Bring Back Mick McCarthy

The Muppet

Posted by Morgans

Keane walked

I think most agree there was blame on both sides but nothing I have seen published to date on this incident convinces me that Keane Walked. That would indicate that Mc Cathy had given him the option to stay for the tournament. I don’t believe this to be the case. While I respect your opinion that he walked, I and many others are equally adamant that he was dismissed. I am not claiming he was blameless but I believe Mc Cathy as Manager held ultimate blame for what happened.

---

Posted by Morgans

However, the idea that Roy Keane got us to Japan, while it was Mick McCarthy that failed us to get to all other tournament while Keane played, is hypocritical.

---

I don’t believe that Keane single handily got us to the world cup. He is only one player and the whole squad deserve their recognition for qualifying from a strong group. However I do believe that we were a better team with him in and he was instrumental in getting the best out of our players on the pitch. I think Ireland’s recent performance backs up this point.

---

Posted by Morgans


There’s an attitude that we should have beaten Spain. We were playing without our only world class player, we had a placeless left back who couldn’t pass as a left back, we had our best player on the pitch playing in the wrong position, we had a midfield which consisted of players from Sunderland, Charlton (Ipswich at the time), Aston Villa reserve, and we should have beaten the best from Real Madrid, Barcelona, Valencia etc. Raul has more talent than the Irish team combined.

---

IMHO these are all valid criticisms .We were playing without our best player because the manager sent him home; WE played with a pace less left back because the manager picked him. , John o Shea was playing well in that position for Man U at the time and could have been a better option but he was not picked, again this was down to the manager. The player playing out of position Duff could have played on the left and Reid on the right but the manager chose not to do that. The midfield well again IMO we could have had Keane there but for Mc Cathy. As For beating Spain I agree they are a quality side but we were a whisker away from beating them with all the faults pointed out in this paragraph. Just maybe if O Shea Reid and Keane had Played we would have beaten them on the day. It is hypothetical at this stage but I think we all agree we didn’t field our strongest team that day and for half an hour the Manager didn’t realise we had a numerical advantage and just maybe if he had and changes been made it would have tipped the balance that extra little bit needed.

---

Posted by Morgans


I think McCarthy deserves some credit for getting through the toughest qualification group that I can remember Ireland having to face, and putting Ireland into a position to beat the likes of Spain.

---

Indeed he does but so do the players. Roy Keane as our Captain was Instrumental in pushing himself and the players to the limit to get the results needed and also deserves Credit for his services.

I Think It is sad to see so called Irish Supporters berating Keane for his actions since Saipan and IMO it has more to do with the club he plays for than the National Squad. This is the same mentality which makes some “fans” think it’s acceptable to Boo Rangers players when they face us in Internationals.
United supporters are just as disappointed that Keane did not come back when Kerr took charge but He did have a serious injury and operation last year and was obviously not playing to his full potential. Also missing out on his last chance at the World Cup must hurt him. I don’t blame him for quitting International football if he though it would give him longer between games to recover and so extend his club career, most players would do the same. Alan Shearer did it in England and his decision was respected and didn’t get the criticism Keane did. Roy Keane owes us Nothing and should be treated the same as all former International Players and thanked for his service to his country.

cournioni

Well said.

sleepwalker

thats nice, what about the 17 games in a row that they didn't win though ?

i honestly think mccarthy did a great job for last years world cup and he deserves everybodys respect for what he achieved in simply getting us qualified but after the world cup it was obvious we needed a change and I think its fair to say that Kerr will get the best out of new younger players. the reason Kerr hasnt introduced many new faces is because we're in the middle of a qualifying group and the time to change the team just isnt there


roy keane turned his back on his country last summer and should always feel ashamed for that. i dont care about the shoddy training camp its still no excuse for walking out

cournioni

Originally posted by sleepwalker
roy keane turned his back on his country last summer and should always feel ashamed for that. i dont care about the shoddy training camp its still no excuse for walking out

Have you read any of my posts?

The Muppet

roy keane turned his back on his country last summer and should always feel ashamed for that.

Lies.
Mc Carthy sent home our most inflential player a week befor the world cup.

i dont care about the shoddy training camp its still no excuse for walking out

So explain his options.

