Stupid drivers

therecklessone

I don't consider motorway speeds, or anything near them, to be slow moving, but with the wording in the Rules Of The Road handbook, and a good solicitor, I imagine you could argue your way out of court.

Spunog UIE

lads i was wondering why some of you are getting so stuck up about this and not thinking logically, I'm begining to think some of you are refering to regular roads as opposed to two lane systems going in the one direction.

You choose the lane, prefereably the inside or left lane if your not over taking. If you come upbehind someone and their driving slower than you AND the speed limit in the right lane , move into the left and proceed obeying the speed limit.

Don't get in a hissy fit and quote the rule book, use your heads.

I think the only way that you would get 'done' for undertaking as you call it, would be if you do break the speed limit, and you'll get caught for that but probally after that they would also say that you were not only speeding but 'undertaking' you bold bold boy!

Silent Bob

Originally posted by therecklessone
I don't consider motorway speeds, or anything near them, to be slow moving, but with the wording in the Rules Of The Road handbook, and a good solicitor, I imagine you could argue your way out of court.

You would be hard pressed to find a judge who would consider anything over 20mph "slow moving".

If anything trying to take that line in a court would probably irritate the judge and have him increase the penalties as a result of wasting the courts time.

Another thing is it would be hard to interpret "vehicles" as a single car. Use of the plural indicates that there are many travelling at that speed, i.e. queued traffic.

therecklessone

Depends on how good your solicitor is, eh?;)

sceptre

Originally posted by shabbyroad
Did tests in both countries passed first time both times and in Ireland I was asked specifically about the situation where you've got two lanes of traffic and was it ok to move into the left lane and over/undertake. My answer was yes if the traffic in the right hand lane is not moving.... and the examiner waited and suggested I finish the sentence.....if the traffic in the right hand lane is moving slowly or not moving at all. Correct.

Correct indeed.

The extension you added below is incorrect though. You weren't asked about that in your driving test, were you?

Obviously the guy in the right hand lane would be wrong for being here but he's not putting anyone's life in danger by being there - it's the guy overtaking on the left that has done that.

BrianD3

Thanks Silent Bob for clearing that up.

A lot of people in this thread seem to have gotten the idea that it's OK to undertake as long as you don't break the speed limit. Where did ye get this notion from? The problem in this country is that there's so much misinformation and urban legends doing the rounds. This misinformation comes from various sources, mainly crap driving instructors, know-alls such as Kell's brother, people like Gideon who have no respect for the rules etc.

It's similar to people who fail their driving test due to crap driving and tell all their friends that they failed cause the "examiner was a b*llox" or some other lame excuse. The result is a lot of misinformation and stupid myths regarding the driving test.

BrianD3

ando

my understanding of it is that you can undertake but you must remain under the speed limit

Silent Bob

Originally posted by ando
my understanding of it is that you can undertake but you must remain under the speed limit

Did you read the rest of the thread

Your understanding is wrong

Spunog UIE

if there is such a rule for going past someone on the inside lane after being in the right hand lane, your damn right i'd have no respect for it, cos its complete bull****. And there is no question of safety here its the very same as moving to the right, my god you'll have to move back sometime to the left lane, can't be hogging that lane intented for passing out now can you.

So its okay to go past someone in the left hand lane as long as you haven't moved there from the right? Honestly is that what your trying to say????

Spunog UIE

as for the keeping with in the speed limit, all your doing is progressing, shouldn't matter if that happens to be in the left lane and the person in the right is doing 55.

On one hand your saying people should move back into the left hand lane after passing out to let people travel on which is all well and good, you don't have to be making a left hand turn or turning off or anything you are moving between the lanes as you should. So say you pass out a car in the right hand lane, move on and move back into the left so anyone else travelling faster than you can go past using the "correct" lane. Then as you travel along you find that another car in the right hand lane is travelling slower than you, obivously you shouldn't slow down for that, that your not passing them out, as you were already in the lane for X amount of time.

So is it a question of timing, if you progress back into the left lane with in set distance from the car infront or set time. Are you refering to people who ride up someones ass then swing left then right then left and so on.

