Kewell - another Litmanen?

smemon

liverpool cant improve with GH at the helm. he's had 5 or 6 years and not done much as far as i can see.

won the uefa cup, only because they're not good enough for the champs league. apart from that he's done nothing.

the league is the big one, win that and you'll gain respect. he's spent over 100m in since he took over. what decent player has he got to show for it? heskey, diouf etc..

finnan is a defensive player, a good one, not great. kewell was a good player at leeds, he'll go downhill now under GH's defensive tactics. why does he buy strikers and play them as defenders?? 10 defenders and 1 attacker, thats how they play.

jonno

Originally posted by smemon
liverpool cant improve with GH at the helm. he's had 5 or 6 years and not done much as far as i can see.

won the uefa cup, only because they're not good enough for the champs league. apart from that he's done nothing.

the league is the big one, win that and you'll gain respect. he's spent over 100m in since he took over. what decent player has he got to show for it? heskey, diouf etc..

finnan is a defensive player, a good one, not great. kewell was a good player at leeds, he'll go downhill now under GH's defensive tactics. why does he buy strikers and play them as defenders?? 10 defenders and 1 attacker, thats how they play.

Don't be so naive and stoopid. No team plays ten defenders. He plays his team in a defensive formation. And the way you are talking you would swear that they have been playing it since he took over. They only started with the defensive when they hit the slump before Xmas last season. Nobody remembers that they played some good football which gave them a big lead in the league. Once the slump hit GH probably jumped to the conclusion that the reason they were loosing games was that the defensive side of their game was poor so to improve this he made the rash decision to change the tactical approach which had worked well up until then. What GH failed to realise was that the team lacked width and creativity on the wings. So their only attacking option was to go down the middle. Here they were easily blocked off. This change was a bad one and Liverpool never really got out of their slump in form. Another problem with this new approach was that no player in the team really got to grips with all the squad rotation that was going on. What GH should have done if he wanted to change the tactics was to have one team playing the tactics to get used to their role on the field - it's logical.

Now because of this bad decision from the manager their bad form never ended. So what does everyone (bar most Liverpool fans) do, jump on the bandwagon and start slating Liverpool and GH for his approach. Maybe they are right and for a time I myself was disillusioned with GH. But I think Liverpool can win the league under GH. You are saying that Steve Finnan is not a great player. Well he a long way ahead of Gary Neville. Maybe not at Stevie Carrs level yet but he's on his way. He is a good defender and he gets forward too. I would rate him as a slightly better defender than Carr but Carrs pips it with his attacking skills.

Another comment which makes no sense is that Kewell will go downhill because of GH's defensive tactics. If you had seen any of Liverpool's pre-season games you will see that they are playing attacking football now(even Michael Owen admits that the football has changed) with Kewell bringing out the best in the likes of Diouf and Smicer. But yet again the critics find something wrong with GH - the latest being that GH is playing Kewell out of position on the right. Then Kewell himself comes out and says that he enjoys playing in that position. Now as far as I'm concerned the only person that knows how comfortable a player is in a certain position is he player himself.

I think I've rambled on a bit now but it's just comments like that that get me going (so you know for the future:)) So I'll finish now and await the next criticism.

YNWA;)

The Muppet

They only started with the defensive when they hit the slump before Xmas last season.

sorry i dont agree even the year they won their version of the treble they did so plaing defensively hiit teams on the break with Owens pace.

You are saying that Steve Finnan is not a great player. Well he a long way ahead of Gary Neville

Thats your opinion but when they both come to the end of their career which is going to have the most to show for it. I would not be nevilles biggest fan defensively but at times he has been oustaning going forward. Dont forget United had the best defencive record in the prem last year.

Then Kewell himself comes out and says that he enjoys playing in that position. Now as far as I'm concerned the only person that knows how comfortable a player is in a certain position is he player himself.

He is a proven player on the left he may turn out to be just as good or better on the right but his performances to date there do not suggest that but that has been in friendlies we will know in a few weeks.However i do think the manager not the player should decide these matters.


