the wheel of time

Kraken

ok have to say its better than lord of the rings. but is there only 10 books printed so far or is it just 10 and thats it never finished anyone able to clarify this for me?

Sarky

10 so far, with no real sign of finishing. They're really getting bogged down in subplots and minor characters lately.

TheSonOfBattles

True, it really has gotten slightly ridicuolous to be honest. I was beginning to think i'd senile before it'd be finished, the 10th book has really picked up the pace. Looks like he may finally be starting to push towards the end, even if the end is still like 4 or 5 books, and a decade from now, at least it's in sight now.

By the way, WoT fans, now that Rand has cleansed Saidin, do you reckon the Waygates are purified as well, or does Machin Shin(however you spell it) still roam them?

OfflerCrocGod

Better then Lord of the Rings WTF?! heretic! what where you smoking when you where reading the books especially the latest books!. God lord the man is full off sh!t he will never end I have every book and I feel ripped off, he's out to pump as many ppl as he can possibly thats why none of the last few are any good and are just meandering along. He started good and now he's just become a hack, if you wanna read a GOOD long series of books read the Discworld series.

How could you compare Tolkien to this whore ; na the ways will probably still be fuc*ed for tensions sake they may be fixed later on I'm sure he'll write half a book on there cleansing:<sarcasm> to be released in 2008</sarcasm>. Has any one noticed how now the first book is appearing in book stores as TWO books, he probably needed a few more bucks.:mad:

TheSonOfBattles

Where to start.

A) I've had one cigarette in my entire life, and never smoked anything else. And that was long after i'd started Robert Jordan. So in answer to that part: Nothing.

I already read the discworld, and think it's one of the greatest series's of books ever written, so that argument fall's flat to.

C)Lord of the Ring's is childish crap in MY opinion, I never said anyone else HAD to share, just that I wanted to know if anyone else DID share it.

D)I agree with the releasing of the first book in seperate components. It makes it easier for new WoT fans to read. After all, starting a series who's first book is several hundred pages long is daunting for most people. It's not like people who already own The Eye Of The World are being forced to go out and buy the seperate editions are they? Cause the goon squad Orbit hired missed me if that's the case. All it does is give people an extra option, whether they want it in one part or two.

E)In referance to that last point, isn't the Lord of the Ring's one single book, that was split up and released in three part's later on? Me see's some idol worship blindness here. Tolkien can do it, but Jordan can't. Hmm, suspicious.

F)And, your right, Tolkien could never be accused of something as crass as longwinded-ness. I mean he only drew a single story out into a three parter, a prequel, and history books of a fictional work. That's just being detailed and completist. Not being money hungry and drawing things out like you accuse Mr. Jordan of being. Never. (By the way, my sarcasm meter just blew.)

G) If you look up the page slightly, you'll see that at least I can admit that my favourite series of books has flaws, can you say the same.

And finally.....

H)If you hate it so much, why do you continue to buy the books as you say you have? Hmm? Suspicious indeed!

After all that, I think it's safe to say "Take it b***h!" I rest my case.

TheSonOfBattles

I can't resist, I have to say it.....

"DEAR GOD, THAT FELT GOOD"

Carpo

Originally posted by TheSonOfBattles

E)In referance to that last point, isn't the Lord of the Ring's one single book, that was split up and released in three part's later on? Me see's some idol worship blindness here. Tolkien can do it, but Jordan can't. Hmm, suspicious.

No, it was written as six books and originally published in three volumes and has since become available in a single volume :rolleyes:

Originally posted by TheSonOfBattles
F)And, your right, Tolkien could never be accused of something as crass as longwinded-ness. I mean he only drew a single story out into a three parter, a prequel, and history books of a fictional work. That's just being detailed and completist. Not being money hungry and drawing things out like you accuse Mr. Jordan of being. Never. (By the way, my sarcasm meter just blew.)

Do you know anything about Tolkien and the books he wrote?

Originally posted by TheSonOfBattles
After all that, I think it's safe to say "Take it b***h!" I rest my case.

Says it all really....

TheSonOfBattles

Yes, that's what I said. I read Tolkien's books year's and year's ago. And have tried to read them again since. But I never can. I think they're rubbish. Sorry, that's just the way I feel.