If you gain on someone thats driving slower than you while you were using the right lane to pass out someone, would you not be just returning to lane from which you came and allowing other possible people to go past you. And if the left lane happens to move faster or has a clear line ahead, didn't that just happen to be.

I honestly don't see any sense in NOT using the left lane if you move into it in good time with good awareness, and progression that your not cutting infront of any on coming traffic that would have to slow as a result of you. Like I said already this will have to be done at some stage anyway, your just picking a lane that suits you. Staying in the right lane while you travel past traffic thats slower than you is fine too, moving over for any traffic coming from behind you.

So why am I wrong? and NOT RESPECTING THE RULES. Do you not question anything or think for yourself?

Besides all that I don't think there is such a rule that describes what your saying. Think the one that was posted is taken out of context, and in the unlikey event of it being 100% I am stating that I THINK its bull****, and that using the now legendary left lane when needed or available is perfectly safe.

Spunog UIE

*GASP & SIGH* convince me otherwise.

BrianD3

I know what you're saying, however rules are rules and are there to protect the idiots. Let's say you're driving along in the left lane at 70 mph in a 70. And you come across some muppet cruising in the right hand lane doing 55 mph. By maintaining your speed and sticking to your lane, you'll be undertaking him. Doesn't matter how long you were in the left hand lane for. So what you must do is either slow down and match his speed, or else move into his lane and hope he gets the message that you want to get by and moves over for you.

If you try to undertake, he could swerve in front of you at at any time without warning. The same thing could happen if he were in the left lane and you were legally overtaking him on the right, however people just don't expect to be passed on the left and rarely/never use their passenger side mirror. And if he swerves in front of you and there's a collision you'll be at least partly to blame. Not to mention the fact that a collision at motorway speeds could send you spinning across the central reservation and into oncoming traffic.


And all this "I'm OK cause I'm not breaking the speed limit" attitude is BS. You don't have a God given right to drive at the speed limit, you must alter your driving to account for the presence of other road users (even if they're driving like muppets) Two wrongs don't make a right. For example, as someone already mentioned, if you tailgate someone who's hogging the right hand lane and they brake and you hit them you are 101% in the wrong.

BrianD3

Victor

Time for a camera on every overbridge.

Spunog UIE

right said my bit, going on about speed was just an example of the legal bit, and a bit of logic, they were merely examples of speeds, and again not to be taken as commandments.

To be a good and safe driver, you need three things, good car control and awareness and a bit of ****ing common sense imo.

I maintain its bull**** rule and probally aimed at 'Stupid drivers' who lack the above. It will not change my method or attiude to driving in the manner I do. I hope to god that its not enforced except in cases of extream muppetry, even at that I think the person should be done for dangerous driving and not undertaking.

I mentioned the tailgating as example of being preoccupied and hung up with the holy law and not realising the logic and awareness. sceptre elabourated.

You acknowlege its the same thing moving from each lane maybe a slightly worse blind spot. So any 'offences should come down to the dangerous driving'. Then again aswell as stupid drivers we have the same amount of stupid enforcers. Theres no winning this.

When I do undertake I don't fly by but steadily and safely, and always watching that potential lethal driver, there so many bad ones its scary, meeting one a day is not uncommon. I do not concider myself one nor has anyone thats been with me or following me.

And as for your comment refering to me earlier, I respect things if they warrant it, not just because I'm told. I don't appreciate you making judgements about me or what I do, especially such generalisied (rules), unfounded ones.

Ultimately I think it all comes down to the fact that we need better systems in place, to make people aware and have them aware of the etiquette of moving over to the left side after overtaking to avoid all this crap.

Seth Brundle

One thing that I don't think has been mentioned about those driving slower than traffic in the overtaking lane (besides their lack of knowledge (& ettiquette) of driving) is the fact that many of them are oblivious to the fact that there is someone behind them.
This is one reason why I tend to drive with my dipped headlamps on all the time.

sceptre

Originally posted by Gideon
So its okay to go past someone in the left hand lane as long as you haven't moved there from the right? Honestly is that what your trying to say????

Don't think anyone said that.


