1 Month in Jail

bloggs

http://www.examiner.ie/breaking/2003/09/19/story114124.html

Although i disagree with the bin-tax, i can't say im not the tiny bit smug to see Joe going to jail

Sleipnir

ah it's a bit much.
Lawlor gets a week for perjury (which I believe is as serious as treason in law?) and tax evasion.
Where he's segregated from all the other prisoners, gets to use the gym on his own, has a guard with him 24hrs and has his mobile and laptop with him.

And these guys get a month for protesting.

it's all about who you know.

mike65

A pity not cos part of me don't want Higgins to have an intimate dance with Bubba and company but because he will have become a feckin martyr to the "neverending class war cause".

I see full wheelie bins casting off thier tags and throwing themselves at representatives of the ruling classes!

Mike.

sixtysix

this bin campaign is all about getting joe higgins reelected. if he succeeds in getting the bin tax derailed it can only add to the level of direct taxation, most of which is born by the paye sector anyway.

star gazer

I think Joe Higgins is one of the most potent politicians Ireland has and it is symptomatic of the pert-time Dáil that we have that a TD has no legitimate forum to protest for half the year. It is also the case that legislation brought through this year took the power to set waste charges away from elected councillors to city managers.
Having said all that Joe H is wrong in what he is doing and should behave like the law-maker he is not a law breaker. If he has a problem with the waste charges why didn't he disrupt the Dáil when it was bringing the legislation in. It is an opportunistic stunt, that will jsut distance the socialist party from any real power (ie govt)

Villain

Originally posted by sixtysix
this bin campaign is all about getting joe higgins reelected. if he succeeds in getting the bin tax derailed it can only add to the level of direct taxation, most of which is born by the paye sector anyway.

I think you mean:

This bin tax campaign for joe higgins is all about getting himself re-elected.

The campaign for the people it's affecting (i.e. the working class people) is to stop another taxation by a government that due to its mis managment feels its just and right to tax the working class while licking the well off's arses.

The Muppet

Its disgraceful that these two should go to jail for representing their electorate. Others will pay at the polling stations next time.
I thought part of democracy was the right to peaceful protest.
BTW I pay my bin tax as I believe in the polluter pays policy. I just dont agree with what happened in the high court today.

Sand

Good.

Glad to see that finally courts are willing to hold protestors responsible for their actions. Only a pity they didnt get more.

Boston

Originally posted by Sand
Good.

Glad to see that finally courts are willing to hold protestors responsible for their actions. Only a pity they didnt get more.

hmm wonder if you would say that if you knew who was let out of prison for these two to be but behind bars. Yes lock up people for protesting, and shot people for throwing stones, thats what your into, isn't sands.

Personally coming from a high crime area i'm discussed to see anybody gettign a month in jail for such a meaningless thing while drug dealers walk my streets due to lack of resources

Villain

Originally posted by Boston

Personally coming from a high crime area i'm discussed to see anybody gettign a month in jail for such a meaningless thing while drug dealers walk my streets due to lack of resources

Well said Boston great Point

I bet you, you could beat up an old woman and get a less sentence, or sell 14 year old kids some hash.

Boston

caught selling hash, sure it wouldn't ever even get the court

Sand

hmm wonder if you would say that if you knew who was let out of prison for these two to be but behind bars. Yes lock over people for protesting, and shot people for throwing stones, thats what your into, isn't sands.

Thats right Boston.

Personally coming from a high crime area i'm discussed to see anybody gettign a month in jail for such a meaningless thing while drug dealers walk my streets due to lack of resources

Mustve been one tough case to crack. I heard they assembled a 60 strong team of detectives and 100 gardai to job of bringing Joe "Kaiser Sose" Higgins down.

The only outrage is the fact that it took such a short time to jail Higgins when there are backlogs of literally years in other cases.

Boston

Sorry Sands i must have my priorities messed up, political prisoners should allways be put before arresting actual criminals who mess real people up. you arguements don't wash with moi.

gurramok

Agree with Boston on this one.
They were very quick to jail them for a month for peaceful protest yet local thugs only get a slap on the wrist for the gravest of crimes.

What should of been done is a fine imposed rather than jail as 2 prison spaces could be opened up for the real scum that ply the streets.

Justice system is a joke, this case proves it yet again.

Cork

Originally posted by The Muppet
Its disgraceful that these two should go to jail for representing their electorate.

People should pay for their waste. Who will pay for Mr. Higgins stay in Prison?

Many socialists across Europe support local tax. But Joe does not.

But he should respect the law. People across Ireland pay for refuse. The polluter pays. Should we start evading tax?

I think since the abolishion of rates - local services need funding.

Dampsquid

They were very quick to jail them for a month for peaceful protest yet local thugs only get a slap on the wrist for the gravest of crimes.

They were ausing a public health risk, they deserve to go to prison, and if more of them still protest, i hope they go to prison too.

secret_squirrel

Originally posted by Dampsquid
They were ausing a public health risk, they deserve to go to prison, and if more of them still protest, i hope they go to prison too.