Qadhafi

Also Ireland aren't good enough to win the world cup. Never will be. But they are capable of making it to major championships now and again and i for one am delighted for when they do.

Thats the kind of NEGATIVE ATTITUDE we dont need in sport. Keep that up and we'll end up like Northern Ireland.

Personally I think Keane knew he was getting old didnt want to be there, egged on by Alex Ferginson. Hence the bust up. ok a loss but things move on.

If you look at Irish football obviously you can see an evolution, we were complete ****, a fcking joke, charlton came along, we realised we can get some good results. however post 1994 he ran out of ideas. Mc Carthy came along progressed things another bit.

You must admit the football played by Ireland looked a lot nicer than previously. But Mc Carthy ran out of ideas as well.

Kier came along and things were in bad shape. He does the fundamentals right and things will build on that, both Charlton and Mc Carthy didnt do things in a systematic way. We have a limited number of players with only 2 possibly 3 good players on the team. Wait till 2006 world cup before we sack Keir.

Soccer is so underdeveloped in this country, I was in Spain there at the end of last summer and they couldnt belive we had a part time FAI, no proper National Stadium and such a week national league and yet be such a dangerous side to play againist.

We arent going to get the basics right before we start to move up the international standings!!!

JohnnyBravo

Hate to break it to ye lads but if a player says you couldnt manage a sock drawer and calls you a plastic paddy (editied version) thereby undermining your influenece over the team he has to be sent home no matter who he is

The Muppet

Hate to break it to ye lads but if a player says you couldnt manage a sock drawer and calls you a plastic paddy (editied version) thereby undermining your influenece over the team he has to be sent home no matter who he is

I agree , but as you rightly say he was sent home he did not walk out as some claim. Its a shame for our national team that it went as far as it did.

knobbles

Originally posted by Qadhafi

If you look at Irish football obviously you can see an evolution, we were complete ****, a fcking joke, charlton came along, we realised we can get some good results.

"complete ****, a fcking joke" ???...those words are way over the top.
Ireland were average at times but had some very good campaigns in the 10 years before Jack.
People should be reminded and I'm happy to do the research..


Euro 76
USSR 8 points
Ireland 7
Turkey 6
Switzerland 3

...just 1 point away, with an historic 3-0 over USSR the 1972 runners-up!


Argentina 78
FRANCE 5 (home 2-1, away 0-2)
Bulgaria 4 (home 0-0, away 1-2)
Ireland 3

...decent effort!


Euro 80
England 15
Northern Ireland 9
Republic of Ireland 7
Bulgaria 5
Denmark 4

...average!


Spain 82
BELGIUM 11
FRANCE 10
Republic Of Ireland 10
Holland 9
Cyprus 0

...missed on goal difference! France went onto the semi-finals


Euro 84
Netherlands 13
Spain 13
Republic of Ireland 9
Iceland 3
Malta 2

...average!


Mexico 86
Denmark 11
USSR 10
Switzerland 8
Republic of Ireland 6
Norway 5

...ye, fairly ****e but beat USSR again!

i also noticed we'd no competitive home defeats from 1972(russia 1-2) to 1983 (Holland 2-3)....16 games, not bad for a "complete ****, a fcking joke"

GuanYin

Originally posted by The Muppet
Its a shame for our national team that it went as far as it did.

That really is the single most pathetic statement I have ever seen on Boards. Its a pity you don't show half the blind unwaivering support for you country as you do for Man Utd. What part of manchester did you say you were from? Oh my mistake, you're from Ireland?
:rolleyes:

So its a shame that players like Finnan, Keane, Duff and Reid got to shine in the biggest tournament in the world? its a shame that they got experience at the highest level of the game?

Lets put thing in perspective here. Keane is One man. We had a SQUAD in the east. Whatever about how McCarthy and Keane panned out, one thing is clear, all was not well before that incident and it was having an effect on the squad as a whole. Now I don't think McCarthy handled it particularly well, BUT it was not any of the other players fault that the facilities etc were poor, and Keane, with his general demeanour, BEFORE that spat with McCarthy, was acting in a way that effected them.

The spat with McCarthy and the subsequent result is well debated and I sit on the fence, Keane was dead right in what he said, he was dead wrong in when he said it. Simple as that. I don't believe that he did anything that couldn't have waited 20 days and it was his personal feelings that caused what happened.

