Bring Back Mick McCarthy

Hairy Homer

I look in vain in my regular newspaper reading matter, the Sunday Tribune, Sunday Independent (it's ****e but the wife buys it) and today's Irish Times for a match report of Sunderland's fourth League win in succession, achieved against Crystal Palace on Saturday.

Now I'm not a Sunderland fan, but I like to keep an eye out for how teams with an Irish interest are getting on and with nine Irish players in the squad, six of whom make regular appearances, and a former national team manager running the show, Sunderland certainly qualify on that score.

McCarthy seems to be putting a tidy little run of victories together and to be turning Sunderland's fortunes around from the freefall that he inherited and couldn't at first reverse into a respectable sustained performance. Why isn't this being reported more fully in the Irish media? Are they still embarrased by the events of last year, when media managers turned journalistic ethics utterly on their head and let Eamon Dunphy act like a shill, pretending to be just anohter journalist while promoting his forthcoming book on Roy Keane?

Who's to say McCarthy wouldn't have turned around the national team's fortunes to at least the extent that Kerr has done?

After all, it was McCarthy who first capped the likes of Healy and O'Shea and Kerr doesn't seem to have brought in that much new blood, aside from trying to make O'Shea a regular.

Sure McCarthy made some mistakes and he appears to have pissed off much of the Irish media during the Saipan mess by giving exclusives to English tabloids but the vitriol to which he was subjected was totally unfair. I look forward to McCarthy leading Sunderland back to the Premier League and forcing a lot of people here, within the media and without, to eat heaped spoonfuls of humble pie.

colster

I'm delighted for him. He was a very good manager for Ireland. Never finished lower than 2nd in a qualifying group. Not too great in the playoffs but it is a great record when you consider the state of the Irish squad he took over.
Having said that though I think it was right for him to go when he did. He probably should have gone after the W.C. rather than wait around.
He was never going to be able to win over some fans after Saipan.
I'm looking forward to his future success.

cournioni

Please don't. He's in Division One with a Premiership team and he belongs there.

AngelofFire

Mick Mcarthy was an idiot. He threw away our best ever chance to win the world cup. As far as i was concerned he should of walked after we failed to qualify for Euro2000. During the world cup he failed to recognise the fact that kevin kilbane and ian harte were crap. Against Spain he brought on an off form david connolly instead of an in form clinton morrisson. The likes of Connolly,Kilbane and Harte were allowed to take penaltys without having practised it in pre match training.

After the world cup he just couldnt keep our players motivated. Our performance against russia was one of the most dire i have ever seen in international football. when we were loosing 3-2 he decides to switch to a 5-2-3 formation in which the defender that came on scored an OG. He suppressed the talents of the likes of John o shea Clinton Morrisson, Andy o brien and Colin healy by playing crap players instead of them. When he took over at sunderland he failed to score a single point in the premiership.

That sort of criteria is the reason why McCarthys back managing in the football league where he belongs

cournioni

Not to mention when we were playing the Swiss at home, he brought off our left sided defender (not too sure who it was) with with a striker with a few minutes left. And straight away a goal came from that side, causing us to lose. How we could do with that point right now...

GuanYin

I don't think so. I really don't believe Ireland would be in a position to qualify at all had McCarthy stayed on. Morale was at an all time low and it seemed like most of the players had lost respect for him.

Kerr has done very little wrong.

Actually, I was very critical of Kerr's 4-3-1-2 experiment because I thought it wasted Duff, but I watched Duff at the weekend and he was given licence to drift into the centre in a free-role sort of way (at least all his best contributions came from the middle) and he had a great game when he did, looking back, his best stuff against Turker came when he moved into an inside position (his dis-allowed goal). Mutu and Duff seem to be gelling well and I don't half wonder if Connolly or Morrison up front with Keane and Duff allowed to drift behind them could work for the Keane-Duff linkup in the same way the Mutu-Duff understanding is working out.


Kene and Muto have similar attributes, Keane has the potential to be that good.

Dustaz

Originally posted by AngelofFire
Mick Mcarthy was an idiot. He threw away our best ever chance to win the world cup.

LOL. Hairy Homer, right there is the perfect example of the type of attidude that prevents the reportage that you mentioned. People convincing themselves that Ireland ever had a chance of winning the world cup and blaming McCarthy for it failing to happen.

Whats sad is that it still seems to be the manu/keane contingent that keeps regurgitating the same old arguments about the same situations.

