Isnt our infastructre a mess?

SkepticOne

Originally posted by bonkey
Not to mention re-laying a vast majority of the track in the first place....

I was on the Dublin-Cork line recently, and I couldn't believe how much the carriages were wobbling from side-to-side, even on the so-called straight.

Trying to get from the bar back to my table with 2 drinks was an absolute nightmare!!!

I have found this too. By the fourth or fifth trip to the bar the swaying of the train can get quite bad. This is clear evidence of the poor state of the tracks as the train approaches Cork.

Qadhafi

The Irish Independent
Alan Ruddock
21-September
Another fine mess they have got us into

********************
SEAMUS Brennan, the Minister for Transport, gave us an interesting glimpse of how Irish governments go about their business when he appeared on RTE's Prime Time last week.

The original estimates for Dublin's Luas tram system were, he said, a "back of the envelope" job and it was really unfair to complain that the costs had run away from the estimates because those original costs had been plucked out of thin air.

The true measure of the Luas was the tender price for the job, he said, and that was still on course, give or take a €100m or so. He could have mentioned that we never knew the tender price because it was kept secret by the Rail Procurement Agency for reasons of commercial sensitivity, but that might be nit-picking.

The message was clear: the Irish public service does not have the skill to price major infrastructural projects and we will only ever know the real cost when it goes to tender. And since our public servants have no idea what the true cost should be, they will have no idea of how to assess value when those tenders come in.

So what to do? Pick the cheapest? Go mid-range? Stick a pin in the list? Throw them all in the air and choose the first to hit the ground? Who knows?

Mr Brennan's interview on Prime Time had, at least, the merit of some honesty. Luas, which will deliver two tram tracks covering 25kms from parts of Dublin to different parts of the city centre and a third that will run the few hundred paces from Abbey Street to Connolly Station, will cost close to €800m and should open for business some time next year. The two and a bit lines will probably never link up, and if Mr Brennan was starting with a clean sheet of paper he wouldn't be doing it at all.

And, at the eleventh hour, the minister has realised that running trams across the country's busiest and most congested roundabout might prove problematic. It is, as he said, a mess, but we just have to learn our lessons and, eventually, learn to love Luas.

So what are those lessons? Clearly, we do not have the competence, in government or in the public service, to plan and manage big projects. If Luas has been expensive, poorly planned and sluggishly built, what might we discover if we examined our road-building programme in forensic detail?

Or what about Aer Rianta's massive spending programme at Dublin airport, where hundreds of millions were spent developing new facilities that have done nothing to ease congestion?

More importantly, what credibility can we attach to Mr Brennan's own plans for a metro system in Dublin? Are we to believe that it will cost €2bn, or €4bn or €10bn?

The Luas fiasco - and it cannot be considered anything but - is a startling example of how poorly this country has been managed by successive governments, and it provides yet further proof that Mary O'Rourke, Mr Brennan's predecessor, was one of the most dangerous and incompetent ministers in recent memory. This project is part of her legacy, just as the anarchic chaos that passes for Dublin airport is part of her legacy.

International comparisons can be unfair, but they still provide some context for what we do. On Friday, the Irish Independent noted that the Darwin to Alice Springs railway line in Australia had cost less than Luas for its 1400kms of track, laid through intimidating desert at a rate of some 2kms a day. It was on time, and on budget. The Australian state, through the Federal and local Northern Territories government, contributed about half the cost, with the rest coming from the private sector.

By contrast, London's Jubilee Line Extension cost about seven times more than Luas and covered only 16kms, 12 of them underground. The JLE also includes architecturally stunning stations and carries about 200m passengers a year but it does tend to make Luas look relatively cheap. So how do we know if we are getting value for money?

The clearest signal that we are not was Mr Brennan's assertion that he wouldn't do it if he were starting from scratch. Because of our inability to plan, the Luas was conceived on out-of-date information and was designed to solve a problem for the late Eighties and early Nineties, not the 21st century.

As Garret FitzGerald, the former Taoiseach and committed Luas-sceptic, pointed out in his report in the same programme, the traffic projections that formed the basis of the Luas plan were comically out of date by the time the project was approved. No one, apparently, noticed.

He also pointed out that trams work in cities that have wide boulevards, not the congested, narrow streets that characterise Dublin. Which was why they were ripped up many years ago. So even if Luas turned out to be exceedingly good value for money, and proved to be an exemplar of good project execution, it would still be the wrong solution to Dublin's problems. In other words, a waste of our money.

And, as always, there will be no political price to pay for this frittering away of taxpayers' money. Civil servants, who expect to see their levels of pay benchmarked to the private sector, will not lose their jobs for making poor decisions and no minister will take the fall. The weary watchwords of accountability and transparency will have no place in any post-Luas analysis. Life for those who made the decisions will go on as normal.