Bannor while you aree coorect in saying that it was evans choice to leave did the board not bring in houlier to "help" him and so making his departure inevitable.

p.pete

As a comparison between Finnan and GNeville, last season their fantasy football points were Finnan 84 and GN had 83 (taken from fantasy.premierleague.com)

Not a very good comparison of the players ability, but correct me if I'm wrong - Neville achieved his score playing in the best defence in the league and the the eventual league winners. Finnan got his playing for Fulham - a much more difficult achievement.

The Muppet

Not a very good comparison of the players ability,

Fair play pete keep putting the argument and counter argument in the same post and it will save me from having to reply to you.

BTW Typical of a livepool supporter to revert to fantasy:D;)

I think were going off topic and probably begining to annoy the powers that be and others so i think I,ll leave it there on this topic.

Chao pete

Bannor

Originally posted by The Muppet
Bannor while you aree coorect in saying that it was evans choice to leave did the board not bring in houlier to "help" him and so making his departure inevitable.

Evans was in the last season of his contract - Houllier was to replace Evans at the end of the season when Evans' contract ended. Roy Evans was more than happy with Gerard Houllier joining the season before, because Roy wasn't too good on the tactical side of things.

The problems arose when Houllier lost the rag with the spice boys after their back to back lack-lustre displays against Derby and Spurs at the start of November. Ince and company had been used to having free reign at the club while Evans was in sole charge and the level of discipline introduced by Houllier didn't go down well at all. Ince as the team captain tried to lead a players revolt and refused to talk with Houllier - that is an indication of how bad things were at the club. Evans then decided to resign his position as joint-manager and give Houllier sole charge of the team for the good of the club.

marct

Originally posted by The Muppet
Fair play pete keep putting the argument and counter argument in the same post and it will save me from having to reply to you.

BTW Typical of a livepool supporter to revert to fantasy:D;)

I think were going off topic and probably begining to annoy the powers that be and others so i think I,ll leave it there on this topic.

Chao pete

When they won 'their version' of the treble they scored 127 goals- every one on the counterattack, or an over the top ball from Gerrard to Owen, was it?:rolleyes:
Re. Neville- by that rationale Neville would be a better player than, say. Lillian Thuram because he has won more medals. Give me a break!

p.pete

Well put Bannor. A lot of people when criticising GHs' achievments at pool overlook the things he had to deal with when he took over.

Admittedly our finishing position in the league this year was not an improvement on where we were finishing when we had the spice boys. Other side to that coin is that there was some very talented players in those days that should of enabled us to finish higher. Due to these guys deciding to take the piss out of Evans there was never any real hope of winning the league back then.

At this stage teams like ManU and Arsenal have been steadily pulling away from us year by year. Our not being involved in the first few seasons of the CL hurt us badly. Over the last few seasons our final league position has been improving year by year with the all too obvious exception of last year. That was down to a rather massive blib in the middle of the season and whether we can avoid a repeat of the blib remains to be seen.

Most people are reckoning Liverpool will finish 5th again. That's fairly justifiable, any improvement on fifth will be a bonus.

smemon

i dont know how or why people are defending houllier. since mc allister and litmanem went, after the uefa cup they've been nothing but defensive.

finnan is a good player but untried in the champs league, and he still wont get the chance to play in it this year either! he's an international but lets face it so is gary breen and ian harte. that means nothing.

GH should step down and admit he's just taking liverpool round in circles. if they finish poorly this season (4th or 5th) he should be sacked. no other club would have a manager like this for 5/6 years.

Bannor

Originally posted by smemon
i dont know how or why people are defending houllier. since mc allister and litmanem went, after the uefa cup they've been nothing but defensive.

finnan is a good player but untried in the champs league, and he still wont get the chance to play in it this year either! he's an international but lets face it so is gary breen and ian harte. that means nothing.