McCarthy wasnt perfect but i cant think of a manager that is. He did a lot better than most people gave him credit for and I hope he goes on to prove people wrong.

On a sidenote i find it hilarious that people are STILL picking on Kilbane after the last few matches.

eirebhoy

Originally posted by Dustaz
On a sidenote i find it hilarious that people are STILL picking on Kilbane after the last few matches.

He was saying that he didn't like the way McCarthy played Kilbane when he wan't at his best during the world cup. I had to read it twice myself after Kilbane has proved himself to the Irish that he can perform.

JohnnyBravo

ha ha i find it funny that some people think sunderland have a premiership squad who do they have that would get into any premier league team thats right folks no one

Sand

LOL. Hairy Homer, right there is the perfect example of the type of attidude that prevents the reportage that you mentioned. People convincing themselves that Ireland ever had a chance of winning the world cup and blaming McCarthy for it failing to happen.

Hoho, crazy isnt it. Ireland win the world cup - totally out there. I mean, Ireland even getting to the actual final - Its just not going to happen is it. Sure, Germany managed it with a side described as their worst in the last 50 odd years, a side we drew with in the group stages despite McCarthys attempts to neuter the abilities of our best player - the one that his man management didnt dispose of of course.

Yeah, in a world cup in which many of the big guns surprised everyone by self destructing it could never be said it was Irelands best chance of winning the world cup. Obviously in 2006 theres going to be a better chance - Bin Laden will have probably gassed most of the civillised world so the Irish squad will win by default. Yay.

McCarthys a division one manager and Im glad hes finding his feet at the level of football he belongs at. Why McCarthy deserves any more coverage than any other division one manager is a mystery.

jongore

No, I think we should bring back Giles, Big Jack and Eoin Hand and make the three of them joint managers! :rolleyes:

(It's at least as reasonable as bringing back Mick):D

cournioni

Originally posted by jongore
No, I think we should bring back Giles, Big Jack and Eoin Hand and make the three of them joint managers! :rolleyes:

(It's at least as reasonable as bringing back Mick):D

The thought of Big Jack coming back to manage Ireland is nearly enough to put me to sleep. I never really enjoyed watching any of his matches. The best part of the match was the end if we won.

Hairy Homer

Originally posted by PORNAPSTER
The thought of Big Jack coming back to manage Ireland is nearly enough to put me to sleep. I never really enjoyed watching any of his matches. The best part of the match was the end if we won.

To be fair I think both Charlton and McCarthy were/are excellent managers of second-rate teams. Taking less than promising material and making the absolute best out of it is arguably a different skill to blending an army of highly talented prima donnas into an effective force.

Charlton's record with Ireland speaks for itself: qualification for three major championships, memorable victories over the likes of England and Italy, sustained dogged performances that got us a top 10 rating, however briefly. Compared with what went before, that's a remarkable achievement.

He wasn't able to take it to the next level, however, and the pressure got to him when expectations rose at Italia 90, which was his second finals tournament in charge. In Euro 88, he had a laugh; in Italia 90 he got into a fight with some of the media that threatened to spoil the party. Ditto in USA 94.

Same for McCarthy. He did well to rebuild an aging team and bring in some promising newcomers. Accommodating an ego like Roy Keane's with his expectation that everything should be just like it is at United proved to be beyond him. I reckon he'll comfortably get Sunderland back into the Premiership. Though they'll never win it.

cournioni

Originally posted by Hairy Homer
Same for McCarthy. He did well to rebuild an aging team and bring in some promising newcomers. Accommodating an ego like Roy Keane's with his expectation that everything should be just like it is at United proved to be beyond him. I reckon he'll comfortably get Sunderland back into the Premiership. Though they'll never win it.

To make a point here. Keane was not expecting things to be like they are at United, he wanted the same treatment as France etc. were getting facility wise at the World Cup. He says so in the book.

DaithiSurfer

I was very impressed with McCarthy.
He was turned on by the media and supporters.
This happens all the time in the UK.
Once it happens thats the end for any manager.

All managers should be allowed a bad run.
2 Loses in a qualifying group is just a bad run thats all.
It happens. We don't have to lynch anyone for it, though thats what people did.

cournioni

Originally posted by DaithiSurfer
All managers should be allowed a bad run.
2 Loses in a qualifying group is just a bad run thats all.
It happens. We don't have to lynch anyone for it, though thats what people did.

Two loses that might cost us our place in Euro 2004.

