White Racialist Uprising in Ireland

pete

Originally posted by Giblet
Actually, I can't believe this slipped my mind. Have any of you ever read hitlers books, guess who else he took a dislike to.

Hmm... pretty much everyone?

Ahhhh these stormfront clowns venture out from under their rock every now and then... they usually get scared off when confronted with boring stuff like logic and science and things.

I got a lot of grief for not banning them from the thumped.com boards, but i think post #73 onwards, from the thread linked to earlier shows exactly why publicly confronting them is better than giving them the opportunity to cry persecution.

In case it's not glaringly obvious, the person who actually started that thread was a stormfront stooge, attempting to "infiltrate" the message board....

Idiots.

Giblet

He saw the Irish as vermin, and if he got past the UK, we were next.

Mick L

Stupidity is stupidity no matter what country you're in (Hey there's something we all have in common!!!)

I say a good signature on a board, can't remember if it was this one or another so apologies for the lack of credit

"Never argue with an idiot, they'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience"

DeVore

Oh yeah they are seriously growing in numbers:

http://www.geocities.com/irishafa/gafu.html

which they admit themselves...

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=80998


When I said "hate" I dont really mean anything as strong as actual *hate*. I just cant work up enough energy for these guys. I meant hate as in "I hate 'dat!". Annoying muppets with eyebrows too close together, they are like those little yappie dogs that wont fnck off. Hate, would be altogether a waste of energy.


Oh yeah, I got something of an answer to my question here:
http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=66078
I think I might crosspost this to GLB Issues just to see some fur fly hahah god im a troll

Still cant find that thread where they threaten to kick my head in. Need to register to search and I cant be arse. Can anyone who's a "member" do a search for DeVore and see what it brings up?

DeV.

pete

Originally posted by DeVore
Still cant find that thread where they threaten to kick my head in. Need to register to search and I cant be arse. Can anyone who's a "member" do a search for DeVore and see what it brings up?

DeV.

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=71376


no, i'm not a member. google.

Lukin Black

homosexuality is wrong. christianity is against it (i am not religious)

I'm sorry but does anybody else find that funny?

Mercury_Tilt

This post has been deleted.

sceptre

Originally posted by DeVore
What if you are 100% Irish but are gay... I mean Hitler didnt much like gay people... I wonder how Stormfront people feel about there being equality for Gay people in Ireland (Irish gay people, obviously....)

The little guy didn't much like Papist Catholics either. I wonder if Stormfront types reckon we should clear the evil popists out of the country too.


woe betide you if you're an irish sallow-skinned gay Catholic who owns a caravan and happens to be circumcised. Or worse still, one of those evil darkies

pickarooney

I really don't get one thing (actually anything). They want to defend the Irish culture above everything, so who is the main target of their aggression:

a) the guys who colonised them, oppressed them, banned their language and games, starved them, ridiculed them and won't give back the rest of their country

or

b) the guys who've opened a couple of vegetable shops and hairdressers on Parnell St.


In simplistic terms, natch.

therecklessone

Originally posted by DeVore

Oh yeah, I got something of an answer to my question here:
http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=66078
I think I might crosspost this to GLB Issues just to see some fur fly hahah god im a troll

Originally posted by Some Sh*t For Brains Knucklehead Nazi
Don't forget the soft-talkers,like Michael Martin or Willie O'Dea. Their voices are unnatural.For every queer there are a thousand soft-talkers,and they're choking the country.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Give that man a round of applause for sheer stupidity...

mneylon

So, what the hell is their exact ideology?
Looking at some of their posts over there and the rather odd combination of symbols etc., that they have chosen to adopt, I was left a little confused.
If you're going to be a racist, minority hating, narrowminded, ignorant and intellectually deficient in most aspects of your behaviour couldn't you at least adopt a homogenous ideology.
These guys seems to hate everybody and worship a mixed bag ranging from Hitler through to Michael Collins.

Sarky

I'm confused. They seem to have an intense dislike of "the reds", whoever the hell these reds may be.

But look at all the posters who call the others Irish Comrades. Isn't that just a teeny bit moronically hypocritical?

Also, there are members with sigs bigger than the screen. My eyes, the goggles they do nothing, and so on and so forth.

And what's the betting that they'll try to pass off my confusion as a victory, saying they confused a stupid dirty red without even trying?

To these people, "irony" means "sort of like iron".

mneylon

Originally posted by dahamsta
I just noticed that Stormfront is hosted by RackShack. I'll be taking my servers out of there at the first available opportunity. I don't want to live in a trailer park.

adam

Unfortunately the EV1 AUP *protects* free speech:
http://www.rackshack.net/english/aboutus/aup.asp

I doubt if that site would have lasted long with a European host!

Dirty Harry

Originally posted by Giblet
He saw the Irish as vermin, and if he got past the UK, we were next.

No, he did not.

Adolf Hitlers writings are here:

http://www.hitler.org/writings/
http://www.hitler.org/

Giblet

Oh they're somewhere on the net are they, nah I think I will stick with my own copies thanks. They have glue holding the pages together!

Giblet

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=83060

It's amazing how he comes up with these definitions...from television

The first one sounds like Dr.Hibbert

sci0x

There bound to find this thread sometime.

Boards Gang wars

Sarky

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=83060

It's amazing how he comes up with these definitions...from television

The first one sounds like Dr.Hibbert

This thread is an interesting one. After a few welcome message that you can't really fault, you get this niceness.

