Isn't it time we got rid of the Angelus?

The Beer Baron

Would anyone agree that since Ireland is no longer a predominantly-Christian country and that our national telivision station should realise that? Instead of asinine "Prayers at Bedtime" and the raucous clamour of the Angelas RTE should either realise this, or, bring so religiously conscious as they are call Muslims to prayer showing pictures of Irish Muslims facing Mecca in the middle of St Stephens Green, or how about prayertime for the Jews, Hindus, Buddists, Bahais, Mormons...

Phew- but they'd never find any time for Fair City or Tranny Bingo now would they?

{edit- OK OK DAMMIT! IT'S ANGELUS- some "...people have nothing better to do than find things to complain about...this is exactly how Nazi Germany started!" - Basil Fawlty}

bugler

THe Angelus is a pet hate of mine. Not because of what it is/stands for, but because it's so friggin annoying. When you're reading about monuments being torn down from in front of court houses in Alabama due to the seperation of state and church, it does make you wonder why Irish people (and those enjoying a stay on our island) still have this obscene dinosaur shoved down their throat every day before the news.

It's a minute of my life I always want back.

Paddy20

Surprisingly, even too me. I have grown to appreciate the few moments of contemplation and excellent camerawork scenes on the Angelus.

A blessing in disguise, just before we are hit with harsh reality of the World News!.

P.;)

Bard

... since Ireland is no longer a predominantly-Christian country and that our national telivision station should realise that...

Actually, Ireland IS still a predominantly Christian (Catholic in fact) country.

Regardless of that though, our national broadcasting country should be impartial and not concentrate so purely on one religion, what with The Angelus, A Prayer At Bedtime, Would You Believe, etc. getting air time.

I don't really believe that there should be many religion-influenced shows on television (especially state-run television) at all - especially if, as in this case, ALL such shows on one particular station are influenced by ONE religion.

dathi1

Since its a long tradition of the host culture I'm sure our new friends have no problem accepting the new country that they now live in and its traditions. Would I ask the Imam to shut up for 5 times a day from his minaret in Turkey whilst I'm there in respect to other traditions......hell no. Turkey is a secular state btw.

Capt'n Midnight

You can see the Six O'clock news headlines on another station and flick back to RTE News in time to hear their headlines

"Comming up on Six-One, Scientists discover a Cure for cancer, Martians Invade, but first .. today in Northern Ireland...."

How many channels do you have that you can't begrudge 60 seconds...

4 minimum
10 Basic NTL / MMDS
100 NTL / SKY
1000 real satellite ...

If you compare the same program on Sky to BBC - Sky put in 10 minutes of Ads per hour and still overrun the intro and credits for many of them.... So you are saying that you won't watch SKY one for more than 6 minutes....

Meh

Originally posted by The Beer Baron
Ireland is no longer a predominantly-Christian country

Incorrect.

mike65

Originally posted by Capt'n Midnight
You can see the Six O'clock news headlines on another station and flick back to RTE News in time to hear their headlines

"Comming up on Six-One, Scientists discover a Cure for cancer, Martians Invade, but first .. today in Northern Ireland...."

RTEs biggest failing is thier slavish obsession with Norn Iron. I dont give a toss if some garment factory in Antrim closes or if an
RTA results in a death in Derry.....

Anyway on topic The Angelus is an affront to a secular multi denominational country which this one is and always has been.
>edit - I mean multi-denominational, secular in an official way. The reality on the ground quite different. Fethard-On-Sea etc...

Mike.

and yes it sounds Godawful....!

Victor

Any chance of "yes" and "no" being added to the poll?

Actually they definitely do include some coverage of masses and prayer meetings from the Church of Ireland, Presbytarians, etc. Presumably they will include some Muslim content in future.

TomF

I like hearing the Angelus bells whether rang on an old cow-bell sounding bell from the parish church about a mile from our house or on RTE radio or television. Furthermore, I like to say the Angelus prayers and I think they help to refocus on what is important in life. I think RTE does a service in playing the bells.

Is it true the bells are being rung in the church in the Dublin Castle grounds? Is that a Catholic church or a CoI Church?

Victor

Originally posted by TomF
Is it true the bells are being rung in the church in the Dublin Castle grounds? Is that a Catholic church or a CoI Church?

It's possibly a non-denominational private chapel.

bonkey

Originally posted by Victor
Any chance of "yes" and "no" being added to the poll?

Yes.

jc

bugler

Originally posted by dathi1
Would I ask the Imam to shut up for 5 times a day from his minaret in Turkey whilst I'm there in respect to other traditions......hell no. Turkey is a secular state btw.

Not the same thing. Maybe you could compare the call to prayers to the ringing of the church bell, but not to the daily airing of the angelus on national, state owned TV. And Turkey is more of a military state really. I'm Irish and was born/raised a catholic. I'd personally rather it were taken off. If I want to pray I will, I don't think it's the business of the national TV station to encourage me.