Incidentally, I can see where you're coming from. You don't see the point of sitting behind an idiot who's going 30 on the motorway in the right hand lane.

skipn_easy

If you are driving along in the left hand lane doing 60 mph and theres some idiot out in the right hand lane doing 35mph than I would think you're allowed to just stick to your lane and continue as is, being aware that that driver could change lane at any point. Theres no reason why you should slow down to 35mph just because the other car is doing that.

Rules are rules, but when it comes to driving safely you need to use common sense and it may not always be the safest thing to do to follow a rule strictly to the letter.

How many of you would cross a solid white line when overtaking a bicycle? I think its a lot safer than slowing down to the speed of the bike, slowing everyone behind you down and putting pressure on the cyclist while you wait until a broken white line. That is strictly illegal (you may never overtake on a solid white line) but imo that is an ok exception.

mike65

Originally posted by Wyvern
How many of you would cross a solid white line when overtaking a bicycle? I think its a lot safer than slowing down to the speed of the bike, slowing everyone behind you down and putting pressure on the cyclist while you wait until a broken white line. That is strictly illegal (you may never overtake on a solid white line) but imo that is an ok exception.

Y' know I've got this idea in my head that if the vehicle
is doing less than 20 mph overtaking is fine regardless of white lines if it can be shown that due care and attention was taken when overtaking...

Mike.

sceptre

Originally posted by mike65
Y' know I've got this idea in my head

Oh I do so hope you're right. Because if you're wrong or if there's a chance you're wrong, this whole thing will start all over again:D

BrianD3

I admit that I regularly cross continuous white lines to pass cyclists, tractors etc. But I always make damn sure that it's safe to do so. Because I know that if I do have an accident while crossing a white line, I'll be totally to blame and probably be prosecuted for driving without due care.

There are other occasions when crossing a solid white line is safe eg overtaking as you exit a bend onto a long straight with no side roads. There'll be a solid white line for quite a distance after the bend, to deter traffic coming the opposite direction i.e. approaching the bend, from overtaking (which makes sense, you don't want to be overtaking when coming up to a bend) Having a double line solves this probelm, but most irish roads have just the single line.

Actually, one thing I've noticed is that there are far fewer solid white lines in the UK than here. Wonder why this is. Most bends over there have broken white lines running all the way around them. Perhaps it's something to do with the standard of driving - UK drivers are trusted to use their judgement and not overtake when they can't see. Whereas Irish drivers can't be trusted to use good judgement so the authorities plonk solid white lines everywhere and (try to) force them to behave through rules and regulations.

BrianD3

Victor

I found this slightly different terminology here: http://www.fingalcoco.ie/motorway2/safety.html

"Overtaking
Overtake on the right only, unless traffic is moving in queues and the traffic queue on your right is moving more slowly than you are."

BANZAI_RUNNER

today at 1.30 pm shannon town centre roundabout, Idiot decides he is going to wait until the roundabout is totally empty before driving through it, i'm behind growing old waiting for him , he has his car positioned so you cant pass on the other lane, eventually after 5 mins he has a clear roundabout , starts to pull through it then brakes for no apparent reason, at this point I lot the plot with him , and blew car horn , what followed can only be discussed after the watershed time.......suffice to say , i have his reg number and uncle is cop.....

KyUss

WYVERN SAID : If you are driving along in the left hand lane doing 60 mph and theres some idiot out in the right hand lane doing 35mph than I would think you're allowed to just stick to your lane and continue as is, being aware that that driver could change lane at any point. Theres no reason why you should slow down to 35mph just because the other car is doing that.

Hmm ... If we were all to slow down , behind the muppet that is going 20mph slower than all other traffic and occupying the fast lane, all that happens is you form a big long queue in the OVERTAKING lane , which in the end of the day f**ks up the whole system .

Motorways are a system - Systems that perform well are ones that are 1) safe and 2) efficient.
If everyone , and I mean everyone, pulled back in to the left lane pretty much immediately after overtaking , everything would work fine. Think about it over these points :

1 ) Everyone would naturally drive at the pace that suits them, as no one would be slowed down for extended periods...
2 ) Cars driving IN FRONT, would be better able to gauge the speed of cars behind, i.e Ever wondered what the git behind that continues to cruise just there in your rear view mirror is going to catch up and overtake , or Not ?
3) If you spend more time in the left lane, you spend MAXIMUM time as close as possible to the hard shoulder, and MINIMUM time close to the on coming traffic on other side / concrete median crash barriers etc. Ever seen / had a blow out ? which lane would u prefer to be in at 70 mph ?