Now you know were not all the idiotic thugs the media makes us out to be, a warm welcome to all, and a warm dia dhuit to all past and present members.

And just two posts further down...

Well,they're all sub-human trash.

And they were doing so well up to that point.

/me fluffles SF boys. Better luck next time.

AngelofFire

Originally posted by pickarooney
I really don't get one thing (actually anything). They want to defend the Irish culture above everything, so who is the main target of their aggression:

a) the guys who colonised them, oppressed them, banned their language and games, starved them, ridiculed them and won't give back the rest of their country

or

b) the guys who've opened a couple of vegetable shops and hairdressers on Parnell St.


In simplistic terms, natch.

This may be at bit off topic but i dont understand why many people think that it was the english who banned the irish language. Yes the english had a major part to play in at after all english was the langauage of commerce and most religious institutions in the country. But in the early 19th century a system known as the soreen came into place. Irish parents and school teachers would actually punish their children if they were caught speaking irish as it was seen as the language of poverty and failure statistics show that the number of irish speakers declined in the early 19 th century. after the irish were given equal rights

And that stuff about them not giving back the rest of our country is crap. the majority of people in northern ireland want to remain part of the united kingdom therefore what gives a bunch of nazis from the south of ireland the right to say that they own it.

sci0x

Yah you're right. And besides I know Irish is what we are and everthing but whats the point in having a language no other county can speak. Why cant we just 4get about the bloody thing.

Sarky

Because it would be one less little excuse for a small bunch of people to dislike another bunch of people.


Did anyone mention yet that the concept of race is just nonsensical?

Turnip

Eoin O'Duffy had a fling with Micheal MacLiammoir apparently. The SF boys won't like that.

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=534100&issue_id=5460

And they won't like this either....

New Study Links Homophobia with Homosexual Arousal

WASHINGTON -- Psychoanalytic theory holds that homophobia -- the fear, anxiety, anger, discomfort and aversion that some ostensibly heterosexual people hold for gay individuals -- is the result of repressed homosexual urges that the person is either unaware of or denies. A study appearing in the August 1996 issue of the Journal of Abnormal Psychology, published by the American Psychological Association (APA), provides new empirical evidence that is consistent with that theory.

Researchers at the University of Georgia conducted an experiment involving 35 homophobic men and 29 nonhomophobic men as measured by the Index of Homophobia scale. All the participants selected for the study described themselves as exclusively heterosexual both in terms of sexual arousal and experience.

Each participant was exposed to sexually explicit erotic stimuli consisting of heterosexual, male homosexual and lesbian videotapes (but not necessarily in that order). Their degree of sexual arousal was measured by penile plethysmography, which precisely measures and records male tumescence.

Men in both groups were aroused by about the same degree by the video depicting heterosexual sexual behavior and by the video showing two women engaged in sexual behavior. The only significant difference in degree of arousal between the two groups occurred when they viewed the video depicting male homosexual sex: 'The homophobic men showed a significant increase in penile circumference to the male homosexual video, but the control [nonhomophobic] men did not.'

http://www.apa.org/releases/homophob.html

Barry Aldwell

Originally posted by Dirty Harry
http://www.hitler.org/

I'm failing to see how a museum about hitler can refrain from political commentary.

On a side note, the boards link on http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=84850 redirects to http://thekingcenter.com/

Good to see you noticed DeVore, though a link to a holocaust site would have been better, or one about Judaeism.

shanemac

Hello again from Down under.

In answer to someone's question I'm Irish by birth and by blood. You're not really an ethnic minority if you're Irish in Australia, as the traditional Aussies are all descended from Irish and British stock anyway.

I think a lot of the posts about Hitler are quite obstructive to real debate. Hitler had a few good ideas, and had some of his priorities right (eg getting the German economy into gear by investing in the infrastructure of the nation; ensuring decent wages and living conditions for ordinary people; protecting the environment, etc), but at the end of the day, Hitler was a manic depressive and a megalomaniac. He went way too far. He had a cruel and unfeeling streak, which led to great suffering during WW2.

But Hitler's views are completely irrelevant. The guy died almost 60 years ago. Forget about Hitler.

Hitler's only real and lasting legacy is in the minds of people today. He serves as a focal point of the left. Any points of difference that left-wing people see, they will automatically pull out the "Hitler" card. (ie Hitler didn't like gays, so you must also hate them; Hitler didn't respect the Irish, so we should accept into our country all the other people Hitler supposedly didn't like...).

In environmental & town planning there are certain tools employed to make sure that a major change to the town is actually going to be beneficial; tools like cost-benefit analysis and principles like "the precautionary principle". I wonder if there has been any cost-benefit analysis of the adoption of multiculturalism in Ireland. If there has been, I wonder what the benefits were found to be, and if the costs were accurately presented (or if the factor of not hurting other people's feelings was too strong for the truth to be told).

If a cost-benefit analysis on multiculturalism was not carried out, I wonder why the precautionary principle has not been employed. Surely it is better not to engage in a potentially destructive activity, until the effects of this activity are known.

