Is society as screwed as it's construed to be?

Mystic Fibrosis

We all know the spiel about corruption in politcs, and societal inequality, etc, blah blah blah. But to you, does society seem as doomed as the mass media say it is? (which is quite ironic...)

Think about it, I mean, for such a "bad" system we've got here, it seems to be pretty self-sustaining. But on the other hand, maybe I'm just believing what I hear....

mentalimplosion

when more than ninety percent of the world's wealth is owned by one percent of the people, i think we're screwed

when secretaries of the environment are former oil chieftains, i think we're screwed

when we purposely screw the third world countries, rape them of their commoditites and leave them dying in the hot african sun, i think we're screwed

when our own government thinks that new toy plane for bertie is more important than the lives of starving homeless people, i think we're screwed.

when the world's richest, most powerful country is morphing into an Orwellian state, i think we're screwed.


just a couple of thoughts.

Crash

Er, ***, no we arent.

as the old saying goes no news is good news, as invariably any news is gonna be bad media coverage. The ratio of good media coverage to bad coverage would be at LEAST 1:10 if not magnitudes higher. its the same way that all you hear about dublin at night are muggings, stabbings etc. however i find dublin city/suburb areas Very peaceful if you're a wee bit careful. its going to **** but not half as bad as its made out to be.

Then again, **** it, i'm the eternal optimist. eternal Paranoid optimist....not quite sure how that works...


Neil

Spenguin

I ask anyone who posts in this thread complaining about all the problems in the world if they are going to do anything about it? Yeah, we have a society that works partly by doing things that will lead to its own demise, but if we just complain about it we'll just be wasting the small amount of time we have left. If you do something about it, good for you. But things are getting better, they have started to use cars fueled by hydrogen and I hear the holes in the ozone layer are getting smaller!
I don't think we should complain about our society, which in my opinion, has had a lot of progress over the last... while.

mentalimplosion

alison, you know me. c'mon, i spent a good deal of time in ctyi shouting at people for using animal tested products or wearing slave-labour produced clothes or thinking that deep down maybe george bush ain't so bad or for thinking that we in the first world deserve yet more rriches and glory instead of giving a little to the people in all the countries that have sub-standard housing, all the people who don't have running/clean water, food, clothing etc. i spend half of life figuring out schmemes to get the world out of this hole we're digging

Aliminator

good luck to ya.. seriously.
i'll be amazed if ur not 'silenced' within 5years.

Spenguin

I like digging holes. I know you. George Bush was born in Texas.

mentalimplosion

thank you, that's not the first time i've been warned about the ''silencings''. oh, since this seems like an appropriate time, pluggity plug plug for my email newsletter 'the whiner'. if there's something you wanna whine about write it down and email me etc.

Spenguin

I don't think just shouting at people will help our environment that much, I doubt that they'll care enough to listen to you ana. Maybe you should put more than just complaints in your thingy.

Mystic Fibrosis

Nah, they just dont care. Period.

Dalamar

Yes, it's quite screwed. The world trade talks are basicly a facade for countries trying to screw more money from each other by threats or bribes, and as always, third world country's lose out.

Don't believe me? Why is that all coffee we can get is made by countries in the economic north?

http://www.projectcensored.org/publications/2004/4.html

America's method for dealing with terrorists. They only started this because they (the terrorists) only crime was to give them a swift old-fasioned kick in the nads. Or in this case, commerical centre.

I wonder why? Is it due to fact america has it's big fat ass stuck in the middle east for quite some time? And a lot of other countries aswell.<sarcasm>And they certainly don't have plans for all that oil</sarcasm>

http://www.projectcensored.org/publications/2004/1.html

Ireland's society is screwed as well, considering the amount of abuse people can get for no apperent reason.

And the fact a lot of the youth seem to only care about getting hammered on cheap beer as often as possible.

Mystic Fibrosis

Originally posted by Dalamar


And the fact a lot of the youth seem to only care about getting hammered on cheap beer as often as possible.

It's not even funny how infuriating I find that. It's not even remotely entertaining.

lordsippa

I find that todays youths tend to be far too whingey and bitch about complete crap far too often.

<troll> :ninja:

tibilt

just curious...you actually think that complaining, shouting about using animal testing products and whatnot is 'doing something' about anything?that is self-righteous pretentious bull****.and dont give me any bull about whether i do anything for the ****ing enviorment. this isnt a ****ing popularity contest, this is Our society. this is where we have to live. this is out life. if we dont like it, its up to us to change it. and complaining about it changes nothing. its a cop-out. and telling other people they should do something about it(i.e. stop using animal testing) is a self-righteous cop-out. and i dont ****ing care whether you use animal tested products or not. not using the products is not going to stop the testing. its just going to give you that pathetic feeling of satisfaction for 'doing the right thing' when your warped sense of values actually has no idea what the right thing is anymore. you got something against animal testing, join the protests. better still, go destroy a lab, that will make you a hero. and thats all you want isnt it? to be seen as a hero. to be seen as a do-gooder.try being who you are. **** society and make what You want of life. the right thing is whatever you want it to be.

