Didi Hamann out until November!

Bannor · 30-07-2003 1:14pm #1

Liverpoolfc.tv

30 July 2003 : by Paul Eaton
Hamann out until November

Liverpool today suffered a massive blow when it was revealed Didi Hamann is out of action until November after suffering a recurrence of a shin injury.

Hamann thought his shin problem was behind him after going under the surgeon's knife during the summer, but it flared up again upon his return from the Far East this week and he underwent surgery in Germany last night.

The news will come as a massive blow to Gerard Houllier as he prepares his side for the start of the new season, but he says the Reds have to take this setback on the chin.

Houllier said: "It is a blow for the player and for the club. Things like this show why it is so important we have a strong squad."

mike65 · 30-07-2003 1:33pm

Don't worry we've still got Diao and Cheyrou in midfield!

Mike.

ciano · 30-07-2003 1:49pm

Originally posted by mike65
Don't worry we've still got Diao and Cheyrou in midfield!

Mike.

Exactly! Liverpool will get nothing more than a top 3/4 position.

Houllier to get the sack by xmas??

Bannor · 30-07-2003 1:51pm

Diao is out for 6 weeks. It doesn't leave many options for central midfield on the opening day of the season.

Gerrard - suspended
Hamann - injured
Diao - injured

Leaving the selection to two from following:
Murphy
Biscan
Carragher
Cheyrou
Welsh - opportunity to live up to the 'Next Steven Gerrard' tag
Le Tallec - not likely

It will essentially be an untested midfield against Chelsea.

p.pete · 30-07-2003 2:12pm

Originally posted by ciano
Exactly! Liverpool will get nothing more than a top 3/4 position.

Houllier to get the sack by xmas??

3/4 th would be an improvement at least - knock Newcastle back down where they belong.

We'll play Kewell behind a front 2 and then a 3 man midfield. Gerrard and 2 from the rest. Chelsea match will be a problem without Gerrard tho:mad:

Villain · 30-07-2003 3:43pm

Healy's still going abegging for free!!

p.pete · 30-07-2003 4:14pm

At least we know about Hamanns' injury now - we have loads of midfielders, not of his standard unfortunately but at least we can figure out a settled team for the duration of his absence as oppossed to going all the way through pre-season presuming that he would be part of the team.

GuanYin · 30-07-2003 4:25pm

Originally posted by p.pete
3/4 th would be an improvement at least - knock Newcastle back down where they belong.

Yeah, the cheek of them playing exciting attacking footbal.

Down with that sort of thing!

Originally posted by p.pete

We'll play Kewell behind a front 2 and then a 3 man midfield. Gerrard and 2 from the rest.

Hrmmm, don't you mean Kewell behind micheal owen and then a 5 man central defence?

I wonder if GH is having trouble explaining the concept of "attacking positions" to his squad.

p.pete · 30-07-2003 4:33pm

Originally posted by sykeirl
Yeah, the cheek of them playing exciting attacking footbal.

Down with that sort of thing!

Hrmmm, don't you mean Kewell behind micheal owen and then a 5 man central defence?

I wonder if GH is having trouble explaining the concept of "attacking positions" to his squad.

Yawn

GuanYin · 30-07-2003 4:38pm

Originally posted by p.pete
Yawn

an excellent summary of Liverpool

p.pete · 30-07-2003 4:51pm

Originally posted by sykeirl
an excellent summary of Liverpool

Works pretty good with most of your arguments also. Guess it must be generic.

Villain · 30-07-2003 4:54pm

Originally posted by p.pete
Works pretty good with most of your arguments also. Guess it must be generic.

lol I put a tenner on sykeirl in the 3rd round!!

p.pete · 30-07-2003 4:57pm

Originally posted by irish1
lol I put a tenner on sykeirl in the 3rd round!!

Darn, about to leave my pc and won't get to respond til tomorrow, he's gonna get loads of cheap jabs in.

Villain · 30-07-2003 5:02pm

Originally posted by p.pete
Darn, about to leave my pc and won't get to respond til tomorrow, he's gonna get loads of cheap jabs in.

I'm sure you'l find some pool fans you support GH's boring football to fill in for ya.

GuanYin · 30-07-2003 5:06pm

Originally posted by p.pete
Works pretty good with most of your arguments also. Guess it must be generic.