I know a lot of people here will dismiss all of this as "right-wing rantings". To those of you with this point of view, I'd like to invite you down to Sydney to speak to some of the old Aussies here in certain parts of Sydney who cannot let their daughters out at night for fear of rape gangs, who have gradually had their entire neighbourhoods bought up by people from certain other cultures, so that they no longer feel at home in their own suburbs; people who have been beaten up or stabbed by ethnic gangs (believe it or not they are inevitable in a multicultural society...it's human nature); and vast numbers of people who's earning power has been halved by a government that decides to pander to business by bringing in hundreds of thousands of Indians & Pakistanis who'll do their job for 1/2 the salary.

shanemac

Okay, to address the post on lies, damn lies and Government statistics, accessed here....Govt stats

Fig 1



Fig2



Fig 3



Fig 4



Fig 5



Table 1. Income Distribution and Gini Coefficient

(nb A generally accepted measure of income dispersion is the gini coefficient. While not being concerned with its technical aspects, the gini coefficient is expressed as a range in which a value of 0 means that everyone has the same income (absolute equality) and a value of 1 means that one member of a group has all the income (absolute inequality)).


Income units

1986 0.410

1990 0.420
1994-95 0.443

1995-96 0.437

1996-97 0.444

1997-98 0.446



Your argument seems to be that living standards have raised over the last 3 decades in Australia, either helped immigration and multiculturalism, or with these factors having no effect on this growth.

This would seem to be backed up by the 4th and 5th graphs there (straight out...how much money the country makes in real terms).

These figures are highly misleading.

What is it people really want out of life. For most it would be the ability to enjoy a stable family environment, having the security of a roof over their heads, feeling safe and being able to go out and make the most of their abilities to contribute to the world and in turn to be rewarded.

A look at graph 1 shows a trend to increased working hours, which in this country has reached epidemic proportions. The average worker here now works something like 60 hours a week. Australia has the 2nd highest number of average hours worked in the OECD (just behind Korea). How can criterion 1 be fulfilled (ability to enjoy family environment) be met when everybody is working all the time?

I don't have the figures at the moment, but the number of working mothers has also increased out of all proportion in the last 30 years too...which has led to serious effects on the development of children.

Why do people work so much these days? Have a look at graph number 3...home affordability. This graph actually paints a rosier picture than the reality for large cities like Sydney and Melbourne, where property values may be 5 times the national average. People cannot afford not to spend their every waking hour working. If they don't they will never afford the "Aussie dream" of the house in the suburbs (most now can't even if they do work all the hours in the day).

But this seems to conflict with the message from GDP per capita...how come people have to work so much but they still can't afford a house? Look at the figures for income distribution (1986-1998). They show a greater concentration of wealth in the hands of a smaller and smaller group of people. This phenomenon I'm convinced is aided by a driving down in wages brought about by immigration from low-wage countries and by multiculturalism (ie divide the nation, destroy solidarity and conquer trade unions).

So are people now happier, after 30 years of multiculturalism? Have a look at the crime stats shown in figure 2. If people are so happy in our multicultural paradise why has the crime rate almost tripled since multiculturalism was brought in?

shanemac

Originally posted by Meh
"Multiculturalism doesn't work" is a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you ignore multiculturalism, treat minorities like second-class citizens, allow the police to harass and deport them unfairly, don't allow them better themselves with education or employment, then surprise there is going to be racial tension in your country.Really? That's not what the Australian government says. (Scroll down to the "Real after tax average earnings" graph)Actually, Ireland, like every other country in the world, has 100% ethnic population. Are you using "ethnic" as a code-word for "non-white"? So what actions should we take?

Why don't we all just get along?

There is no way of successfully fighting human nature. Like all other animals, we are programmed by our genes to behave in a certain way. Unfortunately a strong part of human nature is tribalism. People identify with others like them (into a tribe) and exclude others who are not like them (and identify them as another tribe). There are so many examples of this it seems pointless to mention but anyway (Northern Ireland; Israel/Palestine; Rwanda; Yugoslavia; South Africa; Zimbabwe; Eastern Europe....).

You'll probably say that these conflicts are caused by closed minded people and by ignorance. But really, it's caused by that part of human nature called tribalism, and it will never be conquered (no matter how much liberal miseducation the nation's youth are subjected to).

What multiculturalism does is to introduce dozens of easily-segregated little "tribes" into a nation. All of whom identify primarily with the tribe, rather than with the nation as a whole. This, my friends is a recipe for disaster.

Once an ethnic tribe gets to a certain strength, they do not feel bound by the ethics or traditions of the nation, and so they pretty much feel that anything goes. They're all competing for their place at the top, so your society turns into an unholy rat-race (eg London).

It does not matter if I decide to one day throw off the bonds of human nature, and become an enlightened individual who no longer partakes in primitive tribalism, because, the vast majority of people have no real knowledge or interest in such things, and they'll continue to be controlled by human nature.

Am I using "ethnic" as code for "non-white"?

Yes and no. A certain admixture of similar northern European people would probably not be totally destructive (although I personally would be against it).

However, you keep ignoring the growing population of Africans in Ireland, and before too long they'll be present as 20%, then 30%, then...well look at Paris, London or Sydney.


What should we do?

What is the purpose of the refugee program? To save innocent people from war and persecution. So, once war in their country has ended, they should go home to their own country, surely (as they have been saved from that war and it's now safe).

Could these people not be housed in small segregated communities, given food and shelter to get them through and sent back to their own countries when it is safe to do so?

As far as non-ethnically Irish immigration to Ireland (business migrants, skilled workers. Stop it dead before it eats the whole country up. Unless of course you want to end up out-competed, undercut, unable to afford to live, and basically as the underclass in your own country.

Now go on ... tell me I'm a racist.

BuffyBot

I meant hate as in "I hate 'dat!". Annoying muppets with eyebrows too close together, they are like those little yappie dogs that wont fnck off. Hate, would be altogether a waste of energy.

