New Meath Motorway

Tha Gopher

Does anyone have details regarding this new motorway that is being built for 48km from Kells Co. Meath to Clonee on the Dublin outskirts? What I primarily want to know is when construction will start, when it should be finished by etc. Ive only saw some details of it on RTE and TV3 text.
Those of you who live around Louth should be able to tell me how long it took to build the motorway there which is AFAIK of roughly similiar length.
The reason I`m interested is that it will cut my journey time to Dublin immensely by the sounds of things. And better yet they are increasing the motorway speed limit to 75 mph (finally, Fianna Fail makes a new law that the people can actually benefit from).

Currently from where I live with a responsible enough driver it takes from just over an hours drive to 1hr 30, depending on the traffic and whoever is driving the car. I have got back to the big smoke from Cavan (aye, Im Northside born and partly bread bud and I dont live in the fields like some culchie bogger-Im a townie loike:D) a few times in under an hour, but that was nearly always when in a car with 6 other people being driven to Dublin by some mad lad who needs to get us to a house party there before the drink runs out.
Considering that I have no car and most journeys to Dublin I go on are either by bus or with people who give a sh1te about getting penalty points the minus one hour Dublin trips seemed pretty rare until now. But this makes commuting to Dublin and going on the rip there every Friday night more possible instead of them being once every month or two trips.
So as said main points I need anwsering are how long it will take. As said the Louth lot should have a clue about this. Thanks for the help.


Edit-RTE says 2008 is the projected opening date,which is a bit longer than I wanted but what can you do. Do you think we will be allowed to drive on completed parts of the motorway before the whole thing is completed?

Victor

I t largely takes a line west of the esisting road, apparently close to the old CLonsilla - Navan railway.

It would take 2-3 years to build and would be built in one or two stages (the bigger the project, the more efficient the construction). To be honest it is fairly low on the list of priorities, when compared to the M1, M4, M6, M7 & M8.

http://www.nra.ie/PublicPrivatePartnership/ProjectTracker/N3Clonee-Kells/

http://www.rte.ie/news/2003/0826/motorway.html

Approval granted for Meath motorway

August 26, 2003

(16:09) An Bord Pleanála has given the go-ahead for a 47-kilometre motorway scheme between Clonee and Kells, subject to ten listed modifications.

The motorway has an estimated price tag of €600m and will have two tolls.

The Bord said it was granting approval because it was necessary to provide adequately for the existing and projected traffic growth, and the plan would be in accordance with proper planning and sustainable development.

Meath County Council told a public hearing that the motorway would run for 60 kilometres in total and predicted it would cut the traffic volumes through Dunshaughlin and Navan by as much as three-quarters.

However, the heritage body Dúchas, which has since been abolished by Environment Minister Martin Cullen, expressed archaeological concern because the road passed close to the historic Hill of Tara.

In its decision, An Bord Pleanála called for a survey to be conducted.

dod

Interesting to follow the bloating of costs. Today they estimate the total investment from now to the opening of the road to be €600m. Actual bottom line real money cost, let's not get caught up in PVs or inflation cost discounting.

I'll make the first estimate at +80%.

loyatemu

To be honest it is fairly low on the list of priorities

to say the least!

the N3 goes nowhere major - this road is being built purely for commuters - they're would have been better off putting the money up to reopen the Navan railway line (which would be much cheaper to do)

how can they possibly justify building this road when they don't have the money to finish the Cork motorway?

Raz

I don't know how much it'll cost but I'm sure they'll end up spending more than the quoted 600m.
As for how much time it'll save???
How will the bus eireann manage it? I can't see them paying tolls to use this motorway, and if they do then they're going to hike up their already extortionate prices.
They'll most likely have to pull into the towns as they can't be expected to leave people at a bus stop at the edge of motorway on a raining winter evening.
Also if they do use the motorway it will cut out all the rural stops which removes a main source of transport for those living along rural sections of the bus routes.
Maybe they'll introduce an express service that uses the motorway and not the current route.

Another point for those commuting, once a person reaches Blanchardstown in the morning people will run into massive backlogs of traffic. Just think of the traffic jams you see on the English M1 on the TV from time to time. It's going to be standstill traffic for miles.

