Pubs: What needs to be done

sovtek

IMHO anyway...

1. Allow anyone that is of age and has no criminal record to be granted a license.

-Will increase competition and in turn lower prices because of competition. Will increase quality of service as well as product.

2. Grant all licensees option to be open 24 hours
-Will also help to increase competition as not everyone will have to go to dodgy, overpriced pubs after 23:30/12:30 (and early on Thursdays again FFS!!).
-Will also lower incidents of public drunkeness. People who aren't rushed to drink will drink slower and, in turn, drink less. Varied opening times (as determined by the owner) will not add to the current situation where everyone is put on street at the same time, with limited transport home.

3. Lower tax on all alcohol and cigarettes.
-Will help to not make a vice a financial burden on lower income and lower prices of drink in pubs/off-license.

4. Allow all food related (grocery store, corner shop) shops to be off-license.
-Will help create more competition for off-license so as to lower price of drink.

bloggs

Originally posted by sovtek

-Will also lower incidents of public drunkeness. People who aren't rushed to drink will drink slower and, in turn, drink less. Varied opening times (as determined by the owner) will not add to the current situation where everyone is put on street at the same time, with limited transport home.
.

Have to take point with this, i think people drink to much not due to the time they have left in the pub, but it just the way they are. Take a look at the kids who hang around with their bottles of cider on street corners. No length of opening hours will affect the people who wish to end up in the Matter Hospital every weekend to get their stomach pumped.

sovtek

Originally posted by bloggs
Have to take point with this, i think people drink to much not due to the time they have left in the pub, but it just the way they are.

If you look at any country that has 24 hour drinking and the usual behavior is that I described.
Early hours just means people drink faster and further encourages binge drinking. Then you send everyone out on the street at one time. It isn't the only factor but a major one which contributes to drunken brawls.
I've seen people get 3 pints at last round here.
When I go to SA it's the British and Irish that are passing out at 1 or 2AM, not the locals and not the Continentals .
After time they get used to it and start drinking slower and go home when they feel they've had enough.
Of course some people are going to have a drinking problem. They will have that no matter the drinking hours or access/cost to alcohol.
If you look at western countries that have very restrictive laws re. alcohol, those will be the people that seem to have more problems handling the responsibility.

Take a look at the kids who hang around with their bottles of cider on street corners. No length of opening hours will affect the people who wish to end up in the Matter Hospital every weekend to get their stomach pumped.

They key word here being "kids". There's a reason they aren't in the pub. When the get older most will handle themselves and some will not. It's the same as people anywhere.
There will always be people that are going to abuse something (alcohol, drugs, sex, gambling..etc. ).
Treating everyone like children to protect a few is a sure way to make most everyone act like children.

The Beer Baron

I think you're being a little idealistic tho I do agree with most of what you say. In Australia many places are open 24/7- I didn't see one fight and the only one drinking to excess was me- well, because I could I suppose. I don't think I was that obnoxious tho (not as much as I could be and have been known to be) and while the Aussies were certainly rowdy, there were no fights, no problems whatsoever- just general drunken ****e-talkin' fuudy-jock Aussieness.

And Aussies can drink too- pint for pint they can match us any day of the week, and a lot would be of Celtic descent too. Nao worries daya So why there and not here?

Is it us- I've said it before in another thread but really- look at Europe- their drinking laws are soooo much more relaxed. My girlfriend is German and cannot believe how crazy it is here. On one side there's the drunken insanity, on the other side- the fact that elsewhere in Europe it's ok to walk down the street with a beer, to sit in the park with a beer, buy nice cheap beer in a petrol station, etc, etc...

Is it because Ireland is, inherently depressing place?
Is it because Irish society is in a complete mess?

Or is it that the Irish people just can't drink in a sociable manner?

Hmm- I suppose with my online name I have a reason to be on about this but it seems all I've been writing about is drink- and all I can think about is getting the **** outa here and having a pint!

gom

I went out with a Dutch girl in college(here in Ireland) for a time this year. She was pissed off by the fact that to go out with friends in the night she would have to leave the library and her study at about 7 so as to have sufficent time in the pub with them. Where as in holland(and everywhere) else she would be able to study until library closing time at 10pm after a sufficently longer period of time in the library and then go meet her friends in the pub


why?
no mandatory closing time

my 2c

Imposter

Here's what I would do:
1: Grant licences to anyone who has a suitable premises that meets all health and safety regulations, who will manage the pub themselves (make it harder for big chains to open everywhere) and obviously does not have a criminal record. Possibly charge a modest fee for these but nothing excessive. (Something like new taxi plate prices)

2: Allow cafes, restaurants sell alcohol provided they meet conditions like above.

