What to do about foglights?

TomF

With the days growing shorter, I begin my annual dread of the dark season of driving when I have to face into dazzling foglights on the roads. I find it is very difficult to see my own side of the road when some driver coming from the opposite direction has those *%#!^ foglights on in addition to his headlamps.

Is it legal to have mega-candlepower lights glaring down the highway? I really don't understand why cars with all this light power are allowed to be imported into Ireland.

I have an '89 car, so don't know anything about foglights except for the little one in the rear, and would appreciate a primer on what is the switching arrangement in these newer cars. Do drivers not know when they have their foglights on?

mike65

I dunno what the law is on maximum power, I have 80/100 watt bulbs and they're needed as the standard 55/60s were useless.

Some drivers take the view that "hey I got 'em so I'll use 'em!"
and they're driving around with fogs on all the time, not that I have anything against permenant running lights but not blazing
at the rest of us. On my car the front fogs are activiated by pulling out the headlight switch so you know you've put them on but that said there is no dashboard light to remind you of that fact...If a cars headlights are properly set-up there is nothing to be gained with fogs. The best that I can do is suggest you make a point of "flashing" the bastards (trouble is they proberly wont know what your flashing about!).

Mike.

Victor

Moved to Motors.

rymus

Originally posted by mike65
he best that I can do is suggest you make a point of "flashing" the bastards (trouble is they proberly wont know what your flashing about!).

Indeed... I gave up flashing the assholes some time ago, just didnt see the point anymore. As far as I know its not legal to drive with fog lights on (unless its foggy of course).

Next thing I'm thinking of doing is putting a couple of halogen spotlights on the handlebars of my bike and use them to flash the foglight bastards.. maybe a couple of million candlepower will teach them the error of their ways

Victor

Originally posted by rymus
Indeed... I gave up flashing the assholes some time ago, just didnt see the point anymore. As far as I know its not legal to drive with fog lights on (unless its foggy of course).

Next thing I'm thinking of doing is putting a couple of halogen spotlights on the handlebars of my bike and use them to flash the foglight bastards.. maybe a couple of million candlepower will teach them the error of their ways

http://www.night-sun.com/

This type might be too big for your bike "It also has a 30 million candle power 'Nitesun' searchlight for night operations."

TomF

I often fantasize about having a bank of huge lights over my windscreen, and another bank below the headlamps, and throwing the big Dr. Frankenstein knife switch to fry offending foglight users.

Or, as an alternative, having a big mirror that I can focus on the face of the driver. (That would also work for the kind who follow close with their lights boring into your retina.)

Since I'll probably never have such lights or such a mirror, maybe I could get on the blower to the Gardai and say people are driving with their foglights on and I can hardly see to drive.

Well, having thought that through, I've decided it probably isn't much use to call the Gardai, either.

ando

The feckers in the Nissan Micra's (99 - 2001 models) are the worst. Their fogs are so bright, even in daytime its really noticeable

mike65

While we're talking lights, does anyone else find those Mk 2 Fiat Punto headlights a mighty pain? They seem to change colour depending what angle you view from - varying from blue to green to yellow to white. God knows what its like to drive one at night...

Mike.

Redshift

arrrgh, this is my pet hate I just don't understand why they feel the need to drive around with their fog lights blazing then I thought maybe they like seeing their crappy little cars reflection in my can't see a Fncking thing eyes. It always seems to them little micras maybe they should rethink fitting them as standard to small cars as from what I can see on the road the smaller the car the smaller the brain.

TomF

Before I get into this, I agree that those headlamps that seem to shift from one color to another as the oncoming car bounces on the road or turns toward you are distracting. It is like looking at a prism

Now to the Google. Here is what I found on "fog lights" + cars + Ireland. I learned that "front fog lights" are the things that are blinding me. There is probably much more out there, but I couldn't keep going any longer.
"Fog Lights - Dermot O'Leary, 04 December 2002
Boy oh Boy we do get it easy here in Ireland, re the use of front fog's, I have just returned from the states and they don't suffer fools gladly on the roads there - if you have your front fogs turned on and its not foggy you get a roasting from the highway patrol, I did and nearly got fined on the spot, but I had a hire car and said that I was on vacation from abroad and they let me off with a stern warning that if they caught me again I would be done!
And here we are in Ireland with not a care in the world, never mind the fog lights but all the rules of the road."
http://www.ideamerge.com/motoeuropa/ireland/bulletinboard/

"At dusk and dawn there will be cars with full lights switched on, even the fog lights when there is no fog, others have their parking lights on and among them a grey car without light. What looks like a motor bike from far away might be a van with one light not working."

