Win2k workstations don't like Linux DNS server?

Inspector Gadget

Hi everyone...

I have a problem that appears to be very weird, but hopefully someone can help me.

I'm taking care of a small office network, about a dozen machines, a mix of Win2k and Linux (RH8/9), some dual-boot.

Anyway, of these systems, there are two Win2k Server servers, and one RH9 server. The network is set up using exclusively static IP addressing, and the Linux server has been given the job of handling DNS for the domain.

Now, here's the weird bit:

The linux boxes (including three dual-booters we've got) have absolutely no problem with the DNS system, it all works flawlessly.

On the other hand, if I try to resolve a local address, say in an ftp client or something like that, or simply by typing "nslookup <client>" - it doesn't work. On the other hand. If I start nslookup first, and then specify the client, it finds it no problem... weird or what?

I suspect it's something to do with NetBIOS/NetBeui over TCP thing that Windows does - that it's trying to resolve the IPs of local machines using this technique. Possibly, there's some sort of competition going on for PDC and BDC between the servers that's also causing havoc...

(This may in turn stem from a further problem - the [expletive] linux server won't appear in the Network neighbourhood no matter how I try, but I can connect to shares manually if I know their location... I'm doing something stupid, but I don't know what. It's Samba 2.2.7-8.9.0 (seemingly otherwise known as 2.2.7a-security-rollup-fix as far as Redhat are concerned)).

Not to put too fine a point on it, HELP! :rolleyes:
Gadget
(Feeling a bit stupid right about now)

cgarvey

Are you running windows machine in a domain? If so, is the samba/linux added to the domain with machine accounte, etc?

On windows does "nslookup client.domain.tld." work? If so it might be just that you don't have "Connection-specific DNS Suffix" set up properly ("ipconfig /all" to see what its set to).

.cg

Inspector Gadget

Hmm... not using domains, just a single workgroup.

Does "nslookup client.domain.tld" work? Well, yes and no.

Open a command prompt, do exactly that, and it doesn't.

On the other hand, start nslookup with no parameters, look up the machine using it's full name (client.domain.tld), and that works; quit nslookup and try nslookup client.domain.tld, and all of a sudden it works again; at least for a while. I don't know when it decides to stop working, or whether it's some cache that gets cleared, but later and/or using a different app, it stops working again.

Gah!
Gadget

cgarvey

/me backs off as its getting to weird

Does your 'workgroup' setting have the right workgroup in your [global] seciton in smb.conf?

If not using domain why the PDC/BDC?

Are the workstations configured to use WINS servers? If so are they needed? It sounds like you have name resolution going on before DNS kicks in (like you say).

.cg

Rew

Do what i do and set up DHCP, then hand out static addresses based on mAC addresses and as part of that give ure domain name.

Ill bet it starts working fine after that....

Inspector Gadget

Hmm...

Firstly, WINS is disabled on all the Windows boxes. Don't really know what it is, not sure if it's a good thing or a bad thing, though I reckoned DNS should be enough (rightly or wrongly).

With regard to DHCP, I'm loath to use dynamically allocated addresses to the servers, whatever about the clients...

Also, TBH, I don't know a whole pile about SMB, I just know that samba used to report domain controller elections in its logs...?

With regards to smb.conf, the workgroup is right. However, the next line reads:

interfaces = 192.168.0.200/8 127.0.0.1/24

I think this should allow for machines in the 192.168.0.* and 127.*.*.* range (why, apart from localhost?) to access the machine - can someone who knows the relevant netmask type stuff confirm this? Has this screwed things up?

Thanks for the help so far...
Gadget

crowbar

the netmasks aren't quite right: 127.0.0.1/8 refers to 127.*.*.* and 192.168.0.200/24 means 192.168.0.* but that's not the problem as 192.168.0.200/8 means 192.*.*.* so your machines are all still okay. can you can connect to shares on your samba box manually?

browser elections are handled in samba by nmbd, and it has it's own log. look for log.nmbd or nmbd.log in /var/log/samba. if you have windows dcs on your lan it's generally recommended that you let them be the master browser and domain master browser.

if you don't have wins then local names on your windows boxes are resolved by broadcast. if the name doesn't exist, it will take a little time for it to time out. one possible reason that nslookup is acting so funny could be that it tries broadcast on the lan first if you specify the client on the command line, but not when you run it without specifying a client.

imho it'll probably make things a lot simpler and faster in the long run if you enable wins, especially since you have a pdc and a bdc.

Inspector Gadget

Hmm...

Okay, need to change the interfaces= line to read something like:

interfaces=192.168.0.200/8 127.0.0.1

Now, as regards WINS, is that handled by the Server service under Win2K server or is there another service I need to set up?

Also, should I just let the two windows server duke it out amongst themselves for the roles of primary and backup domain controllers?

Cheers,
Gadget

crowbar

don't have access to w2k server right now but on nt4 it's a service that you install through the network control panel.

then on samba, you set wins support = no and wins server = your wins server and restart. your samba server then registers with the wins server on startup and it should appear in the network neighbourhood (as long as your clients also have the wins server configured)

dunno about pdc/bdc design, i'm not a server admin ... someone in the windows forum might be able to help you with that one.

oscarBravo

Originally posted by Inspector Gadget
Also, should I just let the two windows server duke it out amongst themselves for the roles of primary and backup domain controllers?

