Aston Villa - Liverpool

AthAnRi

Posted by smuckers
I am shocked that Gerrard wasn't sent off it was a two footed lunge far worse than Geremis, but the FA will turn a blind eye when it comes to both Pool and Utd

I'm Sorry. Remind me again of which UTD player should have been sent off this wend?

It was a harsh decision by the ref to send off Geremi but then again he shouldn't have gone in 2 footed.

smuckers

Athn I meant in general re Utd Fergie will prob only get a slap on the wrist for abusive language at the ref.

AthAnRi

So in General Smuckers, when was the last time a UTD player deserved to be sent off and wasn't?

Fergie will prob only get a slap on the wrist for abusive language at the ref

And rightly so. He was sent off for being passionate. what did Jeff Winter expect him to do? Sit down and applaud the decission.

Either way Ferguson was punished by being off in case you missed it.

smuckers

1.Paul Scholes shoud have gone last year in the CL for a two footed challenge.
2. Van Nist is a great player but but does dive quite a bit and shoud have gone on a good few occassions but got away with it everytime.
3. Utd Vs Boro at Old Trafford when the ref gave Boro a penno they went absolutley mental and there were hands actually on the refs chest.
There are a number of more occassions.

AthAnRi

2. Van Nist is a great player but but does dive quite a bit and shoud have gone on a good few occassions but got away with it everytime.
3. Utd Vs Boro at Old Trafford when the ref gave Boro a penno they went absolutley mental and there were hands actually on the refs chest.
There are a number of more occassions.

Diving = Yellow Card at most
Whay did frank lampard not get a booking for diving against Leicester. His dive indirectly led to a player getting sent off

Arguing and brushing against ref = Yellow Card

To be honest if you tell me the game that Scholes should have been sent off in I may remember. It isn't selective memory but I may not have seen the match.

Either way your going a long way into the past to find a UTD example. And there pretty lame. There was plenty of examples you could have used from the wend. Like Newcastle's O'Brien. You see it happens in Every Game. Bad decissions. But unfortunately if it happens in a Utd, Arsenal or Liverpool game it is highlighted by everyone, especially the media.

p.pete

Originally posted by smuckers
1.Paul Scholes shoud have gone last year in the CL for a two footed challenge.

Fair enough but that has nothing to do with the FA.

Originally posted by smuckers

2. Van Nist is a great player but but does dive quite a bit and shoud have gone on a good few occassions but got away with it everytime.

I hate the guy but generally he dives after being touched. It is diving but I think he's exploiting a grey area of the law. I hate his guts for it though.

Originally posted by smuckers

3. Utd Vs Boro at Old Trafford when the ref gave Boro a penno they went absolutley mental and there were hands actually on the refs chest.

With the number of penalties united recieve, if each decision was defended as venomously and disgracefully by the opposition as united themselves did on that occasion there would be mayhem.

I agree that there are probably lots of other examples over the last few seasons.

Potentially it is as a result of Liverpool and Man Utd having more key English players. Arsenal and Chelsea have typically been composed of non English players, so less protection. Teams in relegation battles rarely would have more than one english international - if any and they always feel they are given a raw end of the deal when it comes to ref decisions when playing the top teams.

AthAnRi

I agree that there are probably lots of other examples over the last few seasons.

No offence pete but how can you agree with something your not sure of. I will go as far as to say that UTd may recieve a number of favourable decisions, but only as much as Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal recieve. But i disaree that UTD should have recieved any more red cards than they did last season. They have had one of the best records in the Premiership since it started.

If you were to see every game live on TV next wend, I garuntee that there will be incidents in every single game that could be deemed as a red card offence or as 2 bookable offences but nothing is given.

There will also be penalty descissons in every game that go a mis. The thing is that it will be the games that are live on Sky that will be examined closest. People only like to highlight uniteds incidents because they are leading the way.

smuckers

The game which Scholes should have been sent off was Basle last season.

p.pete

Originally posted by AthAnRi
No offence pete but how can you agree with something your not sure of.

Without being sure I am able to agree with a probability. That is all.

I would say Liverpool and ManU have gotten more favourability from referees and the FA over the last few years and I'm sure Arsene Wenger would back me up on that one.

smemon

oh yes, basle, the team that knocked out liverpool, now i remember.

brazil and real madrid are the best in the world, why? because they dont defend and dont go out looking for clean sheets ahead of goals. take note liverpool.

fergie shouldnt get anything, sure every manu fan was saying the same thing. giggs was furious too. uriah rennie should be banned for poor performance. managers always get heated.

1 point out of 6 for liverpool.
long may it continue. they dont deserve to beat anyone with defensive attitude.