JohnnyBravo

keanes a moaning Bi@tch he told us he would go back to ireland if mccarthy was sacked he was sacked and keane came up with the excuse of the hip or he already knew he wasnt coming back

cournioni

Originally posted by JohnnyBravo
keanes a moaning Bi@tch he told us he would go back to ireland if mccarthy was sacked he was sacked and keane came up with the excuse of the hip or he already knew he wasnt coming back

Actually, McCarthy resigned with the full support of the FAI.

DaithiSurfer

It MIGHT have cost us qualification.
If McCarthy was still here would people be so kind to him for a draw with Albania. Last minute winners in other games.
A draw with Russia.
We would have been in the playoffs now.
I don't think so.
Kerr is an excellent manager but he is still in his honeymoon period.
Make no mistake the media and people in here will turn on him eventually.
Its a fact of life.
What does anyone here know about managing an international team. **** all thats what.
All we do is complain that they real managers can't do their jobs, as if we know what we're talking about.
Give these guys some credit. They know what they are doing.
Stop calling for heads and try and understand that they know more about their job than the likes of us or the media do.

cournioni

The reason why he was under such pressure onto himself was because he made the morale level reach an all time low by sending home one of the best players Ireland ever had. Then the pressure was just piling up on him. And no the people and the media would not be happy with McCarthy for a draw against Albania because of his form prior to that game (two loses).

If he was a proper manager, he would keep important promises to his captain (which Keane emphasises in his book). He would not ask proven players to prove themselves. He would not play off form players against top class teams in the world cup and leave out players worthy of a starting place. And he would certainly not let a two goal lead slip and then say it was a good performance (vs. Holland).

JohnnyBravo

your basing everything off keanes book which was ghost written by dunphy not the most objective of books is it there were better ways for keane to express his problems than calling mc carthy an english bastard and keane is not the greatest player ireland ever had
mc grath giles liam brady anyone

DaithiSurfer

oh jesus,
Here we go again.
Another keanite.
What are you going to do in 50 years?
Tell your grandchildren that keane was god and all that bollox.
He was another player in the grand scheme of things, thats all.
They guy was an arsehole. He proved it before and since.
Yes McCarthy never liked him, but vica versa.
I reckon Keane didnt even want to play for ireland at the world cup the big ****ing baby.

And guess what. Players and Managers have differences.

But when a player goes balling to a reporter about a manager its very clear what he's after.

Now every time someone changes a conversation about McCarthy to a conversation about Keane you just know that they have a clouded view.
I bet Eamon Dunphy is your other God.

I'm talking about managers hear not something i read in a book written my a managers mortal enemy. What do did you expect to be in the book? Some praise for McCarthy getting us to playoffs and a world cup finals.
Of course not. When the team failed you make it McCarthys fault.
When they succeed its not his fault. Well the same guy managed the teams that lost and won. And they won a LOT of matches.

Also Ireland aren't good enough to win the world cup. Never will be. But they are capable of making it to major championships now and again and i for one am delighted for when they do.

NIBBS

It's plaing and simple, McCarthy was a poor manager, unproven at any level and for him to get to the World Cup was a miracle, having said that - there will never be a World Cup as open as that again, and despite scepticism, yes we could have won it, we certainly should have beaten Spain, but for the monumentally awful decision to not only play an unfit player (Ian Harte, wasn't just carrying a knock, had a painkilling injection in his foot that morning, the only reason he's with any team is his ability to take free kicks and penalty's), but to actually allow him to take not only one, but two penalties in a match is just unreal, especially seeing as throughout the match anytime he kicked the ball he winced and he couldn't pass the ball longer than 15 feet (not unusual for him I know).........

I wish him well in his new job at Sunderland, be he is again in a no loose situation, club in freefall and just about in administration, if you can't get players to fight there you might aswell close the doors and go home............

And as for the great record in qualifying groups - being second when you should or have been first in the groups is not a proud record to have, he should have been let go after we didn't qualify for Euro2000, but the FAI back then had no balls, they were busy taking the money to the bank (their own bank)........and never mention Colin Healy - yes he has talent, but for a totally unproven player to not only get and international cap, but to be given fitness training by playing International football is crazy - we play lots of first division players yet there are tonnes of inform players that seem to be getting ignored (for one there's Andy Reid at Forest, highest rated left midfielder in Division 1, doesn't even get into the squad for an Irish friendly).........

Believe me there are enough problems without dreaming of where we'd be if Mick was still in charge.........roll on Switzerland.