All that aside, its totally irrelevant now. Keane would most likely have retired after the tournament, the difference being it would have been graciously and with a sense of closure. I think his injuries already this season have shown that he would have had to bow out of international football, so it all makes no difference now in the end. McCarthy still would probably have gone and Keane would still be retired so let it rest people!

I think Kerr has done bang up job with an average/above average squad and I think we can make the playoffs.

Oh, and the Irish team were playing well from Giles era as manager, as he totally reformed the set up.

p.pete

Originally posted by The Muppet Its a shame for our national team that it went as far as it did.

Originally posted by sykeirl
That really is the single most pathetic statement I have ever seen on Boards. Its a pity you don't show half the blind unwaivering support for you country as you do for Man Utd. What part of manchester did you say you were from? Oh my mistake, you're from Ireland?
:rolleyes:
So its a shame that players like Finnan, Keane, Duff and Reid got to shine in the biggest tournament in the world? its a shame that they got experience at the highest level of the game?
Lets put thing in perspective here. Keane is One man. We had a SQUAD in the east. Whatever about how McCarthy and Keane panned out, one thing is clear, all was not well before that incident and it was having an effect on the squad as a whole. Now I don't think McCarthy handled it particularly well, BUT it was not any of the other players fault that the facilities etc were poor, and Keane, with his general demeanour, BEFORE that spat with McCarthy, was acting in a way that effected them.
The spat with McCarthy and the subsequent result is well debated and I sit on the fence, Keane was dead right in what he said, he was dead wrong in when he said it. Simple as that. I don't believe that he did anything that couldn't have waited 20 days and it was his personal feelings that caused what happened.
All that aside, its totally irrelevant now. Keane would most likely have retired after the tournament, the difference being it would have been graciously and with a sense of closure. I think his injuries already this season have shown that he would have had to bow out of international football, so it all makes no difference now in the end. McCarthy still would probably have gone and Keane would still be retired so let it rest people!
I think Kerr has done bang up job with an average/above average squad and I think we can make the playoffs.
Oh, and the Irish team were playing well from Giles era as manager, as he totally reformed the set up.

It certainly is a shame that people are even capable of dreaming up such notions. It would be similar to saying that it was a shame that we got as far as beating Romania in 1990 due to our style of football. Or perhaps it was a good thing that we never reached a major tournament prior to 88 because the FAI was even more of a joke back then and we wouldn't want it to reflect favourably on them.

Saipan was a fiasco and there was many people to blame. Depending on your allegence you are going to blame different parties but the notion of Ireland underperforming to aid the making of a political point is disgusting.

JohnnyBravo

And now for something completly different

Duff is a legend did anyone see him against wolves

p.pete

Originally posted by JohnnyBravo
And now for something completly different
Duff is a legend did anyone see him against wolves

Is there still not enough Chelsea fans to justify your own threads? Don't worry, soon as ye win the league there will be plenty...

JohnnyBravo

hey i am not a bamd wagon fan i hate the way it has happened to utd and liverpool and more recently fulham and man city

Oswald Osbourne

Originally posted by Morgans
Duff, good premiership player that he was - didnt have a great season last year - in my opinion, got a 17m pound move on the back of a world cup where, it has been commented, that he was one of the players of the tournament,

Hate to cut in there but Damian Duff had an EXCELLENT season last year. He was Blackburns highest scorer (ahead of Cole and Yorke btw) and only lost out on player of the year to Brad Friedel beacuse the guy was in such blistering form that he actually set a premiership record for the highest number of cleansheets in a season. And the year before that Duff WAS player of the year at Ewood Park.

No my friend, Damian Duff had been consistantly brilliant for Blackburn (and to a lesser extent for Ireland) for about 3 years now and earnt his 17m transfer to Chelsea because in the current transfer market he actually IS worth 17m.

Oswald Osbourne

Originally posted by Morgans
Possibly, The muppet, and i thought your post had some valid criticisms of McCarthy, especially that he could have waited, but Keane walked. I honestly think he simply didnt want to be at the World Cup, that he thought he would get though it, but the misunderstanding re the point of going to Saipan drove him mad. I dont think McCarthy should have attempted to humiliate Keane, but I Keane's article which at the very least was pointed to undermind McCarthy and teh irish staff/FAI wasnt as innocent as Dunphy and his supporters make out.