Oh get real a few uncollected bins and bag..yea that will bring the plague back.

Anyone who doesnt think the bin tax is the thin end of a local taxation wedge is a naive fool. We pay too much in central taxation as it is with out adding local taxation too.

Im for paying for what you throw away in principle but how long before the charges go up to pay for some local councillors vanity project?

And 4 weeks is a joke compared to what that scumbag Lawlor got

The only problem I have with the anti-bin tax campaigners is that it seems synonymous with the socialist party..(especially that loon Clare Daley) which Im sure has put a lot of people off. I live in a relativly well off area...only about 10% of the bins are tagged. If we could get those sort of people protesting to there would be a chance of beating the tax.

AngelofFire

i think its an absolute disgrace. The likes of Liam Lawlor and michael Lowry can get away with swindling millions of pounds worth of tax at a time when the country had no money but Joe higgins has to go to jail for protesting against a tax that doesnt need to exist during a time of considerable prosperity.

Joe is a true marytr im not a socialist party supporter but i have always admired joe higgins. Many cynics say he is trying to get himself relected. I disagree i remember when he came in for a talk at my school he discussed a variety of international issues such as the cost of HIV treatment Drugs in the 3rd world. He is genuinly intersted in every issue he persues.

The bin tax is a farce. We pay n uff income tax as it is why should we have to pay for something that is a necessity like garbage disposal. In 5 years time we`ll have to pay for drinking water maybe even oxygen.

If the authorities are short of money they should go after the rich farmers and bussiness men instead of putting more cost on the overburdned Paye sector.

Éomer of Rohan

I'm not even getting into an argument on this; the double taxation is preparation for the Irish government to farm out the collection of waste to private companies who will in turn try to break the union involved in the collection thereof, reducing standards of work and more than likely wages nothing more.

That ANYONE can sit and say that a peaceful, non-violent form of protest deserves anyone arrested is outrageous and I will be joining hundreds of my comrades in Dublin tomorrow for the protests to make the point clear.

I emailed Sean Dolphin about the whole charade - needless to say he was less than helpful and more than a little sarcastic. Bastard.

One other thing, Joe Higgins and Clare Daly could not care less about re-election - I know both personally and that's more than the rest of you can say. They want what is best for the working class (and in many cases middle class!) people of Ireland, whether in the Fingal area or out of it.

I have nothing but disdain for anyone who can sit and say that they s****** or look down on what we are trying to do because most of those people haven't the intelligence or the balls to do it themselves - to stand up for those poorer than themselves who, while they sit and s******, might not be able to afford this new tax.

Éomer of Rohan

Why is s_n_i_g_g_e_r a blocked word?

Éomer of Rohan

Northern trade union leaders call for protests at jailing of Bin Tax campaigners

The jailing of Socialist Party TD Joe Higgins and Cllr Clare Daly for one month for their refusal to cease campaigning against the bin tax in Dublin is an attack on working class peoples rights to protest against injustice.

Both Joe and Clare were elected to the Dail and Fingal County Council respectively with a mandate to oppose the introduction of bin charges and to represent the thousands of families who are opposed to bin charges. Bin Charges are a form of double taxation.

Under the present Southern Government, more than 80% of all income tax is collected from the working class under the PAYE system. PAYE workers do not object to paying for the service but certainly do object to paying twice.

The agenda of the establishment is to defeat resistance to the bin tax, make the tax collectible, reintroduce the hated water charges and bring local taxation up to the 1000 euro a year mark.

The Government and the Councils try to portray the tax as an environmentally friendly measure based on the principle that "the polluter pays". However, the point is that the polluter manifestly does not pay in the southern State. A couple of years ago total national waste came to 80 million tonnes. Of this, a mere 1.2 million tonnes was accounted for by household waste. Most of the rest was accounted for by big business and agriculture. Yet ordinary householders were hit with service charges and big business was rewarded with the lowest corporate tax rates in Europe.

The jailing of Joe Higgins and Clare Daly for fighting for the rights of working class people is been met with outrage throughout the country. This is at the same time that millionaire tax dodgers have been found to have cheated the tax man of a small fortune by hiding money in offshore Ansbacher bank accounts. Not a single Ansbacher Man has seen the inside of a prison cell.

The defeat of the bin charges in the South would also be a victory for working people in Northern Ireland. Campaigns are presently being built across the North to organise non-payment of the planned water charges which are also designed to financially cripple working class people even further.

We are calling for workers throughout Northern Ireland to protest and show solidarity with Joe and Clare and with the working class people of Dublin fighting the bin tax.

Yours,

Carmel Gates, NIPSA President (personal capacity)

Padraig Mulholland, NIPSA General Council member (personal capacity)

Brian Booth, NIPSA General Council member (personal capacity)

Kevin Lawrenson, NIPSA General Council member (personal capacity)

Paul Dale, NIPSA General Council member (personal capacity)

Mary Cahillane INTO Executive member

Gordon McNeill,

Madan Gumpta,

Chris Bowyer, sacked airport shop stewards

Jim Barbour, FBU Executive Committee

Jim Quinn FBU, Chairperson NI

Tony Maguire, Belfast Trades Council

Anton McCabe, Omagh Trades Council

Mickey Duffy, NIPSA Fermanagh & Tyrone Health Branch

Harry Hutchinson, Secretary T&GWU Mid-Ulster & West Branch

Peter Hadden,

Gary Mulcahy,

Ciaran Mulholland,

Northern Regional Executive Committee, Socialist Party

bugler

Why is s_n_i_g_g_e_r a blocked word?

