Is it wrong for Irishmen and women to join foreign Armed Forces!

Qadhafi

Just to note:The DF recently purchased the Javelin anti armour missile. It defeats all main Main Battle Tanks (MBT's) including the Challenger and M1A2 Abram
Javelin

we should purchase enough MBTs to defend our Armoured Personnell Carriers (APC's), but if we went looking (like its ever going to happen) we get them at knock down prices.

Quote
Duh. Obviously it wouldn't be so tough that only 1% could possibly complete it. ......

Well why have an emphasis on the SAS? Why not say sport or the IRISH Army Reserve, but then again, if they seen what the DF has they might not be impressed.

No one is going to invade us, so i wouldnt worry about that. The only dispute is with Iceland about the oil i think. The main threat is overseas on duty where we dont have the proper equipment to defend our troops on the ground from say a charging Armour column

Hobart

Ah! Glad you could spare the time Tulip. Anyhow. Read your post and, as I expected, you failed to address a single issue I posed to you. So I'll try again:

Originally posted by Turnip
Duh. :rolleyes: Obviously it wouldn't be so tough that only 1% could possibly complete it. I'm well aware of how grossly unfit Irish people are. However a little exercise and hard work wouldn't do any harm. Or maybe it would. The country would probably collapse from the shock.

Well then don't reference the SAS. Why don't you say "like a nice walk in the park". Or better still why don't you just think about what your saying before you say it :rolleyes:

ROFL. :ninja: So our DF would do ok in a standing battle as long as the nasty enemy didn't 'cheat' and use air superiority or armour or too much artillery or overwhelming numbers like what happens in the real world.

Where did I say that? I'm just asking you wjere your evidence is for your previous statement that: (And I will repeat it for your benefit)b

The Army would not be able to defend the country in standing battles

and while your mulling that one over you might address the question I had on your expert knowledge of the IDFs' apparent suitability for "peacekeeping roles"??

LOL :cool: Why should anyone believe you have a brother in the cavalry? Prove it.

Now you don't think Im stupid enough to fall for such an obvious troll as that, do you?

This would appear to be the correct place for it.

This and a few other threads you seem content on spamming and dragging down to an idiotic level.

now wheres my ignore button??

Turnip

Originally posted by Qadhafi
Just to note:The DF recently purchased the Javelin anti armour missile. It defeats all main Main Battle Tanks (MBT's) including the Challenger and M1A2 Abram
Javelin

we should purchase enough MBTs to defend our Armoured Personnell Carriers (APC's), but if we went looking (like its ever going to happen) we get them at knock down prices.

Yep they're excellent.

Well why have an emphasis on the SAS? Why not say sport or the IRISH Army Reserve, but then again, if they seen what the DF has they might not be impressed.

I had elements of SAS training in mind, and command structure. Should've been clearer I guess.

No one is going to invade us, so i wouldnt worry about that. The only dispute is with Iceland about the oil i think. The main threat is overseas on duty where we dont have the proper equipment to defend our troops on the ground from say a charging Armour column

Or any kind of aircraft. Or things like cruise missiles.

Turnip

Originally posted by Hobart
Where did I say that? I'm just asking you wjere your evidence is for your previous statement that: (And I will repeat it for your benefit)b

Er, I answered it. The army cannot defend the country in standing battles because we have not got any aircraft or armour support and very little artillery or anti-tank capability. We don't even have a lot of battle ready troops. Do you want to counter my assertion or are you going to shut up now?

This and a few other threads you seem content on spamming and dragging down to an idiotic level.

Being flamed by a nobody...:o

Qadhafi

I had elements of SAS training in mind, and command structure. Should've been clearer I guess.


Why would someone look for a foreign army to learn command structure and elements of Special Forces training. The Army and Army Reserve both use the same command structure - you get an order - you do it. Elements of Special Air Service training, yes you should have been more clearer. I cant see how training in the SAS has particular relevence to a average Irish citizen.