McCarthy made a hell of a lot of mistakes - teh famous "go out a prove yourself" to Irwin was disgraceful. I dont think the Spain extra time incident would have made much odds. (thats my opinion). However, the idea that Roy keane got us to Japan, while it was Mick McCarthy that failed us to get to all other tournament while keane played, is hypocritical. I do believe that if Roy played for a different club, there would be at teh very least a bit more balance in the reporting, and the treatement of McCarthy.

Theres an attitude that we should have beaten spain. We were playing without our only world class player, we had a paceless left back who couldnt pass as a left back, we had our best player on teh pitch playing in teh wrong position, we had a midfield which consisted of players from Sunderland, Charlton (ipswich at the time), Aston Villa reserve, and we should have beaten the best from Real Madrid, Barcelona, Valencia etc. Raul has more talent than the irish team combined. But if it wasnt for our idiotic manager we would have beaten them. I think Mccarthy deserves some credit for getting through the toughest qualification group that I can remember Ireland having to face, and putting ireland into a position to beat the likes of Spain.

If Roy Keane was there we would have won the world cup.

At last someone speaking some sense on this thread. I agree completely with you that Keane didn't want to be at the world cup and (to whatever extent) engineered his own withdrawal.

As for this idea that we 'should have' beaten Spain you're totally spot on in your denial of that too.

And yes Ireland will win the world cup one day .... when we have 50 or so players getting regular first team football in the Italian and Spanish leagues. Just don't hold your breath til then.

Oswald Osbourne

Originally posted by knobbles
"complete ****, a fcking joke" ???...those words are way over the top.
Ireland were average at times but had some very good campaigns in the 10 years before Jack.
People should be reminded and I'm happy to do the research..

Yep, you can write off just about every game Ireland played prior to 1972 purely because FAI ran things more like a 5-a-side pub team than an international setup. Things were so shoddy that in many cases players would line out for their club sides on a Saturday, then get the ferry over to Dublin and play for us THE FOLLOWING DAY!

The 1972 EC qualifiers was the LAST time Ireland came last in a qualifying groups and as the stats knobbles showed there during the 70's and 80's we were at the very least competitive (and often very unlucky). The reason we didn't in fact do better was because of our atrocious away record. Between 1974-1986 our away record was (P=21 W=3 D=4 L=14). Home record was (P=21 W=13 D=5 L=3) btw.

The key to Chartons success was that he realised our complete inability to pick up points away from home (especially in Eastern Europe) and put in place a system that brought this weakness to an end. As we already knew how to do the business at home so he had already inheirited half of a key to success. There was no question that Ireland had the players and knew how to win games when properly prepared.

So to cut a long story short as knobbles rightly states Ireland were in NO WAY a 'complete ****, a fcking joke" ???...' in the years leading up to the Charlton Era

The Muppet

Posted by Sykeirl

That really is the single most pathetic statement I have ever seen on Boards.

So Stating that I think its a shame roy Keane no longer plays for Ireland is more pathetic that the ones you ranted against in the Racism Thread? Try keep things in perspective.

One of the most pathetic statement I have seen on the soccer forum is someone who claims to be a neutral football supporter persistantly claim that they saw G neville throw a punch at an Arsenal Player during last Sundays debacle when such an Incident did not happen. In my statement I was expressing my opinion the other person stated their claims as fact. One would have to question their objectivity and reasoning for making such blatently false claims.

Posted by Sykeirl
Gary Neville took a swing at Parlour, and while it didn't connect, there was intent (whee have I heard that before), he too should get a ban.

---

Funny, I saw it on Sky Sports Review. Of course if it didn't happen, it must have been an imaginary tape made by ABU media techies.

On My keane comments: If you anyone else does not agree with my opinion thats fine. Other posts on this board and comments elsewhere including from Jack Charlton suggest that you are in the Minority. I was only expressing a personal opinion , we are all entitled to them.

Sykeir l I have no interset in debating with someone who holds such Biased anti Utd Views so to avoid the Flame threads of the past week and in the interest of Boards I will not be replying directly to any of your ABU comments in Future.

GuanYin

Originally posted by The Muppet
So Stating that I think its a shame roy Keane no longer plays for Ireland is more pathetic that the ones you ranted against in the Racism Thread? Try keep things in perspective.

