Refused for wearing "trainers"

sovtek

Three of us tried to get into Viper Room other night at about 1:00. One of my friends was wearing trainers and the bouncer refused us citing that very reason.
I thought that pubs weren't allowed to refuse based on this criteria anymore.

hussey

Yeah since when did pubs ever obay laws??

but I wouldn't even look at those type of clubs with a pair of runners on !!

sovtek

Originally posted by hussey
Yeah since when did pubs ever obay laws??

but I wouldn't even look at those type of clubs with a pair of runners on !!

If people call them on it then they would come to follow laws more closely. Anyway it's some stupid logic (and stupid business practice) to refuse people based on their footwear.
I hardly wear anything but "trainers" except when I'm going to a special function.

SkepticOne

What law is it they are not obeying?

sovtek

Originally posted by SkepticOne
What law is it they are not obeying?

That's what I'm asking. I'd heard that they aren't allowed to refuse based on clothing unless they are a private club.

bloggs

I heard this debate on the radio a few weeks ago, where a guy wanted to get into a club while wearing a tracksuit. I don't wear tracksuits or runners, so it doesn't really apply to me, but why not just wear what they require?

bugler

I doubt very much if refusing someone on the basis of their clothing could be made illegal. What if someone shows up dressed in a bin-bag? Or a tramp wants to come in? The phrase "The management reserve the right to refuse admission" has to draw it's meaning from some standards being enforced. Granted being really drunk is one of the criteria that could/should see you being refused entry, but there's no way it should be the only one.

I don't agree with dress codes by the way, but I never go to a reasonably upmarket pub (or any niteclub) wearing runners. Some bouncers are tossers and it's best to reduce the possible grounds for being refused entry from the off.

sovtek

Originally posted by bloggs
I heard this debate on the radio a few weeks ago, where a guy wanted to get into a club while wearing a tracksuit. I don't wear tracksuits or runners, so it doesn't really apply to me, but why not just wear what they require?

Well for one it's not up to a pub to dictate what one should or should not wear as well as it makes no sense to refuse to do business with someone based upon what they wear.
When you throw in the equation an idiot bouncer you raise all sorts of issues.
I thought that pub was short for "public bar" as in open to the public.

Stark

I don't really agree with the trainers rule, there's not really much point to it. It seems as well in Cork that the nicer places like the savoy are the places that are cool about dress code (they seem to be going on the basis that nice atmosphere and good music will keep the scum out), whereas ****holes like Redz are totally anal about it.
In the case of tracksuits though, I think you should be shot for wearing a tracksuit clubbing or anywhere else other than the gym.

gollem_1975

(going out in Dublin city centre) for a while now that as a guy , wearing trainers and turning up at a club a 1am on a busy night all lead to a very good chance in being refused ( unless you are a regular .. ie: go there every week ) .
there is absolutely nothing illegal about a bouncer refusing someone because of their footwear. the police won't entertain any complaints due to R.O.A.R . in fact I was told by a policeman that they( doorstaff ) don't actually have to give you a reason as to why you are not getting in.

bonkey

Originally posted by gollem_1975
in fact I was told by a policeman that they( doorstaff ) don't actually have to give you a reason as to why you are not getting in.

Correct. However, if they choose to offer a reason, then it had better be a legal one.

Imagine if a bouncer turned away someone making an absolutely racial slur as the reason why they were being refused. Do you think the police would refuse to get involved on the grounds that "well, he may have called you a slanty-eyed gook, but he didn't actually have to offer you any reason, so you can still do nothing about it".

No, somehow I don't think so.

jc

sovtek

Originally posted by gollem_1975

there is absolutely nothing illegal about a bouncer refusing someone because of their footwear. the police won't entertain any complaints due to R.O.A.R .

Can I ask what a/is R.O.A.R?

gollem_1975

R.O.A.R. = right of admission reserved

sovtek

Originally posted by bugler


I don't agree with dress codes by the way, but I never go to a reasonably upmarket pub (or any niteclub) wearing runners.

I wouldn't mind dress codes so much if they are equally enforced and posted. They are usually arbitrarily enforced based on whatever reason the idiot at the door decides. This often coincides with how quickly after closing time he/she wants to go home.
Anyway, when its late there are very few choices on where to drink. I often work late but I'm not in the "hospitality" industry.

Meh

Originally posted by sovtek
Can I ask what a/is R.O.A.R?

Right Of Admission Reserved?

They can refuse you for whatever reason they like, as long as it isn't one of these nine reasons (and there are even exceptions to some of those reasons).

bloggs

I have given up on niteclubs, bouncers giving you hassle when you aren't drunk, and letting in people who can't even stand. Then when you are inside, you spend the whole nite queueing for the bar, only to have some halfwit pi** on you (didn't happen to me, but hear of a girl it happened to), then when you get to the bar you are ripped off for 5 euro a pint. Then queue for a taxi, to be ripped off again.

Ok it's not alway that bad, but i prefer a few drinks in the house with my g/f and friends

sovtek

Originally posted by gollem_1975
(going out in Dublin city centre) for a while now that as a guy , wearing trainers and turning up at a club a 1am on a busy night all lead to a very good chance in being refused ( unless you are a regular .. ie: go there every week ) .