TwoShedsJackson

Although it pains me to agree with smemon, he's right as regards Liverpool's general play, and Fergie's reaction on Saturday. The way Liverpool are playing at the moment they don't deserve to win a game, it's the most negative play I've seen in years.

Fergie was rightly upset Saturday that O'Brien wasn't sent off, and I'm saying this as a Newcastle supporter - but I am glad O'Brien wasn't sent off

smemon

yes, someone agrees with me for once.

i know you must defend and try and keep clean sheets but let your centre backs and keeper do that! not your midfielders and strikers.

clean sheets mean nothing at the end of the season. nobody cares who concedes the least goals. why wont houllier just let the handbrake of his side and say,' go out there and attack, attcak, attack'. 'i want goals, not clean sheets'. 'the best form of defense is attack'.

kamobe

Liverpool manager Gerard Houllier remained upbeat despite his side's goalless draw at Aston Villa, which leaves them with only one point from their opening two games.

The Frenchman felt his team responded well to their opening day defeat to Chelsea and believes they will gain confidence from keeping a clean sheet.

"It is difficult to say if it was half a win or half a defeat today," he said. "But we played with plenty of character which is what we need if we want to progress.

"I am pleased with the way we responded to the defeat in the Chelsea game because to give away a goal in the last five minutes always affects your confidence.

"Today we showed that confidence which is good. We needed to strengthen our defensive side today which we did. We had good chances and I thought their goalkeeper was outstanding."

Absolute crackers there from houllier including "we played with character... I am pleased with the way we responded... We needed to strengthen our defensive side today...."

Is this part of his master plan? Didn't PORTSMOUTH beat these guys last week!?! Seriously, bring back Evans. Okay we weren't winning, but at least we played football.

Aston Villa in fairness were pretty good and carved Liverpool open several times (when did they decide to push the defence up so far??). But they were only good because Liverpool were RUBBISH.

Villain

I have to say on a quick read of this thread most comments seem to be about Liverpools poor showing, which I accept by there standars it was a poor performance.

But I think Villa deserve some credit they played with some real heart, and played some very nice football too.

Peter Whittingham only 18 was delivering balls of real quality, Mellberg had Owen in his pocket, McCann and Barry were well able for gerrard and Murphy. Vassell's pace was a constant threat, just a pitty Allback was out I would have fancied him to have done better than Angel did.

If Villa continue to play like we did on sunday I think we can do quite well this season.

McCann and Sorresson look like really good buys.

LizardKing

I did not watch the match , but had a 6 match accumalator riding on this result and arsenals ... Feckin' liverpool had to be the only team to let me down ... I vow never to bet on them winning again ... until they start to show some consistency and style ...

Its slightly embarressin to be Pool fan At the mo .. there is no comebacks to the slags from other teams fans especiallty ManU fans .... However lets hope its just a start of season blip and not a taste of whats to come for next year ...If it does not turn around I'll give Houllier until CrimBo ....

GuanYin

Originally posted by smemon
yes, someone agrees with me for once.

i know you must defend and try and keep clean sheets but let your centre backs and keeper do that! not your midfielders and strikers.

clean sheets mean nothing at the end of the season. nobody cares who concedes the least goals. why wont houllier just let the handbrake of his side and say,' go out there and attack, attcak, attack'. 'i want goals, not clean sheets'. 'the best form of defense is attack'.

Swindon scored in every game but 2 when they were in the premiership. They played good attacking football. They got relegated dead last. Why? They couldn't defend.

Kevin Keegans teams play great attacking football. They score for fun. How many Kevin Keegan managed teams have ever won a trophy? Keegans teams leak goals and they couldn't keep a clean sheet against a decent team to save their lives.

There is absolutely no team in the permiership that doesn't have defending midfielders. Utd would crumble (and we have seen this happen) without Keane there to protect the defence. He tracks back, he defends. Butt does the same job. Solsk, Giggs and scholes all track back and tackle.

Liverpool have been overly defensive in the past and they played most of last season with some horrible 6-3-1 formation but there problem hasn't been not attacking, its just being very predictable in attacking (long ball to owen or heskey, its easy to defend).

This season so far Liverpool have been attacking. If you can't see that then you a) haven't watched the matches or b) don't know anything about football.

Despite their attacking play they still are predictable up front. This makes them boring agreed. They have also been playing awful football.


However, to say that they have not been attacking and that defense isn't important, is, as Johnny Giles would say "A Nonsense".

jesus_thats_gre

Just with reference to Real and Brazil being the best in the world because they attact as oppossed to defending...

Real were not exactly convincing last season in the Spanish League, never mind the Champions League.

As for Brazil, were they the best team in the last world cup, many would feel that they didnt deserve to win it either. Sort of jammed it really.

As for united, the season before they got Ferdinand, they were a shambles. Leaking goals from all directions and if I remember correctly, did not win the league that season.

