Netsource in SNL Type Fiasco.

spongebob

It seems that they throttled the top 10% or so of all their users. The throttle restricts them to 170k - 190k or so and will apparently be enforced for 2 months. The problem is that they did it first and didn't tell anyone until they started to contact Netsource asking what was wrong with the service.

I am not against the Fair Usage followed by a throttle idea myself. It is much fairer than this despicable Australian Practice any day of the week. The Australian practise awaits Eircom and IOL users no doubt. Eircoms equivalent in Australia (Telstra) pulls in 17% of its revenue from people who bust their caps so why should our dear Rat be any different.

Animated Discussions on the subject of Netscources unlilateral change to their T&C's are ongoing in the BB Board Here . Get a copy of those T&C's quick lads before Netsource change them, ye may need them in the small claims court.

M

d0gb0y

I agree the main problem is that it was done without any warning as to cancelling the direct debit, I have done this but I will be only to happy to pay what I owe for my l33t 164k connection. Btw could someone with a law background have a look at the T&C?
Theres some porn ISO's in it for ye

spongebob

Get the T&C's first ,paste them all in a text file ,attach the txt file to a post. (see the box at the bottom of the window when you type a message to post) Then we will know what we are talking about.

I am not personally minded to crucify Netsource over this, they have mishandled the issue in a dreadful way and will undoubtedly suffer disproportionally from their cack handed throttle.

They got most of their customers through Boards and will have to make it up to the community here if they are to get ANY further recommendations from anyone. All in all it is a sad situation caused by lack of forethought.

One email to the customers informing them of a change to the T&C's from the 01 September would have made half the Hogs throttle themselves anyway. Dear Dear.

M

shinzon

Im not against the idea of throttling users who abuse any uncapped service ***, but not to tell these people that there doing it is just not on, unless there is something in the Tand Cs to say that they reserve the right to do this then there is a legitimate claim there and should be acted upon pronto before the Netsource guys change it.

Ye know the more I read about what problems people are having with the various broadband products im kinda glad i cant get it because its sounds so poor as to be unbelieveable

Doesnt mean i wont give up the fight, but im just wondering am all i fighting for is one giant headache after another.

ESATBT's business ADSL seems to be the only one to go for but is way to expensive at the mo, the only problem is the more people defect to any of t he other services be it capped or uncapped your going to get the same probs all over again and rather than taking it out on netsource the abusers will be taking it out on IOL BB eircom and the businesss ADSL

Regards

Shin

nahdoic

Why do ISPs in Ireland, except for UTV not understand customer service ...

What lunatic in netsource made the decisions to throttle users without at least emailing and phoning them to let them know. Did they think people just wouldn't notice?

d0gb0y

Ok heres the Netsource T&C that I got when I signed up with them.

NETSOURCE agrees to make available to the customer the facility described below on the following terms and conditions:

1. Interpretation

1.1 In this agreement:

‘ADSL Line’ means an asymmetric digital subscriber line.
“Agreement” means this agreement between NETSOURCE and the
Customer for the provision and installation of the Facility.
“Rental” means the recurring charge payable by the customer to NETSOURCE in respect of the Facility.
“Connection Charge” means the once off non-recurring charge payable by the
Customer for the initial installation and provision of the Facility.
“Content” means data, information, video, graphics, sounds, music, pictures, text, codes, scripts, photographs, software and any other material (in whatever form) which may be available as part of the facility.
“Customer” means the Company, individual or corporation, who accepts these Terms and Conditions and agrees to be bound by them using the Facility.
“Contract Term” is the period of time specified at clause 3 for which the Customer agrees to be bound by them using the Facility.
‘NETSOURCE” means NETSOURCE Ltd.
“NETSOURCE DSL” means the provision of an ADSL line at the premises to enable the Customer to avail of high speed Internet access
“Internet” means the global data network comprising interconnected networks using TCP/IP (Transmission Control Protocol/Internet Protocol).
“Initial Period” means twelve calendar months from the RFS date.
“Premises” means the location where the facility is provided.
“Ready for Service Date (RFS Date) means the date on which NETSOURCE establishes the Facility for the Customer.


1.2 This Agreement shall be governed by and construed in accordance with Irish law.
1.3 The headings in this Agreement are for convenience only and shall not affect its interpretation.
1.4 The parties agree that the fact that this Agreement may be stored or exchanges in electronic form shall not affect its validity.

2. Customers Obligations

2.1 The Customer hereby agrees to avail of the Facility subject to the provisions of the Telecommunications Scheme in force for the time being and the provisions of any legislation applicable thereto (all together hereinafter referred to as “the regulations”.
2.2 The Customer agrees to be bound by the monthly download allowance attaching to its chosen NETSOURCE DSL product.

