuts if I said this to them, But John, what they are doing is essentially BJJ,mixed with wrestling and judo. and 50% of their training time is on the ground.

To quote Hiam Gidon see www.israelikravmaga.com , he said to me "Gerry if you cannot fight on the ground you are a dead man!" .

I was a bit peed off by the amount of ground work....because I did not know any...LOL....sour grapes.

Now that is just the Israeli Krav Maga Assoc...training centre in Netanya I am referring to. What I am saying about ground would not represent KM in Ireland...nor indeed my KM which is striking orientated.

As I said I was amazed and to be honest....I guess a little alarmed...my the high amount of ground training!!!

john kavanagh

cool....just seems a strange story to relay tbh. i've never heard of a 'israeli bjj champ'. seems kinda funny to time a roll with someone at a seminar??

"But John, what they are doing is essentially BJJ,mixed with wrestling and judo"

sure like we said during our session it doesnt matter what label you give it, the only thing that matters is the training method - progressive resistance to 'keep it real'

"Gerry if you cannot fight on the ground you are a dead man!"

well millions of people have had fights not knowing ground and have not died!! but i get his point and its defo part of the puzzle if you want to be a complete martial athlete

jk

Millionaire

john kavanagh wrote:

'. seems kinda funny to time a roll with someone at a seminar??


jk

do not know John if ya met mny israelis or not....but I tell ya this....israelis regardess of styles or even no training at all....would roll ANYWHERE!!!!

its in their nature!

or as they'd say on the border where I m from...."ignorant huresssssss"!
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!

john kavanagh

no that was not my point. i'd roll with anyone at a seminar

my point was if someone rolled with me in a non-competitive environment (ie seminar) and then timed it and went around telling people how long they lasted before tapping out i'd think it was a bit odd.

rolling around with someone at a seminar is one thing, fighting in a competition is a very different thing.

Millionaire

semniar point taken and agreed upon.

as I was saying....not to be pointing fingers at other cultures (ok I did antropology at uni ...so i am a wee bit allowed a comment ) israelis are very very very in your face people.

Ok i ll put it bluntly...they would not roll....they 'd try to take ya out and get one up on you.... and thats not about him, its an observation in general.

why are they like that....no sure...

but I sepculate their all in army from 18 - 21 ( females from 18 - 20) and do 1 month a year until 40 after that... their a small country smaller than ireland and all the arab world wants to drive them into the sea. so I think thats why their so eager to "put it up" to anyone.

they have a sort of survival attitude or something. you have to spend a period of time there to see and hear and feel what i mean.

right off to Rosies for a pint!!!!!!!!

TwoKingMick

Yeah, any isreal(ie, y?) backpackers you meet don't tend to get on well with the rest of the world. But thats a bit off topic and political, so i digress.
I must give this krav maga lark a try soon, if only it wasn't impratically expensive.

Millionaire

no need to try KM Mick...your doing it already pretty much. just add in a few illegal blows and ya got it! serious! thats about the height of it for unarmed.

ok stick and knife defence, another few hours and you ll have it. but ya got to practice a bit with a willing friend to get it better.


hand gun comes next... sort of same as knife....but No 1 get out of line of fire...an remember when disarming keep pistol pointed AWAY from you at all times.

Rifle and all the other ****e me not know...but I got Eyal Yanilovs ) the self proclaimed only Expert in the worlds book which covers that, and btwn us we will get that down over a saturday afternoon! pints are part of that of course!

We will set up our own Federation. I will make you an instructor, as long as I can be a bit more senior of course!

All for the price of a few pints! good value or what???

Christ I should take comedy script writing up!! LOL!!!

john kavanagh

"We will set up our own Federation. I will make you an instructor, as long as I can be a bit more senior of course! "

BWAHAHAH i think u just nailed the thinking behind about 90% of martial arts associations:D