New Forum [Horse Racing]

PH01

Finally figured out where to put this.

A couple of days ago Dubaim posted a suggestion in the 'Sports|Sports' forum about a new forum for Horse Racing. I also think it's a good idea.

What do you think?

scojones

excellent idea

Sposs

What would it be for? exchanging tips?

PH01

Originally posted by Sposs
What would it be for? exchanging tips?

Exchanging tips? Yeah sure, that of course would be one of the main reasons. And isn't it one of main things that come up in conversation?

But I'd imagine the forum would be there for other Horse Racing related topics like which race course is the best and why, who are the new and upcoming Irish trainers and where do you think Shergar is buried?

There's load to talk about in Horse Racing and not just gambling.

BuffyBot

The only thing is it will be targetted by a lot of scammers as witnessed on other racing boards. It would need careful watching

Sposs

Originally posted by PH01

There's load to talk about in Horse Racing and not just gambling.

Gambling is Horse Racing,it wouldn't exist without it,and to be honest i really don't think there that many people who want to discuss up and coming trainers and such.

Yavvy

I would be interested in this fourm

Victor

Can we change the title to just "Racing" to include pig and ostrich racing?

sceptre

Originally posted by PH01
and where do you think Shergar is buried?

Garden of Remembrance of course. No-one would think of looking there.

Like BuffyBot said, if this goes ahead you'd want some tight moderation (from people who know something about racing big doggies of course. And, er pigs). It's something that seems to attract quite some bit of muppetry.


I've shag-all interest in it myself to be honest, though I've been seen at the new Cork dog track a few times, brought there by this hot chick that I've been seen out in public with

Hobart

Excelent idea. I actually do some work for the Irish Field and think that a board of this nature would/could contain a lot more than tips. Horse Racing is a fantastic and popular sport (Proabably on a par with Soccer in this country) and I think a board dedicated to it would be justified.

2 Thumbs up from me.

Shamo

Great idea, another 2 thumbs up

PH01

Originally posted by Sposs
Gambling is Horse Racing,it wouldn't exist without it,and to be honest i really don't think there that many people who want to discuss up and coming trainers and such.

Gambling is a major element to Racing but what isn't. And horse racing would survive without gambling be it in a smaller way.

But hey lets not get on our high horses here and start debating the virtues of gambling. Everything in moderation and all that, and gambling on horses is jolly good fun!

Runfree

Hmmm I really like idea. Im quite into the Horse racing myself. Won myself 40 euros yesterday.

And the sister trains them so I can get very good tips.

RunFree

PH01

Originally posted by Runfree
Hmmm I really like idea. Im quite into the Horse racing myself. Won myself 40 euros yesterday.

And the sister trains them so I can get very good tips.

RunFree

Runfree, you're the kinda person a forum like this need. Someone with connections. Someone who we can sponge off, sorry I mean, someone who'll tell all about how great it is to have a sister who trains horses in Ireland.

Was that at Clonmel? And to win that €40 what was stake? And a good win yesterday for Allineedisamiracle who came in at 12/1. I didn't have anything on her myself but had a 'funny feeling' that she would win.

Runfree

Originally posted by PH01
Runfree, you're the kinda person a forum like this need. Someone with connections. Someone who we can sponge off, sorry I mean, someone who'll tell all about how great it is to have a sister who trains horses in Ireland.

Was that at Clonmel? And to win that €40 what was stake? And a good win yesterday for Allineedisamiracle who came in at 12/1. I didn't have anything on her myself but had a 'funny feeling' that she would win.

Thanks and you can spunge of me anytime but I will not be held responsible if you loose money.

And it was clonmel. True Commotion came 3rd.
5 euro EW. 18:35 at 10/1.

But I want this forum anyway. I love horses and the racing that comes with it.

Cheers, RunFree

anyway back to work for me. Talk to you l8r.

Repli

If the primary use of this board is going to be giving tips.. I'd be highly opposed to the forum.. Basically because no tip is 100% - I've seen everything from 3 horse races with the 2 favourites falling leaving a 66/1 shot winning the race, 1/9 and other odds-on shots coming last and heavily backed tips coming last.