3: Allow off sales anywhere people want to sell it.

4: Update underage selling laws to have much more severe penalties.

5: Introduce compulsory ID for everyone (can be existing id). This will eliminate **** with "oh i'm <insert random age> I don't need to carry ID".

6: Reduce legal age to 16. If young people are drinknig surely its better they drink in front of 'responsible' adults than in bushes or wherever.

7: Opening hours not 24hr but something like 10am - 4am or whatever the premises decides themselves inside those bounds.

8: Make pubs/restaurants/cafes responsible if they serve clearly drunk people.

9: No compensation for existing landlords. If they spent 1m+ on a licence then tough. It was through their own greed in the first place.

Most of this is similar to what's been said but I think those few extra bits are neccesary too. I think if something like this were to be introduced it would take maybe 2-3 years for things to settle down and peoples attitudes to change. Initially I reckon there may be problems but in the long term it would pan out like in most european countries where a responsible attitude to alcohol is taken by the majority.

sovtek

Originally posted by The Beer Baron
I think you're being a little idealistic tho

Maybe but I don't think so (I seem to hear that alot here) I've merely pointed out ways that other people/countries use to sovle problems and that generally work. I don't think that's idealistic, in fact I think it's practical.

And Aussies can drink too- pint for pint they can match us any day of the week, and a lot would be of Celtic descent too. Nao worries daya So why there and not here?

I think that has alot to do with history both economic and social.
To say that Irish people are deficient in some manner seems like a cop out to me as well an excuse not to change anything.

in Europe it's ok to walk down the street with a beer, to sit in the park with a beer, buy nice cheap beer in a petrol station, etc, etc...

Aint it cool.

Is it because Ireland is, inherently depressing place?

I don't think so but I would point out that there isn't a whole lot to do besides drink.
Something I think should be pointed out when what's his face starts barking abot underage drinking.

Or is it that the Irish people just can't drink in a sociable manner?

Again I think this is a cop out and the government seems to like to insinuate it more than anyone.

and all I can think about is getting the **** outa here and having a pint!

Yea me too

chewy

i reckon a consumer group nees to be set up for pub and gig goers basically late night punters in ireland

when you read these articles about drinking in ireland
quotes only every come from the vintners or political parties

and recently ive seen more reasonable suggestions onlyy come from secondary school heads or victims groups( and the victims groups have not always put out sensible suggestions)

a consumer groups to dela with drinking laws age and promotion of gigs and safety at night made of punters rather then business men

therecklessone

Originally posted by sovtek

-Will also lower incidents of public drunkeness. People who aren't rushed to drink will drink slower and, in turn, drink less. Varied opening times (as determined by the owner) will not add to the current situation where everyone is put on street at the same time, with limited transport home.

I agree. I think its crazy that we allow people to order three/four drinks at closing time, then expect them to queue quietly for a taxi or nightlink just as those extra drinks start to kick in.

Branta

I agree with most of the stuff here - deregulation of licensed trade will certainly increase price and service competition (look at taxi deregulation). It would be good to see places that already have a sit down and relax atmosphere like cafes coffeshops pizza places serve a drink even if it was only bottled beer.

This country is supposed to be famous for pubs and Guinness
BUT
you cannot get a decent bottle of wine in a pub (std bottle not silly airline 1/4 btl)
NOR
can you get a Guinness with a meal in most restuarants.

we dont want or need a nanny state telling us what when or how we can consume legal drugs like alcohol or cofffee.

comparisons with other countries dont work so well for me. A lot of my travels have led me to believe that he irish are differnt not least in their attitude and susceptability to alcohol. Also irish alcohol laws are unique apart from UK and we dont want to go down that road.

The issue of drink as a health problem and public drunkeness as a social problem are different issues. They are related but it is futile to try to resolve them by trying to prohibit or restrict access to alcohol.