Possible solution!?!?

sovtek

Some info I got from my residence association recently that might prove effective in helping to stop the price-fixing by pubs.
Now my idea might have some snags I admit as I'm not familiar with all the in's and out's (which is why I'm posting this).
You can evidentally object (on what criteria I'm not sure))to a pub getting their license renewed.
What I propose is getting a group together and objecting to EVERY license in the country.
This would severly disrupt pub owners (their cartel in the form of the Vintners Asssociation) business.
It would also get much attention drawn to the problem and maybe politicos would follow suit.
I don't know.... just a half baked plan at the moment.
Any ideas.

gabbogalway

that sounds like a good idea,
Could be worth a try.
How come all the forum regularies didnt reply to this?

sovtek

Originally posted by gabbogalway
that sounds like a good idea,
Could be worth a try.
How come all the forum regularies didnt reply to this?

Tanks!
I imagine it's because today is a bank holiday.

billy the squid

Might cost you a few bob though

think aobut it you would have to buy every newspaper in the country to see which pubs are having their licences renewed then you would have to write to every local court in the country at the appropriate time and object.

dont know if you would have to attend every court to have your say.

If you were to get a group of people to do it it guess it would make it easier

sovtek

How come all the forum regularies didnt reply to this?

Judging by the response maybe alot of people think it's a bad idea or would rather just bitch and not do anything about it.
Don't know.

Villain

You can't just object you have to valid grouds to object.

My thoughts based on working in a pub for 8 years:

I worked in a large pub in a small town in Co. Carlow for 8 years and I always heard people complaining about the price, but I mean some pubs are really going over the top and charging very high prices but not all.

E.g. Where I work a pint of Guiness is 3.40 in another pub in town its 3.00

But we provide music, TV including sky subscription, it's much larger pub so heating bills ESB bills are much higher etc etc.

Now don't think I'm trying excuse the high prices, but in Waterford its 4.00 for a pint of guiness.

My point is you can't object to all licenses some super pubs are taking mick no doubt but I honestly have to say a lot of pubs are not making any more now on a pint than they were 3 or 4 years ago.

sovtek

Originally posted by irish1 You can't just object you have to valid grouds to object.

Price-fixing is illegal?

I worked in a large pub in a small town in Co. Carlow for 8 years and I always heard people complaining about the price, but I mean some pubs are really going over the top and charging very high prices but not all.

I'm not saying they are all doing it, but most are and not just the "super pubs".

E.g. Where I work a pint of Guiness is 3.40 in another pub in town its 3.00

Thats a good price, compared to city centre but I'd say that's still a jump from what they were before the Euro.

But we provide music, TV including sky subscription, it's much larger pub so heating bills ESB bills are much higher etc etc.

I'm not expert but I've been in very few pubs that didn't provide music. With the profits that they make it well covers any expense including wages (which I suspect haven't increased since the Euro). It's telling that a pub goes for a million or so anywhere in Ireland.

My point is you can't object to all licenses some super pubs are taking mick no doubt but I honestly have to say a lot of pubs are not making any more now on a pint than they were 3 or 4 years ago.

All super pubs are taking the mick and I've seen reports about how pubs make at least a %100 profit on EVERY pint of beer. Put that with the %200-%300 profit on splits and it all boils down to getting screwed.

sovtek

I mainly posted this in hopes of getting people who were actually interested in doing something about the obvious problem of pubs continually hiking their unjustified prices.
I didn't really want to debate wether or not there is a problem with pub prices in Ireland, as I think it's obvious to most that there is a serious problem. I wanted to get input from people that wanted to do something and might have varied knowledge and ideas about how to go about changing things.
Anyway...I'm really surprised at how few people actually post in this forum, much less seem to actually want to do anything about the problem.

sovtek

Originally posted by fcddunne


If you were to get a group of people to do it it guess it would make it easier

That was my idea really. I posted hoping some people might actually want to get it together.
There was a group last year that tried getting a boycott together through a website. I emailed them and suggested various ways of getting the message out. They emailed me back saying that they were going to rely on the internet only.
I thought that it wasn't the best strategy and I think time has shown that I might have been right.

Villain

Originally posted by sovtek
I mainly posted this in hopes of getting people who were actually interested in doing something about the obvious problem of pubs continually hiking their unjustified prices.
I didn't really want to debate wether or not there is a problem with pub prices in Ireland, as I think it's obvious to most that there is a serious problem.

well what you said was

Originally posted by sovtek

What I propose is getting a group together and objecting to EVERY license in the country

I was pointing out that not every pub is ripping people off and that price fixing is not everywhere.

I attened a few VFI meetings and I can honestly say they was no pricefixing from them, some publicans wanted increases but all.

Your trying to look at this situation in far too generalised way.

I'd rather the Government didn't take 40% of the price of a pint.

Most normal pubs in normal towns work off a net profit of about 20% I don't think that is too high.

I want to make it clear I'm not trying to defend all publicans I mean in waterford the other night I had to pay 4.65 for a vodka thats just mad. But you can't generalise all pubs accross the country.

sovtek

Originally posted by irish1

{QUOTE]
Your trying to look at this situation in far too generalised way.