Well I haven't seen any retorts from you yet, just "cheap jabs"
so I could hardly call it an arguement but generally Liverpool is a boring topic of conversation so I guess you are right.

Originally posted by p.pete
Darn, about to leave my pc and won't get to respond til tomorrow, he's gonna get loads of cheap jabs in.

Hey, I gave my opinion on Liverpool, you slagged me off personally so I think its a bit rich suggesting that I'm the one getting cheap jabs in.

Ronan|Raven · 30-07-2003 6:19pm

Ladies please handbags at dawn is the only way to solve this.

It is a dman shame ot see Didi Out till November , lets hope he makes an earlier recovery. It would be nice to see Gerrard take his position and let Le Tallec have a creative role in the midfield.

p.pete · 30-07-2003 11:32pm

Originally posted by sykeirl
Well I haven't seen any retorts from you yet, just "cheap jabs"
so I could hardly call it an arguement but generally Liverpool is a boring topic of conversation so I guess you are right.

Hey, I gave my opinion on Liverpool, you slagged me off personally so I think its a bit rich suggesting that I'm the one getting cheap jabs in.

Hmmm, you start joining in a thread related to DHs' injury with the already much written about notion (more than a notion, I actually agree) that Liverpool don't play attacking football. Slightly off topic and a "cheap jab" that could and has been thrown on many a thread now (thus the yawn).

Your possibly going to say something along the lines of me being the one to mention to mention Newcastle in the first place. Granted I did but that was in response to ciano doing the same thing as yourself, going off topic with suggestions of GHs' removal before Christmas and only finishing 3rd/4th. Both of these are possible but hardly related to Hamanns' injury. I mentioned Newcastle because if we're to get to fourth we have to outdo one of the teams ahead of us - Chelsea you're thinking of betting on yourself for the league and ManU and Arsenal will be as strong as last year - I went for castle.

Yep, you gave your opinion on Liverpool. I gave my opion on Hamanns' injury - do you want to do the same?

GuanYin · 30-07-2003 11:41pm

heh!

Well I think they have noone to replace him adequately and Kewell was (or at least should have been) bought for another job, not as cover for Hamann.

Its a huge set back and GH seems to indicate (whether subtley or not) a revolution every year and it never happens.

Liverpool aren't making any progress while all the teams you mentioned are.

It will be a tough start to the season for pool and I see them struggling to finish in the top 5.

p.pete · 30-07-2003 11:50pm

Thats more like it - something relevant. Don't think we actually have a replacement for Hamann. He was out last season and we didn't win for 10 or 15 league games in his absence.

Kewell couldn't possibly and won't be a replacement. You never know, we may have to change our style:D

We do actually have at least 1 revolution every year. Just think how many corners we turned last year! I suppose if some of the corners are going in opposing directions they will cancel each other out - but I'm pretty sure we got at least four more corners in one direction than the other.

Struggling to finish top 5 is a little harsh - I don't think there is any teams below us that have improved significantly but I would agree that we will have a struggle to overturn any of the 4 teams ahead of us. Entirely possible but it won't be easy.

If you call Bowyer progress then Newcastle made some during the pre-season. United definitely didn't progress, but I don't think they lost ground either. As for Arsenal - they have as strong a squad and if they can get it together they will crush any team. Wenger is reckoning Viera will sign his contract soon and Bergkamp is there another year so all should be happy there (except the Royal Bank of Scotland - think Arsenal are causing them a few headaches:D )

marct · 31-07-2003 2:29pm

It always surprises me when Newcastle and Chelsea are seen as having made more progress than Liverpool. Granted Liverpool had a bad season last year but it was their worst in some time. Everyone seems to forget that they finished second the year before. Thats right, ahead of one of the so-called 'big two'. There was a shortage of attacking flair last year definitely. And teams were no longer surprised by the solidiy of the defense. But this has been addressed with the purshace of the highest scoring mid-fielder last year in the shape of Kewell. GH knows that defense alone is not going to win them the Prem and has said that this will be this seasons priority. Newcastle have had one good season and all of a sudden they are better than the Pool. Chelsea will be an unknown quantity as there has been an influx of first- teamers who will need time to gel. Its definitely not as clear cut as some on the boards have suggested.

p.pete · 31-07-2003 2:59pm

Thats all true marct, and I'm quietly confident that this season will be a lot better than last. At the moment the argument against us is still pretty strong - so it's a bit pointless arguing the case of the pool too strenuously until a few weeks into the season and they're looking good (hopefully).

