Quake2 and Quake3 for muppets

Blade

Ha ha I'll get loads of grief over this post but hey!

Quotes from http://www.firingsquad.com/games/quake3/
Preview by Dennis "Thresh" Fong: March 1, 1999

Random fact:
Hardcore gamers make up less than 5% of the game buying population.

They are listening -- All we, as hardcore gamers, need to do is remember one thing: Their intended audience is not us. They want to make everything fun and fair for us and give us the best competitive experience.
(in other words it's designed for muppets like quake2)

we managed to figure out why the Quake 2 RL felt "lagged" as compared to the Quake 1 RL. I tried explaining the feeling to him, that the Quake 2 RL felt like it was firing the rocket slightly slower than the original's.. but he couldn't quite figure out what I was trying to say.
we managed to figure out why the After a little thinking and more description from me about what was going on, Carmack suddenly exclaimed, "Oh, I know what it might be!" He proceeded to load up the Quake and Quake 2 code... and found that Quake's rockets had an additional 50ms of prediction added on top of it. Meaning, as you hit fire, the rocket actually comes out 50ms ahead of you... and not directly out of your body. In Quake 2 and Q3 (at the time),
Carmack then changed it, and there was an immediate difference in the way the RL felt. All of a sudden I could do a lot of the "strafe around a corner, fire a rocket quickly then duck back in" maneuver that I used to do in Quake, but couldn't quite manage in Quake 2
(sounds like the quake RL is a more skillfull weapon doesn't it)

The railgun:
Players who were less adept with the close-combat weapons could also just stay at long distances, picking at their enemies rather than engaging them. These are the drawbacks of implementing such a great sniping weapon.
(in other words for muppets)

The BFG:
Here's the deal - the purpose behind having a BFG is to give newbies the satisfaction of at least getting one kill. How? By providing them with a weapon that doesn't require much (if any) skill to use/aim, but is extremely powerful. You can see such an example in the Quake 2 BFG. It doesn't require any aim, simply shoot it at the ground and anyone around you (that can be seen) will receive damage.
(in other words for muppets)

I rest my case,
Blade

SeP

blade your mising the point that alot of those things "for muppets" were taken out of Q3
and the raigun is no more for muppets, its the hardest thing to aim and hit properly with!

on with the q2_muppet_style spam

ButcherOfNog

errr blade thinks the rail is for newbies? ok, yep, your right.

Hobbes

This is the old argument. The BFG is not a powerful weapon. Sure you can throw a shot into a room full of muppets. But the only reason you get score is that the muppets are there to begin with (and prolly Q1 muppets).

Unless the ball is coming straight at you, it's easy to dodge.

Learn to change your tactics in Q2 from Q1 and u's won't whine so much.

TwoShedsJackson

Yes, we must all agree with the almighty Thresh. I have no brain or opinion of my own, must cut and paste.... cut & paste.

Hecate

im breakin my ****s laughing here Blade, what you dont know about q2 could fill a warehouse.

Blade

I didn't say what I think I'm simply quoting God himself, it's there in plain English what he thinks and the muppet elements of Q2 he's hoping to get ID to correct for Q3. He's working alongside ID and they said it themselves that they are designing Q3 for newbies as they did Q2 because newbies make up 95% of the game buying population.

"Blade, what you dont know about q2 could fill a warehouse"

Funny you should say that, isn't every f*cking level in Q2 a warehouse? nothing but boxes scattered around in different formations to give the appearence of a different level, they did this because they were in a hurry to get Q2 out for Christmas.

Blade

WhiteWashMan

actually i reasd that few days ago. im not bothered to go and cut and paste the bits, but what he meant by hard core gamers is ppl who go out and buy top of the range pc's, 2 v2's in sli and have 92 inch monitors purely for games. the other 95% were made up ppl who have a pc and play games. he didnt say that the other 95% crap/newbies/anything else.
as for the railgun, bah, too hard to use. so i guess that makes me a complete muppet
white(wtf is green armour?)wash

Bunny

BFG is a muppet weapon, but fun. I just kill everyone with the rocket launcher while they're trying to rail me.

