Darkside CTF...

Nexus

Ok seeing as its apparently changed from a team based prize comp to some gay ****in bent random thing does that mean the teams like fh, nd, jb etc get in for free. Cos we were all under the impression that thats the way the ctf would be pld. Its kinda a ****in joke if fh, nd, jb all go and dont really play as a team as we have been sold out by dardoz and whoever else is running it. There is no incentive for us to play otherwise, i would run around tryin to get ronan with the gauntlet otherwise. This is a ****in joke. Dont come up with this crap about the majority decided, thats bull as we(the teams) didnt want this crap. Im so sick of all this say one thing do another bull**** that seems to always ****in happen.

But to be fair dardoz did get a **** load of pressure from all those muppets who are scared of a bit of competition so i dont really blame him for all of it, more for the muppets who ruined the lan i was lookin forward to. He did apologise for giving us the wrong impression which was very decent of him,
but
I wont be entering the tourney,
not sure if ill even bother goin now.

fh|Nex

saik

i only copped it the other day. i had the wrong impression for ages. i only got it when someone pointed it out on irc. and aye, very disappointing. but for the fact im dying for some quake, the prize ctf clan thing is the only reason i signed up, that and maybe seeing everyone. i can invite the lads over and play quake in my house, and not pay for it (pathetically cheap student)

personally i think everyone deseves a shot at the prize if they deserve a prize. i reckon some spaz who gets totally carried by his 3 teammates doesnt. winning is everything, and far far far more 'fun' than losing ctf, and these guys get in the way of it.

now its just any other lan with an annoying random ctf cup with people who have the potential to be very annoying. the random ctf thing might be fun, i wont rule it out like, but ffs a proper one would have rocked big time. the DARKSIDE CUP CLAN CTF thing wont be as competitive now, ah well. these muppets seem to have it easy on lans - in the interest of fun. IN MY DAY, the fun was getting battered till u got better and then doing some battering yourself. if you get put off or give up cos of a beating then u are better off not playing.

its yere prizes, ye can do what ye like with them. i might enter the ctf tourney with muppet teams if i get bored. dardoz said sorry, he told me what went on, fair enough, just wasnt what i expected tho.

Kairo

Ah wtf? when was this decided? Nobody even THINK of dropping out.

Dar, fix this...please.

Zero

Well, as dan pointed out, they buy the prizes and run the lan, they can do what they like with the prizes. But sure why would they make a big deal out of a clan competition, you need clans first :

- Fishheads are going, be it one team or two.
- Jobos, if I hear things correctly these days are pretty much like Bio, that the majority of their players are brits, so a JB team at darkside will not be nearly their full team.
- nD who havent played for 8 months may possibly have 4 players at this lan, who probably won't be playing together.

Isnt that it? You can hardly complain that the Darkside organisers wont put up a prize for whichever FishHeads team manages to beat the shit out of Jobos the most? I'm getting broadband soon and myself and Rapier are starting a tdm clan, and cant wait to get practising and go to lans for wars etc but at the moment the sum total of active "irish" clans is two, one of which wont have a half-strength team at the lan. Instead of complaining about it try and look at it from the positive side, the reason they are doing it like they are is to promote Quake3 in Ireland, there are a bunch of muppets going to this lan, they are all going to play Quake in a competition where they get to play with deadly players like yourselves and they might even win a prize. With the increasing availability of broadband, you might find that a few of these players will play regularly. There's no point getting thick about it, and they certainly arent going to let you in for free. They might give your fans a reduced rate tho.

zAbbo

well i was looking forward to playing leet team, i mean thats how u get better innit.

Can someone point me to where its stated that the format is changed.

Apart from the CTF Cup there is loadsa time to play some clan ctf, i mean the lan is 36hrs long.

And how random is random? seeds?

Zero

yeah thats the thing, its the same, just no prize for the clan games. and yeah, random teams would be seeded. We had great crack in UL when we ran the seeded teams. And theres loads of time for clan games anyway.

DeVore

I have to say I agree with Zero. Which must be a first for nD given that dont agree on anything except that Koopa is part camel.

We did this at Megalan and we got a lot of complaints from the better players. However it turned the comp from being a showcase of DNC ninjaness to an actual get-down-and-fight-for-it competition which got the blood pumping. Turned out to be the best thing at the lan in my (and many other people's) opinions.