No one is going to invade us, so i wouldnt worry about that. The only dispute is with Iceland about the oil i think. The main threat is overseas on duty where we dont have the proper equipment to defend our troops on the ground from say a charging Armour column[/i)

quote:
Or any kind of aircraft. Or things like cruise missiles.

What kind of aircraft? A 9/11 hijacker? well dont worry the RAF is patrolling our skies.
This is becuase the Irish government thinks we dont need jet fighters. How much would they cost? cheap ones like the L-159 at €3 million each, get 12 and they would last for 20 odd years €36. You can spread the payement over 10 years(€3.6 a year), and we would meet our requirments, and we wouldnt look like a banana republic

The only people that have the cruise missile is the US and UK. I cant see our allies firing Tomahawk cruise missiles into Dublin? Where do you get this stuff??

Hobart

Originally posted by Turnip

Er, I answered it. The army cannot defend the country in standing battles because we have not got any aircraft or armour support and very little artillery or anti-tank capability. We don't even have a lot of battle ready troops. Do you want to counter my assertion or are you going to shut up now?

Irish Indo article from 03/08/03 And for those of you without a Unison account

MEMBERS of the public could soon be able to buy surplus army tanks, armoured cars, trucks and other military equipment under a novel fund-raising plan.

The cash-stretched Department of Defence, which has funded a modernisation programme by cutting the size of the army and selling off barracks and land, is now looking at putting surplus equipment up for auction.

Modernising the army has meant buying hundreds of trucks and other transport vehicles, as well as a new armoured fleet.

As a result over 100 armoured vehicles, including 60 Panard M-3 armoured personnel carriers, 30 AML armoured cars, as well as Irish-produced Timoneys are surplus to requirements, as well as a large "soft-skinned" fleet of trucks, cars, and vans. Eventually, if they are not upgraded, the army's fleet of Scorpion tanks** could also be sold off.

Sources said last year over 60 mostly driveable obsolete armoured vehicles were cut up for scrap by dealers paying €500-€1,000 each - while trucks and Mondeo staff cars about 10 years old were also being scrapped.

Obsolete military equipment sales are big business in the UK and on the Continent where hobbyists buy and restore the vehicles and sometimes use them in military "re-enactment" shows or acquire them for film or TV work.

Individual vehicles like the AML armoured car could make five times as much if sold to the public rather then being scrapped. The similar ex-British Army Ferret armoured car can make about €6,500 in the UK; while ex-Irish army Bedford trucks could make about €4,600 and Scorpion tanks** could be sold from €20,000 each.

A Department of Defence spokesman confirmed that they were considering re-introducing auctions of military equipment.

Auctions, similar to the Garda vehicles auction, had been held up to about 10 years ago and were seen as a source of revenue for the department, he said.

And Just in case you forgot your previous Quote

No armour

and

By the way, 'armour' is standard military terminology for TANKS

**My emphasis on the words "Scorpion Tanks".

Now I find it quite strange that the Irish Army are able to be in a position to sell something they obviously don't posess.:rolleyes: BTW did you not mention that you were a member of our reserve defence force? Lets hope they packed a recognition kit in that bergin of yours so that you can what our other soldiers are driving. Friendly fire and all that!!!

Once again I will ask you to elaborate on your statement that the IDF are

well suited to international peacekeeping roles

or are you just going to avoid it again???

Hairy Homer

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hairy Homer
I think in today's globalised world a man has a right to become a mercenary for any army he so wishes.

---

Originally posted by bonkey
Has the right, or should have the right?

(In either case, it won't apply to Swiss men who are banned by treaty from being mercenaries for any foreign nation except the Vatican. )

OK maybe I phrased that badly. Should have read 'a mercenary for any army he so wishes and will accept him'

The British Army's website have a grisly hilarious FAQ for prospective recruits. One of the things you learn on it is that the only European country outside of the UK that accepts recruits is the Republic of Ireland.

The French Foreign Legion has no such scruples. It will accept cannon fodder from anywhere. (Mostly Britain and Germany, so a former legionnaire of my acquaintance tells me.)