If we can get a result against Chelsea it will be an excellent start. This will be difficult to achieve for quite a few reasons:
- Hamann out
- Gerrard banned
- Chelsea should be hitting the ground running at the start of the season because it is vital for them to qualify for CL.

Fingers crossed though:)

GuanYin · 31-07-2003 3:34pm

Originally posted by marct
It always surprises me when Newcastle and Chelsea are seen as having made more progress than Liverpool. Granted Liverpool had a bad season last year but it was their worst in some time. .

If you define progress as steadily rising up the league table in finishing position then I think its not only fair, but bloody obvious that Chelsea and Newcastle have made more progress than Liverpool (who have in fact stuttered up and down the league table.

And this is where Liverpool suffer, consistency. They seem to perform in different ways against different teams. One commentator commented that Liverpool play better when the opponents have the ball, which is why they tend to do well against decent teams where they counter attack and then struggle against crap ones, as they have the posession, but none of the guile or ability to use it. I think that is their main problem

In a perfect world with a Kewell, Hamann and Gerrard* midfield then I think liverpool could pull something special off.

unfortunately I can't see them all managing to be on the field at the same time more than 15 league games this season.

Comments? Critique?

*(if gerrard actually grows up and concentrates on football and not mouthing off.....the difference between him and Viera is more than just discipline, when Viera falters, at least he will have worked his socks off in the game, Gerrard tends to have bad games, get frustrated and then get sent off)

marct · 31-07-2003 4:23pm

Originally posted by sykeirl
If you define progress as steadily rising up the league table in finishing position then I think its not only fair, but bloody obvious that Chelsea and Newcastle have made more progress than Liverpool (who have in fact stuttered up and down the league table.

*(if gerrard actually grows up and concentrates on football and not mouthing off.....the difference between him and Viera is more than just discipline, when Viera falters, at least he will have worked his socks off in the game, Gerrard tends to have bad games, get frustrated and then get sent off)

Re- progress- They did rise steadily up the table to 2nd then had one blip last year. This season is crucial and it is definitely too early to count them out. Its not bloody obvious at all with regards to Chelsea and Newcastle- neither of whom have broken up the big two.

Re- discipline-OK, thats just crazy talk! Gerrard has been sent off 3 times does anyone even know how many times Vieira has been sent off??? Saying Vieira's discipline is better than Gerrards is bot borne out by cold hard facts. Now if you had just said Vieira was a better player I would have agreed with you;)

GuanYin · 31-07-2003 4:27pm

Originally posted by marct
Saying Vieira's discipline is better than Gerrards is bot borne out by cold hard facts.

Where did I say that exactly?

I just said that Gerrard loses the head when he's having a bad game.

Viera loses the head but has usually played a stormer up til then.

All I suggested was

Viera getting sent off so much..... I dunno

Gerrards disciplinary issues.... down to bad attitude.

p.pete · 31-07-2003 4:28pm

Originally posted by sykeirl
*(if gerrard actually grows up and concentrates on football and not mouthing off.....the difference between him and Viera is more than just discipline, when Viera falters, at least he will have worked his socks off in the game, Gerrard tends to have bad games, get frustrated and then get sent off)

The poor performances from Gerrard are widely attributed to issues in his personal life which I'm sure I don't need to go into. He's looking back to his best towards the end of last season (getting sent off against Chelsea was a real pain in the ass).

I know Liverpool are only as good as their last season, which was poor - but personally I don't think any team in the premier league was particularly brilliant. Liverpool were definitely worse than previous seasons - but on a European level the English league as a whole lost a lot of ground to the Italians and a moderate amount of ground to the Spanish league.

The only teams in the top five who I would consider to have improved last season were Chelsea and Newcastle. Arsenal were much better two season ago (any arguments?) - ManU won the league by default - they were terrible in patches like everyone else. If you take away pools 15 - 20 (minor) game patch in the middle of the season they were actually equal to any of the top 5 at the start and end of the season.

p.pete · 31-07-2003 4:38pm

Another Gerrard related point - he's 4 years younger than Viera. So in 4 years he will be at least slightly improved, that bodes well.