Havelock

Tibilt: The 100th Monkey, go look it up.
What gives you the right to attack others actions, not everyone is an activist, some believe in law and order so try to change throught education, the fact that you and I are aware of the terrible things in the world doesn't mean everyone else does. You may be surprized at the ignorance of important issues by the mass of the population. They know more about the actors in their favourite TV shows than the government in their country and they know even less about world affairs. So if you can inform and educate, you are still doing something. And you don't do it to feel better about your self or see your self in a better light, most do good for the sake of good. Not all actions are self interested.

On the orginala topic of the thread, I think there is a lot of true evil in this world, people and organisations, who know right from wrong, the pros and cons, weight them up and chose what ever makes them gain the most and be damned everyone else. They are usally in possistions of power as they ruthless and use any means to seceed while better people say at lower levels of autority.
But there is also alot of good in the world, people who become teachers, doctors and those who try to make the world a better place.
A good primary school teacher, impacts the development of 30 small people a year at least, those 30 children may develop into 30 good people, and only a small amount will turn bad in adolence and adulthood. So the good out weights the bad.

Yes the world does seem very messed up at the moment, a massive military superpower, faces corrupt governments and bickering interntional neighbours, WMD's are easily home built, violence is rampant in the world and despair grows.
But there is no superwar yet, for all the easy and capeablity to make weapons of mass distruction, there is no daily annilaltions, the police here still don't need to normally carry firearms, people still laugh and sing to them selves.
There is love in world, their is spirt and hope and I think it lives in everyone, even those who make the bad choices, they are human and venrable too. Have faith in your selves. I'll never admit it again but I'm choking up here, we can do any thing we want, lets do good.

tibilt

i need look nothing up to make decisions for myself.i was attacking no one. i was merely pointing out obvious hypocrises. of course there is good in the world, but anyone who 'informs' others of the bad is merely transcending the responsibility to alliviate the bad onto another. people who really want to do good do good, they dont tell others how to. and dont use this forum to pick at me again alex.

ll=llannah

i am well versed when it comes to bitching about the state of society. . . i live in america, for god's sake. But complaining about it and forecasting the demise of humankind due to whatever combonation of crap you want to blame it on doesn't get us anywhere, and ....*surprise surprise* ...doesn't fix a goddamn thing. it only makes us pessimistic and will accentuate the fact that we feel like we are living in a world slowly becoming devoid of any humanity.
But there's hope. (And by hope I do not mean maybe if we all kill ourselves we'll get transported to a bubbly world of lollipops and rainbows where there are chocolate swimming pools.) It's life. So we'll find a way. Cause we don't have much of a choice, now do we? Or maybe Neil's optimism has rubbed off on me.
And it's NOT about making OURselves feel better about what we do or don't do, for ffs. Its about giving the whole making-the-world-a-more-decent-place-for-the-kids-to-come thing a whirl. And not necessarily by dedicating your life to working in soup kitchens or knitting hats for homeless people or never eating any meat again in your life or deciding to be Mother Teresa II. But by just trying to be a decent person and putting your two cents in when you feel its needed and fighting for what you believe it, dammit.
And there are plenty of people left who are doing that and will continue to, even if there are ***holes out there who just happen to be in power. There will always be the occasional stupid or deranged person in power. Until we have an accurate way to test intelligence, sanity and morals and prevent them from gaining power if the candidates fail horribly, that is.
The world is a constantly shifting and changing place, because the people in it change. There are bound to be ups and downs. I'm not saying that everything is peachy and that we shouldn't care about important issues, I'm just saying that, for the love of god, if we sit around on our asses predicting the day that the last piece of humanity will crumble, we really WILL be screwed.

Havelock

Tibilt, that was not a personal attack I was pointing out something to you. I thought the 100th Monkey theory may intrest you.
[Troll]
You may wish to look into this victimisation complex of yours.
[/Troll]

Lighten Up a bit.

tibilt

twixgirl is absolutely right, we should have an acurate way to test the sanity, intelligence and whatnot of those in power.but the problem is, all elections that really matter, are won by propeganda.all of the people that could really make a difference in the world are elected by way of a popularity contest, meaning whoever had the most money to pay for the best pr guy, will be president.
but that doesnt have to mean we are screwed. we dont have to overthrow those in power. we dont even have to protest about them. all we can do is be good decent people. live out our lives whatever way makes us happy. that doesnt mean going against the system, or trying to undermine society. it just means making what we want out of what we have, instead of bitching about what we could have if someone did something about it.

