Quad Timing Frenchies

Koopa

{!}

[This message has been edited by Koopa (edited 05-03-99).]

Von

Me too.

As of now I use

1: The Qizmo/NFProxy HUD clock
2: The Kteams Scores Command
3: Quad timing wav files
4: A Digital 60 second countdown timer attached to my monitor
5: A 5 minute one for pents.
6: My sister standing behind me timing powerups.

I reckon that's enough. Counting to 30 in your head is lame. No skillz.

Ah sorry bout the nails thing Skill5. GL probably just made them look glowy or something.

Koopa

me too!

SKILL5

change mdl, it's also part of the game.

use shambler.mdl for player.mdl is NOT cheating for you ????

Von

If you can change player.mdl with shambler.mdl using a console command then it's not cheating.

Koopa

Zoid didnt say anything about shambler.mdl (you will have to ask him ),
but he HAS said fullbrights are not cheating, and he is GOD.

fullbright skins is a console command..
type "allskins <brightskin>"

its like using "v_kicktime 0"
or "fov"
i mean, you can have a fov of 170 and its not considered cheating.. no-one will complain that you are not playing "quake as it was meant to be played" by using fov 170..
"v_kicktime 0" is DEFINITELY a cheat if you say fullbrights are cheats, as is cl_rollangle, changing your mouse sensitivity above 11 (the mouse slider in quake only goes up to 11), and the "gamma" command

Proxies are definitely cheats, and should be banned {!}

SKILL5

Why in glqw we can't use bright skin and see players in dark ??? too difficult to add this feature in gl or too difficult to remove this cheat in software version ?

Koopa

"too difficult to add this feature in gl" -yes, probably..

"or too difficult to remove this cheat in software version ?" -No, probably more like Zoid is leaving in the fullbrights to make sure you can actually SEE the player model in software quake.. even in lighted areas, its much harder to see the normal player skin in software than in GL...

guest

ohw, I don't consider anyone in the lan was cheating. Timing quad or pent is very important in teamplays. Using the kteam scores command, the hud clock, using a watch, your sister or counting in your head is necessary. I'm quite disappointed and surprised about your reaction, von. Using material quad timers or the scores or the kteam feature is a well known tip used since a long time by the quake scene. I just think you still sad about our lan results. I sincerely hope you learned about this. Please begin to use any allowed timer method (no .wav modifying or cheating nfproxy), so you will have better chances next time we'll meet. Using the best things to get the better chances is a "pro" attitude if these things stay in some "good-sense" limits. The only problem is that people don't put this limit at the same place.

I hope you understood all of this (babelfishless)

friendly,

Mandrixx

Bunny

We play more clan arena, the french play more wars and rocket arena....we lost to a better, more experienced team. ...And I for one welcome our new french friends, as a trusted quake player I can be useful in rounding up others to toil in your underground sugar caves

Mickah

I reckon using anything other than yer head to time quads is lame.

It takes skill and concentration to time quads and pents, personnally i do better without a watch or clock when i'm running either.

Problem is Quake is so open to "cheating", that no-one knows where to draw the line.

Me, i'm just honest.

Mickah

elexes

i dont think its a cheat its a help if i had though of that in my matches id of done it dont see any harm in it lads maby you should consider it .

Von

There was agreement on using fullbrights and proxies (clocks are ok) but there was no agreement on using digital timers mounted on monitors which are more precise.

The fact that we played **** and would have lost the 4 v 4's no matter what doesn't make it ok to cheat. Koopa had no trouble in duels but it doesn't mean it's ok to use a bot just to perk up his shaft aim in case 1 cell gets wasted.

number1

[This message has been edited by number1 (edited 06-03-99).]


[This message has been edited by DeVore (edited 06-03-99).]

Von

Mandrixx wrote
"Please begin to use any allowed timer method (no .wav modifying or cheating nfproxy)"

hehe. Your lame little stopwatch would not have been allowed by us. Next time we play, I'll use whatever I like to win. If you don't know about it, it's ok. I won''t bother asking what you consider cheating.

Question: Why were you all so good at timing quad perfectly but always late to Pent? I'm just curious.

Blade

Wah, down Von! let me just explain something to all of you who may be offended by what von is saying, I've known Von for years now what with him being in my clan and basically he's always been very anti cheating, he likes to play the game as ID intended, he always refused to take any modified models from me of any kind claiming they were cheats even the most basic FPS enhancers. Thats just the way Von is, however I too like Von assumed that these lan games as many other important games around the world were to be played under the strictest of rules and with no modifications whatsoever, the only thing we heard before going to Paris was that whiteskins were allowed so the lads used them and cleaned up their PC's of all other mods, I think all this should have been cleared up before hand so all our lads would have used the quad wav files and whatever other mods they were used to using. However I don't blame the French for any of this, it was up to team.ie to sort all this out with the French before hand, Von just assumed no mods, cheats or whatever you want to call them were allowed.

Blade

Koopa

calm down von, how can ya say using a watch was cheating? it doesnt help you aim, and it doesnt tell you the location of your enemy..
personally, i wouldnt use a watch, i would use the HUD clock, but thats up to preference.
maybe in GLquake at 1024*768 the HUD clock is too small?

btw, the reason ppl use coloured team-say messages, is because they all play GLquake at high resolution, its an effort to actually read messages. We dont need colour because at 320*200 in software, the team message is quite readable...

personally, the only things i consider cheating, are:
1. bots (duh)
2. hacked maps
3. glowing models(player, weapons, etc.).. because you can see the glow before you see the player/weapon. also, glowing armour can sometimes be seen behind walls..
4. proxy pointing to 'see' behind walls
5. some timers (eg. proxy), that get triggered even though you wouldnt have seen/heard the powerup get picked up(the network packet triggers them??).

more things may be added to this list, once i find out about them

next time im falling into lava just before the end of a duel, i going to keep typing timerefresh so i float in air and dont lose a frag


[This message has been edited by Koopa (edited 06-03-99).]