It also gets people into the game as Zero says and ***, Quake 3 is in a poorly state here (due in large part to the net-code which sucks like a two-dollar ho strung out on crack).

I'd LOVE to see FH versus The Best Of The Rest as a demo game though... could be savage!

Anyway, I go to lans to catch up with old mates more then play

DeV.

Kairo

JB could take any team FH throw at us ,and its 4v4, which for everyone, is pretty much unfamiliar territory.

I don't care about the prizes or wheter they're given in the seeded or clan tourney. Just don't all the regular quakers dropping out like last time.

Also, who's gonna be pulling off the seeding of the teams? Or is it gonna be completely random?

wee.

weemcd

shouldnt there be a poll to deside on the comps???

Illkillya

Originally posted by Zero
yeah thats the thing, its the same, just no prize for the clan games.

I'll try not to say much since I outlined all of my views in a different thread: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=112616 . But Zero, this is not the same. Personally I don't care about the prizes, what I care about is the competition which is brought about by the presence of a prizes. If you make this an official tourney with something worth playing for, teams actually make an effort. For one thing, mercenaries like Koopa will take part, but more importantly, any group of friends that enters a team gets to enjoy the experience of a competitive LAN CTF tournament.

My first game for the q3 clan Irish Rangers was in the IQ3CL against Se7en. If anyone doesnt remember, IR were utterly useless, and had woeful connects, but we made out pathetic attempt at forming some tactics, and had the satisfaction of seeing them fail in game as we got raped by a better organised and much more skilled clan Se7en. It does not matter in the least that we had no chance of winning this game, every quad we stole from 14ping Osiris was a victory in itself. In fact, I enjoyed the competitive league experience so much, that I (recently moved on from keyboard, still learning to strafe) signed up an IR team for the Irish QW CA league where I was far more vulnerable fodder, but organised a team with tactics and attempted teamplay, and thoroughly enjoyed it.

If you don't get the point I'm trying to make - it is that there is a level of competition which cannot exist in a pickup tourney, and it is the source of the most intense enjoyment that gaming can provide. In a new or vibrant gaming scene this level of competition is generated when clans play each other for pride, but these days the only way to reproduce a buzz in Irish games is with prizes. I was looking forward to playing for FH against the newly formed allstar team of Melachi, Koopa, Dardoz, Mindphuck.. or watch Bunny's team tear apart JB's defence, but without prizes, what is the incentive for these guys to bother? Certainly not a name ingraved in a cup... this would be meaningless even to FH, since if we did win it, we wouldn't be coming to defend it at Darkside VIII.

Nothing in q3 compares to clan games... if you want to promote Quake3 in Ireland as Zero says, then what better way than to allow a group of Waterforders (for example) a taste of what its all about... a real league; the chance to see your team succeed and fail in a competitive environment.

I was saying to carl33to on IRC, there are 2 types of LANs, there are pickup/messabout LANs where you get to meet your online mates and have a laugh, and then there are LANs with a focus, a competitive tourney that is immortalised in demos and the memory of the great competition or the 1 frag win in overtime in the final. I, personally, am not interested in the former. If I want a pickup or a messabout, I can play online. It is good to meet up with your clanmates and all that, and funny to mock them in real life, but to me it is definitely not worth 7 hours on the train from Cork and €100 euros. However, for the promise of a competitive clan tournament on LAN in an exciting and up-and-coming game style, q3 ctf 4v4, I wouldn't have to think twice.

Since this prospect no longer exists I am wondering why I will go to the bother. I feel bad for persuading Cascade to take time off work and come all the way from Belfast, and I feel bad about pressuring dest from Wicklow, since I know he gets bored in messabout lans, although I'm sure he would have enjoyed a LAN with many competitive clan games. I understand why Nex is pissed off, since he is faced with the same dilemma - is this worth taking time off work, and spending 7 hours on the train and €100?