It's a workgroup: it doesn't have domain controllers. What they're arguing over is being the master browser - let them peg away, that's something they're designed to work out among themselves. Make sure you only have one WINS server: if one of the Windows servers is doing WINS, make sure Samba is not, as per crowbar.

Inspector Gadget

Okay, I'm a little confounded and confused here.

Firstly, if I follow what's going on here, WINS is essentially bypassing the DNS server entirely, using its own records of SMB broadcasts from other systems to determine the IP addresses of the various systems on the local network. Is that the case?

Also, if I'm reading the docs correctly
(I'm not as green with these computery yokes as this thread might suggest, honest!) Samba can act as a WINS server, so why are you recommending using one of the Windows servers for this job?

Thanks again for the replies thus far...
Gadget

spongebob

should be only one Master Browser in a Workgroup as well.

at times like these I consider adding Netbeui to the W2K boxes.

oscarBravo

Originally posted by Muck
should be only one Master Browser in a Workgroup as well.

True, but that's what elections are for.

at times like these I consider adding Netbeui to the W2K boxes.

No need: netbios works over TCP/IP.

Originally posted by Inspector Gadget
Samba can act as a WINS server, so why are you recommending using one of the Windows servers for this job?

I'm certainly not; I'm just advising you to make sure you're not inadvertently using both.

spongebob

I recall abug (or a feature) of w2k as distinct from nt4 from a few years back

If the LAN setup had an intranet and internet dns under NT4 such as

192.168.1.2 (primary)
159.124.237.6 (secondary)

under nt4 ,an address that could not be found on the primary would be queried off the secondary instead.

w2k OTOH would start to ignore the primary after a while and query the secondary only. a reboot was needed or an ipconfig /release and then a /renew

I think a service pack fixed it

M

crowbar

Originally posted by Inspector Gadget
... Samba can act as a WINS server, so why are you recommending using one of the Windows servers for this job?

i don't think i said that either. for me it's a (possibly erroneous) belief that it's more compatible: you may as well use the original (windows) if you have it rather than the emulation (samba).

cgarvey

Yeah, and that's only if you need WINS. I've never used it in small/medium samba based networks.

.cg

Rew

Originally posted by Inspector Gadget
Hmm...
With regard to DHCP, I'm loath to use dynamically allocated addresses to the servers, whatever about the clients...

There is no reason why you cannt/shouldn't use DHCP for servers. U can can even have a fail over DHCP setup in case your worried about losing the primary server.

DHCP and save so much hassle in any network setup...

cgarvey

True, especially as you can assign static IPs to the servers in the DHCP config..

host server1 {
fixed-address 192.168.1.2;
hardware ethernet 00:0X:XX:XX:XX:XX }

.cg

Rew

Originally posted by cgarvey
True, especially as you can assign static IPs to the servers in the DHCP config..

host server1 {
fixed-address 192.168.1.2;
hardware ethernet 00:0X:XX:XX:XX:XX }

.cg

Exactly

Its also a handy place to keep info on all your PC's

eg

# User: J Blogs
# RAM: 512
#Disk: 120
host server1 {
fixed-address 192.168.1.2;
hardware ethernet 00:0X:XX:XX:XX:XX }

That file can then be parsed to generate a report of your network

cgarvey

Steady on now, you're getting way too organised there now

Capt'n Midnight

hosts and lmhosts files

use these to check the role of each pc.
nbtstat -c
nbtstat -a ip address

can't remember off hand the ID code for a browse master..
But if you had a windows 95 pc there I say it was forcing elections.

If win 2K can live without wins then try disable off the network.

You could setup DNS on one of the Windows Servers as a secondary to the Linux ones to see if that works

try adding the ip of the DNS server to the list of WINS servers handed out to the Workstations, (Knudge to get windows to look at that machine)

Inspector Gadget

Thanks for the replies, everyone...

Now, let's see. One question I can answer immediately is that there are no Win9x/ME boxes on this network. Exclusively Win2k or some flavour of Linux (RH8/9/Smoothwall[?]) except for one "visiting" XP Pro laptop.

I've set up WINS on the two Win2K servers; they can duke it out amongst themselves as to who's PDC and who's BDC. The "winning" server is returning a code <20>, if that answers your other question Capt'n Midnight?

I've done a lap of the office and specified the two servers in question, and it seems to work... but I still don't get why you can't simply tell 2000 "your DNS server is at www.xxx.yyy.zzz, ask it if you need to resolve an IP".

It works, but I'm annoyed that I have to stick another protocol on side-by-side with DNS to get the effect that DNS should provide... am I wrong to expect that?

Gadget

ssh

It's wierd anyway...

What happens when (in nslookup), you do server <ip-of-dns-server>

and then try doing lookups?

crowbar

Originally posted by Inspector Gadget
I'm annoyed that I have to stick another protocol on side-by-side with DNS to get the effect that DNS should provide... am I wrong to expect that?

yeah, pretty annoying all right. i believe with w2k active directory and a w2k native domain everything uses dns. however afaik samba support of active directory is not yet there and you'd probably have to move your dns to the w2k servers cause it needs new record types that weren't supported in linux bind until recently (if at all.)