I wouldn't have went there unless I had a choice. I go out late because I work late.
It was a new bouncer and I go there about every other week or so.
It wasn't busy .

there is absolutely nothing illegal about a bouncer refusing someone because of their footwear. the police won't entertain any complaints due to R.O.A.R . in fact I was told by a policeman that they( doorstaff ) don't actually have to give you a reason as to why you are not getting in. [/B]

That may be true but I know that can't refuse anyone. There is the Equality Act of 2000 (I can't seem to find the actual Act though) that prohibits the refusal of goods/services based on certain criteria.
I know a certain pub was sued a few
years ago for not serving some under 23's.
I wouldn't always rely on police to translate the law, unless its something they deal with on a regular basis, they often don't know it themselves. They also tend to have a bias in favor of bouncers.

seamus

Originally posted by sovtek
Well for one it's not up to a pub to dictate what one should or should not wear as well as it makes no sense to refuse to do business with someone based upon what they wear.

A pub can choose to do business with whomever they please, so long as they're not being discriminatory. Dress codes tend to be based on the fairly reliable idea that 90% of people dressed like scumbags, are scumbags, and not worth the hassle they may cause. If someone in front of me arrived at a club dressed in a tracksuit I'd laugh at him.

Clubs also like to think that if they keep their clientele respectable and well-dressed, then they get the respectable and well-dressed clientele to come to their club and can charge more. Which is crap obviously.

There's no good reason for refusing people with normal runners (ie not white, & clean & respectable) except as a power trip for the bouncers. If a club refuses me because of runners, I refuse to go near there again. Only happened once though, in Bob's.

Imposter

...but at least it's good to know that such fine upstanding pillars of the community (bouncers and publicans) who are so in touch with everything are just acting in your own best interests by being the fashion police! After all who would want to suffer the embarassment of being in a place in a pair of 'trainers'.

Does anyone know why runners are picked on? Would I get into these places in flip-flops, sandals, golf shoes (without the spikes) or barefoot?

sovtek

Originally posted by Imposter
Would I get into these places in flip-flops, sandals, golf shoes (without the spikes) or barefoot?

The odds go up if you happen to be female. Hmmmm isn't that "discrimination"?

Sleipnir

Sinnot's by Stephen's green there had a crazy rule, dunno if they still have it but you couldn't get in wearing runners after 21:00.
Turn up in runners at 20:55, no problem. Turn up at 2101 with runners;
"Sorry bud, no runners after 9"
Whether or not those who had gotten in there before 9 wearing runners were asked to remove them, I cannot tell.......

Stark

The odds go up if you happen to be female. Hmmmm isn't that "discrimination"?

If only there were more gay bouncers.

bloggs

Originally posted by Kananga
Sinnot's by Stephen's green there had a crazy rule, dunno if they still have it but you couldn't get in wearing runners after 21:00.
Turn up in runners at 20:55, no problem. Turn up at 2101 with runners;
"Sorry bud, no runners after 9"
Whether or not those who had gotten in there before 9 wearing runners were asked to remove them, I cannot tell.......

What if you are queuing at 8.55, but don't reach the bouncher 9.01

Sleipnir

well we all know that bouncers are great listeners when someone has woes. I'm sure if you explained how you were waiting to get in for a few minutes, they'd give you an understanding smile, and usher you down the steps with a hearty laugh.

Stark

about as heartily as I laughed there I'd say

sovtek

Originally posted by Meh
Right Of Admission Reserved?

They can refuse you for whatever reason they like, as long as it isn't one of these nine reasons (and there are even exceptions to some of those reasons).

I thought that is why they stopped being able to refuse because of dress. That was what the whole trainer thing was supposed to weed out.
How else are you going to know a "travelling person" unless by dress or how they speak?

sovtek

Originally posted by Kananga
well we all know that bouncers are great listeners when someone has woes. I'm sure if you explained how you were waiting to get in for a few minutes, they'd give you an understanding smile, and usher you down the steps with a hearty laugh.

I'd love for a bouncer to "usher me down the steps" because I decided to question his door policy. That's the day I'd retire early.

bloggs

Sorta side issue, but i know a guy and his friends who was at a lap dancing club, and there was an middleaged woman outside who ushered them in. They got one dance and a few drinks, when they got the bill they discoverd the usher had charged them 100 quid way over the odds. They refused as they didn't have the extra money, so they were frog marched to a ATM, from which they did a runner. They said that on the way out there was a notice (size of a stamp) saying that you had to pay for the usher if you wished to have her bring you down.

Cabaal

To be honest there not breaking any laws, places can have a dress code.

So you’re telling me you’ll get pissed off and throw a fit if a Restaurant refuses you because you’re wearing jeans, runners and a t-shirt?

They can do it if they want to

Alot of nightclubs have a fav line “dress up to get down"

Basically that covers them,

Cabaal

Originally posted by bloggs
They said that on the way out there was a notice (size of a stamp) saying that you had to pay for the usher if you wished to have her bring you down.

Ok this is somewhat related but a certain fast food shop in Kilkenny has a very small sign behind the counter syaing they charge you 3.50 if you stay in and sit and eat at the tables.

To Be honest they even charged me 3.50 one day for a take away.
The same fast food outlet in Waterford does not charge anything for eating in.

Apparently "They have all your money in there hands..."

Woden

I was refused entry to redz on saturday night as they said they where full, if they did that to get rid of me screw them, if they did it out of safety and the fact that they had reached there capacity i'd say fair play to them, i hate it when clubs crowd them in, i hung around for a couple of minutes while we decided where to go and they where refusing other people, there was the enavitable boys ringing there 'girlfriends' and calling them to the front door etc. going on.