LOL. Well said!

bloggs

Originally posted by shanemac
Why don't we all just get along?

There is no way of successfully fighting human nature. Like all other animals, we are programmed by our genes to behave in a certain way. Unfortunately a strong part of human nature is tribalism. People identify with others like them (into a tribe) and exclude others who are not like them (and identify them as another tribe). There are so many examples of this it seems pointless to mention but anyway (Northern Ireland; Israel/Palestine; Rwanda; Yugoslavia; South Africa; Zimbabwe; Eastern Europe....).

What multiculturalism does is to introduce dozens of easily-segregated little "tribes" into a nation. All of whom identify primarily with the tribe, rather than with the nation as a whole. This, my friends is a recipe for disaster.

Once an ethnic tribe gets to a certain strength, they do not feel bound by the ethics or traditions of the nation, and so they pretty much feel that anything goes. They're all competing for their place at the top, so your society turns into an unholy rat-race (eg London).

It does not matter if I decide to one day throw off the bonds of human nature, and become an enlightened individual who no longer partakes in primitive tribalism, because, the vast majority of people have no real knowledge or interest in such things, and they'll continue to be controlled by human nature.

Am I using "ethnic" as code for "non-white"?

Yes and no. A certain admixture of similar northern European people would probably not be totally destructive (although I personally would be against it).

What should we do?

What is the purpose of the refugee program? To save innocent people from war and persecution. So, once war in their country has ended, they should go home to their own country, surely (as they have been saved from that war and it's now safe).

Could these people not be housed in small segregated communities, given food and shelter to get them through and sent back to their own countries when it is safe to do so?



Now go on ... tell me I'm a racist.

You do make some very good points. Unfortuntely we have people on both extremes who will rant and rave, and dismiss other's arguments. We need more sensible debate on this subject.

Meh

Originally posted by shanemac
There is no way of successfully fighting human nature. Like all other animals, we are programmed by our genes to behave in a certain way.

Yes there is. We're programmed by our genes to live in caves, eat raw meat, and die at thirty. We don't do any of those things any more.

Unfortunately a strong part of human nature is tribalism. People identify with others like them (into a tribe) and exclude others who are not like them (and identify them as another tribe).

Yes. So?

There are so many examples of this it seems pointless to mention but anyway (Northern Ireland; Israel/Palestine; Rwanda; Yugoslavia; South Africa; Zimbabwe; Eastern Europe....).

And counterexamples. Canada, Switzerland, the USA...

You'll probably say that these conflicts are caused by closed minded people and by ignorance. But really, it's caused by that part of human nature called tribalism, and it will never be conquered

Says who?

However, you keep ignoring the growing population of Africans in Ireland, and before too long they'll be present as 20%, then 30%, then...well look at Paris, London or Sydney.

http://www.vex.net/~nizkor/features/fallacies/slippery-slope.html

Once an ethnic tribe gets to a certain strength, they do not feel bound by the ethics or traditions of the nation, and so they pretty much feel that anything goes. They're all competing for their place at the top, so your society turns into an unholy rat-race (eg London).

It does not matter if I decide to one day throw off the bonds of human nature, and become an enlightened individual who no longer partakes in primitive tribalism, because, the vast majority of people have no real knowledge or interest in such things, and they'll continue to be controlled by human nature.

More speculation, with no evidence or logic whatsoever to back it up. This is a self-fulfilling prophesy -- if you define people by the colour of their skin, then suprise! they'll withdraw into tightly-knit tribal/ethnic groups. If you treat them the same, they will integrate into your society.

As far as non-ethnically Irish immigration to Ireland (business migrants, skilled workers. Stop it dead before it eats the whole country up.

Great, I wonder what our hospitals would look like without African doctors and Filipino nurses to run them, and what our universities would look like without Chinese and Malaysian students paying exorbitant fees to study there. Perhaps you could tell me, you appear to have a wonderful view of Ireland from your desk over in Australia.

Unless of course you want to end up out-competed, undercut, unable to afford to live, and basically as the underclass in your own country.

This statement is so far removed from reality it's laughable. Who forms the underclass in Paris, London and Sydney? Hint: it's not white people.

A look at graph 1 shows a trend to increased working hours, which in this country has reached epidemic proportions. The average worker here now works something like 60 hours a week.

The graph says no such thing. You're just blatantly making stuff up now.

Look at the figures for income distribution (1986-1998). They show a greater concentration of wealth in the hands of a smaller and smaller group of people. This phenomenon I'm convinced is aided by a driving down in wages brought about by immigration from low-wage countries and by multiculturalism (ie divide the nation, destroy solidarity and conquer trade unions).

What evidence do you have for this opinion? How do you know this rise in inequality isn't due to poverty among immigrants?

dahamsta

Personally, I'd like to see all of the people posting on Stormfront (including Martin "The General" Cahill's daughter, WarMaiden) thrown firmly out of the country and replaced by immigrants who'll work hard for a living and not whine about their imaginary "subhuman" oppressors at every turn. I'm pretty sure that even if the immigrants come from war-torn countries with little or no education, they'll still bring the average IQ up a smidge.

By the way, Mercury_Tilt, if you want to see posts that are derogatory and generalistic, you might try browsing through some of your own posts on PI.

adam

dahamsta

Originally posted by blacknight
Unfortunately the EV1 AUP *protects* free speech:

There's nothing wrong with protecting free speech blacknight, my objection is to incitement to hatred and violence. How about these violations:

Threats: Use of the RackShack service to transmit any material (by e-mail, uploading, posting or otherwise) that threatens or encourages bodily harm or destruction of property.