In today's world where you can jet around to almost everywhere for almost nothing you can't very well stop guys popping over to become mercenaries in some other army if that's what they want to do. However, they must then become responsible for those actions especially if it leads them into conflict with their own country.

Look what the Yanks did to John Walker Lindh. Life imprisonment for fighting openly and in Afghanistan with the Taliban.

And in Britain, treason is the one remaining crime they can still, in theory, hang you for.

Victor

Originally posted by Hairy Homer
I think in today's globalised world a man has a right to become a mercenary for any army he so wishes.

Whatever about joining a volunteer corp (like the Internationals in the Spanish Civil War), I object to anyone becoming a mercenary.

Turnip

Originally posted by Hobart
Irish Indo article from 03/08/03 And for those of you without a Unison account And Just in case you forgot your previous Quote and
**My emphasis on the words "Scorpion Tanks".

Yes maybe if Saddam had a battalion of Scorpions he would have seen off the coalition forces in a couple of days. Pathetic.

Lets hope they packed a recognition kit in that bergin of yours so that you can what our other soldiers are driving. Friendly fire and all that!!!

LOL! :rolleyes:

Morpheus

Firstly it is NOT wrong, id feel safer being posted to a war zone knowing i wasnt depending on anyone else to supply me get me into and out of a hot spot, or provide covering fire, etc.

im considering joining the BA too, and have contacted the aussies about joining their air force, if i get my green card, im going to the states. fair play to you, I couldnt get into the DF here, 4 weeks too old.

secondly this crap is annoying me, I cant believe that some people here have their heads so far up their rectums.....

we are taking on about 40 - 60 new APCs these are troop carriers with gun ports to shoot out of, and probably a machine gun on each, they are not heavily armoured and are not tanks.

we have about 20 something artillery guns. I cant remember the type off hand.

to keep these alive we have a 14 (that's fourteen!!) scorpion tanks in TOTAL, that is all, the scorpion is basically a light armoured vehicle chassis mounted on tracks. it carries the following armament:
1x 90mm gun (main);
1x 7.62mm machine gun (co-axial);
1x 7.62mm machine gun (air defence)

Now over 20 years old, Its combat weight is 8,723kg thats 8 metric tons or thereabouts, its NOT A MAIN BATTLE TANK which weigh in closer to 20 or 30 tons at least.

The only advantage it has of note against a MAIN BATTLE TANK is that its reputed to be the fastest tank ever built 80Kph so we can easily out run the MAIN BATTLE TANKS we meet, as long as they dont shoot us first.

im aware that we have 8,500 combat infantry soldiers in total.

we have 7 ships in our naval fleet, mostly over 20 years old. this is entirely too small a fleet for patrolling what is commonly regarded as the largest surface area of sea owned by a single european country. they are mostly armed with 1 oto mallera cannon each, range about 12 nautical miles.

our air CORPS is not an air force, to be a force would require strike aircraft.

army co-op
we have a few cessnas over 20 years old,

for maritime patrol there are 2 CASA twin engined aircraft from 1994 doubling as Mary Harneys personal transport and tripling as parachute training aircraft when they are flight operable.

for training we have about 10 Marchetti's (20 - 30 years old) which can carry a machine gun at a stretch, not very effective against sidewinders and anything faster than 150 mph

we have about 12 rotary aircraft 1 gazelle, a few Allouette 3's and 2 or 3 Dauphins, all these aircraft range from 40 to 25 years old and all are hand downs from other air forces. they all operate as SAR and army co-op training, although we are phasing them out and replacing them with civilian operated SAR helicopters which are costing you and me more to rent than own.

im probably forgetting a sopwith camel or spitfire somewhere, but that really is the backbone of our AIR CORPS.

oh yeah were REPLACING the marchettis with 8 PC9s which are shiny new but worth f*ck all against even an ancient jet fighter, indeed our most potent fighter is the vampire in casement museum it has a 600 kts top speed.