3. Commencement and Duration of Agreement

This Agreement shall commence on the Ready for Service date and shall be for a minimum period of 60 working days from this date (RFS Date). Provided that this Agreement has not been terminated in accordance with its terms or in accordance with the Regulations, this Agreement shall thereafter automatically renew fir successive month periods with a minimum cancellation notice of 60 working days. For the purposes of this clause 3, a 60 day period shall be calculated from the anniversary of the RFS Date.

4. Provision and Exchange of Information

The Customer agrees to provide NETSOURCE and its agents with all such information and co-operation including, inter alia, suitable Customer premises equipment as NETSOURCE may reasonably require from time to time to enable it to provide the Facility. NETSOURCE may in its absolute discretion refuse to provide the Facility where such information or co-operation is not provided by the Customer.

5. Charges and Payment

The Customer agrees that without prejudice to the Customer’s right to terminate this Agreement under due notice, to pay on demand such Rental and Connection Charges as may be fixed from time to time by or in accordance with the Regulations in respect of the Facility. And for the avoidance of doubt the connection charge includes internal wiring up to a maximum of 20 meters from the NTU. Additional wiring will incur a charge.





6. Termination

6.1 This Agreement may be suspended or terminate by NETSOURCE on written notice to the Customer for breach of its terms or, otherwise in accordance with the regulations.
6.2 Subject to the provisions of clause 6.3, this Agreement may be terminated by either party on giving two month’s written notice to the other.
6.3 If the Customer terminates the Facility in whole or in part during the initial Period, NETSOURCE may, without prejudice to its right to treat the termination as a breach or repudiation of this Agreement, agree to accept such termination provided notice of such termination is addressed to NETSOURCE and the Customer agrees to pay to NETSOURCE such sum as represents the remaining Rental due to NETSOURCE for the balance of the initial period up to a maximum of 2 months Rental.
6.4 Provision of the Facility may result in temporary loss of telephone service to the Customer during the period in which installation of the Facility is taking place.
6.5 NETSOURCE does not warrant that the Facility will meet the Customer’s requirements or that the operation of the Facility will be uninterrupted or error-free.
6.6 The Customer agrees that from time to time it may be necessary for NETSOURCE to temporarily suspend the Facility during periods of repair, essential maintenance or alteration or improvement to NETSOURCE telecommunications network or otherwise in accordance with the law. Where possible NETSOURCE will give the Customer notice prior to such suspension and NETSOURCE shall restore the Facility as soon as possible after such suspension.
6.7 The Facility is provided in accordance with the relevant product description. The Customer acknowledges that the relevant product description may contain limitations and constraints on the use of the Facility. The Customer agrees and undertakes to adhere to these constraints and restrictions.
6.8 The Facility is provided solely for the Customer’s own use and the Customer shall not resell or attempt to resell the Facility (or any part thereof) to any third party.
6.9 Where additional terms and conditions govern any access to any Content or to any Internet Facility, the Customer acknowledges that it is obliged to comply with such terms and conditions.


7. Liability

7.1 In no such event shall NETSOURCE be liable to the Customer in contract, tort or otherwise including any liability for negligence or breach of statutory duty for:
(i) any loss of revenue, business, contracts, anticipated savings, or profits, or
(ii) any loss or corruption of data or PC software configuration
(iii) any indirect or consequential loss, howsoever arising.
“Anticipated Savings” means any expense. Which the Customer expects to avoid incurring or to incur in a lesser amount that would otherwise have been the case by reason of using the Facility.

7.2 In so far as the same is permissible by law, NETSOURCE shall not be liable in contract, tort or otherwise for any injury, loss or damage, (other than death or personal injury caused by the negligent act or omission of NETSOURCE) arising directly or indirectly from:
(a) any act, omission, error default, failur
or delay in respect of the provision, installation, operation, maintenance or termination of the Facility:
(b) any failure of the Facility:
(c) any failure of, or defect in, anything provided as part of or in association with the Facility.

7.3 In no event shall NETSOURCE be liable to the Customer for damage suffered by the Customer as a consequence of acts or omissions of providers telecommunications services or for faults in or failures to their network or equipment. The Customer acknowledges that it accesses the Internet at its own risk and that NETSOURCE has no responsibility for any goods, services, information, software or other materials accessed by the Customer whilst using the Facility.

can't fit it in 1 post

d0gb0y

heres the rest

8. Indemnity

The Customer shall indemnify NETSOURCE against all claims made against NETSOURCE, for loss, damage or injury to any person or property occasioned by or arising from the installation of the Facility in so far as the same is not directly attributable to the negligent acts or omissions of NETSOURCE and/or from Customers operation or use of the Facility.