No disrespect to the Darkside organisers - you have been doing a great job I'm sure, the LANs you've held in the past which had a competative focus seemed very successful. I downloaded demos of a Darkside LAN where melachi won the final of the 1v1 tourney - this event was monumental in Irish q3, I was unfortunately out of the country at the time and could not attend. I'm sure your messabout LANs (I call darkside VII a messabout LAN since there is no competitive focus if the primary tournament is a pickup) are equally successful, but it would not appeal to me. I would rather pay the extra €100 euro and fly to a UK LAN to play for my TDM clan. I'll won't cancel my signup just yet, since theres some hope for FH vs nD TDM, or maybe a 1v1 tourney in q3 or qw which might bring enough spark to the event to justify my travelling there, but it is disappointing that the LAN didn't turn out as originally promised.

carl_

a 1v1 / 2v2 q3 compo would be nice.. there would be enough good players to make it interesting compared to the ctf where only 1/2 teams are going.

i dunno about the others but i couldn't care less about prizes. all i need is for someone to organise a compo. Once it has the structure of a competition etc. people will be interested I reckon.

just one thing : if you make a 1v1 tourney, fix it so you aren't knocked out after only one or two maps (unless you are really crap)... I met melachi in my second game at darkside5

Zero

I do see your point Killy and I obviously agree with pretty much most of what you say, when it comes to q3 all us nerds are cut from the same cloth etc. But I also see the point of the seeded teams and gettin everyone involved. But then again Im biased because I know my team effectively hasnt existed for 8 months and arent exactly geared up for a big lan so its more an individual interest that each of us have in going to this.
I can obviously see that its annoying when you have your team all geared up and organised for a lan comp only to find that its not happening like that or at least there is no importance put on it. But theres also no point in a competition that really is no competition at all. I really only said what I said above because Norm coming on cursing and swearing about it is something that annoys anybody who gets off their ass to organise something, thats doesnt help anyone.

Zero

and we'd love an FH-nD TDM if we have 4. looking unlikely tho.

BioHazRd

Jaysus, I go away for a week, and look what happens.

I think we ned to get a few things straight. There will be a clan competition, but not for the big prizes that people may have originally thought. (At this moment, we are not sure if we have ANY prizes, but that will be sorted by the end of next week)

There will be a seeded competition which gives everyone a fair chance. Sure, you may whine about having to carry a noob on your team, but then, so does everyone else.

The decision to do it this way was made because, we figured, why should everyone pay into the LAN (remember, there are 70 people going) in order to fund the prizes for FH, because lets face it, nobody else would even get a look in. To be blunt, it wouldnt be fair on the people who have come to Darkside LANs over the past two years to have to pay for prizes that were going to a crowd of guys who only go if it's worth their while (no offense intended)

In order to ease the pain that you guys are obviously feeling, I decided to get a cup and have that as the prize for the clan challenge. I understand that you are disappointed that you won't be able to claim the 4 great prizes (whatever they will be....), and I understand that a lot of you take your game VERY seriously, but to say that you won't go now, in my opinion, is verging on the childish. I am offering to facilitate you at a LAN, where you can come, and play against each other at the highest level that you can. In my view, it shouldn't be about the prizes, but about the competing.

The Darkside LANs have always been about people coming and enjoying themselves - and I would do my utmost to see that everyone does. If you feel that you have been let down, I apologise. But if you feel that it is not worth going to the LAN because the lack of prizes, then I am sad to say, the Darkside is not the place for you.

Bio

Illkillya

Bio I must not have made myself clear enough in my posts, or else you didn't bother to read them.

Originally posted by BioHazRd
There will be a seeded competition which gives everyone a fair chance. Sure, you may whine about having to carry a noob on your team, but then, so does everyone else.

The decision to do it this way was made because, we figured, why should everyone pay into the LAN (remember, there are 70 people going) in order to fund the prizes for FH, because lets face it, nobody else would even get a look in. To be blunt, it wouldnt be fair on the people who have come to Darkside LANs over the past two years to have to pay for prizes that were going to a crowd of guys who only go if it's worth their while (no offense intended)

Why should 700 casual gamers enter insomnia LANs in UK when there will be 200 experienced competitive players there to swoop up the prizes?
Why did Spaceman go to the Darkside V, primarily for the 1v1 when he clearly had no hope of finishing in the top 5?

The majority of the people are entering this LAN whether they have a shot at the prize or not. If you feel you owe it to your loyal LAN attendees to give them a chance of winning, then I respect that (although I would recommend a raffle, rather than wasting several hours running a meaningless pickup competition which would be predetermined from the outset because of uneven seedings).

In order to ease the pain that you guys are obviously feeling, I decided to get a cup and have that as the prize for the clan challenge. I understand that you are disappointed that you won't be able to claim the 4 great prizes (whatever they will be....)