Koopa

blade got his post in before me.. wah

"our lads would have used the quad wav files and whatever other mods they were used to using"
noway lors, we stopped using those a long time ago
they show up in f_modified anyway...



[This message has been edited by Koopa (edited 06-03-99).]

Zero

ehh....yawn, we lost and it wasn't because of Suns timer, which most of us saw from the beginning. Can we leave it there?

DaNoLd

Did anyone of you remember the 'brightskins incident' during a US tournament (PGL I think)?

I clearly see a pattern emerging.
We've been in different places in Europe to play Quake, and sometimes, I was absolutely stunned by the tricks people used while playing. Theses tricks are now common, but watching people to use them in front of everyone, without any reaction... That was surrealist. On the other hand, it's impossible to check 200+ computers for exotic stuff, for every matches (imagine a guy standing behind you all the time).

For future matches (not only for fr/ie ones), it could be interesting to assign a pair of people (1/team) who would check for rules , tools, settings etc.. to be respected during the 'official' matches. They would also assume the responsibility of it. Of course, everyone has to be vigilant, as it's not always that a player will deliberately break the rules (it's easy to forget to switch from 'tools.cfg' to 'skills.cfg').

If >>>I<<< was that person during the fr/ie event, trust me, I would asked Sun to remove or hide that clock he had on his monitor. In fact I did, I always told him that it represents an unfair advantage. But what can I do? 'raaah, shut up Dan'. I don't mind if he uses it when he plays over inet. The main reason if that you absolutely can't prevent people to use some kind of assistance during an internet match. Beside meeting on Lan parties to enjoy a 13/50ms class ping, it is also to expect decent/honest/no-cheat games to be played.

If you (player/spectator/supporter) spot something suspicious, you have to report it to 1 single person, who may represent some 'authority' and prevents the abuses (my mind is so twisted I could assume that role). Otherwise, your voice may not be heard.

I would forbid crosshair for competition for example.

Von

Thats the only sensible and rational post on this thread. I remember thinking at the LAN that it might be a bit rude to go looking through someones computer but I think if no one has anything to hide they won't mind. Also if someone objects to Ocrana LEDs or shotgun scripts or something then I'd take them out. But we were pushed for time as it was. I had just got a monitor and wasn't even on the network and was being told I was playing in 5 minutes.

Personally I like the Clan 9 UK game rules (www.barrysworld.com/clanuk) They were allowed no timers in any form. Even the mod had the "scores" command taken out.

There's still a few idots out there who think I am saying the only reason the French won is because they had a quad timer. Ehhhh no. I'm doing a (long) report of each game, official and unofficial, I remember. I'll list both the good and the (many) bad points about our setup and how we played. It'll be up later.

Von

Yep Danold, crosshairs aid aim, practically the same as a bot! Ban em.

Koopa

ban those weird mousemats that make you look like youre cheating

{!}

WhiteWashMan

and ban everyone who is better than you as well, has better tactics and better teamplay goin on.
sure theyre all cheats anyway

Von

There'd be no one left to play then WWman and we'd have to go play quake 2. ugh.

WhiteWashMan

a fate worse than death im sure.

Jaden

Hmmmm,
Been off the net for a few days, (I actually have a life outside this place), and I've just trekked through this thread. I have concluded two things:
1. It's OK to alter models when you play quake, (to improve FPS? - Pah).

2. Playing quake in the same room as any timekeeping device is cheating badly, and if you do so you must be prepared to take abuse on Web boards.

If anyone wants to play quake as it was intended (the war cry of all supposed "anti-cheats") then play Quake V1.06, with no proxy, on Fov 90, no altered models, and on no other maps other than those included with quake. Sounds like fun, but count me out.

I myself don't play with any modified models, cos basically I don't know how. Hehe. I'm willing to bet I'm not alone here. I may even try using "allskins fullbright" sometime. But I'll never use a clock, cos thats cheating. Incidently Von, I saw a nice on on special offer in the Sunday World for £2.99, we can all have a whip-round for you if you want. If it still fells like cheating, just put a pencil upright on your desk, and track pents and quads by the motion of the shadow (The sundial method). But maybe thats cheating too.....

Hail To The King, Baby.

Chaos

NO u dont have a life out side quake
U lost that when u moved too the bog heh

aegnor

lo,

Von haven't u say consoles commands are not cheating ? ("If you can change player.mdl with shambler.mdl ...") So try cl_crosshair 1 in the console. NNNNOOOO! there's a cheat in the consoles commands !!!! muahahah

I've got some real difficulties to understand why u didn't moan during the meeting... and i 'm not ready to believe that u didn't see sun's watch before the end of the weekend.
oh, i know!!! u thought it was this new microsoft monitor's ashtray (MS takecareofyourkeyboard ®), or u are blind and that explain a lot better than the watch why ie lose

btw, two more things :
- are u a friends of this "so loved" Bigfoot (the barrys columnist)? cause your reactions are the same as his...
-my post is a bit "humoristic" or maybe "naughty", i dunno how u will feel it, but i would like to say , with a more serious tone that the real defeat is not the ie's one (it was a great and fun meeting) but your reaction

AeGnoR

please do not affiliate my post with the french thinks, it's ONLY my point of view and my way of speaking...

Koopa

yeah, a good time was had by all, and in my opinion no one was 'cheating' at the lan.. lets leave it at that..

Koopa

---

{WE MUST LEARN TO CHEAT}
[nods]
{I HAVE MADE A JUMP-BOT}
{MY FRIDGE CHEATS FOR ME}
{OKAY}