So I was wrong on point (E). I'll admit that. But (F) still stands. How many books did Tolkien release based on that one world. And that one story, the story of the Ring, don't know exactly how many, but there were several.

Robert Jordan's series may be long winded and dragging, but most author's aren't completely blameless of this.

Raymond E. Feist, David Eddings, David Gemmell, Robert Jordan, and yes, both Tolkien and his Son. They all drag it when it becomes successful, and do you know why? Because the fan's of that particular series want as much as possible.

J.R.R. Tolkien, and Christopher his Son released all his notes on the World of Middle-Earth as books cuase the fans wanted it.

Raymond E. Feist continues to write books based on the same small period of time in Midkemia, and Robert Jordan lengthened the series considerably because he wanted to make it as good as possible for his fans.

All authors do it in some way. And though I don't like the middle earth books, i don't mind that loads of books were released based on it. Because I know how I felt when the Belgariad ended. I wanted more, and more came. Same deal when magician ended. Felt brilliant when more books came out.

I don't mind that Jordan's books are dragging out, or that there's an interminable wait between them, reason being, that glorius feeling I get when I pick up his new book each time, and the excitment and anticipation I get when I read it. It never dims.

So again I say, with full gusto

"Take it B***h"

Thank You.

Carpo

The creation of Tolkien's middle earth began in while he was hospitalised from Trench Fever during the first world war in 1916. It was here he first started writings stories that would later appear in the Silmarillion and The Book of Lost Tales (both of which were not published until after his death).

He continued to write these stories purely for his own entertainment (he had an special love of languages which was why he invented them for his world) throughout his life. However it was not until 1936 that he wrote a short story about a hobbit for his children, and he passed it among his friends. By chance it came to the hands of an employee for a publishing firm and she asked to to complete the story for printing, and thus he wrote story of The Hobbit based in the world he created.

When asked to write a sequel to the Hobbit he started work on the Lord of the Rings, once again based in his Middle Earth. The process took sixteen years before finally being published in 1954.

By the time he died in 1971 the only other middle earth work he had publishesd was The Adventures of Tom Bombadil (1962). It wasnt untill years later that his son collected the stories that he had written right though his life and had them published for the fans that were thirsting for more middle earth.

Now how is this being 'long-winded', 'drawing things out' or being 'money hungry' exactly?

You seem to be under the impression that the books that came after LOTR were based on the original trilogy and were somehow cashing in on its success. The truth is it was entirley the other way around. He spent years creating the world as it appears in the Silmarillion and based LOTR on this.

Anyway....this is about a zillion miles off topic (sorry mods) so if you want to continue this on the LOTR forum I would be happy to.

TheSonOfBattles

Oh dear god man, are you even reading what i'm writing? You don't seem to be.

Not that i'm particularly interested in his life story but I did already write that his son published some of the books because the fan's wanted them, the same way Jordan is writing the books in the fullest way possible because both himself and his fans want that.

And if you'll notice after I wrote that paragraph saying that Tolkien was being long-winded, I put in something to explain I was being SARCASTIC, as in I didn't mean it!! I was trying to convey a point.

The general point of all this isn't to attack Tolkien or his books, just to say that we don't think it's the best title of it's kind ever published. I agree with that statement, because I don't like the books, and I do like the Wheel of Time, you probably feel the opposite way. When I wrote the above piece's I was trying to explain how Jordan isn't the money hungry grubber OfflerCrocGod makes him out to be, and that I don't mind the wait, as I love the books. When I brought Tolkien into it, it was as a counterpoint, to convey my point, as he'd already mentioned him. Simple as that.

I'm not even gonna say it this time. You obviously don't understand what you're reading anyways, seeing as how you missed the point completely.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

what fans robert jordan has left are hoping he will hurry the **** up and finish the bloody series already, it used to be an amazing piece of fantasy up until 'crown of swords' but now it is just drivel, and it isn't because of too many sub characters or sub plots, it's just because of bad writing and terrible character development.

of all the people I know who read Wot, over half of them have said they won't be continuing with the series after the disaster that was book 10, i have only managed to read a few hundred pages into it before the boredom forced me to throw it into a corner and not pick it up again yet.. this was two days after it first came out, so it's been there a while.

TheSonOfBattles

Good for you.