Having to commute from Navan for the past year on buses I'm well aware of the current situation on the roads but I don't think that this motorway is going to prove much of an improvement for those on buses and I reckon it'll only take out the backlog of traffic at places like Dunshaughlin and the Fairyhouse cross.

And Gopher, how did you manage to make it from Cavan to Dublin in less than an hour when the fastest I've ever managed it from Navan is 45mins?? Cavan is a good 30mins from Navan if you're speeding, if not more.

I agree with loyatemu, they should have done the railway line.

sligoliner

Edit-RTE says 2008 is the projected opening date,which is a bit longer than I wanted but what can you do.

No worries it'll still only take 5 minutes max off your journey as the government is obsessed with having every car in Ireland drive into the world's largest traffic jam and call it a transport policy and then give the motorway to a praivate company for FREE so they can charge you money to drive on a motorway that your taxes paid for but some private company now owns and nobody really understand way.

The whole idea of a motorway to Navan is sheer meglomanic insanity of the most socially and cultural imature kind. Based on some 50 year Anglo-American policy that is unsuited to cities like Dublin and only makes ghostowns of the communites it serves.

I am not saying that Navan does not need a good road, of course it does - a decent dul carraige would have been enough and would have cost about 1/8 less and there would have be money left over to build a double track rail line to the town thereby really reducing the traffic congestion problem and maybe even a new wing on a hopital somehwere.

But sadly in this bannan republic where if we are not lost in some deranged fantasy of a childhood spent in some British city support a UK sporting entity and having tears in our eyes from Mullingar to Tralee everytime our beloved British sporting corpoation loses a match, we still think that Smokey and the Bandit or the Dukes of Hassard represents the social and economic model we should be following.

We are backward nation of gullible cluess hicks in so many ways. The Haiti of Europe.

DMC

Firstly, this will improve my ability to travel home. I'm from Kells, but I live and work in Dublin 5 days per week. Indeed, it would make me give up Dublin and commute by car.

But, is a motorway needed?

To me, bypasses for Dunshaughlin, Navan and Kells would be fine, as traffic flows decently between the towns themselves; Navan, Kells and Dunshaughlin, like even at peak times, the speed is over 50 mph.

The only bottlenecks are at Clonee until after Fairyhouse cross, and approches to Dunshaughlin, Navan and Kells.

I'm all for the motorway, the road will be even better than now, if its built, great. But would it be served better if we had 3 bypasses instead?

MDR

would have cost about 1/8 less

Given its a private road I wasn't aware it was costing the government anything at all.

sligoliner

all you requirements for you road through Kells can be performed perfectly with a decent dual carraigway with by-passes. The motorway is mega overkill. Secondly, motorway or not the NRA policy remains moving every car in the state into the world's largets traffic jam in central Dublin at rush hour. The Navan motorway not solve this only make it worst.

In any other country in the EU a dual approach would be "good road and good railway". Both would balance the load of commuters by taking people out of their cars and making it easier for traffic to flow. This is common pratice in most other westren countries except Ireland where we are still following a 50 year old anglo American model that even the Brits and the Yanks have given up on for the most part.

Look, I want the railways operated to their full capacity and I want to see sensible routes reopend or built new. But I am in favour of roads as well because that is how you make the country move and creat options and choices. Having either one or the other system is doomed to failure. You need both.

People in Meath and Navan think that this motorway is a godsend, but as soon as they find out they are paying tolls to some stange private company with unusla links to the Government to get a few minutes faster into the same Dublin gridlock they will wise up. €600 million for a little more than we have now? Think about it - it won't change anything and it will cost taxpayers a fortune.

Our transport planners are a shower of ignornat hicks raised on Smokey and the Bandit and other infantile Americna car chase movies and they think making Ireland the Alabama of Europe is thei mission on this earth and who for some reason think that rail transport is a thing of the past. Go to the Fingal website and check out their transport e-mail address it is roads@fingal.ie - it quite shocking how everything in this coutry is car based and this is only model we seem to understand.