The simple fact of the matter is, a team goes out to win by scoring more than they concede. A strong defense is extremely important to all the best football teams in the world, it is a building block for a fine team.

As a defensive team, Liverpool are one of the best. Unfortunately they have not got the balance right, and are now too dependant on getting a defensive victory as oppossed to obliterating a team 5-0..... This is glaringly obvious and done not need to be repeated in 50 threads. On paper, Liverpool also have a sufficiently potent midfield and forward line, there just seems to be a missing link. People have said Duff would have been the perfect player. well if he is, Harry Kewell is certainly good enough too.

There is only two games of the season left, see what heppens before you write them off. At the end of October last season, many people dimissed United's chances and reckoned Liverpool would win. Look how that changed.....

The Muppet

Gerrard and owen have reportedly said that they will leave if Liverpool are not playing in the CL next year. Can the board affort to kepp GH as manager and risk losing these two or will he go? While liverpool have an admirable history of loyalty to the manager surely the prospect of losing their two best players is increasing the pressure for them to act. What Odds on Gh being the first managerial casulty of the new season if things dont improve rapidly.

smemon

houllier is a cup manager. not a season long manager. defense wins nothing.

anyone who puts defending before attacking doesnt deserve to win. dont get me wrong, 2 rocks like hypia and henchoz are invaluable and a key part of any team. but if u want points u have to score.

keegans teams and swindon were exciting to watch, ok they were crap, defensively but i'd pay to see them. i wouldnt pay to see dull liverpool. ive much more respect for teams like bolton, man city, blackburn than i do for liverpool.

AngelofFire

Sorensen made some great saves. McCann and Barry seemed to be cutting holes in l`pool`s midfield. Hendrie and Whittingham did the business down the flanks. J llyod samuel made harry kewell look like kevin kilbane.

We should of beaten them 2-0 angel missed a sitter and whittingham was unlucky to have his shot cleared off the line by Diouf. We lack that bit of venom on front of goal. hopefully o`leary and his new coaching staff can address that problem.

Overall we played well. the match against arsenal on wednesday will be tough but hopefully we can hold out for a draw. Then we can claim three points against leicster on saturday

GuanYin

Originally posted by smemon
houllier is a cup manager. not a season long manager. defense wins nothing.

anyone who puts defending before attacking doesnt deserve to win. dont get me wrong, 2 rocks like hypia and henchoz are invaluable and a key part of any team. but if u want points u have to score.

keegans teams and swindon were exciting to watch, ok they were crap, defensively but i'd pay to see them. i wouldnt pay to see dull liverpool. ive much more respect for teams like bolton, man city, blackburn than i do for liverpool.

Jebus, do you know anything about football.

Name one premiership winning team that has not been built around a rock-solid defence?

Your beloved Utd are a counter attacking team, they sit back and defend and then hit on the break. They have started 3 games this season with 6 defensive players on the pitch. (back 4 plus Butt and Keane) Because they track back and cover and defend well, they don't concede sloppy goals and then get forward quickly when they win back possession.

That is a team who puts defense ahead of attack. The difference between them and liverpool is that they are actually have a balance.

BKtje

Err i doubt they put defence head of attack as such but fergie realises that in order to win you need to build on defence. The thing with Liverpool is that they don't build on their strong defence, they just have the foundations and think the house is built (or something ). You don't win much (unless ur Real Madrid) without thinking of defence but too be as negative as Liverpool is not the answer either.

man u can vary their play style. They can counter attack, dominate(attack a lot) or play a midfield game. Liverpool at the moment are (as has been said) very 1 dimensional and are really only defensive (imo) with long balls etc. They have improved on last season which is true but not enough to really challenge(on current performances).

smemon

utd are not a defensive side. even silvestre, o'shea, neville all bomb forward down the flanks.

liverpool only have risse. newcastle have not been built around a rock solid defence. their defence is pretty poor compared to pools, manu and arsenal. yet they attack and win because of that.

their great to watch and although they dont win anything, at least they dont cheat their way to wins like liverpool. get houllier out, boring. bring back evans.

LizardKing

smemon .. I think you have more than made your views clear ... I think everyone here can agree in some way with the points you are making , although I do think newcastle do now have some quality defenders , I also think they have a better midfield and strike force partnership than liverpool currently. A team means nothing on paper ... they have to play well together too which is up to the coach / manager to work on ...

At the mo. liverpool do not gel at all while attacking ... there are probably many reasons for this ... including houlliers choices / tactics .... I think also the longer Liverpool go on like this , the more real Liverpool fans will join up with the current doubters and then Houllier will really have to consider his position or the board may have to act....