JohnnyBravo

ian harte and mcateer are bollocks i dont even want to go into mcateer but harte knew he had a broken foot and volunteered to take a penalty and then told the whole world about his broken foot thinking he would be treated like a hero

DaithiSurfer

I dont even like Harte either, but McCarthy (at this point i'ld like to say that even though i sound like a McCarthy fan i'm not) knows more about football than the likes of us.
The point i am trying to make is that we repeat what we read in the papers or in Pornrapsters case his booook the bible i mean keanes biography. and managers manage.

NIBBS

This has absolutely nothing to do with Keane Daithi, this is purely and simply a case of people thinking that McCarthy is a better manager than he was, the only reason I can think he did so well is that he's a good coach - but manager, never, he's a bloody awful man manager, and always seems to have problems making decisions in moments of crisis.......

the worst decision he made was keeping Harte on, or playing him in the first place, and everyone gave tonnes of stick to Kilbane, while conviently forgetting that he actually covered two positions for each game Harte was beind him and injured............but what capped it off for me was the amazing tactical blunder that happened when we were 2-0 up against Holland away, 18 minutes to go and what does he do - you can't put common sense, logic or anything to do with football on this one, he substitutes midfielders and brings on David Connolly to play as a defensive midfielder, which was just unfair to the player as much as anything, can't remember the first stupid substitution, but that would have been a far better result than the win at home, and would have done away with another needless replay............
it would be like playing with no Keeper for the last 15 minutes, makes no sense.......

I think I've bitched enough....

JohnnyBravo

I dont know if mcarthy knows more about football than us he seems to want to sign the irish team at sunderland and making mcateer the captain that was retarded

DaithiSurfer

Managers will always make substitutions etc that make no sense to anyone outside the loop.
Take connoly for example. On what i've seen of him besides the last few games i would have dumped him long ago.
But managers stuck with him why? i can only assume he's fantastic in training (where we don't see him)
Point being they see more an know more than joe public. Therefore are better qualified to make decisions.
Sure, they get them wrong sometimes, a lot even, but they are what people remember most.
People love having somthing to give out about.
I am not a fan of going for a draw, thats why im delighted we need a win in switz. But please god dont get a goal or 2 up and then settle in a dfensive formation. Its just looking to get stung.
This McCarthy has done and really pisses me off, but i guess he has his reasons

cournioni

Originally posted by DaithiSurfer
Also Ireland aren't good enough to win the world cup. Never will be. But they are capable of making it to major championships now and again and i for one am delighted for when they do.

They may as well try to get as far as they can so. Last year was their best ever chance of coming close to the final or even getting ot the final. But there is no reason why Ireland cannot EVER win the World cup. Saying that is just stupid.

Yes, yes I do think that Keane is one of the best players Ireland has ever had. And I do think that Dunphy is a good pundit. They both want the best for Ireland. Is there something wrong with that? You reckon Keane never wanted to play in the world cup. That's right, you reckon. But the man himself says that he did want to play in it, but not under those conditions. Are you calling the man a liar? Are you saying his book is full of lies? I'd doubt he'd release a book if it was full of lies. I'd bet you didn't even read it.

I don't mind him "balling to a reporter", I'd do the very same thing if I was the captain and I was promised something from the manager that meant alot to me. I'd feel betrayed, and yes I'd probably leave the team if push came to shove. Does that mean I'm letting my town down? No it doesn't.

When you look at the statistics. How many games against top sides have Ireland won in the run in, during and after the world cup without Keane under McCarthy? The answer is one, against Saudi Arabia a side that was demolished 8-0 by Germany. That tells you it all. Roy Keane managed that team himself on the field. It had nothing to do with McCarthy.

I notice that you focussed in on my bit on Keane alone in your answer. Why don't you take a look at the rest of McCarthy's shortfallings that I wrote in my last post. The Holland game, his team selections, his man management, telling Irwin to prove himself, telling Paul McGrath to go on a drinking binge with the team. The facts are there. McCarthy is a useless manager.

Thanx 4 The Fish

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Originally posted by PORNAPSTER
They may as well try to get as far as they can so. Last year was their best ever chance of coming close to the final or even getting ot the final. But there is no reason why Ireland cannot EVER win the World cup. Saying that is just stupid.