The Beer Baron

Actually, Ireland IS still a predominantly Christian (Catholic in fact) country.

Dang- I was sure I actually addressed this.
Ok- point taken, Ireland is, on paper, a predominantly Catholic country. But this is only because we were raised that way.
But take the ratio of practicing Catholics for a minute. Or those, like me, that were raised in a half-assed Catholic way say. (ah shur you gotta go ta mass! but given no suitible reason why) and couldn't give a crap about what some Pole in a funny hat has to say. Those that have been horrifed by the church's scandels of late, those who have turned to alternative religions...

Thank you Meh- almost 20,000 Muslims as of 2002.
That's sure to increase.

138,264 people meanwhile, claiming to be of no distinct religion.
It's not in the Irish mentality to make such a claim so I'm going to assume it's more.


Ireland is changing, even rural Ireland- we're becoming more and more ethnically diverse. It's no longer right for us to force our so called beliefs (that 99% of us disregard anyways) down the throats of others. If we do we might as well declare ourselves a DeValeran Fundamentalist state and be done with it.

I dont give a toss if some garment factory in Antrim...

hehe- indeed Mike.
I wish RTE would have a reappraisal as to what constitutes news or, at the very least they should split it between regional, national and international. There's some bastard getting paid 6 times more money than I am to stand outside taking footage of the High Court all day.
Could we please get something more of an INTERNATIONAL viewpoint PLEEEEASE?!

sceptre

Originally posted by The Beer Baron
and couldn't give a crap about what some Pole in a funny hat has to say

Pffft, kids:D

When the rest of were small it was an Italian in (or even under) a funny hat.

Originally posted by The Beer Baron
Instead of asinine "Prayers at Bedtime" and the raucous clamour of the Angelas RTE should either realise this, or, bring so religiously conscious as they are call Muslims to prayer showing pictures of Irish Muslims facing Mecca in the middle of St Stephens Green, or how about prayertime for the Jews, Hindus, Buddists, Bahais, Mormons...

I think if you were to ask a devout muslim cleric, their opinion, you might find that , priority wise there are a lot of things more to their distaste on RTE than the Angelus, that they would wish removed.
I would guess that you would not approve of their choices.

It's only Bells for less than a minute, now with a video sequence of people, some in prayer, some in contemplation, with some church imagery rather than a specifically Catholic Holy picture, like it used to be.
I think it's quite nice and peacefull actually ( when the volume isn't up too high ) I don't see or hear it that often or set the video to record it ( ) but I'd miss it , if it wasn't there.

mm

Zombrex

The angelus pisses me off no end, but at the same time I think there is still a large audience for it.

Don't forget RTE is a state TV station, and as such is responsible for producing "shows" (if the Angelus could be called that) that are for the wide general population. I think there is a large enough viewing audience that apprecate the angelus.

It is all about giving the majority of viewers what they want.

If on the other hand, it turned out that 80% of view flipped over to MTV for that minute and then back, I think it would be hard for RTE to defend it being on air. When the Catholic people who actually watch it becomes a small minority then I think it should be removed.

Capt'n Midnight

talk of tolerance by people who get upset at a 60 seconds break in programming because it's might upset the 7% of the population that is non-catholic even though 90% of them belong to similar religons..

OK lets imagine it's for catholics only - which channel would those catholics most likely watch ??? - roughly how many religous programs are show on Net2 / TV3 ???

It's a piece of heritage - no one else does this...

Let's ban the Angelus - hey let's ban all programming that might offend a small minority of the population
No Sex / No Violence / Certain political parties banned etc. etc.
you end up with lowest common denominator TV without the excitement - back to day-time TV quizes and talk shows...

If you were in a muslim country you might be vaguely aware of thier calls to prayer troughout the day

If you wanted fairness and evenness then there should be a campaign to bring in the Angleus in at 12am / 12pm and 6am as well and then get the muslim calls to the faithfull etc. etc.


PS. anyone remember the "Blizzard of Odd" take on the Angelus...

Bottom line - if you can't stand it put the kettle on or change the channel ...

PPS. was in Rome last year and saw the originals of the paintings they used to use. Some were smaller than you'd think they'd be.

Illkillya

"RTE should realise that Ireland is now a multi-cultural, multi-denominational country." Why would this make it any less appropriate to spend 1 minute a day on the Angelus? I agree with the statement, but that does not mean that I think it is time to get rid of the Angelus.

The Beer Baron

When the rest of were small it was an Italian in (or even under) a funny hat.

Blimey Sceptre! There were Popes b4 JP2?
I knew there were a few in the history books but I seem to be of the belief that JP2 will be around forever.

I think if you were to ask a devout muslim cleric, their opinion, you might find that , priority wise there are a lot of things more to their distaste on RTE than the Angelus,

Well, let's be honest here, any devout cleric would balk at what's on TV no matter what chanell no matter what religion.
RTE, in my lifetime has become relativly risque compared to what it used to be like.
Remember all the **** kicked up by parents of Home and a piece of **** Away? Dear Arthur....