However on a brighter note , Liverpool fans should not worry too much ... We are not title favourites , soon we will be underdogs in most games vs. the big four / five , which can help the team. I just hope they can get some fluidity and width going , a lot more pass and move rather than run and chase / knock over the top ....

colster

I think it's a bit too soon to pass judgement on Livepool this season. They've played only 2 games. They lost against Chelsea and drew with Villa. Thats no disgrace. Utd and Arsenal will both have trouble with Chelsea and Villa could give them some problems as well.

Dcully

think also the longer Liverpool go on like this , the more real Liverpool fans will join up with the current doubters and then Houllier will really have to consider his position or the board may have to act....

Well im a life long supporter and have stoutly defended GH last year on this very board amongst others but in fairness i am rapidly loosing faith,in fact i have totally lost faith.
I mean the winos on the street can see LFC play way too negative but GH doesnt.
Strange but true and at this stage he simply has to go.

p.pete

There is signs that the team is trying to attack more. Carragher is getting further forward than I have ever seen and Finnan once he settles in will also be getting forward on the Flanks. Hyppia usually bags a few goals in the season as does Riise.

In general at the moment the team is playing crap. We are not suffering from injuries at the moment, the only noticeable one is Hamann. Once they get used to playing together again and stop making sloppy mistakes I am hoping that things will improve.

At the moment I think Portsmouth are at the top of the table, Sunderland were 6th in Div one the other day, also both Liverpool and Newcastle were on only 1pt after 2 games - basicly at this stage in the season strange things happen and you can tell nothing on form.

Thanx 4 The Fish

I am sure Liverpool will see how to properly dispatch Aston Villa this evening.

G

Originally posted by Thanx 4 The Fish
I am sure Liverpool will see how to properly dispatch Aston Villa this evening.

I'm sure they will. Which will underline just how poor they've become.

smemon

in fainess to liverpool, villa aren't a really bad side, their a mid-table side and at home is were they relay on points.

under o'leary i think they will be more consistent, they seem to have tightened up the back 4 but now they cant score. (hey, i should be a poet!)

BUT... liverpool should have went with an all out attack early on and taken the game to villa. spurs for pool tonite, another draw beckons. houllier should resign if they lose.

m0o|Dino

Harry Kewell 3 - 0 Tottenham

smuckers

Pool's def was carved open on Sat too easily and if Postiga is on fire he'll have fun don't underestimate Spurs.

m0o|Dino

another thing stop all this evans ****e there was a reason why he was removed, if houllier gets the sack only 1 man could take up the job and be very successful and thats martin o neil, imagine /me cums. Theres only 2 games gone stop all this bull**** and wait until christmas then pass judgement

smemon

he's been there 6 years, how much more time does he need?? he supposedly got a '5 year plan'! hello gerard, its 6 years now. as for judging him over 2 games, its 6 seasons for me. especially the past 2.

they've gone downhill since the uefa cup win.

Thanx 4 The Fish

How long was Sir Alex there before he won anything ??

LizardKing

he's only really been "sole" manager since after summer 99 which is not 6 years yet ... He has won things for the club which is a lot more than other premiership managers have done... Although because of Liverpools tradition and heritage , a lot more is expected...

As said before 2 games into the season is not enough time to judge ... wait until christmas and then post your views


Cheers

LK--<

sidenote::
NewCastle Utd. are in same boat as pool after 2 games , Liverpool have won more silverware than them over the last 5 seasons , yet noone is saying get rid of Sir Bobby ...

p.pete

Originally posted by LizardKing
sidenote::
NewCastle Utd. are in same boat as pool after 2 games , Liverpool have won more silverware than them over the last 5 seasons , yet noone is saying get rid of Sir Bobby ...

That's basicly because people don't like the way Liverpool play football. There is the whole expectation thing but fans of other teams don't give a damn about that. No use winning all those cups if it isn't pretty.

The word is that we are trying to play more attacking football this season. The evidence so far is marginal and mostly undermined by crap performances. In this regard 2 games is definitely not enough to judge. Nevermind, I'm sure semon will repeat himself regardless.

LizardKing

I agree p.pete the football needs to change its boring and not like the Liverpool of old ....

I've been told ferguson took over utd. in 1986 and did not win anything until 1990 or 1991 ... seemingly he would have been sacked only for winning the F.A Cup in 90/91 ...

p.pete

And nobody regrets keeping Ferguson now....
You also have to bear in mind that United hadn't won the league in 30 years so there was less pressure there from the start. Generally Liverpool have not gone through managers very fast but since the mid eighties we have had at least 6 managers in full and part time capacities. Personally I would like to see a bit of stability, hopefully if this season is better than the last GH will be around a lot longer.

m0o|Dino

lizard king summed up everything there tbh, the liverpool board should give him till xmas so should the fans. cmon lads have faith