Air defence consists of 3 or 4 cast-off second hand dutch army flycatcher radar systems connected to anti aircraft guns (missiles? not sure) with a maximum range of ten thousand feet, so come in with less than 10,000 troops, no main battle tanks, no helicopters, keep your 5 aircraft lower that 400 knots and lower than 10,000 feet and you will be squashed like a bug by the mighty irish army.

please, get a life, most countries spend 2% GDP on defence (thats european average) we spend 0.4% GDP, why should we be different and more dependent on our neighbours, we fought for independence and are still dependent on others.

Surely even the most tight fisted dim witted anti war types must see that we need our own SAR equipment, and troop support for peace keeping missions? we have a role to play in the future of the UN Europe and peace keeping the world over, but without the right stuff were useless.

Irish people should wake up and stop laughing at our armed service, they should support them, and demand the same things the taximan, aerlingus workers, the blue flue'd gardai, teachers, nurses, doctors ask for i.e. more funding, better working conditions and safer newer equipment for the future.

BEFORE you shout health service schools whatever, let me ask you this, where is the health service white paper?
the educational whitepaper???

if these 2 departments were run as highly controlled and tight fisted as the Dept of Defence, we'd be a much better off country.

Next time you complain about the defence forces not needing equipment, think about whos going to patrol our seas to protect fish stocks and stop drug smuggling, defend our OWN airspace to a reasonable level, and support peace keeping, think of the money being fired at several health boards when their should be a national centralised SINGLE health service.

ASK yourself, would YOU fly out to rescue a fisherman whos caught his arm in a winch 150 miles off shore in storm force seas and winds in a 40 year old helicopter with only one engine?

All you who think we dont need defence forces or their equipment is OK, research and think logically before you post again.

sorry bout the rant...

Hobart

Originally posted by Turnip

Yes maybe if Saddam had a battalion of Scorpions he would have seen off the coalition forces in a couple of days.

I believe at the time of the War in Iraq they had one, if not the, biggest tank divisions in the world. Maybe somebody with a bit of knowledge on this subjct could clarify.

As for your absolute refusal to make any sense or address any point directly, and the fact that you respond to the debunking of your "argument" and the exposure of you and your "knowledge" as fraudulant it is paiently obvious that what you say is absolute tosh. And so I will treat it as that.

Originally posted by Turnip
Pathetic

Yes you are really.

[EDIT] I've just noticed that you will be away on "holidays" for a week. Pity actually[/EDIT]

the_syco

Originally posted by bonkey
Can you show a single piece of Irish legislation which says that serving a foreign army is an act of treason, or when you say "traitor" are you implying something other than what the term actually means?

jc

Sorry, but this was not part of Irish legislation, but my own opinion.
I was implying that turn your back on how (most of) the British have been anti-Irish, and how still are to an extent.
If you didn't have to swear to the monarchy, I'd have no problem with him joing the British Arm, as they are good, and joining the Royal Irish Army brigade would (apart from the "Royal" bit) be mainly full of Irish people (somewhere it states that, although its hard for an Irish national to join the English army (according to public press mainly pre-dating the "peace" treaties), there are places reserved for Irish-born nationals in the Royal Irish Army.

=====
=====

I agree with Qadhafi about the fact that if the army had a practiacal purpose (as opposed to being trained for a war that in theory may happen), and get some action, there'd be less people leaving to go to foreign armies, as whats the point in learning to walk, if your only going to crawl?

=====
=====
Irish Armour; Someone said we didn't have any armour

AML 90mm in Cathal Brugha Bks

AML 20mm in Cathal Brugha Bks

Panhard AML 90mm firing

Scorpion Tanks - Cavalry Corps

=====
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Also, Hobart, if that artiicle you quoted is true, me's gonna get a Scorpio. Lets see the cops stop me now ROFL

bonkey

Originally posted by the_syco
if the army had a practiacal purpose and get some action, there'd be less people leaving to go to foreign armies,

And more people looking for compensation from those loud guns making them go deaf ???

(Sorry, couldn't resist. I know its offtopic.)

jc

Qadhafi

just a few points,

The Scorpion light tank.