9. Maintenance

9.1 The Customer shall notify NETSOURCE as soon as possible after a defect, fault or impairment in the operation of the Facility is detected and NETSOURCE shall use it’s best endeavours to attend as soon as practicable to the fault at the Customer’s Premises or at whichever location NETSOURCE considers the reported fault to be located.
9.2 If the Customer requests maintenance outside specified normal working hours (i.e. 8.30 – 5.00 Monday to Friday excluding Public Holidays), in the event of such maintenance being provided, costs may not be covered by the rental and may be billed separately.
9.3 Without prejudice to the provisions of Clause 9.1 and for the purposes of Clause 9.2 the term “Maintenance” means maintenance of the NTU (Network Termination Unit) and/or the Splitter but not any internal wiring which at all times remains the responsibility of the Customer.
9.4 NETSOURCE reserves the right to charge the Customer for maintenance services where the need for maintenance services results from any one of or a combination of the following:
(i) acts of God, lightening, electric voltages and currents impressed on the telecommunications line by lightening or otherwise, fires, floods, storms or other catastrophes; or
(ii) Government control, restrictions or prohibitions: or
(iii) any other act or omission of any public authority (including government) whether local, national or international or:
(iv) the wilful or negligent act or default of the Customer or of any supplier, agent or other person; or
(v) failure of the Customer to comply with any of the provisions of this Agreement; or
(vi) fault in or other problem associated with any telecommunications systems other than that of NETSOURCE; or any other cause whatsoever which is beyond the reasonable control of VIA Networks

10. Service

NETSOURCE reserve the right to change service without prior notice.

11. Acceptable User Policy

As a client of NETSOURCE you must adhere to our Acceptable User Policy. To view policy details please visit:
http://www.vianetworks.com/acceptable.html

d0gb0y

Clause 10 is my main worry

Dustaz

Originally posted by d0gb0y
10. Service

NETSOURCE reserve the right to change service without prior notice.

Thats their protection right there. Esat had the same thing in the SNL t&c and it saved them from a PR nightmare and alieniated customers who wouldnt touch them with a bargepole...oh wait it didnt.

Mr Netsource Middle Manager - Are you really this stupid?

Its one thing to repeat the mistakes of a babybell in middle america 15 years ago, but to go and replicate almost the exact thing that was responsible for IOFFL's formation just 2 1/2 years ago is beyond stupidty.

Urban Weigl

The state of broadband in this country is simply sad. According to Forrester, Ireland and Greece now have Europe's most expensive ADSL (and that is not even taking into account the inferior service we are getting).

Nothing much can be said I guess. It's depressing.

d0gb0y

hehe Dustaz, I doubt its on the scale of the IOL scam(which I was also involved in:mad: )
Its disappointing to see that clause in the contract as it means that they can do anything they really want, I just wished my I hadn't turned off my spidey sense the day I signed that contract.

Supercell

This would appear to be only on contended exchanges, I have downloaded a lot more than others who claim to have their bandwidth squeezed.

It most definately is NOT a global policy.

(I trust my ip is withheld by the admins)

gurramok

Thanks to the unofficial PRO from Blank ....

Its the top 10% of Netfarce customers globally not just on particular exchanges.
Some users on boards that are on my exchange (Finglas) have never reported any service problems but we(well me) are throttled !
I have been on RADSL service since middle of May with no service issues so maybe i'm a so-called established customer to be targeted
Maybe they have bypassed your disgraceful usage of the 'no cap' (sarcasm intended)

I just wonder how do i get off their hitlist, i doubt they will tell me as they never informed me about the throttling in first place
:mad:

Supercell

Originally posted by gurramok

Its the top 10% of Netfarce customers globally not just on particular exchanges.

NO it isnt, the figures being bandied around are 30 -40 gb per month.....I am more than a litttle above these figures and am not "throttled".

The only logical conclusion that makes sense imho is that its on contended exchanges.

spongebob

Originally posted by d0gb0y
8. Indemnity

The Customer shall indemnify NETSOURCE against all claims made against NETSOURCE, for loss, damage or injury to any person or property occasioned by or arising from the installation of the Facility in so far as the same is not directly attributable to the negligent acts or omissions of NETSOURCE and/or from Customers operation or use of the Facility.

10. Service

NETSOURCE reserve the right to change service without prior notice.

Clause 8 overrides clause 10 in this case.

Not predicting the traffic from the top 10% is directly attributable to "the negligent acts or omissions of NETSOURCE and/or from Customers operation or use of the Facility." as per section 8 if you ask me.

M

d0gb0y

All this speculation is making it worse I wish they would make a statement on their website about it. The sad thing is that there is probbaly people ou there who have had their connection restricted & might not even know about it yet.

