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Setting up a 2-PC network with different OS?

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  • 31-08-2003 5:51pm
    #1
    Zaphod B
    Closed Accounts Posts: 418 ✭✭


    ZoneAlarm managed to somehow deactivate my network and prevent both computers from recognising each other in any way whatsoever, as I mentioned in a previous post. No one was able to help me with that either here or anywhere else I tried, so I gave up on ZoneAlarm as I consider my network more important.

    The problem is that having uninstalled ZoneAlarm, I still can't get the network to work. The obvious solution is to try to set up the network again, but apparently it can't be done. Not knowing much about networking I ran the Network Setup Wizard on this computer (with Windows XP). Everything was fine until the wizard told me to set the network up on the other computer. The other computer runs Windows 2000, and the Network Setup Wizard doesn't work with Windows 2000. 98 and ME yes, but not 2000. Because for it to work on all versions would obviously be far too helpful and un-Microsofty.

    SO... my current situation is that I have 2 computers, one running XP and one running 2K Home. They both have Network cards, they both have cables connecting to a Linksys hub, and they're both sending data. Neither is receiving though. Nothing I've tried can make either computer accept even the existence of the other.
    And all because I had the temerity to try protecting my computers from the w@nkers who insisted on sending me MS-Blast and various other gifts. Thankyou ZoneAlarm, thankyou Microsoft.

    Can anyone suggest a way of getting my Windows 2K machine and my Windows XP machine to share files, printers, and most importantly the internet connection on this (the WinXP) machine? I'd really be very grateful for any help or suggestions; I'd even pay large sums of cash to get it fixed if only I had any :(


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    #2
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,807 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    So many variables...

    Best place to start is at the basics. On each PC, look at the network settings one at a time. Make sure they're using the same protocols (I just use TCP/IP, it's simpler). Make sure the protocols are configured exactly the same way. Make sure the workgroup name is the same on both. If you're using XP's Internet sharing, I think the workgroup has to be called MSHOME. Make sure the computer names are different. If using static IPs, make sure the IP addresses are different. Make sure NetBIOS is enabled over TCP/IP (usually is by default).

    ...pause for breath...

    Can they ping each other?


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    #3
    Zaphod B
    Closed Accounts Posts: 418 ✭✭Zaphod B


    I added NWLink IPX/SPX/NetBios as a protocol on the Network settings on the other computer (it was already on this one) and now the other computer recognises this one. If I view workgroup computers on that computer I can see both. However if I try to view all workgroup computers on this one it freezes for a ridiculously long time before showing only this computer. I still can't connect to the Internet from the other computer. They still can't ping each other... :(

    Edit: Interesting, this. I went into TCP/IP properties on this computer and tried to change the IP to that of the other computer. Error messages popped up on both computers simultaneously (so there's obviously communication). So I change the IP back, yet both computers still refuse to ping each other... This is weird.


    Edit again: O...K.... I tried using Net View in the command prompt this time...
    New View (name of other computer)...
    System error 5 has occured.
    Access is denied.

    Now if I type Net View Monkey or Net View MyArse or any other random word in place of the other computer's name, the resulting error message is "System error 53 has occured; the network path was not found". So this computer clearly knows about the existence of the other one... it just won't let me look at it.


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    #4
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,807 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    I'd probably be inclined to strip both back to just using TCP/IP. All the Windows networking stuff uses NetBIOS, which works just as well over TCP as NetBEUI. IPX is just a waste of bandwidth if you're not on a Novell network.

    Lack of pings is a major obstacle. Whatever about file/print sharing, Internet sharing absolutely requires TCP/IP to work. Are there any vestiges of ZoneAlarm hanging around? Do you have any TCP/IP filters configured? (TCP/IP properties -> advanced -> options -> TCP/IP filtering)

    What IPs and subnets are you using?


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    #5
    Zaphod B
    Closed Accounts Posts: 418 ✭✭Zaphod B


    The "Enable TCP/IP Filtering (All Adapters) box is unticked and TCP, UDP and IP boxes all set to "Permit All".

    The IP on this one is 192.168.0.1, and on the other is 192.168.100.10. The Subnet mask is 255.255.255.0
    Hope this helps

    Edit: I removed "NWLink NetBIOS" and "NWLink IPX/SPX/NetBIOS Compatible Transport Protocol" on both machines, and they are now no longer receiving anything from each other. Although they were only receiving a handful of bytes before it at least meant they were talking... now they're not. Each computer is now no longer listed as being part of the workgroup on the other machine. In other words the Novell stuff was apparently the only thing connecting them at all, and TCP/IP is in fact doing nothing.


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    #6
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,807 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Originally posted by Zaphod B
    The IP on this one is 192.168.0.1, and on the other is 192.168.100.10. The Subnet mask is 255.255.255.0
    Hope this helps
    Ding! There's your problem. That combination of addresses and subnet mask means that the two PCs are on separate networks, and can't see each other.

    Change 192.168.100.10 to 192.168.0.10, and see how you get on. Leave all that other cruft out, it was only confusing the issue.