We have 14 of them. They are a light tank. Their primary mission is Close Target Recce (CTR). Currently they are using petrol engines and might be up for sale if the DF doesnt convert them to diesel. Thats the only problem, getting parts for the Jaguar engine. however the DF is expected to convert them next year.
The brits took theirs out of service becuase some of the troops were complaining about the fumes in the turret. The DF had the same problem but installed a €2,000 extractor fan. The brits, aussies, and new zeland (i think) were quite impressed. The brits are thinking about bringing some of theirs back into service.

we have 20 105mm artillery. Its modern and pretty effective. We would need another 15 or so.

we have 65 Mowag Pirhana APC's. Brand new and its what other EU countries are purchasing. We need about 120 in total.

In regards to the scorpion light tank. The brits offerred all the scorpions we wanted at shipping prices! But DF said no. I dont know why?

The DF is lacking in equipment yes, 5 medium lift helicopters like the S-92. 8-12 light fighter like the L-159 and some sort of tank to protect the APC's overseas. A couple of hundred of million would sort all this out.

However the real problem is that the DF doesnt get used enough, it needs more overseas missions, same with the Army Reserve, same with any army. Once the DF has a goal its like being in a different organisation. The Army Reserve basically ran the Special Olympics for free! it was good for the DF and good for Ireland. Moral in the Army Ranger Wing is very high because they are always on excerise, overseas, good equipment and the public hold them in high regard. The government has to find missions for the rest of the DF or we will keep loosing people to other armies and leave the DF with a negative attitude

bloggs

Originally posted by Morphéus


our air CORPS is not an air force, to be a force would require strike aircraft.

army co-op
we have a few cessnas over 20 years old,

for maritime patrol there are 2 CASA twin engined aircraft from 1994 doubling as Mary Harneys personal transport and tripling as parachute training aircraft when they are flight operable.

for training we have about 10 Marchetti's (20 - 30 years old) which can carry a machine gun at a stretch, not very effective against sidewinders and anything faster than 150 mph

we have about 12 rotary aircraft 1 gazelle, a few Allouette 3's and 2 or 3 Dauphins, all these aircraft range from 40 to 25 years old and all are hand downs from other air forces. they all operate as SAR and army co-op training, although we are phasing them out and replacing them with civilian operated SAR helicopters which are costing you and me more to rent than own.

im probably forgetting a sopwith camel or spitfire somewhere, but that really is the backbone of our AIR CORPS.

oh yeah were REPLACING the marchettis with 8 PC9s which are shiny new but worth f*ck all against even an ancient jet fighter, indeed our most potent fighter is the vampire in casement museum it has a 600 kts top speed.

Air defence consists of 3 or 4 cast-off second hand dutch army flycatcher radar systems connected to anti aircraft guns (missiles? not sure) with a maximum range of ten thousand feet, so come in with less than 10,000 troops, no main battle tanks, no helicopters, keep your 5 aircraft lower that 400 knots and lower than 10,000 feet and you will be squashed like a bug by the mighty irish army.

Why don't they buy some cheap MiGs Jets from Russia (even 10 year old ones) . Also an AK-47 is cheaper than a stire (excuse the spelling) sub-machine gun.

Qadhafi

Quote for training we have about 10 Marchetti's (20 - 30 years old) which can carry a machine gun at a stretch, not very effective against sidewinders and anything faster than 150 mph

Actually they have been replaced the Marchetti's PC-9 turboprop. We bought 8 for €60million.They can fire sidewinders and are equipped with ejection seats, Heads up Display, fly up to 40,000 ft,s peed 667 km/ (496 km/h at sea level) .. More than adequate for a jet trainer.

We actually bought the Allouette brand new and goes to show how long a helicopter lasts and the pride that the air corps put into maintaining them. The French were particularly impressed.