I rather like book 10, and continue to love the series. I do want the series to end as quickly as possible, but not if it comprises the story and characters that he's writing. Maybe it's just me, however I could care less how many other people do or don't share this opinion.

I eagerly await book 11.

OfflerCrocGod

Listen my point is that he has just stopped the series and the last few books (from book seven) have been warmed over rubbish; he's drawing it out for all its worth, that bit we both agree on. On the other hand we dont agree on why. I used to be a fan and really liked it but now its nothing but rubbish. I mean look at Mat one of the three main characters he has barely moved 30 miles in the last four books. Nothing happens ever, to anyone, full stop. You are saying it's because the fans love it I'm saying it's cause he's a hack, he knows he's on to a good thing and is milking it "Until they nail the coffin shut"; I think thats how he puts it in the cover of his books:eek: .

It's like the Simpsons used to be cool but now.......:( .

Ohh by the way trying to imply that Tolkien was nothing but a commercial whore...you're on a hiding to nowhere there, his son though is most definitely the biggest money grubbing piece of sh!t; hence those rubbish History of Middle Earth "books".

TheSonOfBattles

OH DEAR MOTHER OF GOD, ARE ANY OF YE EVENING READING MY POSTS BEFORE YE REPLY TO THEM.

A) This will be the second, and hopefully last time I explain this, when I said Tolkien was being a money grubber, I put in a sentence afterwards to explain:

I WAS BEING SARCASTIC, DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT WORD. YOU USED IT YOURSELF, SO HOPEFULLY YOU DO!

and also...

B)Who's this WE? Because I know for definite I didn't agree that Jordan is drawing it out for all it's worth. I also know he didn't say he was gonna keep that series up till they nail his coffin shut, just that he'd continue writing till they nail his coffin shut. And I still stand by the fact I like the series as it is in the end, and I disagree that nothing's happened.

Rand has cleansed Saidin, and is proposing a truce with the Seanchan, and Mat, while he may not have covered much ground, has helped in restoring the weather patterns, and met his future wife, and that's just a small few of the things.

.

I think that's all I have to say this time. Back to you in the studio for your view OfflerCrocGod, Carpo and Mordeth, to ridicule me, and accuse me yet again of hating Tolkien, and calling him a hack.


....Oh, and I agree, it's a travesty that the simpson's continues to air after several rubbish seasons when brilliant show's like Futurama, Family guy and Undergrads have been cancelled.

Carpo

Originally posted by TheSonOfBattles

And if you'll notice after I wrote that paragraph saying that Tolkien was being long-winded, I put in something to explain I was being SARCASTIC, as in I didn't mean it!! I was trying to convey a point.

oh I seeee

so when you 'sarcastically' said

Originally posted by TheSonOfBattles
And, your right, Tolkien could never be accused of something as crass as longwinded-ness. I mean he only drew a single story out into a three parter, a prequel, and history books of a fictional work. That's just being detailed and completist. Not being money hungry and drawing things out like you accuse Mr. Jordan of being. Never.

and then said

Originally posted by TheSonOfBattles
But (F) still stands. How many books did Tolkien release based on that one world. And that one story, the story of the Ring, don't know exactly how many, but there were several.

You were, in fact, not implying that Tolkien was a money grabbing hack!

cos that makes sense

TheSonOfBattles

SIGH!! RIGHT! One last time.

I DON'T HATE J.R.R. TOLKIEN OR HIS SON

I NEVER ACCUSED EITHER OF BEING HACKS

and last but not least, the whole point is...

I, PERSONNALY, JUST DON'T LIKE THE LORD OF THE RINGS

Now, the point of statement (F) to which you have referred yet again, was to illustrate the differance between OfflerCrocGod's view of two authors who wrote a lot on basically one story. Because that's all the Rings, and Silmarillion's and all those are, the Story of Middle-Earth and the Ring. I said it still stands, cause I think it does as far as i'm concerned.

A lot of people have bi***ed about the length of time between Jordan's books, hell even I have in some forum's on boards. Do you think Tolkien's fans, when he was still releasing books felt any differant? Do you think they didn't whinge about the wait, and say that it was to long?