Yeah. Perhaps they could bring in an Islamic-friendly version of Mailbag- "Dear Akbar, ..."

Just making a point- I doubt they really care.
But I think RTE should reflect the country as it is.
Not what it would like it to be.

PS. anyone remember the "Blizzard of Odd" take on the Angelus...

Sure did Cap- the drum'n'bass Angelus with JC in the baseball bat cracked me up no end.

bloggs

Hmm perhaps im different to other people, but in my house, there is a little device with numbered buttons on it. I think it's called a remote control, it seems to replace anything i find offencive on the box with more calming programming. :rolleyes:

Capt'n Midnight

[quooote Regardless of that though, our national broadcasting country should be impartial and not concentrate so purely on one religion, what with The Angelus, A Prayer At Bedtime, Would You Believe, etc. getting air time. ]

Actually in case you havn't noticed other christian religones are featured in these spots - and don't tellme you've never seen the Rabbi on for the Jewish new year...

It's the old point of "your argument is wrong, your facts are tosh, I disagree with you totally, but I'll defend your right to continue speaking"

This is probably one of the few cases where the phrase of "the wishes of the silent majority" has any meaning especially when weighed up against the minor inconvienence it causes.

In a population of 4m then Pro rata the 20,000 Muslims would be entitled to 0.3 seconds.. Funnily enough it also takes 300ms to blink your eyes...

============================================

How about geting rid of pseudo-religous programs "kissed by an angel" etc....

And can anyone explain to me about the "God Channel" - that NTL were touting as an extra channel recently .....

The Beer Baron

It's the old point of "your argument is wrong, your facts are tosh, I disagree with you totally, but I'll defend your right to continue speaking"

You mean me or in general?

How about geting rid of pseudo-religous programs "kissed by an angel" etc....

blarrk! yeah.
Makes me puke.

Syth

Aren't RTE not supposed to take advertising for religious/political motives (except around elections)? I remember something a while back about them turning down some religious ad... Anyway, they show the angelus, yet they can't shw religious ads?! Welcome to Ireland!

Seriously though, I'm opposed to my money (well...) going to promote some religion just because more then 50% of the people think they're in that religion. It'd be like saying they're only going to promote Fianna Fail, just coz the majority of the people support(ed) them.

sceptre

Originally posted by Capt'n Midnight
And can anyone explain to me about the "God Channel" - that NTL were touting as an extra channel recently .....

Can't explain it but it's an FTA channel on Astra 2 and one of the high 600s on Sky. There's also a GOD2 channel, Wonderful Channel, Revelation, TBN Europe and Christian channel in the same vein. Not really my cup of tea (lots of heavy breathing evangelists on the last one (and before someone castigates me for saying that, I've just checked and there's one on right now doing the heavy breathing and ejaculating exaltations)). Can;t comment on the contents - I only find religion interesting from an antropological and historical point of view.

Lennoxschips

Yes, RTÉ should get rid of the angelus. They can keep the scenery/people in the picture, but they could replace the sound with something else, like a quiet recital of Irish poetry, the sounds of birds/rivers a traditional song played quietly etc. This way there could be something quiet on at six o'clock and my granny could continue to say her prayers at six o'clock, but we wouldn't all have to be bombarded with Roman Catholiscism.

tomaskennedy

I find it interesting that the people who are arguing for a more tolerant ireland are so intolerant about keeping the angelus. It;s on one radio station out of dozens, and one tv channel out of many.

The way to show tolerance to other faiths and beliefs is not by showing intolerance towards christians.

I'm not Roman catholic, but I believe that the sounding of the angelus bell is an important reminder to us to pray.

Capt'n Midnight

RE: It's the old point of "your argument is wrong, your facts are tosh, I disagree with you totally, but I'll defend your right to continue speaking"

It's meant as a General statement - not directed at anyone or any topic..

ie. you have the right to be wrong ...

If you stand on a soapbox and Demand that X or Y be done, then you must automatically allow others to stand on thier soap boxes to demand that X and Y not be done.

So any argument that the Angelus should be blocked because it would offend people would be blocked by the fact that it's removal would also upset people.

And it's not forced down your throat - you can change the channel - also it represents very good value for license payers - I defy you to find any other series that has such ratings for so long on such a low budget...


PS. they'd only replace it with Ads or imported soap/sitcom so it's not as if you are missing anything...

Cork

The Angelus? I see absolutely nothing wrong it. RTE shows enough ads and sponsored programmes.

Its nice to have a minute from our commercial public service TV provider.

The Beer Baron

ahrite- sorry 'bout the misunderstanding Cap.

Sparks

Originally posted by Cork
The Angelus? I see absolutely nothing wrong it. RTE shows enough ads and sponsored programmes.

Yeah, but the RC church doesn't pay for it.
Plus, the angelus is rung from the bells in Dublin Castle too.
Disestablishmentarianism was a good idea in the 1800s and it's a good idea today...