It isn't, but take away its 's' and you get a word that is.

These jailings show that politicians are not above the law in Ireland. I nearly typed that with a straight face.

Éomer of Rohan

It shows that politicians who are not a willing prostitute to the ruling class are not above the law.

The Muppet

They were very quick to jail them for a month for peaceful protest yet local thugs only get a slap on the wrist for the gravest of crimes

This point was perfectly illustrated to anyone who saw that little girl from tallagh on the Late late Last night.

Initally posted by cork

People should pay for their waste. Who will pay for Mr. Higgins stay in Prison?

I said in my inital post that i agreed with the polluter pays principle. I dont agree that anyone should go to jail for the henious crime of peaceful protest.

Sand

Sorry Sands i must have my priorities messed up, political prisoners should allways be put before arresting actual criminals who mess real people up. you arguements don't wash with moi.

Hey Boston, Im in favour of locking up lawbreakers full stop. Whether you think its okay to commit certain crimes or not. Higgins willfully broke the law. The court can then decide to punish him or we might as well abandon law and order and tell everyone to go home as you only have to obey the law when you feel like it.

Just because youre on a protest doesnt mean you can suddenly decide the law no longer applies to you.

Theres no either/or here. Punishing Higgins did not significantly hinder the Gardais chances of catching other law breakers.

Villain

Originally posted by Dampsquid
They were ausing a public health risk, they deserve to go to prison, and if more of them still protest, i hope they go to prison too.

Well if you get robbed or have your child beaten up and then have the DPP say they they won't proceed with the case you might look differently.

Politicians have done a lot worse in this country and got away with it.

Lawlor only got a week for gods sake

oneweb

Originally posted by Éomer of Rohan
Why is s_n_i_g_g_e_r a blocked word?

Hyper-sensitive censor.

Anyway, it is a disgrace that it comes to this. That Mr. Higgins has had to go to such lengths to express his and the views of much of the average householder - and still be ignored.

What really pissed me off was Aherne calling non-payers spongers :mad: Er, I seem to recall generous self-payrises, massive purchases (another jet, anyone?), personal projects (millions spent, nothing material to show for it) et al, sponging off taxpayer's hard-earned money, which is supposed to be used for the running and improvement of the country's infrastructure and services to benefit 4 million people, not 40. :rolleyes: But I digress.

Shambles. At least some people have the guts to stick to their beliefs and not be scared out of them.

Cork

Originally posted by secret_squirrel

Anyone who doesnt think the bin tax is the thin end of a local taxation wedge is a naive fool. We pay too much in central taxation as it is with out adding local taxation too.

We are not heavily taxed compared to EU tax rates. People expect to pay for the waste thay produce. The government is surposed to dispose of it.

Waste disposal costs money. The polluter does have to pay. Joe Higgins should have been fined. How much will it cost to keep this individual in prison?

Many socialists across Europe back local taxation. How much does it cost to rent a refuse truck for a week? If a lorry is held up - the protesters should pay for it.

The IFA got a massive fine for protesting in front of meat factories - I think J Higgins got off pretty light.

What really pissed me off was Aherne calling non-payers spongers Er, I seem to recall generous self-payrises, massive purchases (another jet, anyone?), personal projects (millions spent, nothing material to show for it) et al, sponging off taxpayer's hard-earned money, which is supposed to be used for the running and improvement of the country's infrastructure and services to benefit 4 million people, not 40. But I digress.

The government is not buying new jets. But is it acceptable people not to pay for charges for items they consume? There is a seperation of powers of politics & the courts. Who pays Mr. Higgins salary? The people of Cork are paying refuse charges for years. Most accept these charges.


Yet, when charges are imposed in sections of our capital - there is outcry.

Biffa Bacon

I agree. People who break the law should not be punished. The authorities should always turn a blind eye to flagrant law-breaking if it's politically convenient for them to do so. After all, from paedophile priests to tax-dodging Taoisigh, that's what's made this country great.

RainyDay

Higgins wasn't locked up for a peaceful protest. He is, of course, quite entitled to protest peacefully & democratically on this matter. He is not entitled to obstruct bin lorries which are collecting waste from those who have chosen to pay their tax and create a health hazard for many communities.

Comparisons with Lawlor, Lowry, paedophiles are irrelevant. The judge didn't have a choice of Higgins or Lowry yesterday. He had the choice of jailing Higgins or not jailing Higgins. He chose to jail Higgins.

SkepticOne

I disagree with bin charges. I think it should be paid out of general tax revenue.

I've not problem with Higgins going to jail if he broke the law.