That may be true but there is a general flaw in the way the publicans are allowed to criminally exploit the Euro.
And I'm sure there are some that don't exploit but I haven't seen that they are too worried about the many who are and could be a threat to their well being.
I'm quite sure that the VFI aren't going to stand up and blurt out "we wanna fix prices guys, what ya think?"

Most normal pubs in normal towns work off a net profit of about 20% I don't think that is too high.

You might be correct but I'm very wary of that statement considering what I've witnessed myself, and I'm not just talking about Dublin.

I want to make it clear I'm not trying to defend all publicans I mean in waterford the other night I had to pay 4.65 for a vodka thats just mad. But you can't generalise all pubs accross the country.

Again I beleive there is a general flaw in the way licences are given out and how they are allowed to have a cartel throughout the country, which the government is obviously beholden to.

Villain

If weren't looking at this in such a one minded manner you might understand my points

Originally posted by sovtek
You might be correct but I'm very wary of that statement considering what I've witnessed myself, and I'm not just talking about Dublin.

I am correct well that is for a normal town pub, and get this if the profit level falls below 20% the TAX collectors do a full audit as they think cash is been hidden.

Again I beleive there is a general flaw in the way licences are given out and how they are allowed to have a cartel throughout the country, which the government is obviously beholden to.

They don't have a cartel there is plenty of choice around the country you will always find a cheaper pub but it's just normally people don't like it. Pubs that offer loads of services have massive overheads and so have to charge more.

The government is quite happy to see prices rise they get a good cut so why wouldn't they.

The problem is people want everything for less, I mean all the costs relating to a bar have gone up so therefore the drink has to.

I think there will be a price freeze shortly for a year, can't say for sure but there was talk about it at a VFI meeting I attended.
I mean publicans are not stupid they can see OFF-Licence sales going up and pub sales going they know the pub culture is in
danger and with the smoking ban comming it really will be.

sovtek

Originally posted by irish1
If weren't looking at this in such a one minded manner you might understand my points

I understand your points I just don't think you are correct.

I am correct well that is for a normal town pub, and get this if the profit level falls below 20% the TAX collectors do a full audit as they think cash is been hidden.

A normal town like Tullamore I could get a Guiness for £2 (€2.54)before the Euro, now they are about €3.40-€4. That's quite a jump and I haven't seen pubs offering more services than before the Euro. Fewer pubs offer food now, and the ones that do the quality has gone way down while the prices have gone way up.
Also when a few people own most of the pubs, then you have a cartel.
The costs have gone up for everyone, but I'm sorry that still doesn't justify a €1-€2 rise for EVERY pint (splits even more extortionate).
I'm not even going to start on German and Belgium beer prices.

The government is quite happy to see prices rise they get a good cut so why wouldn't they.

As well as getting some brown envelopes and looking the other way, of course they are going to be happy. It's why they seem to be oblivious to how pissed off most people are.

The problem is people want everything for less, I mean all the costs relating to a bar have gone up so therefore the drink has to.

Of course people want things for less, especially when you have an economic decline. That usually spurs deflation not the serious inflation that we've seen.
It's a stupid business practice to begin with. When people have less money or are afraid they might not have a job next week then they don't spend as much. When you add skyrocketing inflation to that equation, then you have a recipe for disaster.
Prices of drinks went up the day business stopped having to post prices in both £'s and €'s. That doesn't support your argument that they've increased prices because of their costs.

I think there will be a price freeze shortly for a year, can't say for sure but there was talk about it at a VFI meeting I attended.

Well how generous of them.

I mean publicans are not stupid they can see OFF-Licence sales going up and pub sales going they know the pub culture is in
danger and with the smoking ban comming it really will be.

Pub owners aren't stupid, then why did they raise prices so much as to lower sales...an obvious cause/effect.
I'm all for the smoking ban only because it's going to hurt the pubs. Maybe they'll get their act together then.

Annasopra

I work in a pub and I just wanted to contribute:

The costs have gone up for everyone, but I'm sorry that still doesn't justify a €1-€2 rise for EVERY pint

As far as I can see costs for pubs have risen dramatically over the last few years. I was listening to a restaurant owner on the radio this evening whose insurance premium 3 years ago was €9000 and this year was €40000. Insurance is just one example of a cost that has gone up so high. With inflation the publicans also have to increase their wage bill to compensate their staff for their increased cost of living. Also remember that the breweries will want to pass on their increased costs and as well you have the sattelite TV companies increasing the charges to pubs

sovtek

Originally posted by Johnnymcg I work in a pub and I just wanted to contribute:

As far as I can see costs for pubs have risen dramatically over the last few years. I was listening to a restaurant owner on the radio this evening whose insurance premium 3 years ago was €9000 and this year was €40000.

And I watched the head of the Restaraunt association tell everyone on Pat Kenny that the Irish rest. industry's average profit margin is the same as the US's, %3. Garbage! A steak costs the rest €2-3 and they sell it for €20?

With inflation the publicans also have to increase their wage bill to compensate their staff for their increased cost of living.

You are the first person I've heard of that has been given a wage increase in relation to inflation.

Also remember that the breweries will want to pass on their increased costs and as well you have the sattelite TV companies increasing the charges to pubs

Did the brewers increase their costs the day business didn't have to post £ and € prices anymore?