Air defence consists of 3 or 4 cast-off second hand dutch army flycatcher radar systems connected to anti aircraft guns (missiles? not sure) with a maximum range of ten thousand feet, so come in with less than 10,000 troops, no main battle tanks, no helicopters, keep your 5 aircraft lower that 400 knots and lower than 10,000 feet and you will be squashed like a bug by the mighty irish army.

It shows the general level of ignorance. The purchase of the flycatcher was a pragmatic decision. Missiles can be jammed, bullets cant! However we do have the RBS-70 which can take down any jet should it fly below 10,000 feet.

The only attack Irelands going to face is a terrorist attack. Where is this stuff about MBT's and fighter jets attacking attacking Ireland coming from?? Are we living in the same country?Wakey Wakey !

bonkey

OK guys....

some fascinating stuff (and I'm not being sarcastic), but........

Can we try getting back on topic now?

The thread isn't about whether or not the Irish army should have / needs better equipment, its about whether or not you consider it right / wrong / somewhere-in-between for Irish people to "jine up" to a foreign army.

Qadhafi

Quote
Why don't they buy some cheap MiGs Jets from Russia (even 10 year old ones) . Also an AK-47 is cheaper than a stire (excuse the spelling) sub-machine gun.


We have enough assault rifles, the Steyr is superior to the AK-47 and it uses the same ammunition as the UK US and NATO (the side were on!).

Traditionally countries like India, China, Pakistan etc would purchase Russian equipment. Most European nations either European or US made equipment. The Russian stuff isnt as good.

As an example of jets, look at the deal Aerlingus and Ryainair got on those aircraft. Military aircraft is the same, you can pick up fighter jets at bargin prices. The company will offset the deal with offers of jobs etc.. We could rent aircraft or pay for them over their 20 year life time.click to see Javelin

Morpheus

my first point was that I agree that someone is right to leave and join a foreign army if they arent happy with whats on offer here, i know im not.

second point was to clarify figures because people were basically under the impression that we have tanks, what they got wrong was that we only have 14 tanks, and that they arent good enough to support the APC's we have, they are light fast manouverable but not heavily armed or armoured enough.

I also was pointing out we are an air corps not an air force, because we have no fighters, I also know about the PC 9 if you had read further down my post you would see that, some of my figures are slightly wrong simply because I didnt have all day to research them properly, tryin to hold down a job here

the meaning of all this "we have this, we dont have that" crap is to point out that if the gov supported the Defence Forces here with good equipment, missions and support, then people wouldnt be bothered about leaving to join other armies, it might also make the general public more aware of the plight of the DF here, anyway its still a persons right to decide, they shouldnt feel guilty about one thing or another.

Qadhafi

the meaning of all this "we have this, we dont have that" crap is to point out that if the gov supported the Defence Forces here with good equipment, missions and support, then people wouldnt be bothered about leaving to join other armies, it might also make the general public more aware of the plight of the DF here, anyway its still a persons right to decide, they shouldnt feel guilty about one thing or another.

I have to agree totally. Anyone I have met who is leaving the DF is so sickened with the DF and their lack of equipment,lack of missions and government and public indifference. Were always going to have loads of people leaving our army. Some of the people wonder why all the equipment gets discussed etc, its the main reason why people leave the DF.

The worst part is that a lot of the problems could be fixed, its just that the Governement doesnt give a crap.

I would take the oath and have no problem with it, if your a professional soldier you wouldnt have a problem but thats probably lost with the general public.

bonkey

Originally posted by Morphéus
the meaning of all this "we have this, we dont have that" crap is to point out that if the gov supported the Defence Forces here with good equipment, missions and support, then people wouldnt be bothered about leaving to join other armies, it might also make the general public more aware of the plight of the DF here,

Yes, but as I'm saying....this is off-topic. Related, but off-topic.

anyway its still a persons right to decide, they shouldnt feel guilty about one thing or another.

On topic

My guess is that very few people feel directly guilty for making (or even considering) such a choice, but are more concerned about the perception of others will have of them.

jc

bloggs

This is mainly about joining the British Army, would people have a problem with someone joining the US Army?