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2003/7/30/sports/5949089&sec=sports

marct · 31-07-2003 4:40pm

Originally posted by marct
Re- progress- They did rise steadily up the table to 2nd then had one blip last year. This season is crucial and it is definitely too early to count them out. Its not bloody obvious at all with regards to Chelsea and Newcastle- neither of whom have broken up the big two.

Re- discipline-OK, thats just crazy talk! Gerrard has been sent off 3 times does anyone even know how many times Vieira has been sent off??? Saying Vieira's discipline is better than Gerrards is bot borne out by cold hard facts. Now if you had just said Vieira was a better player I would have agreed with you;)

Gerrard could definitely do with some anger managemnt classes as does lose the head on occasion but suggesting that King Patrick does'nt is very unrealistic. Do you think he only got sent off when Arsenal were doing well? He does dig in when the going gets tough but he cant be brilliant from the dressing room- which is where he ends up a hell of a lot more and earlier than Gerrard.

Jodus · 01-08-2003 11:45am

Originally posted by sykeirl
Its a huge set back and GH seems to indicate (whether subtley or not) a revolution every year and it never happens.

Couldn't be further from the truth. He has always said evolution, not revolution. In the last three years, he's brought in players just to fill gaps, not for wholesale changes. Riise, Dudek, Kirkland and Baros two years ago, Diouf last year, Kewell and Finnan this year. All positive, quality signings, all bought to address specific weaknesses,

Originally posted by sykeirl
Liverpool aren't making any progress while all the teams you mentioned are.

So finishing 4th, they 3rd (with 3 trophies), then 2nd - that wasn't progress? Does the fact that they have one bad season suddenly negate all the previous progress?

Originally posted by sykeirl
It will be a tough start to the season for pool and I see them struggling to finish in the top 5.

That is just hilarious! Who's going to push them out of the top 5? Spurs? Blackburn? Wolves???

You cannot possible back up that argument. Last season was littered with injuries to key players, loss of form by usually reliable players, and costly individual errors. Or is that all GH's fault?

p.pete · 01-08-2003 11:58am

Originally posted by Jodus
Last season was littered with injuries to key players, loss of form by usually reliable players, and costly individual errors. Or is that all GH's fault?

Well said Jodus.

One of the big fears I have is that injuries could cause problems again. Kewell and Finnan are both going to struggle to be fully fit. Hamann is obviously out. One of the people that could have replaced him, Diao is also out (would have been a good chance to see his worth).

Any more injuries and things will be tricky again. As it stands we should be alright.

GuanYin · 01-08-2003 12:03pm

Originally posted by Jodus
Couldn't be further from the truth. He has always said evolution, not revolution.

No, they have "turned the corner" numourous times last season according to the man himself.
Of course, they are now at a "phase of plateau"

In reality, the champions league place is what it is about and 2 appearances out of 4 seasons is not good enough. Liverpool have not competed with Arsenal and United and under Houllier, I don't think they ever will.

Originally posted by Jodus
So finishing 4th, they 3rd (with 3 trophies), then 2nd - that wasn't progress? Does the fact that they have one bad season suddenly negate all the previous progress?

Yes it does.
Newcastle have been steadily improving and strengthening their squad since Robson came in. They were hit hard with injuries too last season yet have still managed to maintain the champions league placing. why? Because they have progressed. Their squad is bigger and stronger and they were the only other team able to mount a challenge for a top 2 position. You're only as good as your last season and until I see something to change my mind, I'll continue believing that Newcastle are ahead of Liverpool in the curve

Chelsea have had it harder. They were in turmoil when Ranieri took over. He didn't have a great first season or alot of money but he has slowly done things the right way. Now he has money and Chelsea have made some powerful signings. Will it all work straight away? I don't know. But given the progress Chelsea made last season (where they were, as my friend loves reminding me, the most consistantly placed premiership performer) I'd find it hard to see them go backwards. Ranieri is an excellent manager.

Originally posted by Jodus
That is just hilarious! Who's going to push them out of the top 5? Spurs? Blackburn? Wolves???