Kegser

Okay so Thresh doesn't like Quake 2 who gives a ****?. Either does Blade, also, who gives a ****?.

Basically, you can play whatever ****ing game you like without getting hassle from little ****bags who are trying to look big because "The game I play and may be slightly good at is much better then any other game which I may not be as good at in and for one two ar several reasons I don't like it and also you're all muppets who play it not that muppet really means anything but still what the hey since I've started I'll keep going because I'm a what? A MUPPET? Oh good god!"

Now what else... Ah yes.

Using the RL and RG in Quake 2 is refined to an art-form, and skilled players can use it well and newbies can't.

This is the same in Quake, except it takes even longer to get the hang of it and progress to the 'average' stage.

The length of time this takes in Quake 2 is much shorter, but to get into the ranks of the skilled takes a lot of time and patience.

Also I don't remember any Crates on DM 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, or 7. This may be just me but still. Also since when is Lava an integral part of a Warehouse?

Kegs.

(That was fun for me, I hope you enjoyed it too.)

Hecate

and another thing,

why oh why when q1 players talk about q2 players they cant help but mention muppets in the same sentence. Now excuse me, but when was the last time u heard of a q2 player physically asaullting another player?...are we plaugued by spammers on q2 servers?...do people scream, "fu(k you, that was a flukey shot?" when someone frags them on a q2 server..no. It just doesnt happen, weve got ourselves a nice little community here that regularly meets up to get pi5sed toghether (cept me of course, coke boy strikes again! ...and we just play the game..so em, THERE!

Von

I reckon us Q1ers could outdrink u pansies anyday. Remember the Quakemas ****up? Lasted 3 days that did. And not a bother on us. etc etc

JaneyMackers

Ok Blade.
1) Its quite apparent that you have never played q2 for an extended period and given it the time it deserves before you dismiss it as LAME MUPPET GAME?

2)You have no idea about the weapons as you showed in your RG is for newbies comment.And with BFG most players will say if you see it coming its easily dodged without losing very much energy if any at all.

3)What with you q1 guys, its like your paranoid about weather q1 is better than q2 so you must at every stage go q2 muppets *******s.

As far as i can see the q1 scene have alot more actual Muppets, goin round ****in everyone of on irc,We had a few but they seem to be gone now .

So i recommend you play q2 a bit more give it a go ffs and know something about what you diss before you diss it.
JM

MikeS

I now play Q2 and found that its sooo full of CHEATS! like aim bots its not worth playing anymore EG. A guy wiv a Rail gun hits u EVERYTIME with the first shot no matter how fast yer moveing is not on NO and i mean NO ONE is that good with a Rail Gun as for the BFG well i might be a MUPPET but its my only defence against such cheating scum in Q2 so ill continue to be a muppet!

MikeS

Cheez

be careful who ye blame lad
jesus be careful
QUAKE2 has tis "logs" thingy attached to it that can be used as evidence against you(or just to take the ****)
fu(k fu(k fu(kin BASTERD Ofa yolk it is too
now that i think about it
don't worry i won't loose any sleep over it

WhiteWashMan

well, i suppose if you aint gonna jump around like mad dodging railz then of course you gonna get killed. an i know several ppl who could get you with a first shot. ive seen em do it on a lan. in fact, ive had it done to me.
anyway, its only for fun. so many uptight ppl. i reckon yis should go out an try some mind expanding drugs

MikeS

Now DRUGS! might just explaine how its done WWM But i have it on good authority that NO ONE! is that good wiv a Rail Gun without cheating EG ZBOTS for one but theres more. Role on Q3 "For a While Anyway" till the cheats get at it.. And the really sad thing is even LPB's are cheating!! My opinion is that Q1 2 or 3 should be played JUST AS IT IS!!! without all the add on's then everyone (sept LPB's) would be equal!



MikeS

MikeS

Oh Sorry Cheez did i regreatfully mention names in my las post ? or are u just caought out ?

lol

SheroN

the rail gun is for newbies? ahahahahahhaha
thats what all folk who can't hit the broad side of a barn with a beachball always say blame the weapon... sure its probally the fact
your **** yourself like

shank

Mikes, there are no Z-bots on Irish servers now, I don't think there ever really was a problem to be honest. Yeah it's a total pain in the *****to be taken out by 1 rail shot, but thats why the armour is there... use it. Also there are a fair few ninja players out there that will hit you first time with a rail, while yr running/jumping/midair so strafe and jump like a motherfu[ker to avoid being hit.

