Ban on "Smoking" in licensed premises/Pubs etc, Right or Wrong ??..

RainyDay

Hi Paddy

Have you ever dealt with Environmental Health officers. They are a damned joke. the laws are not enforced .

I'd guess that the owners of the SIX FOOD BUSINESSES CLOSED IN JULY might disagree with you on this.

Paddy20

RainyDay,

What!, only "SIX CLOSED". That proves my point very nicely. Should be bloody hundreds.

P.;)

RainyDay

I reckon closure of six pubs a month would be a fairly effective deterrent to pub owners. But they have closed many many more outlets and issued public enforcement orders to many others. See total enforcement orders if you really want the full details.

azi

A day will come, when every activity that is "disgusting" or "wrong" or "unsafe" and is only pursued by a minority, will be banned.

-Cigarettes
-Drink
-Motorcycles
-Loud music
-Skateboarding
-Mountain climbing
-Sex

etc, etc.

Remember my words when you march in lock-step from your pathetic little homes to your pathetic little jobs while being watched by CCTV cameras to make sure you don't step out of line.
I won't be here then.

azi.

bloggs

Originally posted by azi
A day will come, when every activity that is "disgusting" or "wrong" or "unsafe" and is only pursued by a minority, will be banned.

-Cigarettes
-Drink
-Motorcycles
-Loud music
-Skateboarding
-Mountain climbing
-Sex

etc, etc.

Remember my words when you march in lock-step from your pathetic little homes to your pathetic little jobs while being watched by CCTV cameras to make sure you don't step out of line.
I won't be here then.

azi.

We will be saying 'where's Azi', 'who?' 'there is no azi'

blorg

Originally posted by azi
A day will come, when every activity that is "disgusting" or "wrong" or "unsafe" and is only pursued by a minority, will be banned.

-Cigarettes
-Drink
-Motorcycles
-Loud music
-Skateboarding
-Mountain climbing
-Sex

etc, etc.

Well, I for one am glad that motorcycles, skateboarding, mountain climbing and sex are banned in public houses...

Paddy20

RainyDay,

Thanks for that interesting link, even though it is slightly off topic?.. just had to put that in, before we get jumped on by a mod!.

I had a look at it, even added it to my favourites list, as I never even knew it existed. I notice that a total of only "27 Closure orders" have to date been issued in 2003. In ALL of Ireland?..again confirming my opinion of Environmental Health Officers.

Now, I really must get back - on topic, Tiddily dee, tiddily dum...

P.;)

charlie_says

I realise there is a majority of people out there who don't smoke ie 71% of the population (to the best of my knowledge) but I would think it might be enlightening to find out which camps the smokers and non smokers go into regarding if they dont like smoke in a pub for their *own sake and personal preference*

It would be interesting to do a poll titled something like
when the "Its 2004, pub smoking ban is in effect you see some one smoking in a bar would you....." (the reason I say this is because I have no idea how to setup a poll) just to gauge the publics reaction to smoking in a bar once the ban comes in to play.

Choices are something like.....

A
Im a non smoker and I don't mind people smoking around me - I wouldn't ask them to put it out or inform a staff member until it became uncomforably smokey and then I would ask the smoker to stop or inform bar staff now that the ban can help me.

B
Im a non smoker and I would ask them to put out their smokes and or inform a staff member because it really irritates me to be in any kind of proximity to smokers and after all its banned here now, its my duty for my sake and others!

C
Im a non smoker and I don't mind if people smoke around me even if it gets very smokey - at least I know I don't smoke myself but the others can go ahead.

D
Im a smoker - although it seems more than a bit cheeky to do it pubs now that is has been banned and I won't be smoking here for whatever ban or non-ban reasons, however I would not tell them to stop smoking or inform a staff member.

E
Im a smoker and now that it is illegal I would ask the person to stop smoking or inform a staff member. I respect the ban and believe everyone else should. I will not be smoking in any bars!

F
Im a smoker, and I will smoke here regardless of the ban. Fair juice to the other smokers! Time for a fag....


So some one make a poll! Dunno if this go in the political forum or the after hours....

bloggs

Why do people asume that all smokers are against the ban? I know a lot of smokers and they are for the ban as they think it's unfair for people to suffer because of their habbit.

The Beer Baron

I'm just going to assume that as long as pubs admit people that start fights, that are underage, that are ravaged by amphetamines drinking vodka and Red Bulls and hollaring like palsied baboons but refuse entry to the likes of me based on my shoes they will enforce a non-smoking ban.
But as long as there are lock-ins and grumpy old men and nice cosy pubs that don't raise an eyebrow when someone blazes up a spliff, I can find a nice dark cozy corner snuggle up with my girlfriend and my Guinness and unwind after a long day of dealing with customers and ranting on boards.