Blackburn yes, I do see them challenging. Everton weren't too far behind either. While the gap between the top two and the rest is marginally closing, the next 6-7 teams down seem to be closing at a great rate.

Originally posted by Jodus
You cannot possible back up that argument. Last season was littered with injuries to key players, loss of form by usually reliable players, and costly individual errors. Or is that all GH's fault?

Well thats not an argument its an opinion. One which I am more than entitled to.

If you want to question backing up arguments, tell me, if GH has bought so well and and strengthened his squad, how come they were hit so hard by injuries?

Injuries and individual errors effect everyone and are no excuse for underperforming. Its a squad effort and either teh squad can cope, or it can't. I think Liverpool have the strength to make a push, but not the depth. And thats why they'll struggle for the CL place.

p.pete · 01-08-2003 12:13pm

Sykeirl, that is an awful lot of opinions regarding a team who by your own admission you don't pay very much attention to.

You don't watch them for the perfectly sound reason that they bore/frustrate you, you'd rather watch Blackburn or Arsenal because of the entertainment value.

This clouds your judgement (needless to say, supporting them clouds mine - but I do try to see the negatives).

As a Forest supporter you know that it is easy to make rapid improvements when you start from a lower position. Making the final push to catch up with the group above takes that extra bit of effort. The teams below Blackburn may be catching up, but the closer they get the harder it is to improve.

Blackburn have disimproved. Their aging strikeforce is now a little older and they will miss the service they received from Duff. They will still be a useful and entertaining team, you will still enjoy watching them but they won't be there or there abouts at the end.

GuanYin · 01-08-2003 12:26pm

Originally posted by p.pete
Sykeirl, that is an awful lot of opinions regarding a team who by your own.
<snip>
Blackburn have disimproved. Their aging strikeforce is now a little older and they will miss the service they received from Duff. They will still be a useful and entertaining team, you will still enjoy watching them but they won't be there or there abouts at the end.

Oh come on, I watch every football game I can during a season.
The only time I don't watch Liverpool matches is when they conflict with other games, but I think I've watched maybe 6-7 pool games with you last season and many others by myself.

On the otherhand I have seen less of Blackburn (and enjoy watching Duff, not so much them) but from the reports I've heard and the matches I have seen, I think Souness has done an amazing job. Duff's loss will be great, but Blackburn weren't a one man team.

Don't get me wrong. Liverpool are a strong side. But Hamanns injury and the lack of depth liverpool have will, imho, be there undoing.

marct · 01-08-2003 12:29pm

Sykierl, how can you say that the Pool have not competed with Arsenal and Manu? The season before last they finished 2nd. Just in case thats SECOND- ahead of ManU!! If that isnt competing what is?? Was it an illusion? Did I imagine it??Your contentions about the better progress of Newcastle/ Chelsea are simply laughable. Newcastle havent won a single trophy in over 50 years. Chelsea have done well but have huge strides to make to make all the new first teamers gel. Blackburn have a canny manager doing good business with excellent and talented replacements coming in but they have a huge amount to do to get into the top 5.

GuanYin · 01-08-2003 12:35pm

Originally posted by marct
Sykierl, how can you say that the Pool have not competed with Arsenal and Manu? The season before last they finished 2nd. Just in case thats SECOND- ahead of ManU!! If that isnt competing what is?? Was it an illusion? Did I imagine it??Your contentions about the better progress of Newcastle/ Chelsea are simply laughable. Newcastle havent won a single trophy in over 50 years. Chelsea have done well but have huge strides to make to make all the new first teamers gel. Blackburn have a canny manager doing good business with excellent and talented replacements coming in but they have a huge amount to do to get into the top 5.

Bah.
We'll just all have to agree to differ. Its hard to get people to be objective when it comes to the teams they support.

Pool haven't competed because they haven't won a premiership title. Utd and Arsenal have. When they finished 2nd, Arsenal were so far ahead the season was over anyway. 2-3-4 place the differences is an extra game against a minnow that should be won (in most cases).