In years to come, when WoT is finished, do you think the first generation of fan's to read it, and not have to wait between books will be so badly disposed towards it. I think not. They'll have immediate access, just like people do now to Tolkien's books, and will be able to finsh the entire thing in a matter of months, and the pacing and characterisation will seem a lot better because of it.

echomadman

B)Who's this WE? Because I know for definite I didn't agree that Jordan is drawing it out for all it's worth. I also know he didn't say he was gonna keep that series up till they nail his coffin shut, just that he'd continue writing till they nail his coffin shut. And I still stand by the fact I like the series as it is in the end, and I disagree that nothing's happened.

I'm one of this "we"
I read the first 7 WOT books as they came out, I remember the wait between each one being agonising. I did feel that his writing style was getting a bit repetetive in 6 & 7, that the story was slowing down
After the travesties that were 8 & 9 I haven't even bothered to read 10 until i can pick it up for a few quid in a second hand bookshop.

A lot of people have bi***ed about the length of time between Jordan's books, hell even I have in some forum's on boards. Do you think Tolkien's fans, when he was still releasing books felt any differant? Do you think they didn't whinge about the wait, and say that it was to long?

Do some research, or at least read some of the posts in this thread, here it is again so you don't have to scroll up.

The creation of Tolkien's middle earth began in while he was hospitalised from Trench Fever during the first world war in 1916. It was here he first started writings stories that would later appear in the Silmarillion and The Book of Lost Tales (both of which were not published until after his death).

He continued to write these stories purely for his own entertainment (he had an special love of languages which was why he invented them for his world) throughout his life. However it was not until 1936 that he wrote a short story about a hobbit for his children, and he passed it among his friends. By chance it came to the hands of an employee for a publishing firm and she asked to to complete the story for printing, and thus he wrote story of The Hobbit based in the world he created.

When asked to write a sequel to the Hobbit he started work on the Lord of the Rings, once again based in his Middle Earth. The process took sixteen years before finally being published in 1954.

By the time he died in 1971 the only other middle earth work he had publishesd was The Adventures of Tom Bombadil (1962). It wasnt untill years later that his son collected the stories that he had written right though his life and had them published for the fans that were thirsting for more middle earth.

TheSonOfBattles

Yes, and where exactly is the need for research out of interest. You just said yourself therewas a sixteen year wait between Hobbit and Rings, my question was whether or not fans would have felt this was to long, lost interest or just whinged uncontrollably about the wait. And the wait for the Tom Bombadil books, and the wait between then and his son publishing books from his notes when they knew they were on the way?

Kraken

id say the ways are still infected. seeing as how the ways were closed when he cleasened sadin. why someone didnt just leave the way gate in that place whos name i cant remember open is beyond me.

also who thinks luc aka stalker in book 3 (i think periin was back in 2 rivers) is the ansestor of moraines wareder lan... seem to remember something being said about him before.

in fairness have to say rand is a lucky bastard has 3 chick who love him and none of them mind if he gets intamite with the other too much..

any one got any other little questions they might like to ask sub plots or what ever?

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

luc is a mixture of lans ancestor and some other dude.. remember the borderland guy who betrayed his people to leave for the blight?

and that old dude that mat met in ebou'dar... farstrider anyone?

OfflerCrocGod

Yep thats who Luc is, does anyone ever feel that sometimes the characters are to niave or weak??. Say there is this character you just can tell is a Darkfriend but the other characters dont seem to recognise it?. By weak I mean the way Rand is in constant agony over everyone and everything, it agonises me! . By the way TheSonOfBattles the "we" was the fact that we both agree on the fact that J is drawing out the series, just to put you're mind at ease.....

TheSonOfBattles

I said that? I don't remember saying that? I said I wish it would finish quicker, but not at the expense of the story, or the characters.

Yea, your right about the character's being blind to certain people's obvious darkfriend tendencies. But that's an integral part of a lot of books, movies, comics etc, etc, etc, to be honest.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

true, but in the wheel of time all of the characters just dont talk to each other!
they all have some sort of grudge against someone, they keep all their secrets to themselves and don't help anyone but themselves! christ, rand might have won the bloody war by now and egwene could be sitting on the (erm.. what's the aes sedai throne again?) if they just sat down and DISCUSSED things instead of her sniffing and turning up her nose, and him trying to be as tough as steel and as much of a git as possible.

the characters are just getting on my tits now, they are all such god damned fools.. cept mat, he's still the best

Thanx 4 The Fish

The Amyrlin Seat/Throne ???