Harassment: Use of the RackShack service to transmit any material (by e-mail, uploading, posting or otherwise) that harasses another.

I started a thread on it on the RackShack forums which turned bizarre in a matter of seconds when they deleted my link to the Stormfront site because, get this, it was "advertising". Then I had some tool come up with a completely hypocritical argument about free speech, and finally an RS rep reckoned it was up to me to complain to the feebs about it, even though I'm not an American citizen. I guess Robert Marsh can't let racism and revisionism get in the way of his profit margins.

I've been thinking about replacing my two machines in RackShack with a single box in Rackspace for some time, I suppose now's my chance.

adam

GuanYin

I have to agree with meh on this, shanemacs post was the worst kind of speculative tinting on a subject you can get.

To go back to an argument of our "genes and our nature" is pathetic. I know a fair bit about genetics and what you are suggesting on that front, is quite frankly, ten thousand or so years and several evolutionary leaps out of date.

Shanemac, you make some interesting points, worth considering, but on the whole your argument is biased to a negative viewing.
With enough negativity you can make a viewing of bosco seem apocolyptic.

How about this for negative viewing. If you removed every non-national from this country tomorrow, the country would collapse. From 3rd level education, public health, corporate trade, right across to the service sector we would be crippled in terms of finance and man-power.

The fact of the matter is, society should be well beyond the need to label people by their skin colour or accent. Racism is a product of ignorance and tainted statistics like the ones that shanemac has put forward. People are led to believe that the immigration problem is what has caused housing price problems, lack of jobs and crime. The fact of the matter is that in the 1980s we had the same problems economically, yet the population of non-nationals was negligable. The crime rate is consistant with any city that grows beyond a certain population without a proper justice system and infrastructure.


I'm rambling now, so all I'll say is I don't think shanemac is a racist, I do think he is severely misguided and biased in his arguments.

Come on people now, smile on your brother, everybody get together, try to love one another.......

bloggs

I think there is a fear by these people that parts of Ireland will end up like South Africa or Detroit, where there is a black majority, and crime is rampant. If you look at middle America you will see whites moving from city centres to the relative safty of the suberbs, and the creation of gettos in run down areas. This in my opinion is one of the downfalls of multiculturalism, but people will say this isn't the fault of the people but of the government and soceity in general These people regard this in it's worst possible terms and will fight it tooth and nail. From reading some of the comments on that site it seems there are a lot of half-wits, but there are a lot of people who seem to know what they are talking about. I think a proper debate on this subject from both sides is only a good thing.

Havelock

I was going to suggets that we should persicute the racists, with-draw their human rights, their dignety, round them up adn herd them off to work as slaves in inhospital condtions and kill them when be become usless. But then realised it would just give them mayters.

Why oh why must we be burdened with such idiots, so ignorant and small minded? Is it some test of our patience? What I "love" hearing from the life long dole reciever drinking my tax money away in a pub is who all the jobs are being taken by "these" people and how they are stealing from the government with all the social welfare they get. Hum anyone else see the problem with thsi arguement. Then of course their are the educated, intelligent and otherwise rational racists who have adopted their parent's or friend's ideas and are unfortunatly eloquent enought to turn fence sitters into hate filled little people. *Shudders*

I agree with Dev that the world is definitly ripping at the seams. Stephen King explains it as slippage, a term I find quite appropriate, soem things are just slipping away from rationality or humanity. Its almost scary.

Gordon

Originally posted by shanemac
Hello again from Down under.

In answer to someone's question I'm Irish by birth and by blood. You're not really an ethnic minority if you're Irish in Australia, as the traditional Aussies are all descended from Irish and British stock anyway.

Traditional Aussies are actually Aborigine, your skin must be the wrong colour. How does it feel being an ethnic outsider in Australia? Does it annoy you that you don't belong in Australia - you belong in Ireland? I guess it must. I urge you to come clean and go back to your own country - you are an ethnic minority.

GuanYin

Originally posted by Gordon
Traditional Aussies are actually Aborigine, your skin must be the wrong colour. How does it feel being an ethnic outsider in Australia? Does it annoy you that you don't belong in Australia - you belong in Ireland? I guess it must. I urge you to come clean and go back to your own country - you are an ethnic minority.

Very Good point.

Actually, I've always maintained that the Irish are the last race of people who can give out about refugees and etnic minorities.

The Irish have been an ethnic minority in every major country (and some minor ones) in the world.

Of course, when we see the "no Irish" signs from America at the turn of the century we shake our heads in anger and dis-belief.
:rolleyes:

Meh

Originally posted by dahamsta
Personally, I'd like to see all of the people posting on Stormfront (including Martin "The General" Cahill's daughter, WarMaiden) thrown firmly out of the country

Actually, if you look at the "Location" under their usernames, the majority of posters on Stormfront "Ireland" don't even live in this country

shanemac

Originally posted by Meh
Yes there is. We're programmed by our genes to live in caves, eat raw meat, and die at thirty. We don't do any of those things any more.Yes. So?And counterexamples. Canada, Switzerland, the USA... Says who?http://www.vex.net/~nizkor/features/fallacies/slippery-slope.htmlMore speculation, with no evidence or logic whatsoever to back it up. This is a self-fulfilling prophesy -- if you define people by the colour of their skin, then suprise! they'll withdraw into tightly-knit tribal/ethnic groups. If you treat them the same, they will integrate into your society.Great, I wonder what our hospitals would look like without African doctors and Filipino nurses to run them, and what our universities would look like without Chinese and Malaysian students paying exorbitant fees to study there. Perhaps you could tell me, you appear to have a wonderful view of Ireland from your desk over in Australia.This statement is so far removed from reality it's laughable. Who forms the underclass in Paris, London and Sydney? Hint: it's not white people.The graph says no such thing. You're just blatantly making stuff up now.What evidence do you have for this opinion? How do you know this rise in inequality isn't due to poverty among immigrants?