Blackburn did compete briefly. But now they are clearly a uefa cup team.

p.pete · 01-08-2003 12:36pm

Originally posted by marct
Sykierl, how can you say that the Pool have not competed with Arsenal and Manu? The season before last they finished 2nd. Just in case thats SECOND- ahead of ManU!! If that isnt competing what is?? Was it an illusion? Did I imagine it??Your contentions about the better progress of Newcastle/ Chelsea are simply laughable. Newcastle havent won a single trophy in over 50 years. Chelsea have done well but have huge strides to make to make all the new first teamers gel. Blackburn have a canny manager doing good business with excellent and talented replacements coming in but they have a huge amount to do to get into the top 5.

Also they were top of the league last season a couple of month is. Towards the end of the season they were able to catch up a lot of the ground they had lost in the middle of the season. 5th was bad but for a long time a UEFA spot was even looking like it would be difficult to achieve.

I'm just saying that we had a really long bad spell in the middle but at the start and end we were no weaker than in the season where we finished 2nd.

Sykeirl, I said it was by your own admission that you did not watch so many pool games - naturally you can change your mind and claim something else.

p.pete · 01-08-2003 12:39pm

Originally posted by sykeirl

Pool haven't competed because they haven't won a premiership title. Utd and Arsenal have.

So Newcastle and Chelsea haven't competed either? Talk rationaly will ye?

GuanYin · 01-08-2003 12:41pm

I don't ever remember saying that.

I may have said I don't enjoy watching pool games.
But whether or not I said it. I think if you can count the games I watched with you, you'd see I watched quite a few.

Again, I'm not arguing that pool don't have good players capable of doing well, I'm arguing that they don't have the depth to maintain the challenge.

As for their recent performances and progress, thats another matter that I guess is subjective.

GuanYin · 01-08-2003 2:09pm

Originally posted by p.pete
So Newcastle and Chelsea haven't competed either? Talk rationaly will ye?

Yes, Chelsea and newcastle haven't competed.

The premiership has been as much a two horse race as scotland for the past 5-6 years.

How can you say any other team can compete with Utd and Arsenal when noone else runs them close. Its either a close run between the two of them or one of them walks away with it.

Noone else competed.

p.pete · 01-08-2003 2:16pm

Originally posted by sykeirl
The premiership has been as much a two horse race as scotland for the past 5-6 years.

And of course no other team came first or second in the last 5-6 seasons? still not bringing any more reason to your arguments:p

GuanYin · 01-08-2003 2:23pm

Originally posted by p.pete
And of course no other team came first or second in the last 5-6 seasons? still not bringing any more reason to your arguments:p

Ok. Read my posts and apply what I say to your arguments before you spam up the place.

"Its either a close run between the two of them or one of them walks away with it."

Now, when liverpool finished second, did they push arsenal all the way?

No arsenal walked away with it.

Now, what was your point?

marct · 01-08-2003 2:33pm

The point Sykierl is that the Pool have been the only team in the last 5 years to break up the duopoly. Granted they didnt push Arsenal but they did finish ahead of Manu- more than can be said for any other Prem team. The point is about progress and the absolutely irrefutable fact that Liverpool have come closer than any team thats not ManU or the Arse. Neither the Toon or Chelsea have come within an asses roar of doing so. Has logic taken a holiday..:rolleyes: And what happened to the Gerrard/Vieira debate?

p.pete · 01-08-2003 2:41pm

Originally posted by sykeirl

Now, when liverpool finished second, did they push arsenal all the way?

Liverpool finished with 80 points that season, the previous season that would have won the league. Granted Arsenal still got away but comparing the top of the premiership to the top of the scottish league is just childish.

GuanYin · 01-08-2003 2:59pm

YEs.

But Liverpool have been up there alot longer than newcastle and chelsea.

At the stage Ranieri took over at the start of the 00/01 season chelsea had been lingering at the top 6 of the premiership but they were in turmoil (thanks mainly to the idiot that runs the club)Ranieri had it tough but still managed 6th/6th/4th. More than that he has made progress in strengthening the squad and Chelsea are consistant performers wh until now it seems lacked the cutting edge to compete.

Newcastle since Robson took over 11th, 11th, 4th & 3rd which included Robson rebuilding the team. Newcastle now have a very strong squad of young players who have CL experience. Anyone who can't see the progress they have made under Robson must be blind.