If i was to join an Army it would probably be them. They have the greatest opportunities, they are the most advanced, and you could probably get a pretty good (safe) job in a radar station or missile site

SkepticOne

Although someone wanting to leave the Irish army might be evidence of inadaquate equipment and training, I would be dead against the government making changes for this reason.

The purpose of the army is to carry out the policy of the government. It needs to be sufficiently equipped for the tasks to which it is likely to be put. Its purpose is not to provide careers for people.

Whether it is wrong for people to serve another countrie's interests is a very different issue to whether the Irish army is properly equipped for the purposes of the State.

Personally, I believe in The thing having the right to join the army of a foreign power. The the ethics of doing so is largely a personal matter, imo. If The Thing joins the British Army, then he may be required to carry out policies that are against the interests of his own people. He will have proudly sworn to do so, because the Irish State was not providing him with a sufficiently good career. It is unlikely that such an event should arise, but if it did, The thing's loyalty would be to the British State, not the Irish State.

Victor

Originally posted by bloggs
They have the greatest opportunities, they are the most advanced,

Technologically yes, as soldiers no - this from a friend who got bettering soldiering training to become a private in the FCÁ that while becoming a Lieutenant in the California National Guard.

Qadhafi

Technologically yes, as soldiers no - this from a friend who got bettering soldiering training to become a private in the FCÁ that while becoming a Lieutenant in the California National Guard.

Very true. The US have a different mentality when it come to soldiering than European armies(your a specialist,one thing). In fairness the FCA will train you to a better standard than US National Guard, Reserve or full timers (yes its true not including special forces obviously). I recieved training with handgun, assault rifle,machine gun,anti tank,mortar,advanced radio and how to direct mortar fire. Say you did that to a US soldier and he will reckon ur special forces or a liar!.

Although someone wanting to leave the Irish army might be evidence of inadaquate equipment and training, I would be dead against the government making changes for this reason.

The DF has to keep the best people in the force and stop loosing bodies to other armies and having a high turn over. It means constant re-training, the government recognised this and implemented measures to keep people in the DF.

Its not like England is going to declare war on a fellow EU nation like Ireland. And i think its fair to say that the troubles in the north are behind us

SkepticOne

Originally posted by Qadhafi
The DF has to keep the best people in the force and stop loosing bodies to other armies and having a high turn over. It means constant re-training, the government recognised this and implemented measures to keep people in the DF.

This is a secondary reason. Yes, there needs to be good training in order to retain people. However, the primary purpose of this training is not to retain people. It is that the training will be needed in a conflict or peace-keeping situation.

For The thing (if his post is anything to go by) the main problem is that a decent career for him is not being provided. His solution is to join some other country's army. Moral issues aside, this seems to be a perfect solution to the problem.

Its not like England is going to declare war on a fellow EU nation like Ireland. And i think its fair to say that the troubles in the north are behind us

Although it is unlikely, should there be a conflict of interest, the Thing will be proud (since they are providing a better career) to side with Britain against Ireland. I agree it is unlikely, though.

Qadhafi

This is a secondary reason. Yes, there needs to be good training in order to retain people. However, the primary purpose of this training is not to retain people. It is that the training will be needed in a conflict or peace-keeping situation.

Soldering for some isnt a national pride thing for most- just see it as a 9-5. Yes the primary goal is go enable the soldier to carry out his or her mission but if there are no oppurtunities, they will just leave.

The DF is a bit like working in a factory, not as bad but similar. You dont have to work that hard, your not really going to get fired just keep putting the time in and pass yourself, not much chance of getting a promotion, maybe to foreman but thats it. not getting skills so you just think, this is a dead end job, no respect f**k it im quitting.

It leads to a general poor morale and a bitchy sort of an organisation. Its bad for the Army, bad for the individual. People giving out about Irish people serving with the Brits and some even serving in the North, maybe if we had a decent DF, and a few oppurtunites for soldiers, this thread wouldnt exist!!

** I see the DF is about to go to Liberia, 400 bod's ! Thats what the DF needs!