Back from college.....

Meh, a

Human nature

You have a fundamental misunderstanding of human nature. Yes our circumstances have changed, and yes our behaviour has been modified to reflect changes in our circumstances. However, at the basic level, we have inherited a large degree of instinctive behaviour from our ancestors. Our civilisation is merely a facade. I suggest you read on the subject of evolutionary psychology (Richard Dawkins or Desmond Morris).

There are so many remnants of instinctive human behaviour that you can observe even in the largest, most modern city. The urge to establish personal space, the urge to rise to the top of the "food chain", the instinct to display personal status (in whatever subtle way). The instinct of tribalism is just another of these inherited traits. Have a look at the fanaticism at a football match (eg Ireland vs England) some day. It's basic insticntive tribalism that makes the Irish fans cheer for their team regardless of the quality of play, and likewise for the English.

Canada, Switzerland, USA. Canada has had multiculturalism for about the same length of time as Australia (about 30 years). Up until now things have gone ok there....but it's starting to unravel....I'll have to get some sources on this....watch this space.

Switzerland...don't know much about Switzerland. I do know it's basically an amalgamation of French, Germans and Italians, who have lived in separate regions, with relative stability for centuries. Apart from language I'm not sure if the different Swiss communities have any points of difference.

The USA....you've got to be kidding. Have you been there? It's just like a giant never-ending race war. There has been a veneer of "tolerance" put over everything for the past 20 years, basically achieved by actively discriminating against white males in America & promoting everything black or Mexican, and stifling free speech by means of "political correctness". This is not a sustainable situation.

Benefits of immigrant workers

African doctors and Filipino nurses....hmmm. I wonder how the sovereign state of the republic of Ireland got through 7 decades from 1922-1992 without them. Maybe the Irish people were capable of staffing their own health service. Has this capability disappeared.

Chinese & Malaysian students paying exhorbitant fees

This is also the case in Australia. Do you know the net effect this has had? The universities have lowered their standards, and basically turn a blind eye to plagiarism by Asian students, because education here is a business. Universities are not institutions of education anymore, they are there to make money. (there has just been exposed here in Australia, where Asian students were found to have downloaded whole essays off the internet, and they were not punished...the honest academic who exposed the racket was fired and silenced).

90% of academics nowadays don't want fair and open debate. They are terrified of people finding out they've been lied to by the left for 30 years, so they stifle all debate with that ubiquitous word "Nazi".


Underclass

Large scale upper middle-class Asian immigration is a relatively recent phenomenon in Australia. Before this the Asians that came here were from the poorest classes of Vietnam, Philippines, etc. But now, the vast majority of Asian migrants that come here are wealthy individuals who come out either for their "skills" (eg computer professionals, doctors, etc) or because they have a lot of money (the logic being that they'll set up businesses that will employ Australians).

What is the long-term effect of this? Basically Asians own probably the majority of businesses in this country now. Do they employ Australians? Not on your nellie. They lobby the government to bring over more of their country men so they can pay them half the award wage....which the government of course complies with. There are large areas of affluent suburbs in Sydney that are Chinese owned. All the while, native Sydney people are getting pushed out to the margins of the city....reflecting the white flight seen in that other multicultural paradise, America.

There is a significant underclass of white Australians in this country. They have no business connections, they have no access to higher education, they have no skills and no prospects. These are the people who have borne the brunt of the multicultural experiment that the "tolerant" middle class was so eager to embark upon 30 years ago.

the graphs

Have you looked at fig 1? Look at the green line that shows the average number of hours worked by males between 1975 to 1996. I can tell you that since '96 it has accelerated way off that chart.

I don't believe the rise in inequality is only due to immigration/multiculturalism. But I do believe it is a factor. As I said before, you get a fully qualified engineer or accountant from India, where his salary might be $10,000 a year, and you put him in a job in Australia and give him a salary of $40,000 a year. He will be very happy about this, despite the fact that the going rate for qualified engineers or accountants in Australia might be $80,000. This factor has enabled big business to slash relative living standards in this country in a big way.

There are also other factors like globalism, international trade, the mobilisation of the female workforce and technology to take into account. But each of these factors must be dealt with separately.

Typedef

Large scale upper middle-class Asian immigration is a relatively recent phenomenon in Australia. Before this the Asians that came here were from the poorest classes of Vietnam, Philippines, etc. But now, the vast majority of Asian migrants that come here are wealthy individuals who come out either for their "skills" (eg computer professionals, doctors, etc) or because they have a lot of money (the logic being that they'll set up businesses that will employ Australians).

What is the long-term effect of this? Basically Asians own probably the majority of businesses in this country now. Do they employ Australians? Not on your nellie. They lobby the government to bring over more of their country men so they can pay them half the award wage.

That's called economics.

This factor has enabled big business to slash relative living standards in this country in a big way.