[This page looks interesting, judging from the Google search result, but I can't get the relevant page to remain on the screen: it keeps jumping to some scrolling introduction that I can't get out of. I was finally able to view the above text by clicking on the "Cached" link after the URL on Google.]
www.ireland-accommodation-directory.com/ ed/general/traffic-rules.htm

The "cached" URL that let me look at the info:
http://216.239.39.104/search?q=cache:MneV7rkNF6YJ:www.ireland-accommodation-directory.com/ed/general/traffic-rules.htm+cars+ireland+%22fog+lights%22&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

An (unconsciously?) funny Japanese site
Things about driving a car in Ireland - part 5-2
http://www.clubi.ie/mm/CarChui5_2.html

"Horns cannot be used between 11:30pm and 7am. It's illegal to use fog lights except in fog or falling snow." [Stop, stop! My sides are aching!]
http://www.carhiregroup.co.uk/ireland-car-hire/

"Firstly, despite being recently updated, the [U.K] Highway code was originally written when cars simply didn't have front fogs, so they just sue the sweeping term 'fog lights', and thus to get around this, most aftermarket manufacturers, and to be honest a not insignificant number of car manufacturers describe the front lights as 'Driving Lamps' This seems to give a number of drivers the idea they are safe to use under normal night (or even day) time conditions."
http://www.saabnet.com/aas/2002.W15/1193589373.1261636.html

TomF

I found that when I disabled my "Pop-up stopper" I could view the traffic rules bit on that earlier URL. Here is more from the same source. It reads like it was written by someone whose native language is not English.

"You can tour the country for a week without seeing a police uniform... ."

"If you are used to driving on the right you might be worried that you might make mistakes: After a few days of very careful driving your worries will be over. The rest of the traffic rules is as everywhere else. This is why driving on the left is the logical thing to do and therefore easy to get used to. Yielding to vehicles coming from the right is easier when you drive on the left.

The funny rule to drive on the right and to yield to traffic from the right resulted in millions of traffic signs in Germany and thousands of traffic lights in Holland. All this were not required if people would drive on the left which is the logical thing to do.

Driving in Ireland is enjoyable because Irish drivers are the nicest and politest drivers that can be found anywhere. They treat pedestrians with courtesy. When a driver of a slower vehicle discovers a faster car in the rear mirror, the Irish driver goes to the far left to enable the faster car to pass easily. Near the international airports some drivers from the continent who just started their rented cars sometimes enter a roundabout in the wrong direction. Irish drivers wait patiently at the entrance of the roundabout until the foreigner finds out how to correct the mistake."

mike65

I had know idea we were all so accomodating!

Mike.

rymus

Nice one Victor...

*ponders on mounting a Tasmanian Air Rescue helicopter on the pillion of his bike*

I reckon I'll just end up getting a couple of sets of fairy high power halogen bullet spotlights and wire them into a "big red button" by my left hand.

Or maybe I'll just install a headlight modulator, we all know they are annoying

seamus

IMO, it would seem to be a symptom of ignorance more than arrogance, on normal cars anyway. Most people take driving lessons during the day, do their test during the day. No-one bothers to tell them about the lights. In fact, I would say that a sizeable proportion of people would have no idea what you're talking about when you say 'dipped headlights', 'full headlights', 'foglights' or 'rear foglights'. The type of lights on the bottom of jeeps and boy racers' cars should also be banned. They're useless and only annoy other drivers.

Once again, it's down to enforcement. The Gardai aren't going to waste their time turning around, and even can't if it's a dual carraigeway. In the US, people get pulled over for such offences because the highway patrol are bored and overstaffed.

But again, it's all down to education. Just like everything else that's wrong with our roads.

ondafly

Originally posted by mike65
I dunno what the law is on maximum power, I have 80/100 watt bulbs and they're needed as the standard 55/60s were useless.