Yes, yes I do think that Keane is one of the best players Ireland has ever had. And I do think that Dunphy is a good pundit. They both want the best for Ireland. Is there something wrong with that? You reckon Keane never wanted to play in the world cup. That's right, you reckon. But the man himself says that he did want to play in it, but not under those conditions. Are you calling the man a liar? Are you saying his book is full of lies? I'd doubt he'd release a book if it was full of lies. I'd bet you didn't even read it.

I don't mind him "balling to a reporter", I'd do the very same thing if I was the captain and I was promised something from the manager that meant alot to me. I'd feel betrayed, and yes I'd probably leave the team if push came to shove. Does that mean I'm letting my town down? No it doesn't.

When you look at the statistics. How many games against top sides have Ireland won in the run in, during and after the world cup without Keane under McCarthy? The answer is one, against Saudi Arabia a side that was demolished 8-0 by Germany. That tells you it all. Roy Keane managed that team himself on the field. It had nothing to do with McCarthy.

I notice that you focussed in on my bit on Keane alone in your answer. Why don't you take a look at the rest of McCarthy's shortfallings that I wrote in my last post. The Holland game, his team selections, his man management, telling Irwin to prove himself, telling Paul McGrath to go on a drinking binge with the team. The facts are there. McCarthy is a useless manager.

Agree with you on the one of the best players bit Porn. And that he had alot to do with the running of the team on the pitch. However on the lying in the book, wasn't that his defence in the Haaland disrepute hearing, that he was allowed to use poetic license (read lying) as this is what sells books. It may not be all lies but there was certainly some scope for poetic license in there.

On another note, Mick Mc Carthy is earning more than you and I ever will for managing a football team, somebody must think he is able to do it, even if you don't rate him.

DaithiSurfer

i'm not saying keane is a bad player.
He was fantastic for ireland. But wasnt there for a lot of games.
He's a big crybaby.
and yes there are lies in his book.
its not the bible. If i could save you from this false piece of 'literature' i would, but i'm afraid its too late.
I'm no McCarthy fan as i said before, all i am trying to say is keane doesnt speak the gospel and as the previous post pointed out McCarthy knoews more than we do.
And no we won't win the world cup EVER.
I'm sure fans of switserland, scotland and wales think they will win a world cup some day too.
The USA will win one before we do.
Its a problem with the pool of quality players not the heart or determination of the players who make it.
There will be one world cup won every 4 years. Just how many teams do you think with a population of 4 mil do you think will win it. Ok so maybe we can add another 10 mil to that for eligible irish in the uk but we'll only get seciond pick from there.

JohnnyBravo

Just so im clear you think dunphy had irelands best interests at heart when he criticized mcarthy i think not he dispises both mcarthy and the fella who ghost wrote mcarthys book
Just look at his tirade against gay burn hardly the statute of professionalism you would have us think

As for keane keane lies hate to break it to you but he does
He said he never called mcarthy an english bast##rd he did there were 22 witnesses
He said he would go back and play for ireland if mccarthy left the fai gently persauded mcarthy to leave in the hope keane would come back he said he would he didnt theres another lie
So to say that everything in keanes book is the truth is a load of bollocks

cournioni

Originally posted by Thanx 4 The Fish
On another note, Mick Mc Carthy is earning more than you and I ever will for managing a football team, somebody must think he is able to do it, even if you don't rate him.

Yeah... the FAI and a Sunderland board who hired Howard Wilkinson to revive them. :rolleyes:

Says the whole lot doesn't it?!

cournioni

Originally posted by JohnnyBravo
Just so im clear you think dunphy had irelands best interests at heart when he criticized mcarthy i think not he dispises both mcarthy and the fella who ghost wrote mcarthys book
Just look at his tirade against gay burn hardly the statute of professionalism you would have us think

As for keane keane lies hate to break it to you but he does
He said he never called mcarthy an english bast##rd he did there were 22 witnesses
He said he would go back and play for ireland if mccarthy left the fai gently persauded mcarthy to leave in the hope keane would come back he said he would he didnt theres another lie
So to say that everything in keanes book is the truth is a load of bollocks

Could you put them all in quotes and have a tape of Keane saying those things. I'm not saying the guy is a saint, but Jesus lads come on.

IgnatiusJRiley

I think it's fair to say that Kerr's proved nothing. He's beaten crap teams three times (including two last minute efforts), drawn with a crap team once and drawn with an average team (Russia).
All this talk of how brilliantly he's turned things around is complete rubbish.

cournioni

Originally posted by IgnatiusJRiley
I think it's fair to say that Kerr's proved nothing. He's beaten crap teams three times (including two last minute efforts), drawn with a crap team once and drawn with an average team (Russia).
All this talk of how brilliantly he's turned things around is complete rubbish.