Again, it's not a vast conspiracy to deprive you, it's simply a function of economics and to be honest, I don't see you complaining about how big business is mistreating Third World individuals in sweatshops, to produce cheaper produce, for you.

If this is such a diminution of your rights, then why aren't you calling for debt relief for Third World nations or an end to Sweat shops in Third World countries for ostensibly White Western Corporations?

Is it simply a case of what effects you is all that matters and after that, it's everybody else's problem?
If so, why should big business give a crap about importing cheap labour, since the consequences of that act, only effect you?

You want to argue unfair economics, then I'd start with Debt relief, a removal of Trade barriers and end to Global Corporations and the exploitation of foreign cheap Labour markets and so on.
Why is it the case that Big Business Labour practices only matter, when such practices are on what you precieve to be 'your' doorstep and why should anybody care about those problems when you are prepaired to derive advantage from cheap goods from exploited foreign markets?

Quid pro quo Agent Starling.
Quid pro quo.

shanemac

Originally posted by Gordon
Traditional Aussies are actually Aborigine, your skin must be the wrong colour. How does it feel being an ethnic outsider in Australia? Does it annoy you that you don't belong in Australia - you belong in Ireland? I guess it must. I urge you to come clean and go back to your own country - you are an ethnic minority.

By accident of history, there is a population of white people who live in Australia who I refer to as "Aussies". Their ancestors took the land from a bunch of people who were here before them, these were the ancestors of the modern-day aborigines.

None of the original people involved in this take over are still alive today. The whole struggle belongs in the annals of history. Every country has been colonised at one time or another (even the Irish are not actually descended from animals who evolved in Ireland if you go back far enough).

But the fact is that by accidents of history, there are certain nations that now live in certain locations in the globe. Does the fact that their ancestors have not lived there since the dawn of time mean that they should give their territory up to every other nation that wants in? I don't believe so. In fact that's called national suicide & as far as I remember the Irish fought an 800 year war to avoid this.

Am I an ethnic minority in Australia because I wasn't born here?

Well, I've never met an Australian that would consider me to be so. I don't consider myself to be so...the real Aussies are of the same ancestral stock as I am, so in essence we are the same nation.

However, as this country is rapidly being taken over by millions of non-Irish/British/Aussies, I am starting to feel less and less a part of this country. I am seriously considering returning to Ireland, but, then it seems exactly the same thing is happening over there.

pete

hi shanemac

could you clarify something for me?

Are you an economic racist, or do you just not like darkies?

thanks in advance,
pete

Meh

Originally posted by shanemac
The instinct of tribalism is just another of these inherited traits. Have a look at the fanaticism at a football match (eg Ireland vs England) some day. It's basic insticntive tribalism that makes the Irish fans cheer for their team regardless of the quality of play, and likewise for the English.

So you're saying that we should kick all the people of English descent out of Ireland, then?

African doctors and Filipino nurses....hmmm. I wonder how the sovereign state of the republic of Ireland got through 7 decades from 1922-1992 without them. Maybe the Irish people were capable of staffing their own health service.

They weren't. Up until the 1990s, Ireland had the second-worst public health service in the developed world. You probably missed all the health cuts during the 1980s, what with you living in Australia and all that. Only now are things starting to improve.

This is also the case in Australia. Do you know the net effect this has had? The universities have lowered their standards, and basically turn a blind eye to plagiarism by Asian students, because education here is a business.

So do you have any link to back up these of systematic academic fraud by Asian students in Australian universities?

Basically Asians own probably the majority of businesses in this country now.

And again, you don't present anything to back this up.

Have you looked at fig 1? Look at the green line that shows the average number of hours worked by males between 1975 to 1996. I can tell you that since '96 it has accelerated way off that chart.

Well, I'd love to take your word for it, but I'm not going to.

I don't believe the rise in inequality is only due to immigration/multiculturalism. But I do believe it is a factor. As I said before, you get a fully qualified engineer or accountant from India, where his salary might be $10,000 a year, and you put him in a job in Australia and give him a salary of $40,000 a year. He will be very happy about this, despite the fact that the going rate for qualified engineers or accountants in Australia might be $80,000. This factor has enabled big business to slash relative living standards in this country in a big way.

Bad for overpaid engineers and accountants, good for the living standards of the rest of the country. Basic economics.

Mick L

None of the original people involved in this take over are still alive today. The whole struggle belongs in the annals of history.

Well that's convenient, I mean if it happened a long time ago then it's all ok.

Just out of curiosity, how long does a person or group of people need to live in a country before they're natives??

there are certain nations that now live in certain locations in the globe.

No, Shanemac, people live in certain locations in the globe.

Tell me this, if Americans started to emmigrate to Australia or Ireland would you have a problem with them? If half were white and half were black would you have a problem with just one half?

Should every country stay within their own borders and no one leave or emigrate for fear of upsetting the locals? Irish people have been emigrating for years looking for better deals in life. Now that our own country is doing well should we not expect people to want to live here too?