It is disappointing that you have to resort to insults. I have stressed in every post so far that it is not about the prizes, but the competition. I even repeated it specially just to prevent some dimwit coming along and posting exactly what you just did.

If you insist that the secondary clan CTF competition is to ease our "pain", then please cancel it before you waste money on a cup. We are feeling no pain, if Nex gets pissed off in the least then he will make his feelings known bluntly (you should welcome honest feedback) and most people know by now that I am quite happy to post a 4 page reply to any trivial argument. Mild disappointment is the most intense emotion any of us could be feeling; the pain could only develop if we take a weekend off work and spend 7 hours on the train before lugging half a computer around Dublin to spend 3 days cramped up with a load of nerds playing boring games and pickups.

and I understand that a lot of you take your game VERY seriously, but to say that you won't go now, in my opinion, is verging on the childish. I am offering to facilitate you at a LAN, where you can come, and play against each other at the highest level that you can. In my view, it shouldn't be about the prizes, but about the competing.

See above. If you still think our reasons for not attending are childish then please tell me so I can flame you for being stupid (and btw, none of us decided that we wouldn't go).

The Darkside LANs have always been about people coming and enjoying themselves - and I would do my utmost to see that everyone does. If you feel that you have been let down, I apologise. But if you feel that it is not worth going to the LAN because the lack of prizes, then I am sad to say, the Darkside is not the place for you.

Bio

For the 1000th time, I have always said that it is not about the prizes, but about the COMPETITION. I DO feel that it is not worth going to a LAN because of the lack of competition. I agree that the general Darkside LAN is not for me; didn't I say that in my previous post? This is why I havent been going to them regularly. I'm repeating myself too much replying to you; if you had read my posts to begin with then there would be no need for this reply. I agree with Zero, and nothing good can come from this negativity, it is not helping anything. I posted first to clarify the situation from my point of view, and now mostly to respond in kind to Biohazard's insulting post in the hope that he might think before he writes.

BioHazRd

Illkillya,

I did read your posts, and everyone elses - my reply was not directed at you specifically.

On your first point, yeah, a lot of people go to the LAN purely to have a bit of fun, and dont even bother entering the comps. The thing is, I was asked to run a Q3 competition at this LAN - and not by somebody who would be well known. As for the seedings they will be done as fairly as possible. At the end of the day. I am only interested if the people competing have a bit of fun. It may even be possible that the lowest seeded player on a team may turn out to be quite handy. It also puts some pressure on the team leader to organise his team in the most effective manner - wich I believe could make for some interesting gameplay.

As for my "insult", I am sorry you took it that way, but my comment was directed at others. I have only seen this thread for the first time all week, and as such, felt obliged to reply to every point that I saw. I just couldn't be arsed using quotes.

The problem here in my opinion is that everybody has a view on how this competition / LAN should be run. I appreciate feedback of all types, and when it's due, I will graciously accept negative feedback. At the end of the day, there was a fuck up in organising the competition, and as main organiser, I have to take responsibility for that.

I would still like to see a vicious competition between the clans, but at this point I am wondering if it will even happen from what I read here. Yes I agree with your point that it should not be about the prizes, but I also see what you mean about the mercs only playing or raising their game for prizes.

Maybe this is not the place to discuss the finer details, so if you want to talk to me, pm me and I will give you my mobile no.

I just dont like sorting out my dirty linen in public - it will only detract from the rest of the LAN, and I dont really have the time to be posting arguments for a few muppets here, when I actually agree with what some of you are saying.

Bio

Nexus

I love ronan!

Vincent

norm you slapper!

Kairo

Originally posted by BioHazRd
In order to ease the pain that you guys are obviously feeling, I decided to get a cup and have that as the prize for the clan challenge.

Still didn't answer my question. Who will be doing the seedings for the pickup tourney?

Zero

Jesus leave it out will ye?
Blah, there'll be a seeded competition at the lan, there will also be clan games at the lan. Nex's problem seems to be that there is no monster prize for FH, but Killy seems to not care about the prize thing and just wants to get in a lot of clan games and not have the seeded comp taking over everything. Which it wont. So now killy you dont have a problem. Nex, no prize for your l33t skills Im afraid, you might as well not bring your entourage this time. BioHazard is sound, this is a big net nerd mixup, just talk about it at the lan. Happy?

Nexus

Nope

Zero

lies