We need roads BUT we need decent rail transport as well and everybody will win in the end including the motorist. As I said, Navan could of had a high speed double track railline runing into Connoly and Spencer wth the money saved on building a dual carraigway instead of a motorway. The dual carraigway would have less traffic congestion because the people of Navan would do as people al over the world have already relaised that driving into a city to work is mugs game and taking a reliable train service is much better.

We need to grow up in this country and get out of this "either or" mentality and understand we need good roads and good railways and not mega motorway projects here and there and trails of weeds running from one end of the country to the other (like the Clonsilla-Navan rail route or the WRC). This is the reason why we are in this mess now, because or transport planners are a shower of worthless morons and Irish people are very unsophisticated and easily led with hype and infantile images from the auto industry.

sligoliner

Given its a private road I wasn't aware it was costing the government anything at all.

This is news to me. The story I heard is that it is being built by taxpayers and then given to a private company. This would be like the government using tax payer money to build houses and apartments and then giving them to landlords for free. If the provate company is putting up the capital to bulid this road then I stand corrected. Can anybody conformed this. I thougt the voodoo economic transport policy of this nation was - we pay for it and the likes of Jackway and National Toll Roads make take the money?

MDR

As far as I was aware people like the National Toll Road build infrastructure like the Boyne Bridge, Esat Link, West link et al in partnership with the NDP (who building the infrastructure feeding them). They are built out of the National Toll Roads coffers, who get the right to collect tolls on the infrastructure for 25 years after that the ownership of the infrastucture reverts to the state.

Could be wrong all the same, seems a bit silly that govt. should pay for something and they let someone else grow fat on the tolls from it. Bit like buying a shop and letting your mate bill run it and keep all the profits.

Anyway Fingal are currentily running a public consultation on its future planning strategy, http://www.fingalcoco.ie/devplan/yourfingal/having.htm, you can contribute before Sept 12th, I sent of IrelandOfflines submission today, have your say now or forever hold your piece.

Victor

Originally posted by MDR
As far as I was aware people like the National Toll Road build infrastructure like the Boyne Bridge, Esat Link, West link et al in partnership with the NDP (who building the infrastructure feeding them). They are built out of the National Toll Roads coffers, who get the right to collect tolls on the infrastructure for 25 years after that the ownership of the infrastucture reverts to the state.

It tends to vary from project ot project. I suspect eastlink was full private financed, with a large cut going to the government / Dublin City Council.

West Link 1 was private finance, but with 50-75% support from the EU. As best I know West Link 2 is 100% private finance. A large cut of the tolls goes to the government / South Dublin / Fingal County Councils.

The M1 has been completely government financed. There is a temporary contract in place for the collecting of tolls. A permanent contract will be put in place to collect tolls and maintian the road and do certain upgrades (e.g. safety barriers in central median).

Other projects are based on a varierty of finance schemes.

Victor

http://home.eircom.net/content/irelandcom/breaking/1364507?view=Eircomnet

Anti-road campaigners to protest at Hill of Tara
From:ireland.com
Thursday, 4th September, 2003

Environmental campaigners and residents' groups will hold a gathering at the ancient Hill of Tara in Co Meath this weekend in protest at plans to build a €680 million bypass through the area.

An Bord Pleanála recently gave the go ahead for the N3 by-pass between Clonee and Kells in a move that has angered heritage campaigners and local people.

Mr Vincent Salafia, an American-trained lawyer and a spokesman for the Carrickminders group campaigning against the construction of the final leg of the M50 motorway across the site of Carrickmines Castle in south Dublin, is among those co-ordinating the event.

He told ireland.com he believed the decision needed to be challenged. "I feel it [An Bord Pleanála] is now becoming a rubber stamp for the Government and that it is not fulfilling its duties under the National Monuments Act."

Mr Salafia said there was no "set agenda" for the weekend gathering, but that it was being held with a view to focusing protest and to establishing some sort of umbrella body representing those opposed to the road.

Mr Salafia added the threat to the Hill of Tara site now needed to become "a national issue" rather than just a local issue.

He said the National Roads Authority argued that the new road would be further away from the ancient site than the existing N3. However, the construction would destroy a number of sites of historical interest, which would be merely logged and then "bulldozed over".