I agree with that. But I'd say, with time he will become a class manager.

The Muppet

Going back on topic I hope Mick is going to be taught how to count to 11 before he comes back.

Dustaz

Originally posted by PORNAPSTER


Yes, yes I do think that Keane is one of the best players Ireland has ever had. And I do think that Dunphy is a good pundit. They both want the best for Ireland. Is there something wrong with that?

Theres something very wrong with that. Keane is certainly one of Ireland best players ever but if you really think that Keane and Dunphy wanted what was best for Ireland during that whole pathetic affair then i suggest you wise up to the way of the world.


Dunphy wanted what was best for Dunphy, not Ireland. Dont you read the papers? Listen to the radio? Watch TV? Dunphy is a shameless troll, He'll say anything for attention for his current project. This is an inescapable fact. So dont tell me he had Irelands best interests at heart.

Roy Keane also wanted what was best for Roy Keane. If he put Ireland before himself, he would have tempered his prima donna ego and not manufactured the situation that occured (It takes two to tango, a maxim seemingly lost on keane apologists). After the world cup he refused to play for Ireland when McCarthy went even AFTER telling Kerr that he would play. Why? Because it wasnt good for Roy Keane.

cournioni

Keane is only human. There is only so much anger you can take. Before you go off the boil so to speak. But he done both, first he wanted what was best for Ireland, which was top facilities for the world cup not potholes on the carpark they were supposed to train on in Saipan. This had happened before with Ireland, which is why Keane told McCarthy what he wanted if Ireland were to qualify. McCarthy didn't do that therefore he did not do his job (to manage the team).

He then done what he thought was best for himself (as you do) which was retiring from international football. He never promised that he would come back and play for Ireland, he said he *might* play for Ireland again. All these people who are angry at him not returning for Ireland should realise that. Before the World Cup there was talk that it might be his last major tournament anyway. He took the right decision for himself, which again is only human. It might put an extra two or three years onto his playing career. I know I would put myself before other people, because that is the way the world is.

As for Dunphy, yes you are right. Dunphy does think of himself before others. But he does his job, the man talks sense most of the time and the only reason why he is hated so much is because he calls what he see's. In other words, he is not a people pleaser like Niall Quinn for example. He is eager to get his point across and he puts it across agressively (another reason why people think he's an a-hole). But as a pundit, he does want what is best for Ireland and that is to have the best team out, with the best manager and the best results.

End of story.

ella minnow pea

Originally posted by NIBBS
awful decision to not only play an unfit player (Ian Harte, wasn't just carrying a knock, had a painkilling injection in his foot that morning, the only reason he's with any team is his ability to take free kicks and penalty's), but to actually allow him to take not only one, but two penalties in a match

he only took one penalty

he took the first penalty, won by duff, which he missed.

the second penalty, won by quinn, was taken and scored by robbie.

then for the shoot out robbie/holland/kilbane/connolly/finnan took the penalties.

Morgans

Well said, teh mistruths about McCarthy are annoying.

He shouldnt have picked Ian Harte in the WC. No one seems to credit him for picking Jason McAteer for the game against Holland at home when Jase wasnt playing at a club.

This idea of Roy keane being the martyr for the greater good of Irish soccer is the biggest joke/lie put about by his media. He could and should have waited for two weeks and rant like fook on teh way home, tell us all how much of a wanker McCarthy was, tell us about teh poor conditions, etc. Not one player or backroom staff supported Keane's view. Eamo did, and Eamo can see through all the bullspit, to the real truth, teh truth that they dont want you to know about. I cant believe that every last one were frightened of their place by Mick. Keane's priorities were shown up by his decision to leave. They sacked the manager, new regieme in place, no thanks lads. I want my 100g a week for as long as i can. Dont think i'll watch teh irish games

I dont want to go into that Roy keane rant again, apologies. But the fact is that teh media backed Kerr - fantastic appointment for irish soccer - but teh performance against Russia was tame, rudderless. A draw at home is about as bad a result as a loss away in these qualifiying competitions. Duff doestn play on the left, Kilbane is essential to teh irish team, John o shea doesnt play centre half, but to the irish media, Kerr is a tactical genius, whose unbeaten run has brought us to the brink of the europena championships. All friendlies, even those with blatant hometown decisions, are included in this amazing turnaround. Ireland are playing far worse now than under Mccarthy for a long time. No midfield, staunton, quinn, and royston retiring didnt help. I just hope he grows into the job as well as mccarthy did. Its now that journalist should actual look past the bull, and see what is actually happening out there.