Mike- thats as bad, if not worse then the drivers with their foglights on. Beware also of melting or cracking your headlight housing with the excessive heat that comes off such high wattage bulbs.

As for the foglight idiots we all meet on the roads and also the Xenon headlights on the Mercs/Audis/Puntos that seem to hurt the old eyes real bad, theres nothing we can do ? or is there...

In all honesty how do foglights help you when driving in the fog ? I'm sure you've all noticed what happens when you put your full headlights on in the fog - Full White cloud ahead - so what do the foglights do ? (i'm refering to the front ones btw)

seamus

Originally posted by ondafly
In all honesty how do foglights help you when driving in the fog ? I'm sure you've all noticed what happens when you put your full headlights on in the fog - Full White cloud ahead - so what do the foglights do ? (i'm refering to the front ones btw)

Fog lights are there to help other drivers see you. You're supposed to drive with dipped headlights in fog, and use fog lamps to allow other drivers to see you..

ondafly

you've misunderstood, perhaps I didn't explain it clearly. Full lights surely have the same or similiar wattage to foglights - and we all know you don't drive with your full lights on in foggy conditions. So if everyone here feels they are blinded by foglights in normal conditions - how can they help in foggy conditions

BigEejit

The problem with factory fitted front foglights is there is usually no flippin indication in the dashboard that they are actually turned on .... my sister has a toyota carina e and when she turns on her foglights there is this incredibly annoying bright orange light beside the speedo, needless to say she only ever uses the fogs when absolutely necessary ... if all the shaggin micras had this then we probably wouldnt be writing this thread

seamus

Originally posted by ondafly
you've misunderstood, perhaps I didn't explain it clearly. Full lights surely have the same or similiar wattage to foglights - and we all know you don't drive with your full lights on in foggy conditions. So if everyone here feels they are blinded by foglights in normal conditions - how can they help in foggy conditions

Afaik, the point is that they're *supposed* to be lower than standard headlights, so whilst being bright, they don't impinge on the driver's ability to see. I'd be skeptical though tbh

BrianD3

Factory fitted fog lights are nowhere near the same power as main beam headlights. And front foglights *are* a great help in foggy conditions cause they're mounted so low and are directed down onto the road helping you to pick it out. In really heavy fog, it's often impossible to see where the road ends and the ditch begins without foglights. Fog that dense is rare in this country of course, still I have experienced it a few times. Also yellow foglights are generally better than white ones for the purposes of seeing in fog but very few/no cars are fitted with yellow fogs nowadays. Anyway I agree completely with the comments in this thread about muppets using fogs in perfect weather.

BrianD3

solaris

Originally posted by seamus
Afaik, the point is that they're *supposed* to be lower than standard headlights, so whilst being bright, they don't impinge on the driver's ability to see. I'd be skeptical though tbh

Yes, they are supposed to help you see the road in fog (the side of the road and the line in the middle). If they are low enough they really do help in this situation. I found they also helped the driver see the road when blinded by oncoming lights (a serious number of cars on the road have mal-adjusted dipped headlights). Some of the newer cars (including mine) have the front fogs built into the headlight assembly, and this just does't work. They aren't low enough to help the driver, and seem pointless.

Personally I don't find front foglights on oncoming cars a problem, they aren't normally bright enough or high enough to blind me. But following a car with rear fogs on in clear weather annoys the hell out of me !

BrianD3

Some of the newer cars (including mine) have the front fogs built into the headlight assembly, and this just does't work. They aren't low enough to help the driver, and seem pointless.

yeah mounting fogs that high defeats the pupose. I think new VWs have this arrangement. Another pet hate of mine is when manufacturers incorporate indicators into the headlights. I'm not talking about one piece headlight/indicator units where the indicator is at the side and wraps around the corner of the wing but cars like the current Golf which have little indicators buried in the middle of the headlight unit making them hard to see when the lights are on plus you can't see them from the side. Very bad design IMO.

BrianD3

mike65

Originally posted by BrianD3
....but cars like the current Golf which have little indicators buried in the middle of the headlight unit making them hard to see when the lights are on plus you can't see them from the side. Very bad design IMO.