The analogy with Dublin airport is valid. Michael O'Leary, the chief executive of Ryanair, is so frustrated with the shambles presided over by Aer Rianta that he is prepared to build a new terminal for €120m and hand it over to the State, for free, so long as it is run by competent people (anyone but Aer Rianta). He will add 20 new routes, guarantee an extra five million passengers a year for Dublin and contribute to the creation of some 5,000 new jobs.

Mr O'Leary has a proven track record of delivering on his promises; the State would get an important asset for free; the economy would benefit and Irish travellers would get the opportunity to fly direct to Europe on low fares. Instead of embracing Mr O'Leary, this government shuns him and embraces the public sector unions who are terrified of competition, of change and of progress. Their mentality shapes this country, and their effective veto on good management diminishes it.

Luas will have served some purpose if it wakes us up to the mismanagement and basic incompetence that characterises the governance of this country, if it forces people like Mr Brennan to realise that good planning and good management are essential prerequisites before public money is spent. It is a lesson so elemental that it that should not need to be learnt, but Luas has shown that we are barely literate when it comes to the basics of how to run a country.

In a rare insight to the workings of the Taoiseach's mind, the Irish Independent also reported last week that "Mr Ahern believes that too much time and money have been wasted through delays on multimillion euro projects around the country and that changes will have to be introduced".

This is the same Mr Ahern who has presided over those projects for the past six years, and is the same Mr Ahern who wanted, above all else, to build a near billion-euro football stadium on the outskirts of Dublin.

If he's serious about change then he must start with himself: he must abandon his cosy embrace of the public sector unions and enforce professional standards of competence within the public sector; he must reach out to the private sector and accept competition; he must recognise that is consumers, not producers and providers of services, who should be paramount.

Otherwise we will have many more projects like Luas: poorly conceived, poorly executed, inappropriate and a waste of taxpayers' money.

Or, as Mr Brennan would say, a mess.

Qadhafi

if this wasnt serious it would be hilarious, somethin you would read in the newspapers about what goes on in Cambodia.

Just looking at what the ministers do, you can get a terrible picture of the fcuk ups made. Bertie hasnt done anything in regards to transport, i.e like take tough decisions on anything.

Take the Metro, Brennan gave out that the €4bn was too much, worked on it then came back all happy that nothing had to be paid till after the metro was up and running. Then we only have to shell out €10bn. Duh !! Buy him a calculator.

Personally I think the entire government has ran out of steam. Its not the government it used to be. There is so much more competiton between countries these days that making a mess of infastructure, education etc is not acceptable and the government is realy struggling.

Lennoxschips

It's also the same Ahern that built a megamall next to the M50. And now people wonder why the M50 is full.

Hmmm.

Qadhafi

Treacy Hogan
Environment Correspondent
The Irish Independent
23-September-2003
****************************
A €700m plan to improve access to Dublin from all parts of the country is to be handed to the Government shortly.

It has been drawn up by the National Roads Authority in the hope of finally ending the capital's gridlock.

The news emerged yesterday as European Car Free Day provided the clearest possible evidence of how bad the problem has become.

Dublin joined hundreds of other cities and towns in an attempt to illustrate the value of leaving the car at home.

But the day was branded an unmitigated disaster with five-mile tailbacks developing along the M50 from the new €23m Westlink bridge - less than 24 hours after it was opened by Taoiseach Bertie Ahern.

Traffic volumes were heavier than usual and Dublin Bus reported no increase in passengers despite offering free travel between 10am and 1pm.

Bus Eireann said its inter-city passengers using the M50 were stuck in delays of up to an hour because of the traffic build-up at the West Link.

The ambitious new plan involves extra lanes on the M50 and a series of multi-lane flyovers.

The proposals are due to get the green light from the board of the National Roads Authority (NRA), the Irish Independent has learned.

New lanes, stretching 30km along the M50 from Sandyford in south Dublin to Dublin airport on the northside, form a key part of the plan.

There will also be a series of flyover "spaghetti junction" links at the Red "Mad" Cow Roundabout, and other chronic interchange bottlenecks where the M50 meets the main roads from Belfast, Sligo, Galway, Cork and Limerick.

After being considered by the NRA board, the plan will go to the Government who will have to sanction the funding. The Government has already made it clear that up to €1.2bn will be available for national roads next year.

Under the blueprint, motorists coming from the Airport who want to go to Cork, for example, will have a dedicated flyover to avoid queueing through three sets of traffic lights at the Red Cow M50 junction.