I always pull back in to the left, even if I go to overtake only moments later. You should notice the effect on a long motorway ( the n7 for example ) , when people cop on to my style after a mile or two , and then I find an organised, all in the left traffic line, with everyone going at their own pace *and therefore mostly not breaking the speed limit * .... I reckon that if people could count on everyone moving over AT THE SOONEST OPPOTUNITY, then you wouldn't get :
1) drivers getting aggressive as they constantly get held up by muppets that wont pull over until there is a 4 mile gap
2) undertakers
3) as many speed limit breakers - there wouldnt be as much point for most ,as everyone would be moving and progressing that little bit faster.

Noone here has mentioned either that overtaking lane hogs ( BTW - its the overtaking lane, NOT the fast lane) are obviously not good drivers, because simply they have broken two rules of the road just being there : 1) They are totaly unaware of the traffic around them ( TEST FAIL ) and 2) they have not moved into the left lane at the soonest opportunity, which I think is also a test fail .
Phew !
I just hope someone out there agrees with me , or if not , lets me know why not
T

mike65

Originally posted by KyUss
lNoone here has mentioned either that overtaking lane hogs ( BTW - its the overtaking lane, NOT the fast lane) are obviously not good drivers, because simply they have broken two rules of the road just being there : 1) They are totaly unaware of the traffic around them ( TEST FAIL ) and 2) they have not moved into the left lane at the soonest opportunity, which I think is also a test fail .
Phew !
I just hope someone out there agrees with me , or if not , lets me know why not
T

I agree! Left lane good - right lane bad.

Mike.

sceptre

Originally posted by KyUss
I just hope someone out there agrees with me

Yup.

I also like to pull back into the left at the earliest possible opportunity.

pclancy

yep, thats the way to do it. Irish people just dont know that though and it should be tought during instruction and then tested on.

There are so many simple things like that that people dont do and it must have an impact on why our traffic is so bad.

Anther annoyance of mine is when there is a que of traffic blocking the way in and out of a side road. If cars stopped before the side road to leave it clear for cars to get in and out of there would be a much smoother flow also.

Silent Bob

Originally posted by pclancy
Anther annoyance of mine is when there is a que of traffic blocking the way in and out of a side road. If cars stopped before the side road to leave it clear for cars to get in and out of there would be a much smoother flow also.

Similar thing with roundabouts. The rule is that if you can't exit it then you don't enter it, that way it doesn't get blocked for non-main routes. If only people actually did this...

KyUss

pclancy , what about say when people go into yellow boxes, without it being clear, just because the light is green.
then of course the red light comes, youre ready to go and the f**kin eejit is still in the box !!
You can get this 3 or 4 times in a row when its raining on the canal in Dublin , and of course this leads to serious back ups cos the lights are set to such a fine timing.

I carry a lump hammer in my glove box for just such occassions. Be warned !

Also, the new loop system to get on to the Long mile rd. Anyone get pissed off there ?
There are 4 lanes on this loop. the two left ones are for traffic going to the Long Mile. the two right ones are for traffic to go back towards the Red Cow.
Every, and I mean Every , time I go through this junction , some c**t dips in from the right hand lanes at the last moment, to go into the Long Mile lanes.
Once it happened, I was on the way to the hospital on a Sunday morning. Not driving hard ... whistling to the radio blah blah.
I pull up in the correct lane for the long mile , and a woman pulls up beside in a new black mondeo.
We are at the top of the q and I presume the woman knew where she was going , as she seemed so deliberate to take the lane she was in.
lights go green, I proceed , and the biatch nearly takes the front off my car trying to get in !!! I let my annoyance be known with a toot of my horn , and she couldnt lean over her passenger seat far enough to give me back the finger ! the f**kin cheek !
so , I got in front of her, and gently slowed down until I had her ( and the rest of the traffic behind ) stopped. Gave her a piece of my mind and merrily went on my way.