Funnily, you have something in common with them. You ignore the arguement totally and are very quick to label people who don't conform to your opinions.

Disagree with them = you are a leftist

Disagree with you = you are an ABU


One of the most pathetic statement I have seen on the soccer forum is someone who claims to be a neutral football supporter persistantly claim that they saw G neville throw a punch at an Arsenal Player during last Sundays debacle when such an Incident did not happen.

You are argueing that it didn't happen because the FA didn't punish it. It did happen. It was caught on tape. Neville swung his hand, SKY showed the footage.

Now, I don't know if the FA thought it was innocuous or if Neville wasn't cited in the referees report (AFAIK there is a rule that states that video evidence can only be used if the referee cites the player/incident in his match report).

This doesn't mean it did't happen, as you well know. this just means Neville was lucky.


On My keane comments: If you anyone else does not agree with my opinion thats fine. Other posts on this board and comments elsewhere including from Jack Charlton suggest that you are in the Minority. I was only expressing a personal opinion , we are all entitled to them.

Hey, I'm on the fence with the McCarthy-Keane thing (which has Nothing to do with Utd) but the whole "I wish Ireland had lost" comment was in my personal opinion a pathetic comment. Why, in your opinion, should Keane jnr., Finnan, Duff and Given have been denied the experience over one mans gripe? Can you explain that? How would it have benifited Ireland?

Sykeir l I have no interset in debating with someone who holds such Biased anti Utd Views so to avoid the Flame threads of the past week and in the interest of Boards I will not be replying directly to any of your ABU comments in Future.
I'm not flaming, I'm giving an opinion. If I was to "flame" I might point out that this comment has an uncanny resonance to a style or arguement/denial expressed by a certain humanities poster.

ZENER

Keanes SENDING HOME by Mick McCarthy from Saipan and everything that preceded it was exactly what the FAI needed to stir up some sh*t and prompt an internal enquirey.

The Irish team have always been treated as a meal ticket by the FAI who dined in luxury while our lads were left to train on unsuitable surfaces with substandard equipment.

Unfortunately it looks like the FAI threw the report from that enquirey straight into the bin. While I think Brian Kerr did a great job where he was I really do not rate him as a manager of the Irish senior team. The games that I have seen under his reign could be described as Eircom League at best. The FAI should have sought a Manager with more experience at this level. I think they went to Lidl instead of M&S for the cheapest they could find so they could continue to fly first class on the saving. End of RANT !!!

Now with regard the poor eyesight (or lack of REM sleep) of Skyeirl - the reason the FA did not bring charges against Nevil was because nothing happened to charge him for. Maybe you saw the match in a dream (nightmare) that night in bed and have convinced your self that your dream was reality.

Do us all a favour and drop that incident please. Your theory of - if I keep on saying it it will become true - is getting tiresome at this stage.

Tinky

GuanYin

Originally posted by tinky
Keanes SENDING HOME by Mick McCarthy from Saipan and everything that preceded it was exactly what the FAI needed to stir up some sh*t and prompt an internal enquirey.

The Irish team have always been treated as a meal ticket by the FAI who dined in luxury while our lads were left to train on unsuitable surfaces with substandard equipment.

All true, but I don't think wishing poor results on a team of Irish players who played out of their skin for their country helps or improves matters in any way.

Originally posted by tinky
Unfortunately it looks like the FAI threw the report from that enquirey straight into the bin. While I think Brian Kerr did a great job where he was I really do not rate him as a manager of the Irish senior team. The games that I have seen under his reign could be described as Eircom League at best. The FAI should have sought a Manager with more experience at this level. I think they went to Lidl instead of M&S for the cheapest they could find so they could continue to fly first class on the saving. End of RANT !!!

I don't see that Kerr has done anything wrong. Remember, he lost what, 4-5 senior internationals since he took charge and now has play off qualification in our own hands.

Originally posted by tinky
Now with regard the poor eyesight (or lack of REM sleep) of Skyeirl - the reason the FA did not bring charges against Nevil was because nothing happened to charge him for. Maybe you saw the match in a dream (nightmare) that night in bed and have convinced your self that your dream was reality.