---

shank1@usa.net
q2n.quake.ie

DeVore

HAhaha, this is funny.
Look lads, the fact is that the Yamato gun is just TOO powerful and its for muppets!
(well its as useful as comparing rail with RL)

Anyway, bunny would kill you all in q2. Imho (considering what I have said above) q2 doesnt require as much mental speed. The urgency isnt there in the game for me and those damned annoying footsteps are just a pain in the ass.

Its a fun game tho, no doubting that, its just not a game you can take to the sort of vicious levels that the q1 boys have.
Anyway I have my Zerg-swarm cheat ready for DM3... fly my pretties...

DeV.

JaneyMackers

Mikes theres no chance someone was using a zbot against you as there protection on the server the players is kicked instantly.Therefore you are just **** at q2.
THATS my IMHO

Dev. That grand constructive critisim by someone who had obviously played the game..

TwoShedsJackson

Ah yes, the old 'i cant use the railgun, therefore anyone who can is a cheat'. Truly the argument of a complete tit. Come on to the quake.ie servers and we'll have a go MikeS, but dont forget, we have a years practice at q2 on you pal.

Much the way all q1'ers have two-three years practice on anyone who were to start playing now.

mewso

I always laugh at the old Quake is better than Quake2 is better than Quake arguements. I thought to be honest we were finished with it a long time ago.
In any case regarding Thresh's comments I'm reminded of the recent stuff I read from Lord Carmack on the idea of equalising the game for muppets and Gods alike. He wants the Frag God to only whip the newbie by about 1 or 2 frags instead of 20 to some arbitrary minus figure. (God knows I've been that minus figure many times)
Having played both games I have to say Quake remains the superior DM game for the solo player. The irony really is that Quake 2 is much more suited to the tactical side of the game, i.e. teamplay, and I'm not going to go into detail. I just believe this to be the case. Slower, more thought required etc.
I used to champion Quake2 wholeheartedly and in hindsight it's because I wanted it to be better not because it was.
The reality is that after a while playing Q2 and discovering that I was, yet again, an average player in a game that wasn't as exciting or as big an adrenalin rush as Quake was I returned to being an average player in the aforementioned Quake and haven't played Q2 in ages. Don't get me wrong I mean to go back and play it every now and again but sure a fast game of CA always seems more exciting.
A friend of mine recently went back to QW too, his explanation being that the pace and excitement of FFA right up to the fraglimit was just far superior to Q2. I was quick to point out that part of the reason for that was he has ISDN and is always up there in contention for reaching the Frag limit but you can understand his point. That Flav by the way
Finally I might bring your attention to another game. I've tried playing Half-Life recently on the local server and boy does it rock. If only I had a better PC. The laser sight on the RL is a work of genius and adds to the tension. When you see a red laser sight on the wall you know you could be facing trouble round the corner. What do you do? Turn and run. Trust your Machine Gun or hide. It's good folks and I hope more of ye will try it out.

M

MikeS

Ok apologies to all on sundery maby there are ppl that are that good wiv the rail gun and yep i was a bit ****ed off at getting lamped the whole time by it i dunno who the player was and there was only about 7 ppl playing when i joind the game but it soon wittled down to just 1 . I wondey why ? maby all the rest of the players were just newbies as well an we were up against a NINJA! WHOOP! well if the guy was that good gees fair play to him im really impressed i cant master the rail gun at all Oh well maby in time ill get the hang of it. But at the moment i just one of those new muppets trying to hit a barn door with it Soz

MikeS

Hecate

yeh, in all truth, there is a precious few that play q2 in Ireland when compared to q1. And these are hardcore players...we dont even have any muppets anymore, a few come close, but they're a pretty poor excuse ...can we close this thread now

MikeS

I dunno if im to feel happy or sad at that tis kinda a 2 way reply but i will take it as it was ment and just feel LOST!
lol ))))
and ;( and and whatever other smiley i can get

juNkie

AAhhh ffs, had a huge post to reply but IE crashed an I lost it.

to re-cap....