Other "freeflow" flyovers are in the plan for the M1 Belfast-Dublin intersection with the M50 as these are the two worst bottlenecks.

Michael Tobin, NRA chief executive, said they hoped to have contractors on site within 1½ years of getting the green light with the entire project taking three years to complete.

"This will go a long way to relieving the congestion on the M50 and the interchanges," Mr Tobin told the Irish Independent.

Under the plan:

* There will be extra lanes on the M50.

* Motorists travelling south on the M1 from Belfast will be given a flyover to join the M50 and allow them to head in the Cork direction.

* Motorists heading from the Naas direction towards Dublin who want to turn right at the Red Cow Roundabout and drive towards south Dublin and beyond will have a flyover.

* Drivers who want to exit the M50 and head west will benefit from a new flyover.

bloggs

Originally posted by Qadhafi
if this wasnt serious it would be hilarious, somethin you would read in the newspapers about what goes on in Cambodia.

Just looking at what the ministers do, you can get a terrible picture of the fcuk ups made. Bertie hasnt done anything in regards to transport, i.e like take tough decisions on anything.

Take the Metro, Brennan gave out that the €4bn was too much, worked on it then came back all happy that nothing had to be paid till after the metro was up and running. Then we only have to shell out €10bn. Duh !! Buy him a calculator.

Personally I think the entire government has ran out of steam. Its not the government it used to be. There is so much more competiton between countries these days that making a mess of infastructure, education etc is not acceptable and the government is realy struggling.

I bet we could have got an efficient Japanese construction company to build the likes of the LUAS for half the money in half the time.

Not but it's like the bloody mafia in this country half the money goes to Bertie's friends

bloggs

Originally posted by Qadhafi


Personally I think the entire government has ran out of steam. Its not the government it used to be. There is so much more competiton between countries these days that making a mess of infastructure, education etc is not acceptable and the government is realy struggling.

No it's exactly the government it's always been!!!

Qadhafi

The Irish Times
23-September-2003
****************************

CONTRARY to popular belief the Luas wasn't the first Irish planning disaster. We have a terrific record, second to none, for getting it totally wrong when it comes to infrastructure.

Take the M50 C-ring motorway around Dublin and its money-making West Link bridges as cases in point. When the contract was signed for the tolls back in 1986 the worst case scenario envisaged traffic volumes to grow to 46,000 at most in the years ahead.

The harsh reality is that some 80,000-100,000 unhappy souls spend hours stuck in tailbacks, often five miles long, every day as they queue up to hand over the toll charge allowing them to escape onto open road.

Car Free Day my eye. It was gridlock as usual yesterday as it will be in increasing amounts every day in the run up to Christmas.

And when the Port Tunnel is open another 6,000 trucks will be piling on to the M50 which has already reached "crisis capacity." And we still don't know if that tunnel is high enough to cater for the so-called supertrucks.

Quite simply the biggest and busiest road in the country cannot cope with the volumes of traffic now using it. The only certainty is that the numbers of cars and trucks are going to grow and grow in the years ahead until it can no longer function at peak times without even more horrendous traffic jams, if that is possible.

Planners now realise that there should have been at least one extra lane on the M50. And the nightmarish interchanges which link it with the main roads to Cork, Limerick, Galway, Sligo and Belfast should have been built with full fly-overs which would make it possible for cars to join or leave the motorway without hindering the flow of traffic.

Trucks and cars are stuck every day either on the M50 trying to get off onto the N4 to Sligo and Galway or on the M1 Belfast road vainly attempting to join the M50. Car drivers are stuck in the middle in a maelstrom of frustration, delays and downright anger that planners got it so wrong.

There has been talks for years of providing the extra lanes on the M50 and upgrading the interchanges but it now appears that this is finally taking shape. The National Roads Authority (NRA) is putting the finishing touches to a €700m plan involving such proposals and these are due to go before its board within a matter of months.

But this may simply go the way of so many other plans now gathering dust such as the National Spatial Plan. The battle between motorways and public transport has been won by the roads lobby.

If you add extra lanes you are simply just inviting more cars to join the gridlock. Where does it end? Now two lanes on the M50 possibly three shortly. Why not go for four lanes? The numbers of cars and lorries will rise but public transport remains the poor relation of transport investment. That's the reality as yet another plan is unveiled to the public.

Perhaps it might be far more prudent to invest in our clapped out public transport system. Dublin might be getting a very expensive Luas but the rest of the country is getting absolutely nothing. Michael Tobin, the NRA's chief executive, has admitted that such an ambitious programme will take considerable time. It will take at least one and a half years to get a contractor on site from the moment the plan is approved and another three years after that.