I worked in Ladbrokes for the summer and whether you like it or not, the bookies always win. I've seen people win €500 and €600 and lose it within minutes. The worst case being a man losing €2000 on a single bet backing a tip he got. Gambling is a disgusting habit - I wouldn't recommend anyone getting into it and I think the creation of this board would encourage it somehow.

Having said that I've learned quite a lot about horse and greyhound racing in the few months I worked there and agree it can be quite an interesting sport at times. And if this forum was actually going to involve the discussion of breeding/trainers/jockeys/handicapping/racecourses it might prove to be an interesting forum. Although anything that even slightly encourages gambling is a big no-no in my opinion.

DeVore

I understand that gambling is an emotive topic but much as I dont like (some) Christians because of the way they conduct themselves, I still think they (as a group) deserve the right to be able to converse... its not always personal favouritism that rules things in and out (though in some cases it is.... cf: Scientologists!)

I think a forum on the industry of racing would be a good thing but I'm not going to start allowing tips and betting related stuff to creep in...

What are "scammers" and what do they do?

DeV.

Hobart

Hmmm. A racing board without Tips. Don't think it would work. A bit like haveing a Holiday board and not being able to reccomend destinations. Look betting, like mastrabation, is in the hand of the beholder one can talk about it for years put one does not have to act upon it. More of a self control thing.
As for scammers. What I think is meant is this:

A fancied horse is running in a two horse race and in odds on. So a scammer tips the non-fancied horse so as the price of the fancied horse will go back out in order to maximise on the return for the scammer (who had the fancied horse backed all along).

Anyhow most people that have an interest in racing would not take a tip to save their life.

Repli

Originally posted by DeVore
I think a forum on the industry of racing would be a good thing but I'm not going to start allowing tips and betting related stuff to creep in...

It's a catch-22 situation there because gambling is the core of the horseracing industry..

Originally posted by DeVore
What are "scammers" and what do they do?

In a web forum context I can't see how it's possible.. Within the bookies there are hundreds of tricks and scams going on.. For example placing bets on races after they've gone off.. to stealing back prices.. I could go on - gambling attracts a lot of scumbags you see.. I'm curious myself about how it's done through web forums.. maybe BuffyBot could explain what it is or give us an example of an occurrence of it

Repli

Originally posted by Hobart
A fancied horse is running in a two horse race and in odds on. So a scammer tips the non-fancied horse so as the price of the fancied horse will go back out in order to maximise on the return for the scammer (who had the fancied horse backed all along).

I don't see how that would be a problem on boards.. Literally thousands of bets would have to be placed on the outsider to change the price slightly..

Hobart

Originally posted by Repli
I don't see how that would be a problem on boards.. Literally thousands of bets would have to be placed on the outsider to change the price slightly..

Not true at all.

Depends on the meeting, odds, bookie, amount of money wagered by the scammer etc (Not all races are run in Ascot or Cheltenham you know) .... I was asked for an example and I gave one.

dubaim

As it was me who started all this off, are we then going to get a forum for racing?

Yes, betting is intrinsically linked but is only a part of a large industry, there are many other issues.

Previous comments re its a dangerous mugs game or some such, probably is when you look at the typical betting shop punter. Not surprised you feel that way after working there during the summer, but you are very wrong with comments such as the bookmaker always wins (not on horse racing,witness all the dross you now get in shops, helping bookie profits, numbers games, virtual racing etc).

It's now estimated that about 10% of punters are now making a profit on racing, whereas before the reduction in tax (nil now in the UK, and on phone accounts) plus the advent of exchanges on the net, it was probably only about 2% - withough banging my own drum, I speak from experience.

Now, are we getting a separate thread, for what is probably the most popular spectator sport in this country, or not?

Hobart

Nice attitude mate. That'll get you listened to. Keep up the good work.

Muppet:(

Runfree

Ok so the forum doesn't need to have to be for gambling. But saying that it will probably come up on the forum in discussion.

For example discussion of upcoming horses in training. Things that could be said is:

Watch out for this one with the bookies.
Its a possible winner.

Such expressions might come across to people as a tip. Now I am very fond of Horse racing but I for one would not encourage people to take such expression in a way that they put all their money on a horse and loose it because maybe the ground was to soft for that horse and couldn't get a rhythem going.

But things like that could be discussed and it could be a good forum if managed well.

Horses, trainers, jockeys and training guides can be discussed. Also fees and items like this could be discussed.