Those campaigning against the construction of the by-pass under the current plan say the curtilage of sites such as Tara should also be protected under the National Monuments Act, and they are seeking legal advice on this issue.

Mr Salafia claims the motorway will destroy at least 141 sites associated with Tara. He also says the validity of the Environmental Impact Statement (EIS) conducted for the motorway project should be challenged on the grounds that it does not propertly address the impact on the archaeology of the area.

Mr Salafia said meetings would take place at the Hill of Tara from around 8 p.m. on both Friday and Saturday nights.

A number of bodies, including motoring organisations and some Meath residents, are in favour of the by-pass. The NRA and Meath County Council claims it will significantly reduce traffic congestion in the burgeoning towns of Dunshaughlin and Navan and will cut the travel time to Cavan by as much as 30 minutes.

Those campaigning against the motorway as it stands include the Columban Missionaries based at Dalgan Park just south of Navan on the N3. The Columbans will lose land at their Mission Awareness centre, which is also the site of a wildlife reserve and is widely used as a leisure park by the public.

Qadhafi

an bord panellea (sorry about spell) made a couple of amendements. There has to be a bridge over the existing railway track so it can be re-opened at a later date.

The motorway is expected to be completed in 2006.

I think a dual carriage way would be better, motorway to galway and Cork are important

Victor

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2091-993391,00.html

The Sunday Times - Ireland
February 08, 2004
Ancient sites add €20m to road cost
Stephen O’Brien and Richard Oakley

WORK to identify and preserve ancient monuments in the path of a new motorway running through Co Meath could cost up to €20m.

The cost of archeological work along the 32-mile Clonee-Kells motorway will break an already impressive record set by the southeastern section of the M50. The National Roads Authority (NRA) has already spent €10m protecting ruins there, roughly €6m on the Carrickmines site alone.

The escalating cost of the motorway network means taxpayers will face more tolls than initially expected.

Michael Egan, the NRA’s head of corporate affairs, said the archeological survey and protection costs on the latest stage of the M3 were expected to run as high as €20m.

In 2003, the organisation notched up preservation costs of €1.6m on the Monasterevin bypass (M7), €1.44m on the Dundalk western bypass (M1), €1.65m on the Cashel bypass (M8), €2.4m on the Waterford bypass (M25) and €800,000 on the Sligo inner relief road.

Egan said Ireland needed a grading system to distinguish between monuments of genuine national significance and less important ones such as fulachta fia, the mounds of stones once used for cooking.

“You have to investigate each find down to the last degree at the moment and treat everything as if it were a major find,” he said. “There are thousands of fulachta fia all over the country.”

The Heritage Council supports the idea of a class system for the country’s cultural heritage. There are 120,000 sites listed on the Record of Monuments and Places, according to Egan, but the statutory list makes no distinction between a castle and a fulacht fia.

There are large numbers of fulachta fia throughout the country, and more emerge with every significant archeological study.

The fulacht fia was a mound of stones brought to high temperatures at the core of a large bonfire. The hot stones were then submerged in a pool of water so the heat would bring it to the boil and cook some meat.

Michael Starrett, the chief executive of the Heritage Council of Ireland, said: “The monuments are all listed, they are all very important, but in everyday life we have to make decisions about levels of significance and levels of importance.

“At the moment, it is a one size fits all system and in the big scheme of things that isn’t really the way to do business.”

The NRA funds a team of 21 architects who travel the country using the latest field technology to scout proposed routes for archeological finds.

The site survey team is cutting a trench more than 35 miles long down the centre of the approved route of the Clonee-Kells motorway and digging smaller trenches off the central spine in a herring-bone pattern. These are examined using geophysical detection equipment — a type of metal detector for stones — for signs of archeological significance.

The NRA was last week guaranteed €8 billion to complete the building of motorways over the next five years. It plans to raise a further €2 billion by securing funding on a guarantee of future income from new tolls.

The NRA wants to introduce nine more toll gates on Irish roads to add to the two already in place in Dublin at the Westlink and Eastlink bridges and the one on the M1 to Belfast.