Stark

Things are bad but then again things have always been bad in the history of mankind. A look at "gangs of new york" for example will show you that gangs of knackers aren't just a modern phenononem. Wars have always existed. The romans conquered half the world and fought slaves against each other (although they still seem sane on the whole compared to the us). Whatever about society being screwed, it's self-sustaining. Evil will always exist but so will good. If you try to weed out the evil you get an animal farm effect, ie: concepts such as democracy or communism or socialism or capitalism will never give you a society free of evil. You'll still have right-winged politics, the kind people will gasp and say "that's evil" but will still vote for in a secret ballot because they want their lower priced oil and coffee and economic success for the north at the south's expense. Like the simpsons says: "Despite what your concience says, deep down you want a cold hearted republican to rule you like a king"

tibilt

i have no victimization complex havelock. i was simply pointing out that picking at other peoples arguements changes absolutely nothing.

Havelock

If we were to view socity as a pyriamid (spelt wrong I know), with the leaders at the top, the changing of a cap stone doesn't change the base of the building nor does it cause the construction to collapse. We can't only lay the blame on leaders, our own selfishness contributes too. How often do walk past a person who is begging, adn don't give them the money you don't need? There are lots of small things we do that make it a bad place, all i can hope for is that I may do more good things than bad.

tibilt

a beggar lying on the street does not deserve your money. if they truly were in need, they would help themselves. that is human nature. if they were truly dying of hunger, they would work for money. they are using guilt against you because they know the the large amount of people walking by will feel the need to help another.
good cannot exist without evil. if there were no evil, there would be no measure by which we could consider something good. without evil in the world, we would have nothing. they will always be constants of society. all we can do is try and make the good outweigh the evil.

Havelock

They may not deserve it, but it is hardly a reason not to be kind. Ok I agree that some of them are parasidic and worthless lazy bastards, but still. The point I tried to make in my last post is that we are all to blame, not just our government system, or leaders, but we the people.

Stark

You're not supposed to give money to beggers, it only keeps them where they are (it's also one of the dangers of giving too much food aid and not enough development aid to 3rd world countries). You're supposed to support organizations like the Simon community instead. Ex-homeless people will tell you this.

Havelock

You learn something new everyday. I'll just give a tenner to the Simon community instead.

Aliminator

From the fingers of k.oriordan
You're not supposed to give money to beggers, it only keeps them where they are (it's also one of the dangers of giving too much food aid and not enough development aid to 3rd world countries).

yeh, but at least food aid is somewhat usuable. ok, it's normally GM food, stuffed with various new drugs and what not.

however, development aid is a real kick in da balls. here's $50million. but u MUST and CAN ONLY spend it on expensive tech from our country that u can't operate, and will break down in abou 3months cos u can't afford spare parts of skilled labourers.

in theory dev. aid is great. but in practice it rarely works.

at the end of the day, bithcin' does nothing. get to a place of prominence, and then bitch and do something. don't waste ur efforts now. u'll get tired and broken by the time u really COULD do something.

mentalimplosion

Originally posted by tibilt
i have no victimization complex havelock. i was simply pointing out that picking at other peoples arguements changes absolutely nothing.

yet you picked at my argument and give a lecture... the human mind baffles me.

and i know that me shouting doesn't change a whole lot but imo shouting and not being heard is better than not shouting at all... (i was quoted in a tabloid as saying that. *shudder*)

It wasn't me!

Are you saying that homeless people need to be starving and dying beforre they need help? Or are you saying that even if they were starving and dying you wouldn't help them because there's always something they can do for themselves? Either way you come off as a cold-hearted prick! It's almost impossible for homeless people to get money:

1, Because you need an address to draw the dole.
2, Because nowhere will employ a homeless person.

Would you rather they turned to mugging or dealing drugs as opposed to begging, which is harmless.

tibilt

well thats just it isnt it? either way you come off a cold hearted prick. and that is the vicious cycle that Keeps people on the streets. they know that there are people who will give them money even if only to save face in the eyes of society. they dont need to be starving and dying, dont be so dramatic.there is always help. they can go to the simon community, who can organize dole, and if nothing else get them a job. there is always a way to help yourself. things that live off other things are commonly known as parasites.

tibilt

Originally posted by mentalimplosion
yet you picked at my argument and give a lecture... the human mind baffles me.

and i know that me shouting doesn't change a whole lot but imo shouting and not being heard is better than not shouting at all... (i was quoted in a tabloid as saying that. *shudder*)

i did not pick at your arguement. i posed a question based on your arguement.
you are fundamentally right. trying and failing is better than not trying at all. but shouting and complaining gets you nowhere. complaining about society will only serve to fuel your own distaste for it. shouting, whether heard or not, accomplishes nothing.