RainyDay

Oh come on Paddy & give the point-scoring a rest and stop dragging us off-topic.

I find it hard to believe that any individual could have hard evidence regarding "hundreds of outlets". Do you spend your spare weekends sniffing around the back doors of restaurant kitchens?

Do you have real evidence regarding 'hundreds' of food outlets which should be closed down? If so, please pass it onto your local Environmental Health Officer. This will protect all of us from potentially fatal illnesses. We look forward to seeing a nice spike in the FSAI numbers over the next few months.

On the other hand, if you have just formed a casual opinion that environmental health officers aren't doing their job based on a couple of incidents from your past, then of course you are entitled to your opinion, but we can all see that this is based purely on anecdotal evidence.

Paddy20

RainyDay,

While I consider your post not really appropriate for this thread. That part is up to the moderators.

I may not have hard evidence about about the food outlets. Thats something the Environmental Health Officers should have a duty too make available but obviously can not. As in my experience they are ill trained and incompetent. On what basis have I reached this conclusion.

Well, having been involved in the Citizens Advice Bureaux voluntary services for many years I was personally involved in a large number of unavoidable legal cases where I personally challenged without any legal representation the competance and validity of evidence being produced by these officers. I never lost a case where I challenged their qualifications, judgment and or competance. The presiding Judges usually dismissed the cases and would send the E.H.Os out of Court with a flea in their collective ears.

Can we now please get back on the main subject of my thread.The " Ban on "Smoking" in licensed premises/Pubs etc, Right or Wrong ?..

P.

gandalf

I'm in two minds whether to close this thread or not.

The discussion is going around in circles and heading off topic a bit as well.

I'll wait to see what the next couple of posts are like before I decide on shutting it down.

Gandalf.

Paddy20

gandalf,

Looks as though your statement : " That you were in two minds whether to close this thread or not " has frightened posters off!.

So, I suppose it is up to me to start the debate again.

I was just reading the website of the: "Office of Tobacco Control in Ireland". A site that until today I did not even know existed and as it was *RainyDay, that posted the link on one of his posts, then I must express my genuine thanks to him for posting the link, which I regrettably missed earlier.

The site illustrates from the medical professions point of view just how complex this smoking issue really is. I found it extremely interesting , informative, educational, and relevant imho to this thread and *Poll for anyone wishing to post on this thread in the future here is the official link : www.otc.ie/

That is of course assuming that you will decide to leave it open due to its social relevance in relation to, Health, Social change and the Hospitality sector.

P.

Stonemason

The only thing for me is that no other significant causes have been found that I am aware of. The thing is that these causes will exist everywhere, so you can obtain a reasonable "background count" if you like which shows you what the average incidence of lung-cancer amongst non-smokers is. You can then compare this against your studies, and while 15% may not be conclusive, it does show that something has skewed the results.

It’s often my fault for not making myself clearer I tend to expect people to read between the lines which I believe you have done quite well .

For instance I used asbestos as an example mainly because no one knows how much asbestos is still floating around out there it was used very extensively in building not so many years ago. God forbid but for arguments sake you could be doing some restoration work in your house and unwittingly release asbestos into your habitat which in turn could trigger cancer.(less likely now due to awareness)but you can see where im going with this how would they ever calculate a random coincidences like this. My worry would be that like most doctors today (in my opinion) if you go in with and illness (stress. high blood pressure, fatigue, ECT ECT) they ask do you smoke if you answer yes they virtually dismis you out of hand. I cant help shake the feeling if a non smoker went into a doctor with lung cancer they would look farther afield for the cause rather than a knee jerk reaction to a smoker of, well what did you expect YOU SMOKE!! The truth is in the current climate they would be more likely to say do you live with a smoker? Do you work in a Smokey place? And if it proved they did would they look any further? This bias alone could as you said could give false readings

Just for your own piece of mind

Asbestos Update is an up-to-date survey of medical and legal options for mesothelioma patients, including medical abstracts, doctor referrals and mesothelioma patient profiles. Mesothelioma is a cancer of the lining of the lungs, lining of the abdomen, or heart caused by exposure to asbestos. We update our website DAILY with current news and medical information. Our website is widely regarded by asbestos lawyers as "the best" website for up-to-date medical information

Ill shall leave it the way you did and respectfully say we agree to disagree, though I would add I get the sneaking suspicion that we have both been playing devils advocate a little

gandalf

Originally posted by Paddy20
gandalf,

Looks as though your statement : " That you were in two minds whether to close this thread or not " has frightened posters off!.

So, I suppose it is up to me to start the debate again.

[snipped]

That is of course assuming that you will decide to leave it open due to its social relevance in relation to, Health, Social change and the Hospitality sector.

P.

Paddy do not presume to tell me how to mod this forum.

Thread closed.

Gandalf.