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    #7
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,807 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    To clarify (simplistically):

    Each portion of the subnet mask tells the PC how to determine whether an address is on the same physical network. Where you have 255s, that tells the PC "this part of the address has to be the same." The zero for the last part says "this part can be different."

    Because the third number in the address was different, but the third part of the subnet mask was 255, both PCs assumed that the other was on a separate network, and that packets would have to be routed. In the absence of a static route, the default gateway is used. If the default gateway can't be found, or can't reach the destination address either, you're stuck.

    The other protocols allowed you some success, because they don't use addressing the way IP does. They wouldn't have helped you with your Internet connection sharing problem though.

    Hope this is meaningful - maybe others will elaborate further.


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    #8
    Zaphod B
    Closed Accounts Posts: 418 ✭✭Zaphod B


    Hmmm :/ The other machine now shows this one as being part of the workgroup. This one however does not accept the other :(
    As you predicted, no change in the Internet sharing either :(

    Thanks for the help; at least I'm making some kind of progress now :) as I can send files to the other computer using shared folders. It's annoying having only one-way communication though :( Any thoughts on why it's doing this?

    Thx again


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    #9
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,807 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Have you stripped both PCs back to just TCP/IP? (I've always found multiple protocol stacks to be more trouble than they're worth.) Do both PCs have NetBIOS enabled over TCP/IP? Is either PC configured to use a WINS server?

    Anyone else want to jump in here? :)


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    #10
    Zaphod B
    Closed Accounts Posts: 418 ✭✭Zaphod B


    Aye both are now down to TCP/IP, they both seem to have NetBIOS too. The other PC seems to think it's using a WINS server but there is no server IP entered. On this one I can't find any mention of WINS anywhere.

    I'm also trying other firewalls, hoping to find one that will let me use the Internet Connection Sharing when (if) I get that working again. Currently using Tiny personal firewall. Me no like :(


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    #11
    morgana
    Registered Users Posts: 1,247 ✭✭✭morgana


    ZoneAlarm certainly seems to mess up connectivity in some set-ups. And is hellishly difficult to unstinstall completly. I ended up having to reinstall the OS (in this case the network was alright but Internet connection was erratic to unworkable after a ZA uninstall). Before you install another firewall I would sort out the network situation first. I found Sygate and Outpost to be excellent and very informative.

    HTH


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    #12
    Zaphod B
    Closed Accounts Posts: 418 ✭✭Zaphod B


    Thanks, that confirms my suspicions that it was still ZoneAlarm's work. Is there any way to check if it's completely uninstalled? Even if it involves mass checking of registry keys it's got to be better than reinstalling Windows given how much crap I have on here and how few CDs I have :/


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    #13
    Zaphod B
    Closed Accounts Posts: 418 ✭✭Zaphod B


    (Possibly) interesting development... Edonkey claims I'm firewalled even though I currently have no firewall installed. Remnants of ZoneAlarm? Surely there is some way to undo ZA's damage without reinstalling Windows?

    Forget ZA for a minute, situation update...

    There is apparently data going between the 2 PCs. I can now access shared files on this computer from the other one. But I can't access shared files on the other computer from this one.

    On the other PC when I look at the workgroup computers, both show up instantly. On this PC, when I look at workgroup computers this one shows up instantly, the other after about a minute of inactivity and the old egg timer.

    On the other PC I can simply double click on the icon for this PC and start looking at shared files. On this PC I double click on the icon for the other one and am confronted with a Windows box asking me to connect to it with an email address as if it was fecking Hotmail. None of the email addresses listed work of course. Nor can I simply enter nothing. This is ridiculous, I should be able to simply click on My Network Places and see the shared folders of BOTH computers listed instead of just this one. Like I used to only a month ago.

    Then of course there's the fact that I STILL can't connect to the Internet from the other computer and still can't pick up e-mails from the other computer. In other words Internet Connection Sharing is still not working. And the thnig is I've looked at every possibility I can think of and NOTHING explains why this b@stard won't work. I'm now desperate enough to reinstall/reformat, except I can't because there's nowhere for this 60 gig to go while I do that...

    Not a post so much as the rant of a desperate man. Will exchange soul for technical assistance. Please help, anyone. Anyone, help please. Please. :*(


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    #14
    Zaphod B
    Closed Accounts Posts: 418 ✭✭Zaphod B


    Tis a lonely feeling, posting 3 times in succession :(
    Still, didn't want to spam by creating a new post.

    New development: Can't download attachments from Outlook on this computer. They're greyed out. (Bear in mind I can't connect at all from the other computer). I can download from free e-mail accounts (Hotmail and Netshop) tho. Any thoughts? Thx.


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    #15
    Frank Grimes
    Registered Users Posts: 5,337 ✭✭✭Frank Grimes


    Originally posted by Zaphod B
    New development: Can't download attachments from Outlook on this computer. They're greyed out.
    Is it OE6? If so go to Tools > Options > Security and untick "Do not allow attachments to be saved..."


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    #16
    pablo21
    Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭pablo21


    On the one thats not visible, disable firewall and then enable sharing on any folder (not windows and not Shared folder), it will prompt you to use the networking wizard just decline and share!
    Hope this helps.


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