Realistically it will be about ten years before the new look M50 will be finished at which time the numbers of cars and trucks might even necessitate even more alterations of the grand plan.

But if the political will, cash and proper planning is provided the changes could happen even quicker. After all the latest Westlink bridge was built ahead of schedule and within its €23m budget, demonstrating that it can be done. The NRA is acutely aware that their chances of getting significant extra revenue from the Department of Finance is very slim indeed. They will be doing well to hang onto the annual €1.2bn much of which is already earmarked for a variety of new motorway and dual-carriageway projects as well as key by-passes.

Conor Faughnan, the Automobile Association spokesman, favours extra lanes and fully upgraded interchanges to ease the plight of the motoring public. But Mr Faughnan also advocates a far simpler and less costly solution which could happen overnight.

This involves NTR the private company operating the tolled Westlink bridges lifting the barriers to motorists between the peak 7am-9am and 5pm-7pm periods. This would reduce tailbacks on the M50 which frequently stretch all the way back to Firhouse. Even a minor accident effects traffic five miles back.

Under his suggestion the Government which is making far more money than was anticipated back in 1986 from the Westlink bridge would cover the cost of the "happy rush hour" and remove the artificial tailbacks from the toll booths.

The original deal with Westlink in 1987 laid down a level of "franchise fee" that got higher as traffic volumes increases. As a result the AA calculates that the Government each day gets about €65,000 or which is almost €23m a year. Part of that could be rebated back to West Link to cover the cost of raising the barriers at rush hour. The AA believes the bridge will still remain highly profitable for both the Government and NTR.

Perhaps it is also time for Transport Minister Seamus Brennan to implement his radical proposal to sell off the Port Tunnel and the M1 to an agency such as the National Pensions Reserve fund which has indicated its desire to invest in infrastructure.

Alternatively the Government may wish to to hand over the M1 to private operators as is now planned. The intention is that the private consortium would bankroll the final stretch of this road from Dundalk to the Border. Should the government set up State tolls the revenue stream could be used to pay for the road and significantly provide a constant source of cash for other road projects.

In the meantime the only sign of progress for the 100,000 on the M50 is the vehicle in front moving two feet every few minutes. And soon we might well need bypasses of our bypasses.

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I thought this was intresting, yeah there thinking of fixing the M50 with flyovers and interchanges and extra capacity but doesnt that just put more cars on the road? And the roads vs public argument has to be addressed. These news roads are great etc but I just think it will lead to more traffic.

Selling the roads off to private firms is a good idea providing the money is ploughed back into infastructure.

star gazer

Great, new roads. The more roads we build the more things seem to congest. Maybe there comes a point when new roads will be able to handle full rush-hour traffic efficiently. Also it's unfortunate that tolls are the new thing for roads because they just seem to add to the problem in delay-terms.
I agree the luas is looking hap-hazard at best, so maybe it would have been better to spend the €770million on roads. Central Dublin does need public transport though. The density of users and value of land means that new raods aren't feasible. If a worker/consumer/tourist can get to anywhere around central Dublin in a short period of time it would make a real difference(underground).

Lennoxschips

* There will be extra lanes on the M50.

The elastic traffic effect. The more roads there are leading to the suburbs the more people think, "ooh, I can live further away from work thanks to these brand spanking new roads!". 50,000 other people have the same thought and hey presto, the new roads are full six months after they are opened.

Every country in Europe has learned the lesson the hard way that widening motorways does not work. Almost every major city in Europe is investing in city centre public transport on a massive scale and suspending road schemes. But in Bertie's Republic of Texas more lanes are being built. It's ridiculously stupid. Does he want us to relearn the hard lessons that were learned in Europe 20 years ago?

mike65

I'm all in favour of more roads were appropriate but what really needs doing is to bringing ppls work place closer to thier home.

On a related issue e-working is entirely possible now but it seems very few are able/allowed to partake as managerment is'nt able to grasp the idea of thier employers doing a productive days work when beyond thier steely gaze. The govenment must start to encourage home working where feasible through tax breaks to enlightened companies.

Mike.

Qadhafi

€700 million on upgrading the interchanges and provision to put more cars on the road?? where do these people think up these stupid ideas. Proper public transport is the only way to go, its going to take another 10 years before the penny drops with infastructure planners... err duh, we should have looked at rail and bus.

Why cant the government spend some of that cash and invest in rail (because they are thick and stupid ? ?)


Whatabout de-centralising all of the civil servants quicker than the decade long program hence reduce the emphasis on Dublin. Were the most centralised city in Europe. Maybe Ebay might have relocated to Athlone if the governments sole concern wasnt Dublin.