BrianD3

Hate them, and feel they're little more than a fashion statement
like high rear ends that bad restrict the view when reversing...also
I suspect those clusters cost a fortune to replace if smashed.

On the 80/100 watt headlights I'm aware of thre potential heat
problem but am not to worried due to the modest ammount of time I spend driving esp at night. Maybe I could drill a couple of holes in the plastic!:ninja:

Mike.

Victor

Originally posted by BrianD3
Another pet hate of mine is when manufacturers incorporate indicators into the headlights. I'm not talking about one piece headlight/indicator units where the indicator is at the side and wraps around the corner of the wing

One day I will be crossing the road with a big stick when one of these guys comes around the corner, even during the day, too many of the indicators look "white" not "orange", with insufficient flash factor to notice.

JohnBoy

Yeah,

as others have said, the point of front fogs is to shine under the fog almost, to show you the road and the ditch.

The point of a rear fog is to make you visible from behind in foggy conditions.

I don't have a massive problem with oncoming fogs.

Maladjusted dims really piss me off though.

and people who don't dim till they're right on you.

And morons who drive with rear fogs on when there's no fog.
and people who drive with only one light, at least swap the bloody working bulb to the outside.

and those idiots who drive in bad rain/fog with no lights on at all.

FFS

I'm surrounded by idiots

The one thing about lights behind me that annoys me is trucks with shagged suspension that sometimes can cause the lights to bounce around. that really does my head in.

I find for drivers that drive behind you with heads on can be dealt with by turning on the rear fog light.

My old rover 214 used to have an "electronic" fog light switch. it would only stay on while the car was running, so it had to be intentionally switched on each time it was used.

Fiestas seem to be the worst for the rear fog light.

John

mike65

Originally posted by JohnBoy
Fiestas seem to be the worst for the rear fog light.

John

You means Fiesta drivers surely!

Maybe if incorrect fog-light use became a points on your licence issue...

Mike.

TomF

Let's not get too hard on those of us who drive Fiestas. My '85 1.1 L Fiesta, though it has been up on stands "getting ready for the NCT" for the past 2 years, will soon, God willing, be on the road. There are only the new (€€) fuel lines to bend in to connect to the formerly rusty fuel tank which should be out of the shed this week, and ready to bolt back on, as soon as I finish removing the rust under the body and finish the under-coating. Then as soon as I weld back the battery tray and patch over that bad rust spot behind the off-side front shock absorber near the firewall, and put filler in the small holes that I know would burn-through if I tried to MIG weld them, and of course after I put in a replacement carpet and replace that driver's side mirror that the truck broke when he side-swiped me while I was double-parked in Midleton waiting for my wife to return from the ATM. I suppose I'll have to put the seats back in, too and put a seat cover on the driver's seat to hide that big piece of torn foam and fabric near the door. Not forgetting to replace the torn boot on the outside CV joint on the off-side. Nor the "new" rear axle which is in the shed, too, and probably should be bolted on in that big empty space between where the rear tyres used to be. Maybe to be on the safe side I should replace the rear shocks, too. I hope the fuse box doesn't begin smoking during the NCT.

And of course, to demonstrate that I am indeed on-topic, there is the rear fog light that I'll have to put back on as soon as I drill a new hole for it somewhere below the rear bumper where it used to be before I patched that big rusty area.

mike65

Tom if the above is a true story I think you should gracefully
admit defeat and buy another '85 1.1 Fiesta....

Mike.

bertiebowl

Properly adjusted front fog lights shouldn't dazzle oncoming traffic. The aim of front foglights is to illuminate the road for a distance of 10 feet or so in front on the car.

On another note, I've found that front foglights can be very useful on certain Irish roads (e.g Carlow road to Dublin or Naas duel carrageway) at night, that have no "cats eyes". The foglights help show where the road ends and the ditch starts.

But I agree that the idiots in the Micras with the improperly adjusted foglights are a pain in the t*ts....

Victor

Aren't there now more stringent NCT rules for lights - apparently many regular garages don't have suitable equipment for checking lights.

TomF

Yes, it's all true, but it keeps me out of the pubs.