Apart from having seen the TV footage myself.
Are the following news services all suffering from poor eyesight or are they just "leftists" oh, sorry, I mean ABU's aswell.

ESPN Soccernet

While United and defender Gary Neville could be investigated, it is Arsenal who are expected to be the main defendants in the FA dock

Ananova

So while charges for Manchester United and Gary Neville have also been considered, it will be Arsenal's title bid that almost inevitably suffers the most.

The Guardian

http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_Story/0,1563,1048344,00.html

It appears that video evidence actually cleared Neville, who did raise his hand at Parlour. It seems the action was interpretted as defensive, rather than aggresive and that is why he wasn't charged.

Originally posted by tinky

Do us all a favour and drop that incident please. Your theory of - if I keep on saying it it will become true - is getting tiresome at this stage.
Tinky

Do us a favour and get your facts straight. It was Muppet who brought this subject up, not me.

ZENER

Quote:
All true, but I don't think wishing poor results on a team of Irish players who played out of their skin for their country helps or improves matters in any way.

Who's wishing ill on the Irish team ? Not me thats for sure, I sit looking at the telly and cheer them on. I honestly felt that we had a chance in the WC of getting further than we did. But without Keane to kick the others up the a**e on the pitch and to set an example doing what he does best I knew we would not succeed.

Quote:
I don't see that Kerr has done anything wrong. Remember, he lost what, 4-5 senior internationals since he took charge and now has play off qualification in our own hands.

Can you say hands on heart that you've seen spectacular performances of the TEAM since he took over. It was sheer luck not skill that one some of those games, most of the times they were like headless chickens without a leader on the pitch.

Quote:
It appears that video evidence actually cleared Neville, who did raise his hand at Parlour. It seems the action was interpretted as defensive, rather than aggresive and that is why he wasn't charged.

???? So whats your problem, looks like asked and answered to me !!! So much for the theory that the FA didn't ask for the video of that incident. The lad was cleared of all wrong doing.

Quote:
Do us a favour and get your facts straight. It was Muppet who brought this subject up, not me.

You have got to be joking !! in nearly every thread created after that game you have been at pains to remind ...... oh wait - now I get it - it wasn't our fault it was the media/other team/ref/ ... ok got it - wengervision ;-)



Tinky :rolleyes:

brucealmighty

It seems the action was interpreted as defensive, rather than aggresive and that is why he wasn't charged.

So it was a non aggressive punch you saw.

FFS Sykeirl are you unable to accept that you are wrong.
Neville did not,t throw a punch at all.

I think you may be misinterpreting the muppets comments. As I read it he is saying that its a pity the Saipan incident went so far and is not referring to the Irish Team. I May be wrong but that is my interpretation of the posts.

ZENER

Do I hear a penny drop somewhere? Every one else knows what really happened ! Thanks Brucey
- nice to seeya to seeya nice !!

Tinky

ZENER

Sorry for the second post but I think we would have been better off choosing a different manager than Kerr. I'm glad to see the back of Mc Carthy but who is going to fire Kerr when we can take no more ?? I can just hear the cries of - you can't sack Kerr he's one of us, he's Irish.

That will be another episode here on Boards you wait and see.

Tinky

GuanYin

Originally posted by tinky
Who's wishing ill on the Irish team ? Not me thats for sure, I sit looking at the telly and cheer them on. I honestly felt that we had a chance in the WC of getting further than we did. But without Keane to kick the others up the a**e on the pitch and to set an example doing what he does best I knew we would not succeed.

You know, the world doesn't revolve around you. In fact, before you started responding to my threads, I just figured you were some newbie uber-utd supporter, who blindly floowed the herd. Glad you proved me right.

Just to humour you, my post was in response to the muppet who posted this

Originally posted by The Muppet
Its a shame for our national team that it went as far as it did.

Reading back on this, I took the muppet as saying it was a shame that Ireland got as far as they did in the WC.

I think, in retrospect (at least I hope) that he meant that it was ashame taht the Keane-McCarthy fight went as far as it did.

In this case, I apologise to the Muppet, my bad, I took the post up wrong.

Originally posted by tinky
Can you say hands on heart that you've seen spectacular performances of the TEAM since he took over. It was sheer luck not skill that one some of those games, most of the times they were like headless chickens without a leader on the pitch.