RunFree

Repli

Originally posted by dubaim
It's now estimated that about 10% of punters are now making a profit on racing, whereas before the reduction in tax (nil now in the UK, and on phone accounts) plus the advent of exchanges on the net, it was probably only about 2% - withough banging my own drum, I speak from experience.

Can you tell me what source you got that 10% from.. I think it's very inaccurate.. The bookies keep a record of every bet from regular customers (they are called monitored customers) to check if that particular customer is making a profit.. They are done weekly/monthly and yearly.. Now of course some punters will make a profit in the week, maybe even the month, but I can assure you if they are betting regularly they will not make a profit in the long run 99.9% of the time. In the shop I worked in there was roughly 25 monitored customers.. .. not ONE of the monitored customers had ever made a profit on their yearly sheet.. It's a fools game - agreeably though there are some people who bet on sports (not nearly as frequently as those who bet on horses) and those people make a profit a lot of the time..

but you are very wrong with comments such as the bookmaker always wins (not on horse racing,witness all the dross you now get in shops, helping bookie profits, numbers games, virtual racing etc).

Agree with you there.. but maybe only 1 in every 10 bets is a speciality bet (sport, virtual horses/dogs, events, etc - excluding lotto) but these bets such as lotto/sport tend to pay out a LOT more than regular bets so it balances out imo.

Runfree

I know you are having an intresting discussion here lads but really do you want the forum or don't you.

Horse racing isn't all about gambling offcoarse but it is a certain aspect of racing and maybe yes small tips can be given but I dont support it.

Actually scrap that. no gambling but it is a good place to discuss other horseracing matters.

RunFree

Hobart

Repli: you need to take your blinkers off (Pun intended). If the regular punter lost his stake 999 times out of 1000, then there would be no such thing as a regular punter. Don't base your 'facts' on a summers experience in a bookmakers. Not one bookie mad a profit at Cheltenham this year. Not one. I base that on tote betting btw.There are plenty of professional horse racing gamblers out there, a lot of them rich and a lot of them broke. But 1 in 1000? Come on now.

Hobart

Originally posted by Runfree
I know you are having an intresting discussion here lads but really do you want the forum or don't you.

Horse racing isn't all about gambling offcoarse but it is a certain aspect of racing and maybe yes small tips can be given but I dont support it.

Actually scrap that. no gambling but it is a good place to discuss other horseracing matters.

RunFree

The discussion is about the merits and content of the proposed board. Lets not cloud the issue by posting wildly inaccurate 'facts'. All issues should be discussed. And Tips do not equal gambling.

Runfree

Originally posted by Hobart
And Tips do not equal gambling.

Now thats an intresting fact as I do agree with you there.

Just because you think a horse might do well doesn't mean that you want some stranger to bet his lifesavings on the horse.

But the temptation is there however to put money on the horse.

dubaim

I thought it was an industry estimation due mainly to the reduction in tax percentages, the signifianct increase in information out there (ratings/form analysis/the handful of good tipster out there, charging for their services (against the majortiy who are fairly hopeless), as well as the advent of the betting exchanges over the last 2/3 years, with enhanced odds, in excess of those priced up by the major firms.

You are reffering only to punters coming into the shops, yes, I agree they are going to lose, though they may have winning days/weeks/months.

Even in my small circle of friends/colleagues of similar persuasion I have those who are well behind but also more and more making it pay - we may all be winning less than those who are losing overall, but in profit we are - due to disciplined wagering. Probably the most important word is that, DISCIPLINE. I keep precise records of every investment as well, as that what I deem it to be, in many ways no different to investing on the stock market.

I once worked in a shop as well, and can only agree with your comments but for those such as me the withdrawal/lowering of tax was the turning point. Yes, a small profit in relation to my turnover, which use to mostly get eaten by the tax.

I think we've started a race forum already Yippee!!

PH01

Some very good insight there from Repli and a lot of those points would be very welcome in a Horse Racing forum - and a good eye opener to those who gamble. And a forum would be a great place to trash these points out.

And on gambling it's like what I said before, and like with most things, it's OK in moderation.
And if the forum turns into a mostly a tips forum then so be it, as in a forum you'll have the opportunity to let that 'tipster' know that they were wrong (or something stronger).

I'm for a Horse Racing forum warts and all.