DeV&Bunny, yis want your go, fair nuff, I'll play yis, well Bunny anyway, DeV seems to be pimpin him or somethin Wan the DeV laa!

Mikes...haven't a clue etc etc newbie etc etc lol etc etc static targets don't work too well in Q2 etc etc rail gun rules but it hard to use etc etc etc zbot protection in use on Quake.ie, bet u feel pretty low now etc etc....

who do u love....

juNk laa

Blade

Cool loads of replies as I expected! not enough abuse from the Q2'ers tho!!! come on lads!

Ok heres what I have to add, firstly I'd like to say that all the Q2'ers I've met are really cool people, like someone said not as much sh*te going on as in the Quake lot but thats because you have a nice small community which is ok.

However regarding first person shoot em ups a persons "true" skill can only be seen at high speeds, that means on LAN and using a fast paced game. Let me try to explain as koopa once told it to me... if I were to play koopa in a duel with both of us on 500 pings, then the result would probably be very close at the end of it, lets say 20 to 15 for him, however if we were to play on a lan at 14 ping then that margin would not be so narrow, something like 40 to -1 for him, so in reality thats exactly how much better than me this guy actually is so why should this not show at the end of the game? By slowing things down like adding 50 milliseconds ping delay to the reloading of a weapon, or by trying (like muso said) to even out the game play so that newbies have a chance does not show the true skill level of a player, this is what we're saying is the problem with quake2 and will more than likely be the same with Quake3 because like ID said they are going to try to even out the game play so that the frag difference between newbies and koopa's will be grately reduced thus the end frag result will not display peoples true skill.

A perfect example of this as Zero said before is quake1's Clan arena, muppets can often score higher by pot luck than a ninja especially over few round, ok at the end of 11 or more rounds the better players tend to be on top but not by a realistic margin of their true skill, for example I've often scored even after 11 rounds more than koopa and or tomb, but in a war this would never happen because they are 10 times better than me. Ok we all play some arena for fun as I'm sure quake2 is fun for you guys but we realise that this is by no means a true indication of skill, also the fact that it's not TP2 doesn't help new players when they move to playing a war and most if not all of them know that and are trying to get more wars going to improve their skills.

Janey Mackers or whatever your name is: Please note that the comments in my posts about the quake2 weapons were a direct extract from Thresh's report on Q3 not my comments.

Blade

El_Presidente

Blade is right

got it in a nut-shell, when a newbie plays thresh I WANT to see him win 40 - -3 it shows the true level of skill and when you take this whole thing as seriosly as a hell of alot of ppl do then this is the only realistic set-up you can have.

k, its been decided, quick someone go tell ID.

DeVore

Ok we all play some arena for fun as I'm sure quake2 is fun for you guys but we realise that this is by no means a true indication of skill.

errr... we do?
Now hang on there a min partner ...
Ok, me an tomb have ding dong battles in CA. I love them. I love playing Beast or Mickah or Bunny or any of the ninjas. I can more or less hold my own with them in CA. But they are a good bit better then me to say the least in a war. So who decided that wars dictate the bottom line for skill? Or duels even? I have become a good Clan Arena player, and koopa has become a great duelist. How can you say one is better then the other? Just because CA arrived late?

I've been down this road before, but I'll state two points once again because I feel they need to be reiterated.

1. There is such a thing as a skilled Clan Arena player and if you are a ninja war/duelist DONT expect to come to my turf and beat me the same as you would on duel1 or war1.

2. CA doesnt have that much trouble with spam or muppets-winning-by-luck. It IS possible that you got B|TCHSLAPPED by a better -=*CA*=- player. Take the fuking pain and dont just dismiss the entire mod as "talentless ****e" as many players who should know better have. Just cos you got beat doesnt mean that someone cheated or got lucky.

God knows I live on that CA server so if anyone was going to complain about spam or lucky muppets it would be me. And I dare ANYONE to say that I spam.
I'll play anyone 1 v 1 in CA and show you what CA skill is about.

DeV (who doesnt want to open that can of worms again, even tho he just has)