You're memory must be short. I remember alot of crappy sloppy games under McCarthy. Iceland anyone? Macedonia? Its been a long tradition that Ireland raises its game against the big teams and never manages to really bury the minnows. Look at the other teams in the group, did they get the same points haul against the so called minnows as we did? No they didn't, which is why we are now in contention again. Ireland have not set the world, alight, I agree, but considering the squad we have now, I couldn't see anyone getting any more out of them.

Originally posted by tinky
???? So whats your problem, looks like asked and answered to me !!! So much for the theory that the FA didn't ask for the video of that incident. The lad was cleared of all wrong doing.

*sigh* I don't have one. When the charges didn't come up against Neville, I didn't make any comment. The Muppet decided to childishly mention it to me in about 3 different threads, including this one. Saying my eyes needed to be tested. In fairness, yes, he was exonarated by the evidence, but from the clib I saw (which is the same one that had EVERY press agency thinking he was going to be charged too) it looked like he threw a punch and didn't connect. He threw his hand out yes, but it was to stop the onrushing Ray Parlour. I was wrong about the punching, but it took an FA panel to look at 3-4 video angles to get it right, what chance had I with the Sky hyped-up media one?

Originally posted by tinky
You have got to be joking !! in nearly every thread created after that game you have been at pains to remind ...... oh wait - now I get it - it wasn't our fault it was the media/other team/ref/ ... ok got it - wengervision ;-)

You really are a little troll.
Can you show me these threads, quoting them in context to prove this statement?

I said, Arsenal deserve everything they get, but certain Utd players really have to look at their roles in it. I cited Van Nist (not for violence, but for unsportingness), Fortune & Neville. Fortune and Lehmann was deemed a scuffle, Neville was cleared, my bad, but it looks that way unless you have the full set of angles on tape. I never sang anything defending Arsenal anywhere. I never said they shouldn't be punished or it wasn't their fault (I in fact said the book should be thrown at them).

Now, I repeat, get your facts straight before you go trolling. It just shows up your mentality.

ZENER

Quote:
You know, the world doesn't revolve around you. In fact, before you started responding to my threads, I just figured you were some newbie uber-utd supporter, who blindly floowed the herd. Glad you proved me right.

---

Fortunately I have the ability to form words - type - and form my own opinions, Utd supporter or not. MY comments were made with respect to others on the thread and as such were relevant and not revolving around me. BTW my eyesight is still 20-20 so I can see the herd ... behind me !

Quote:
Its been a long tradition that Ireland raises its game against the big teams and never manages to really bury the minnows.

---

Sounds a bit like Portsmouth - Charlton et al. We were respected worldwide as a good team that are difficult to play against. This was true several years ago but not anymore I fear. A good team should be able to impose their game on anyone not just raise it for the big guns. BTW your argument falls flat on its face when you consider Russia 4 - 2 ROI, Russia are one of the big boys did we raise our game - no - Russia knew they had won and subsequently eased off knowing so. Even at home we couldn't beat them - one of the places you would expect us to "raise our game" What about the Swiss, they are top of our group, are they not one of the big guns ? they beat us 2-1 in our home ground !!!

Don't get me wrong I'll run up the road bollock naked screaming and cheering if we beat Switzerland on Oct 11th but I just can't see it happening.

Quote:
Look at the other teams in the group, did they get the same points haul against the so called minnows as we did?

That depends on who you consider to be the "minnows" If its Albania & Georgia then Switzerland got 8 points to our 10 but managed 8 goals to our 6 against them. Not a glowing reputation by any terms. Russia were supposed to be vulnerable when we played them at home, one all was all we could manage, and only just.

Quote:
You really are a little troll.

If expressing my opinion or contributing my view to a thread makes me a troll then I plead guilty, along with everyone else who joined this thread with a view of their own. If my point of view is in contrast with the starter of the thread then so be it, but I doubt the instigator thought everyone would fall behind him in an orderly line of yes men. He/she would have hoped for healthy debate - otherwise what's the point ? Maybe YOU should read back over your replies and count the number of times you referred to this incident, even quoting the news that Neville was one of those sure to be reprimanded over the imaginary punch. As I have said in previous posts I am a football supporter first and a Man Utd. fan second. I can take criticism well if its legitimately made, but you prefer to to pick specific points and ignore the ones you know little about and force your view on it in contradiction to everyone else - I guess that makes you a troll too.