Hi Muck
The Indemnity paragraph gives me motion sickness;)

Supercell

Originally posted by Muck
Clause 8 overrides clause 10 in this case.

Not predicting the traffic from the top 10% is directly attributable to "the negligent acts or omissions of NETSOURCE and/or from Customers operation or use of the Facility." as per section 8 if you ask me.

M

LOL good point

Da Man

So they cap these "offenders" for two months straight? Isn't that a little harsh? Surely it would make more sense to cap the high usage users during peak when it matters, and let them rip off-peak. Sounds like a lot of the high usage users download overnight, which is presumably fairly harmless in the scheme of things.

The link to that Australian article is broken, btw. Can you summarise what it's about, please?

spongebob

Originally posted by Da Man

The link to that Australian article is broken, btw. Can you summarise what it's about, please?

fixée

conZ

Has anyone called into their offices at all? Maybe someone should (IOFFL committee) and bitch to their manager for a while.

d0gb0y

Conz
I rang twice yesterday & both times they denied restricting my bandwidth & said it was the rate adaptive side of RADSL that was causing this. Some people managed to get past the goons that I got stuck with & got some answers but they vary. Damn I wish I had recorded my phone conversation with them. Best to look at the threads in the Broadband section of the forum if you don't mind reading through all the posts:D

Blank

well for my part ive fired off an email lto comreg stating everything that has happened since thursday, customer feeling towards netsource and the lack of quality, customers have been getting in regards to the pings of late. I also attached the original T&C that netfarce mailed me too.

Hopefully Comreg will give this considerate thought and research and take any action they can find. Hope no one minds but I also mentioned boards.ie as an excellent place to find first hand how people have reacted and the points they`ve raised. If they bother looking they`ll definitely get a good idea towards the size of this issue :cool:

d0gb0y

Comreg rang me today to inform that there is nothing that they can. The person from comreg said that there is only 24 users on the Lagsource SOHO, I think they are awaiting new stats from lagsource.

Kwizatz Anorak

NETSOURCE DSL” means the provision of an ADSL line at the premises to enable the Customer to avail of high speed Internet access

average ping to www.eircom.net over a 30 min period gave me a speed of 1088ms with 40% packet loss. Not exactly high speed.

6.1 This Agreement may be suspended or terminate by NETSOURCE on written notice to the Customer for breach of its terms or, otherwise in accordance with the regulations

They still insist that I give the 60 working days notice on a service that is not fulfilling it's end of the contract. (Yes, I am using aforementioned service right now, but only because web browsing is about all that's currently possible. It is completely impossible to do anything requiring a HIGH SPEED connection, like games, etc. So I'm stuck here whining about this crap instead of killing aliens)

NETSOURCE reserve the right to change service without prior notice.

That would seem to indicate a continuing provision of said service (ie. HIGH SPEED service), even if they did put in a cap on bandwidth. However, I am currently using the equivalent of a 1200bps modem for internet access.


Ok, now I see that Longfield says the figure being bandied about is 30-40Gb per month. I could be wrong, but I don't see any way that that could be true for our line. There are 4 PC's in the gaff, and people do download some stuff, but most of the time they are being used to play games.

Anyway, gonna go now and play something that doesn't require internet access. Streetfighter anyone?

PrecariousNuts

I also am one of the users that got restricted to 192kb/s (I believe it is now actually lower than this. www.clubi.ie/bigfile.zip which is used as a benchmarking test for download speeds will download at 12.7kb/s for me. Which means I'm currently on dual ISDN with pings that are a lot worse).

I have downloaded 45-50GB in the combined 3 month period since I got my radsl. This amazingly puts in the top 10% of downloaders. I was given no warnings, no notice, nothing before I was restricted.

Even a day after I was restricted I got no word from netsource. They clearly were not going to say anything about it hoping I would not notice. When I asked them what was going on they responded with a copy and paste which others have received word for word. They blamed it on contention which is not the case. I have sent them 6 or 7 emails now and no reply (sent 2 days ago, but it seems the finish working for the day at around 4pm so I hope they will be answered today (4th)).

d0gb0y

I'm on a 56k now have to watch the clock, can't even read or type long posts anymore:mad:

Urban Weigl

12.7, that works out as 101.6kbps, so you're probably at 128kbps or lower.

flamegrill

As i've said in another post, netsource are implamenting contention on their side, as the number of users/exchange isn't enough for it to kick it yet.

Also they are working on a way to let the heavy users fight it out over bandwidth.

And also adding more bandy on their side to the soho product.

flame

PrecariousNuts

http://www.adslguide.org.uk/tools/speedchart.asp?id=f49eef13f783344b0bf49eef13

This is my connection that I am paying 66 euro a month for, after a computer restart, closing all non essential progams and restarting my router.