GH should step down and admit he's just taking liverpool round in circles. if they finish poorly this season (4th or 5th) he should be sacked. no other club would have a manager like this for 5/6 years.

What a comedian!

By comparison Houllier has achieved more in his first 5 years with Liverpool despite suffering a serious illness than Ferguson achieved in his first 6 years with Man Utd.

Ferguson (1986):
1 FA Cup (1990)
1 European Cup Winners Cup (1991)
1 League Cup (1992)

Houllier (1998)
1 FA Cup (2001)
1 UEFA Cup (2001)
2 League Cups (2001,2003)

But of course the history of football only began in 1993.

The Muppet

Ah the good old days. I remember when tayto was 5 p a packet
and you would be chewing a penny toffee for half the day. I remember Cherry coca cola and wizzard and chips. Oh and liverpool when they had a decent foorball team. Ah i Have fond memories of good old days indeed.

Your right about 1993 it was indeed when the premiership started. Im delight you realise that and recognise its significance.

jonno

Originally posted by The Muppet
Ah the good old days. I remember when tayto was 5 p a packet
and you would be chewing a penny toffee for half the day. I remember Cherry coca cola and wizzard and chips. Oh and liverpool when they had a decent foorball team. Ah i Have fond memories of good old days indeed.

Your right about 1993 it was indeed when the premiership started. Im delight you realise that and recognise its significance.

Do you realise how naive you sound - even if you are only messing.

Your definately living up to your boards.ie name anyway - The Muppet


BTW Bannor you made a very valid point there. It's a pity there are not a few more open minded Man Ure supporters who see that:(

p.pete

Originally posted by jonno
BTW Bannor you made a very valid point there. It's a pity there are not a few more open minded Man Ure supporters who see that:(

Maybe they feel embarassed - back then there was a lot of people calling for AF to be removed. Certainly more MU fans wanted shut of him than pool fans who want to get rid of GH at the moment.

It would have been a huge mistake to get rid of Alex - he has more than proven his worth as a manager. Getting rid of GH could turn out to be as big a mistake - thing is we either won't know for a few years or alternatively if we sack him we will never know.

Sposs

Originally posted by marct
I definitely agree that the Pool need a proper attacking central midfielder to play alongside Gerrard. Someone like Basturk or Yakin would really fit the bill.

Re. Owen. The press marvel at his dry spells as the dont come along that often. This is the player that was either highest scorer or joint highest scorer in the PL for three years in a row and would have finished 1 behind RVN if RVN didnt take penalties.

Owen Takes Liverpools Penalities,he just misses more

marct

Originally posted by Sposs
Owen Takes Liverpools Penalities,he just misses more

True and as he does'nt play for Mike Riley's team like RVN- he gets less to take:)

p.pete

Originally posted by marct
True and as he does'nt play for Mike Riley's team like RVN- he gets less to take:)

Ouch, that was a low blow - nice one!

The Muppet

Lighten up jonno just havin a bit of friendly banter.

For The record I hope liverpool do improve next season. Gh is a decent sort and always gracious in defeat and he comes acroos as a generally nice guy. I just dont think some of his dealings in the transfer market have been very successful and the tactics he plays are not what you would expect of Liverpool. The year that liverpool came second in the league Big Nose was in charge for most of that so Gh cant claim the credit for that. If My Memory serves me right It was only after he returned that their form dropped

PPete

Most people are reckoning Liverpool will finish 5th again. That's fairly justifiable, any improvement on fifth will be a bonus.

I dont believe that liverpool fans will settle for finishing 5th.
Michael Owen certainly will not be and from recent sounding from him he will be off if they dont secure Cl football next year.

Your points about fergie are accurate but its not as simple as that. United only really started making big money to afford the big names when they floated on the stock exchange in 1991 and IMO this was a huge factor in UTD Success. Fergie was always a good manager he proved that in scotland he just didnt have the money to buy the players he wanted.

Leeds giving us cantona played its part too too:D