The Twin Towers

mr_angry · 14-09-2003 12:48pm

Well, if you are wrong, then thats exactly what you should do. Diffciult concept to grasp, I know, but there you go.

Bonkey, you are the f*cking MAN! Are you on a hot streak today, or what? I'm voting you into power after the next armed coup!

I'm sorry to disagree (strongly) with Geronimo twice in the space of 5 minutes, but frankly - what the hell are you on about? I never thought I'd completely agree with Eomer, but he's right when he says this is a load of self-congratulory bullsh*t.

When has armed response to terrorism EVER worked? As a resectible debater, if you disagree with this point, you should disprove it with some relevant examples. Have you done so? Not in the slightest! You've just waded in, and tried to shout everyone down with your own opinions, dismissing others at will.

So, I challenge you - when has armed response to terrorism ever worked? Show me some examples! Lebannon? Israel? Algeria? Northern Ireland? Not as far as I can see. And I don't forsee the US having any greater success (Note: For example, see attacks in Saudi Arabia and on the UN headquaters in Baghdad).

We are in the midst of a cycle of violence. If the western world really had any strong leaders, one of them would stand up and try to restore some common sense to the situation. Unfortunately for us, and some 10,000 civilian casualties in the middle east, most of them seem as hasty as Geronimo to reach for the gun, and just hit back.

mr_angry · 14-09-2003 12:53pm

Does this remind anyone of Romeo & Juliet, by the way? Feuding houses, a cycle of violence, etc, etc? If only one of George W. Bush's drunken neices were to have a fling with Bin Laden's son or something...

Maybe not.

Éomer of Rohan · 14-09-2003 7:15pm

Quoted from Mr Angry 4
Does this remind anyone of Romeo & Juliet, by the way? Feuding houses, a cycle of violence, etc, etc? If only one of George W. Bush's drunken neices were to have a fling with Bin Laden's son or something...

Er...no.

Quoted from Mr Angry 4
I never thought I'd completely agree with Eomer, but he's right when he says this is a load of self-congratulory bullsh*t.

Reminds me of the old Oscar Wilde quote...

Quoted from Mr Angry 4
If the western world really had any strong leaders, one of them would stand up and try to restore some common sense to the situation

Let's be fair now, a few of the liberals made a piffling attempt, one by resigning as leader of the UK house of commons.

Vader · 14-09-2003 10:12pm

I'm a pro republican(NI not USA) anti american. what im about to say is purly in the interest of stimulating debate.

Opressing terrorism worked for the USA in central and south america as well as in the pacific. It may not have been right but has lead to a complete american hegemony in those regions for over 100 yrs.

The true essence of america is individualism = that the rights of the person out weigh the rights of the people. Its riddled all over the constition and its what makes capatolism and entrepenureship work!

America was the first facist country, remember Roosevelt 1900 talk softly and carry a big stick. Of course they dont call it facism anymore because of the association people have with facism and hitler. A key part of facism is A) Nationalism and

that there is no right or wrong only strong and weak. Combine these and you have a totally justified war.

Remember truth is beauty, beauty truth and that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Americans believe what they have been brought up to accept as the way the world works. For thrm this is truth. I'm sure Bush has read Orwell's 1984, he just got the wrong idea from it.

Its more of a dream than a warning for him*genuine feeling of despair:(

Éomer of Rohan · 14-09-2003 11:43pm

Quoted from Vader
Remember truth is beauty, beauty truth and that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Americans believe what they have been brought up to accept as the way the world works. For thrm this is truth. I'm sure Bush has read Orwell's 1984, he just got the wrong idea from it

Yeah he took it as the Republican Party manifesto.

Quoted from Vader
Opressing terrorism worked for the USA in central and south america as well as in the pacific. It may not have been right but has lead to a complete american hegemony in those regions for over 100 yrs

America didn't oppress terrorism in Central and South America, America bought the terrorists and then used them to kill the legal governments. The Monroe Doctrine cast in stone the attitude that America set almost two hundred years ago when they first invaded parts of Central America - that the USA takes precedence - of course this is at the expense of freedom, democracy and peace in Central and South America but believe me, it is only a matter of time before the poor and downtrodden people of places like the newly poverty stricken Argentina turn and look northwards to see the cause of their misery - and look right to Chile and see more misery caused by the same people - and then see the results that Mexicans can get when they take measures without the consent of their government - blood will flow. Brazil is already on the brink with the partial renationalisation of the water supply after millions protested against the exorbitant amounts that the (guess what nationality) MNE in charge of certain regions charged.

bonkey · 15-09-2003 11:56am

Originally posted by Turnip
So both the firefighters and the ordinary working people they died trying to save basically got what was coming to them?