Now Liverpool were a third place finishing team when GH took over (98) and went 4th, 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 5th. But wait, liverpool's finishing record was 3rd, 3rd, 4th, 3rd the 4 seasons before anyway. This is their worst premiership season and they still have never managed to compete for a title with the eventual winner (yes p.pete pool had 80 points, but Arsenal won by 7 pts and I believe they fielded reseve teams for the last few matches).

They still haven't managed to bring in those big players that might make a difference. Imagine they had Ruud or Campbell? Would that strengthen there challenge? I think so. They are good, but so far I don't think they have anyone that will give them anything they haven't already shown in the past premiership seasons.

There was no Gerrard debate. He loses the head and has attitude problems due to personal issues. I said he needs to lose those. Otherwise he is unreliable for the team.

marct · 01-08-2003 4:13pm

Some good points well made. But Campbell wouldnt really strengthen the first team as he wouldnt get into it with the SH and SH partnership. And with Gerrard saying there is no debate is a bit rich with the posts of yesterday. And just because you say so doesnt make it so! If he is unreliable for the team Vieira is much more unreliable as has gotten sent off far more..but when he gets sent off its because he is fantastic?

GuanYin · 01-08-2003 4:57pm

Originally posted by marct
Some good points well made. But Campbell wouldnt really strengthen the first team as he wouldnt get into it with the SH and SH partnership. And with Gerrard saying there is no debate is a bit rich with the posts of yesterday. And just because you say so doesnt make it so! If he is unreliable for the team Vieira is much more unreliable as has gotten sent off far more..but when he gets sent off its because he is fantastic?

And the SH-SH partnership is a 38 game a season one?
Utd and Arsenal excell because for the most part (there are exceptions), they have cover players who can do as good a job as the first teamers. Liverpool don't have that to the same extent.

I think Gerrard isn't consistent or reliable enough to be considered a great. HE is a very very good player. But he is young and he will hopefully improve.

I'm not, and I know p.pete thinks this, a liverpool-basher. I used to love pool's play under evans. I think they are one or two players away from being a title challenging team (I said this ages ago in another thread). They need a big signing or two. They may yet rueletting Duff slip....

Villain · 01-08-2003 5:10pm

Originally posted by sykeirl
They may yet rueletting Duff slip....

Duff for 17 million or Kewell for 5 I think the Pool got the better deal somehow.

Also considering Duff's hamstring problems.

p.pete · 01-08-2003 5:15pm

sykeirl, most of your posts about Liverpool are firmly based, when you make the effort:D What annoys me is that it's so easy to take the piss out of Liverpool, honestly would ye not get a more challenging hobby. I'll be forced to watch division 1 footy soon so I can slag you back about Forest.

Liverpools football under Evans was occasionaly a lot more exciting - a lot more inconsistant also. They had a lot of young attack minded players and the squad that was there had lots of potential. Unfortunately they were a crowd of dossers and one or two bad eggs spoiled the broth (why you want eggs in soup, I don't know, I must have just made that up).

Liverpool are a lot less exciting now but they are also a lot more professional as a squad of players and their attitude to the job. On the pitch they are a lot more consistant - I know that is an easy one to argue against but a lot of the matches where we drop points we are still playing the same game of football (boring and defensive).

As marct points out Gerrard doesn't get sent off that often. Definitely he put in a lot of below par performances last season but hopefully he is going to be vastly improved this season.

jEt|Dino · 01-08-2003 6:42pm

sykierl is a liverpool fan at heart i so know it

and to say newcastle and chelsea are making more progress than liverpool to cetch the 2 horses is pure bull star star star star

GuanYin · 03-08-2003 10:39pm

Welll...
Pool beaten 2-1 by Galatasary and Mellor and Gerrard sent off and Smicer injured

Mellor will prob get a band, Gerrard was two yellow cards, so I dunno if he will.

Not a good omen.

Big Ears · 03-08-2003 11:56pm

No they dont offiacialyy register cards in the tournament so no1 gets a ban.I saw the first have pool looked alright but as usual short of ideas.Kewell is a waste on the right they may as well have Heskey or a youth player there

GuanYin · 04-08-2003 11:59am

Hate to break it to you, but the FIFA fair play initiative means that for the past season yellow cards in friendlys carry through to domestic games. There for any suspensions incurred by a red card carry through to the season.

However, I think this only counts for a straight red and that two yellows don't carry over.

Mellor is gonna get a ban though.