Respect to all !

Tinky

GuanYin

Originally posted by tinky
Sounds a bit like Portsmouth - Charlton et al. We were respected worldwide as a good team that are difficult to play against. This was true several years ago but not anymore I fear. A good team should be able to impose their game on anyone not just raise it for the big guns. BTW your argument falls flat on its face when you consider Russia 4 - 2 ROI, Russia are one of the big boys did we raise our game - no - Russia knew they had won and subsequently eased off knowing so. Even at home we couldn't beat them - one of the places you would expect us to "raise our game" What about the Swiss, they are top of our group, are they not one of the big guns ? they beat us 2-1 in our home ground !!!

Regarding the Swiss and Russia away game: We didn't raise our game and subsequently the manager got fired.... and you see this as my argument (which is we are expected to play really well against better teams) falling flat how exactly?

The Russian home game was a poor result for us. Everyone saw it as that, Russia came to shut up shop. Teasm do it and sometimes you can break them down, sometimes you can't. Again, the swiss could only draw at ome to them too.

It should be pointed out that Russia have a far larger pool of players and experienced internationals to draw from that Ireland.

Look at the other teams in the group, did they get the same points haul against the so called minnows as we did?

That depends on who you consider to be the "minnows" If its Albania & Georgia then Switzerland got 8 points to our 10 but managed 8 goals to our 6 against them. Not a glowing reputation by any terms. Russia were supposed to be vulnerable when we played them at home, one all was all we could manage, and only just.

So are you saying that you would rather the 8 points and more goals than the 10 points we got? If not, hen what is your point? We got more points than the other teams could, that constitutes a better performance overall imho, if you have a better definition, please share it.

The key word is "supposed" when you refer to Russia's vunerability. There were three key away games for them. Us, Switzerland and a political local derby with Georgia. They lost the Geogian one, and drew the other two. I'll refer above to Russia's strength and depth compared to ours? Personally I think they are the strongest team in the group. Its all immaterial now, but I'm not sure ho much beter you think Ireland could have done.

Maybe YOU should read back over your replies and count the number of times you referred to this incident, even quoting the news that Neville was one of those sure to be reprimanded over the imaginary punch. As I have said in previous posts I am a football supporter first and a Man Utd. fan second. I can take criticism well if its legitimately made, but you prefer to to pick specific points and ignore the ones you know little about and force your view on it in contradiction to everyone else - I guess that makes you a troll too.

If you read back over this thread, find me the first mention of the Neville incident and who mentioned it ad in what context. The only time I mentioned the Neville incident was in threadsa about the Old Trafford skirmish. Where it belongs. Yet Muppet wants to be childish and petty (as he has done it in multiple threafds, off topic) and goad me. Big deal, he's showing his mentality and if it makes him feel big and mature, fair play to him. In this thread, I was posting about Ireland and their performance, but someone else decided to bring that in as part of their trolling. Now, try get your facts straight (3rd time me telling you this) when you accuse me of "always bringing it up" If you guys are gonna all stick together to harass someone, at least get your stories to match. Now if you are really impartial and trying to be the voice of reason you can read the thread and accept that. Otherwise I have to say that you should really heed the advice in your Sig

The Muppet

I think, in retrospect (at least I hope) that he meant that it was ashame taht the Keane-McCarthy fight went as far as it did.

Correct and Apology Accepted.

I was wrong about the punching,

Thats all I,ve been saying to you ,up to now you wouldn't accept it . If you felt i was baiting you I would like to point out that I have just been replying to you posts.

That ends it for me as I said in the last paragraph of my last post in this thread.

ZENER

Quote:
Its a pity you don't show half the blind unwaivering support for you country as you do for Man Utd.

A clear reference to the aforesaid incident.

Tinky

GuanYin

Originally posted by tinky
Quote:
Its a pity you don't show half the blind unwaivering support for you country as you do for Man Utd.

A clear reference to the aforesaid incident.

Tinky

So you are telling me what I meant now are you?

That was a general comment about the muppets posting. But hey, feel free to waltz in a wet week ago and make unsubstanciated statements all you like.

RasTa

You from Cork Muppet ?
Also you didnt used to be in [DF] or was it [dzr] ?