However, it is understood that Seamus Brennan, the transport minister, wants to keep the number of tolls to 10 and is set to reject two of those proposed by the NRA, one on the M50 and one on the Lee tunnel in Cork.

Victor

http://home.eircom.net/content/unison/national/3347606?view=Eircomnet

Thirty major sites 'could be lost in motorway plan'
From:The Irish Independent
Tuesday, 8th June, 2004

THERE are fears that 30 or more sites of archaeological interest around the Hill of Tara could be lost if the proposed M3 motorway from Clonee to Kells in Co Meath is built.

Last month an archaeological team working for the National Roads Authority and Meath County Council unearthed 28 sites between Dunshaughlin and Navan, but full excavations have yet to be completed on the proposed route.

In the event that more are discovered, it's likely that any historical artifacts will be removed and the site destroyed to make way for the motorway. It is unclear what will happen if a site of major importance is discovered.

And a group opposing the construction of the 64km dual carriageway has warned it will take legal action to stop the project and save Ireland's pre-historical heritage.

The Save Tara Skryne Valley group is to go to the High Court seeking an order to stop the €680m motorway on the basis that Environment Minister Martin Cullen, who is charged with protecting national monuments, has not given permission to interfere with sites of historical importance.

Yesterday, Dr Muireann Ni Bhrolchain, a lecturer in the Department of Medieval Irish Studies at NUI, Maynooth, accused the National Roads Authority of ignoring its own archaeological experts, who recommended that the motorway be routed through an alternative location.

The group claim that the proposed route impacts on at least 27 sites of archaeological importance and that this represents the "tip of the iceberg". The NRA claims it will impact on just five along the entire route of the M3.

A spokesman for Mr Cullen said an Environmental Impact Statement had been submitted to An Bord Pleanala, who were "happy with it". The State's archaeologists agreed with its findings, he said, and pre-development digs would be conducted to ensure no artifacts of historical importance would be disturbed.

A "softly softly" approach would be taken in relation to construction, he said, adding that the route proposed would have the "least impact" on the area.

Work is not expected to begin on the motorway until late 2005.

Paul Melia

thejollyrodger

This mosherway to Kells/near cavan is complete tosh. A few by passes would be more appropriate and upgrade the existing road to dual carriageway;)

Build a double track, Continous Welded Rail track to dublin with car parking at all the stops.

If the rail connection can obtain speeds of 90-100mph and maybe extended in the future ie would suffice any commuter

MDR

This is a tough one, I do agree with 'thejollyrodger' sentiments that investing the monso in rail might be better in the long run, this is true for most of the country infact ... although I dis-agree that if we went down the road dualing option, that it would be enough, if you where going to start dualing/bypassing you might as well build a motorway, with so much ribbon development along the N3 I doubt dualing is an option anyway.

I wonder are we the only country in Europe that seem to be constantily tripping over these finds of national importance, I wonder what other countries do, I presume they implement pretty clear policy and prehaps have an independent inspection team etc .... ?

thejollyrodger

well, it looks likes it going take a while for the M-3 to reach construction phase when you consider that in the last 4 years they have only completed 1 out of 4 motorways... the government have plenty of time to figure this one out.

Good point about the ribbon development, maybe the dualcarriage way is a dum idea.

I reckon the best idea is the twin CWT 90/100mph twin rail track and new carriages straight into dublin with plenty of park and ride stops all along the way. This should ideally be extended to Cavan. No stoppin for tolls, no stopping at the M-50, straight into Dublin and on a bus/luas/walk/bike to work.

Im all on for building the mosherways but I do know that after 10 years of completion most(ALL?) of them will be chock a block conjestion. The M-50 in 10 years time will be a nightmare because ALL of the roads in Ireland lead to Dublin, upgrade all those roads to motorways and thats just more increased capacity heading into Dublin.

All this mosherway construction does have an upshot though, we are discovering tons of old stuff that we wouldnt have otherwise. ( All of it seems to be vikings, i thought we were Celts )

MDR

I reckon the best idea is the twin CWT 90/100mph twin rail track and new carriages straight into dublin with plenty of park and ride stops all along the way. This should ideally be extended to Cavan

In fairness this is what most of the country needs ...