No, I think they got what their government was - in my opinion - at least partly responsible for inflicting on them.

They weren't fascist scum like Italians or Germans (people who got off far too lightly in ww2 imo), just ordinary decent people.

I'd strongly suggest that you drop - and apologise for - the racism, or offer some proof that every single Italian and German are "facist scum" before I decide I've had enough of your inability to keep a civil tongue during discussions.

The rules are clear about attacking other posters, and its pretty clear to anyone reading these forums regularly who you are (constantly) having a go at.

Now drop your crusade of innuendo-based insults from this forum before I drop you.

jc

ringzer · 15-09-2003 3:28pm

The US is by far he biggest contributor of foreign aid to Developing Countries in the world.

Originally posted by sovtek
Actually %40 goes to that impoverished, third world country known as Israel....and most of that is in the form of military aid for "defense" (which then gets used against innocent civilians and occupational resistance, and then some gets sold to China).
Furthermore IIRC it's not in the top ten (with regards to GNP) and well behind a few European countries. Originally posted by ReefBreak

Just two observations on these points:

1. USA is the largest economy in the world, so it follows that it can afford the largest amount of foreign aid. I'm curious as to what the % of GDP is foreign aid or per capita is.

2. If 40% is in military aid, isnt most of the money coming back to the USA in the form of jobs and revenue to arms companies? Or at least creating these jobs to enable this "foreign aid"

Éomer of Rohan · 16-09-2003 9:52am

Quoted from ringzer
1. USA is the largest economy in the world, so it follows that it can afford the largest amount of foreign aid. I'm curious as to what the % of GDP is foreign aid or per capita is

In %GDP aid, the USA is the lowest of the top twenty one developed nations while the scandinavian nations top the chart, with only two of all nations in the wolrd exceeding their UN duties with regards to aid.

Quoted from ringzer
2. If 40% is in military aid, isnt most of the money coming back to the USA in the form of jobs and revenue to arms companies? Or at least creating these jobs to enable this "foreign aid'

Correct.

Vader · 16-09-2003 9:35pm

just to focus on the war on terrorism. If you wont negotiate with terrorists and you cant fight what you cant see, how does the US plan to win the war? I would really like american replies si vous plait.

The Beer Baron · 18-09-2003 11:17am

just to focus on the war on terrorism. If you wont negotiate with terrorists and you cant fight what you cant see, how does the US plan to win the war?

You forget Vader that America has GOD on their side.
And God sees everything!

oooooh saaaay caaan you seeeeee....

bonkey · 18-09-2003 11:52am

Originally posted by The Beer Baron
oooooh saaaay caaan you seeeeee....

Come on....

There's no need to go disrespecting their national anthem.

(Having said that, I agree completely with the point you're making)

jc

The Beer Baron · 18-09-2003 12:12pm

As I music lover I must protest- and those lyrics...

Well in fairness all national anthems are crap. (Canada's one is even worse)
Except for some of the South American ones that sound like porn movie soundtracks.

Éomer of Rohan · 18-09-2003 10:02pm

I'm going to agree here - La Internationale is painful. The Irish anthem ain't bad - it's nice to whistle, though god forbid you do that up where I live lol.

I say we should adopt a Christy Moore song as our anthem!

The Beer Baron · 19-09-2003 1:40pm

The Irish anthem ain't bad - it's nice to whistle, though god forbid you do that up where I live lol.

heh

I say we should adopt a Christy Moore song as our anthem!

Nah- everyone knows Christy's gone to **** since he went dry.
I think Talking Heads would be much a more fitting, or at the very least it could be the theme to Fianna Fáil's next campaign...

anna 1...anna 2...anna 3...

We're on the roooooad to nooowhaaaaarree...!

Vader · 19-09-2003 7:11pm

how about tin lizzy, the boys are back in town.
We could adopt it after reunification and then everyone would be happy:D

The Beer Baron · 19-09-2003 8:27pm

hehe

The Twin Towers

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