DaithiSurfer

Also Kerr cant take credit for being in the position they are in now.
Thats down to Georgia and Albania and their results against russia.

cournioni

Originally posted by Morgans
Well said, teh mistruths about McCarthy are annoying.

He shouldnt have picked Ian Harte in the WC. No one seems to credit him for picking Jason McAteer for the game against Holland at home when Jase wasnt playing at a club.

This idea of Roy keane being the martyr for the greater good of Irish soccer is the biggest joke/lie put about by his media. He could and should have waited for two weeks and rant like fook on teh way home, tell us all how much of a wanker McCarthy was, tell us about teh poor conditions, etc. Not one player or backroom staff supported Keane's view. Eamo did, and Eamo can see through all the bullspit, to the real truth, teh truth that they dont want you to know about. I cant believe that every last one were frightened of their place by Mick. Keane's priorities were shown up by his decision to leave. They sacked the manager, new regieme in place, no thanks lads. I want my 100g a week for as long as i can. Dont think i'll watch teh irish games

So you're saying that just because he picked McAteer that we wouldn't have got that goal. BS. He scored a goal, so what. If another player was in the position he was in, they would have put it in the net too.

Not one player commented on it. Not one player supported Keane's view because they were fearing that their "holiday" in Japan would be terminated. That is obvious, even after the world cup they refused to comment on it. Most of them had never played in a World Cup before. And those who did were playing their final few games for Ireland.

Morgans

Macateer had a stormer against Holland, when so many managers restrict themselves to picking obvious selections, McCarthy had faith in McAteer when he hadnt been playing any soccer at all. Just saying that every selection made by McCarthy has been labelled as idotic by those who dislike him, without actually examining any facts.

Duff, good premiership player that he was - didnt have a great season last year - in my opinion, got a 17m pound move on the back of a world cup where, it has been commented, that he was one of the players of the tournament, yet everyone still criticises McCarthy for where he played. I think the farther up the pitch, and the less defensive duties given to Duff, the better the player he is. He is far more dangerous with one centre back facing him, than he is with a full back, centre half, and coving midfielder there to tackle him. The major problem with the irish team now, is that they lack a proper tall striker. Quinny's job - fantastic each time he came on in the WC, and a distributor from midfield. Staunton did this job in the WC.

McCarthy could do no right in some people's eyes, many more Roy Keane fans retrospectively questioned his decisions after saipan.

The Muppet

McCarthy could do no right in some people's eyes, many more Roy Keane fans retrospectively questioned his decisions after saipan.

As yo say keane could have held off until after the world cup but so could mc carth. If he was such a good manager he should have know keane well enought to understand that if he trie d to belittle him in front of his team mates what the obvious outcome would be. Leaving blame aside Keane was dismissed by themccarthy a week befor the world cup, If any other manager did that to his best player we would be laughing at him it and rightly so.

Mc carth admiited himself that for the extra time in the spain match he did not realise that they were playing with 10 men. Imo the occasion got the better of him and he was not doing his job properly in this instance. If he had realised he could have chaged tactics to make use of our extra man . There was other well documented incicdents that question his managerial abilities.
He did well to get us qualified but when the pressure was on he could not handle it and got caught up in the situation instead of doing what a real top class manager would.

Morgans

Possibly, The muppet, and i thought your post had some valid criticisms of McCarthy, especially that he could have waited, but Keane walked. I honestly think he simply didnt want to be at the World Cup, that he thought he would get though it, but the misunderstanding re the point of going to Saipan drove him mad. I dont think McCarthy should have attempted to humiliate Keane, but I Keane's article which at the very least was pointed to undermind McCarthy and teh irish staff/FAI wasnt as innocent as Dunphy and his supporters make out.

McCarthy made a hell of a lot of mistakes - teh famous "go out a prove yourself" to Irwin was disgraceful. I dont think the Spain extra time incident would have made much odds. (thats my opinion). However, the idea that Roy keane got us to Japan, while it was Mick McCarthy that failed us to get to all other tournament while keane played, is hypocritical. I do believe that if Roy played for a different club, there would be at teh very least a bit more balance in the reporting, and the treatement of McCarthy.