GuanYin

Originally posted by shanemac

Human nature
You have a fundamental misunderstanding of human nature. Yes our circumstances have changed, and yes our behaviour has been modified to reflect changes in our circumstances. However, at the basic level, we have inherited a large degree of instinctive behaviour from our ancestors. Our civilisation is merely a facade. I suggest you read on the subject of evolutionary psychology (Richard Dawkins or Desmond Morris).
[/B]

You are right, we have inherited instintive nature, Dawkins theory (and it is just a theory is an extremely flawed one. It tends to explain away such things as our tendancies towards racism and the destruction of our environment. It explains away the nastier side of human nature but ignores how or why we are often compelled to act againts these "instints". But thats the flaw. Its a weighted theory and as such regarded as a nice story by most evolutionary biologists and nothing more. By Dawkins theory we can't explain vegitarians or people who jump into a river to save a stranger. The fact is, humans, unlike everything else, have a higher reasoning and believing that tribalism and such are an excuse for such actions shows ignorance and mis-understanding of the science at hand and a cheap way out of being biggoted.

Originally posted by shanemac
Benefits of immigrant workers
African doctors and Filipino nurses....hmmm. I wonder how the sovereign state of the republic of Ireland got through 7 decades from 1922-1992 without them. Maybe the Irish people were capable of staffing their own health service. Has this capability disappeared.

No, we had a high proportion of foreign doctors isince the 70's, usually of indian origin. Medical technology prior to this is in no way comparable to present day so in answer to your question, yes capability has disappeared. We simply do not have the numbers of qualified people to man the current health service without foreign workers.

Originally posted by shanemac
Chinese & Malaysian students paying exhorbitant fees
This is also the case in Australia. Do you know the net effect this has had? The universities have lowered their standards, and basically turn a blind eye to plagiarism by Asian students, because education here is a business. Universities are not institutions of education anymore, they are there to make money. (there has just been exposed here in Australia, where Asian students were found to have downloaded whole essays off the internet, and they were not punished...the honest academic who exposed the racket was fired and silenced).

90% of academics nowadays don't want fair and open debate. They are terrified of people finding out they've been lied to by the left for 30 years, so they stifle all debate with that ubiquitous word "Nazi".

So only asian students cheat? Only asian students plagerise? Gimme a break. This whole notion is the worst kind of propaganda. What facts and figures do you have that show it was asian students bringing the standards down? And you infer one case of cheating means all asian students cheat? I've seen plenty of irish students plagerise and cheat, christ, we better review our education system. Perhaps the standards are lowered because asian students are working harder and the aussies can't keep up? Heresaya nd conjecture, its not even worth arguing.

GuanYin

Originally posted by shanemac
Am I an ethnic minority in Australia because I wasn't born here?

Well, I've never met an Australian that would consider me to be so. I don't consider myself to be so...the real Aussies are of the same ancestral stock as I am, so in essence we are the same nation.

Well go back even further into the ancestral stock and we all came from the same group of about 500 proto-homosapiens (according to current wisdom) so by your own arguements and your proclaimations of love for evolutionary biology we are in essence all from the same ancestral stock

pete

hi shanemac,

just another quick question - what's your username on Stormfront?

Or is it just a happy coincidence that an irish person living in australia just happened to be passing through Boards when this thread started and nothing at all to do with the link here from Stormfront?

thanks in advance,
pete

shanemac

Originally posted by Typedef
That's called economics.



Again, it's not a vast conspiracy to deprive you, it's simply a function of economics and to be honest, I don't see you complaining about how big business is mistreating Third World individuals in sweatshops, to produce cheaper produce, for you.

If this is such a diminution of your rights, then why aren't you calling for debt relief for Third World nations or an end to Sweat shops in Third World countries for ostensibly White Western Corporations?

Is it simply a case of what effects you is all that matters and after that, it's everybody else's problem?
If so, why should big business give a crap about importing cheap labour, since the consequences of that act, only effect you?

Quid pro quo Agent Starling.
Quid pro quo.

I'm not suggesting there is a conspiracy at work. Businessmen act solely for their own interest...ie how can they maximise profits? The individual businessman sees an opportunity to undercut high wage levels in this country and undermine unions by importing millions of people from the 3rd world. Acting independently and without any kind of collusion, this still amounts to a huge degree of business influence with the same result....pressure on the government to increase immigration, and thus drive down wages.

About 3rd world sweat shops

Have you ever heard of the maxim "charity begins at home"?

Sweat shops exist in those countries because their people are too greedy and corrupt to unite with their fellow workers to improve wages. Bottom line....it is up to them to improve their own work standards....my problem is what happens in my nation, other nations should be able to look after themselves.

Quid pro quo...wtf?

Gordon

Originally posted by shanemac
Am I an ethnic minority in Australia because I wasn't born here?

Yes you are. We all are. Everyone is the same. We are all one being. We are all ethnic minorities and political mongrels, sense of humour fascists and size of feet uniquenesses. We are all a minority in some respect, isn't it nice to be small but all encompassing at the same time?

Anyway, where does history start and present stop? When it gets written down? When the sun seems to have rotated back to where it was? When you turn your blind blink of an eye? Your post is in the past shanemac - therefore it bears no relevance to me or anyone here. etc etc.

Oh, and on that note - where does this ethnic marker point exist in Australia? The Irish number 10%* of the population there - so apparently you think they are enough to be "the same nation" 5% are made up by Italian, German, Chinese, Scottish. Are these people also considered "Aussies" by wont of nation?

*

shanemac

Originally posted by pete
hi shanemac

could you clarify something for me?

Are you an economic racist, or do you just not like darkies?

thanks in advance,
pete

No problem, I'll get down to answering that right after you clarify this....are you capable of refuting any of my arguments by reasoning and logic, without engaging in a peronal attack?

GuanYin

Originally posted by shanemac
are you capable of refuting any of my arguments by reasoning and logic, without engaging in a peronal attack?

are you capable of refuting mine?