Rand is a bit fu<ked up anyway, but ya know what they say, Just because you are paranoid, doesn't mean everybody isn't after you...

TheSonOfBattles

True Mat is a tres kewl character indeed, and the ashanderie he carries is just brilliant. You can somewhat similiar stuff on the net, but decent one's are god damned expensive, €500 or €600 not including postage etc. Can't wait to find out what the story regarding him and his wife is.

Quigs Snr

Well I never thought I'd read a book better than LOTR. (Having never read a fantasy book before it, except for the Dune series).

I cautiously agree with the original post, I do prefer WOT. Mainly because of it's larger scope etc.... I have read the first 9 books in rapid succession this year and I find myself completely wrapped up in the characters. There is a bit of panto, of the 'he's behind you !!!!! you stupid mofo, kind which is annoying, and the lack of communication between some characters also makes me a little weary.

In summary, this is what I thought of the series.....

Books 1-3, oh-oh, we have started off as a LOTR clone, gets better though. Book 2 develops the story and scope, book 3, slightly weaker than one and 2 I felt, still brilliant though.

4, 5 and 6, I think were the best part of the series so far and really blend into each other.

For most 7 was the begining of the decline in quality. I disagree, I think it's a great book, it lacks pace, not quality, and is a compelling read all the way through. Compelling simply because at this stage you are really locked in with the characters.

8, for the most part is considered the worst. I have to say, that I would struggle to disagree with this. To be honest, there were so many sub-plots, and names of minor lords mentioned briefly about 4 books back that it was hard to keep track.

9 I thought was a return to form with a great finish and I am looking forward to reading book 10 despite the slightly negative reviews.


By the way, Slayer, is Luc (Lans Cousin I think) and also another bloke who is related to Andor, Rands Uncle, can't remember his name. They are pretty much one and the same and the dark ones (or perhaps the forsakens) special assassin for hire.

ixoy

You know I'm also sick of WoT. I'll continue purely because I've started but, like soooo many others, I thought it's gone to hell since the rather excellent Book 6. Again and again you wait for something to happen but nothing ever does because he's moving about half a trillion characters. I spent the whole of Books 8 & 9 waiting... and waiting. I'm put off getting Book 10 as a result and additionally because everyone is saying, with 1 exception here, that it's a stinking pile of crap (it's got a dreadfully low rating on the normally fan-boy reviewing on Amazon).

I think it'd make a good polll for the Sci-Fi fantasy board actually:

Are you sick of the WoT time?
1 - No way! The Wheel of Time can turn forever as far as I'm concerned
2 - Not yet, but I'd like to see Jordan move things along a little
3 - Kinda, I'm getting a bit peeved with the last few books.
4 - Yes, it's been rubbish for a while now. Someone slap Jordan.
5 - I want the Wheel of Time to run over him and then demand my money back from the thieving long-winded gobshi*e.

TheSonOfBattles

Wow, I'm an exception. I feel so speshul. Thank you. Seriously enough, i'd be voting for 2, and you should definately start that vote.

I'd do it, but it's your vote to start since it was your idea, and I don't want to be accused of plagarism on top of everything else i've been accused of lately. :rolleyes:

Kraken

mat is pretty slick have to admit that but i also think perrin is pretty cool. he has at tendency to get a bit lame from time to time but overall quiet the hard ****..

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

when he's away from faile he's pretty cool alright, although I just wish he'd get to grips with the wolf things already

we need more frmo elyas too, he could turn out to be a great character

OfflerCrocGod

All the characters are absolute gobsh!te idiots except for mat who is still not a riveting read ixoy you put my feelings into words he has WAY to many people and they all crawl along. When one of the now 300 characters finally do something you feel like standing up and clapping. I mean are they a bunch of retards or what!, look at Egwene (I think) has a huge army with her all that travelling crap she can do and what does she do SITS on her arse for a couple of books before getting caught by someone(who knows who). Anyone with half a brain would have stayed away from danger being the leader of the rebellion. Same with all the other characters they are terrified of action!. :mad:

I'm reading Magician right now and boy is it much more fun, time passes but, would you believe this!, things actually happen!:eek:. Incredible!, but the characters actually appear alive:eek:. O.K. enough shocking relevation kids, all him hoping for is a quick death to what has become a real piece of rubbish. ixoy No. 5 please.:p