Theres an attitude that we should have beaten spain. We were playing without our only world class player, we had a paceless left back who couldnt pass as a left back, we had our best player on teh pitch playing in teh wrong position, we had a midfield which consisted of players from Sunderland, Charlton (ipswich at the time), Aston Villa reserve, and we should have beaten the best from Real Madrid, Barcelona, Valencia etc. Raul has more talent than the irish team combined. But if it wasnt for our idiotic manager we would have beaten them. I think Mccarthy deserves some credit for getting through the toughest qualification group that I can remember Ireland having to face, and putting ireland into a position to beat the likes of Spain.

If Roy Keane was there we would have won the world cup.

DaithiSurfer

If i went to a paper and said that my boss was ****e and that my workmates were all crap. guess what?
I'ld get sacked. And i'm sure if i didn't that my workmates wouldnt talk to me again.
I'ld Hardly be a good person to be on the team then would i.

McCarthy was the boss. Don't forget that.
He reprimanded Keane and he walked out.
Now maybe like all bosses he could have done it in a better way, but as boss he should be respected. He who disrespects the boss better be ready to walk.
Also, my dad is a good friend of Mick Byrne (who might be writing his own book ) and at christmas he was in our house and i asked him about the Keane affair. He said he was told not to talk about it but did tell me that in his opinion Keane had been moaning for weeks before the world cup trip to Saipan. He was like a spoiled child who didnt get what he wanted and instead of getting on with the job, he bitched and moaned until everyone wanted him gone.

cournioni

Originally posted by DaithiSurfer
If i went to a paper and said that my boss was ****e and that my workmates were all crap. guess what?
I'ld get sacked. And i'm sure if i didn't that my workmates wouldnt talk to me again.
I'ld Hardly be a good person to be on the team then would i.

McCarthy was the boss. Don't forget that.
He reprimanded Keane and he walked out.
Now maybe like all bosses he could have done it in a better way, but as boss he should be respected. He who disrespects the boss better be ready to walk.
Also, my dad is a good friend of Mick Byrne (who might be writing his own book ) and at christmas he was in our house and i asked him about the Keane affair. He said he was told not to talk about it but did tell me that in his opinion Keane had been moaning for weeks before the world cup trip to Saipan. He was like a spoiled child who didnt get what he wanted and instead of getting on with the job, he bitched and moaned until everyone wanted him gone.

But there was a reason for him to disrespect the boss. I know that if my conditions weren't what I wanted to be and that could cause harm to me, then I would be quite pissed off and get myself sacked or I would quit. That is my point. McCarthy should have made sure that the conditions were right for the players. Keane as the captain spoke out about it. McCarthy became a muppet and called that team meeting.

DaithiSurfer

I agree McCarthy handled it arse ways but still it was down to 2 men arguing for months before.
Both handled it arseways in the long run.
And then the carry on afterwards will have a lasting effect on irish football.
I have this argument every weekend in the pub too .
And i bet we're not the only ones.


But McCarthy was not all about Keane.
He did develop Irish football. He had the team playing a much nicer games than big jack. I think they improved continuosly under Mccarthy and possibly if he was given the chance would have improved more.

Maybe he would have beaten Albania and Russia

Morgans

but was Saipan a training camp. No one other than Keane seemingly thought so. I can remember an interview he did with RTE during the saga, and he said he didnt mind lads coming into the hotel at 4 or 5 in the morning. Fair play to them.This was used by the Keano propogandists as gospel of the unsteady ship McCarthy was running. ONly Keane actually wanted to win, the rest of teh team were there for a good time. ( ended up unbeaten in the WC against Germany, Spain and Cameroon)

I think if you remove the propoganda from both sides, that the scenario mentioned by DaithiSurfer is by far the most compelling. Of course, IMHO. Every otehr player had the same conditions. I can remember at the time of the controversy Lawrenson saying that he would swim to Japan to play in a World Cup. Keane didnt want to be there. As i said, Keane could have easily unleashed a tirade against the managment/backroom staff/ players/ and hte FAI after the world cup as his reason for retirement.

ON an aside, I also remember Dunphy talking about the possible successor to Mccarthy on Newstalk ( Ger Gilroy) and he said someone like Joe Kinnear, cos he definitely would put up with the stuff like Keane, "he would have him out of there". I nearly wet myself laughing at teh bus stop. He backtracked afterwards, but if there was anything to sum up dunphy and his role in teh Keane affair that was it.

DaithiSurfer

Also if Saipan was so bad.
Why not just move the training down to the local school pitch.
I'm sure they had grass somewhere in Saipan.