editing pak files

OSiriS

"What's new in Quake3Arena really besides the graphics?? Fancy graphics make games look better with more atmosphere etc"

Actually it's the music and sound effects which create most of the atmosphere...just listen to doom, the music in that game has you afraid to turn the next corner, and it is the one reason that doom is still better than quake. Film makers had known this fact for decades, but they too are slipping into the fancy looks and **** the sounds, which is why there are so few decent films being released these days...

LoLth

Just one teensy weensy opinion on this. I haven't played Q3 yet and won't be able to until I get a 3d card . But I agree with EWJ about the rocket trails. I think they would make a great tactical (read sneaky *******) contribution.

Trapped? Cut off? Can't hit that ninja who's following you?
You need to launch the new 'smoke-trailer'tm from Rocks'R'US! Just a couple of these little puppies carefully hurtled into a nearby wall (warning, producers take no responsibility for muppets killing themselves with splash damage), duck into the smoke and hoof it before your opponent knows where you've gone! Save your team mate! Lay down supressing fire to screen a withdrawal/quad run , create distractions. Campers! your time has come! The new 'smoke trailer'tm trail stays in the air so firing and hiding is a thing of the past!Your opponent simply has to follow the trail right back to li'l johnny boy scout.

*disclaimer: none of the above can be guaranteed as your opponent MAY have (quite legally) removed 'smoke trails'tm from the game. This is likely to result in loss of orientation as opponent easily picks you off despite nice ziggy zaggy runs and random turnings, frustration as opponent screws you up yet again, and swearing as HIS rock seem to use 'smoke trails'tm . Of course you could

a: call him a cheating little **** who would never beat you if he had the guts to use 'smoke trails'tm

b: remove your own 'smoke trails'tm and take away from that Q3 smokey flavour.

c: give up, destroy your computer in a fit of picque and set fire to something thus signing up for 'smoke trails RL'tm , a subsidiary of Arson enterprises ltd. and Penal Colony One Way Ticket master inc.
- be sure to view their splendid range of shower protection devices, matches, tin cups, and non-removable hermetically sealed Butt Plugs.

earthworm_jim

After giving it a fair bit of thought I think it's cheating too. Like you said Koops you only edit the pak to create a new mod. Makes no sense so to play with one pak against another different one.

Anyway, I'm bored with this thread.

Koopa

yeah chubby, you are dead right , there are NO new tricks, other than what you might know already. stop bothering us if you dont even play the game.

Chubby

Bleh, but this is a discussion about pak editing, not specifically about Quake1. I've stopped playing Quake ages ago, gave up Quake2 recently, checking out Quake3 now so yes, I DO play Quake. If you're being sarcastic there, what new tricks have you found in Quake recently? Tricks within the game, not more hacking, pak editing or cheating stuff.

---

You gonna to finish that?
*munch*munch*

Koopa

tell ya what, play me, and ill show you some of them. I'll be on tomorrow night on irc.quake.ie, channel #quake.ie, talk to me then...

Koopa

chubby: thresh is saying "theyre a sight to behold" for bloody single player, or just at the start when you're checking a game out, he even fuccking says he expects everyone will turn them off when theyre playing the game.

i dont know thresh, but i have his config.. and he sure as hell has EVERYTHING turned off.. ever look at thresh's QW config?

and jesus.. thresh had these settings turned off wayy back when we were just finding about them.. pity he is so rusty now in QW cos he has to praccy for q2 etc for tournaments, cos it woulda been nice to see what new tricks he mightve found.. after all, he has been playing for a very long time..

Chubby

Haha, at least it's not a duel to settle the argument I don't think I'll be in until after 11pm at least. Will log into irc and see if you're around then. Can give yas a game of Starcraft if you're up for it.

---

You gonna to finish that?
*munch*munch*

Chubby

Quake's been play to death in the last 2 years. Doubt there're any new tricks. Good for Thresh for playing games other than Quake. Anyway, enough about them americanos. Pak editing is cheating blah blah. What's the longest thread again? Hmmm, kinda bored repeating myself now.

---

You gonna to finish that?
*munch*munch*

Shiminay

this is too long and there's too much to read - but a couple of things jumped out at me...

My opinion is that modification of PAK files in any way is cheating. If I'm playing you and you're using a modified PAK, my stooping to your standards only makes me the bigger muppet. However, it is a perfectly valid point and to be honest, it's one of the few ways to survive.

With regards one of the things Mark said:

If everyone is using cheats, not only will it scare off newbies instantly, but it'll drive great players like cloud and co. away from the game. Maybe kill off quake in ireland.

Spot on. We do need fresh cannon-fodder, sorry, players somaybe a command like someone mentioned like the proxies that'll report any anomolies etc. would be a groovy idea.

Moving on - I feel Blade has brought up a HUGELY important point in the following:
Koloth

This would be a nice topic of conversation on our next **** up

Blade

No, girls would be a nice topic of conversation for the next p*ss up

The most valid point of all!!!

supporded my EWJ in:

actually this post is way too long - I don't really feel that strongly about the whole thing. If everyone is using the cheats then that's cool - I will too. Just not against people who don't use them. Like ronin said - it is a test and is designed for messing about with. This stuff isn't an issue until the full version is released.

Lets just test away till our hearts content until the final release hits our shelves!

---

All the best,

Dav
@B^)
homepage.tinet.ie/~davitt

WhiteWashMan

bah, ive already hacked it and now i cant get any of the pretty effects back.
my isp refuses ti allow me to d/l 23 mg of q3a test again so im afriad it'll have to stay.
anyway, if i beat you, you can just say 'well hes using a hacked file' and everyone will go 'ohhh, that made the diffeerence between 10 frags and 20 frags alright. rubbish, youre crap and wwman rox'

simpkle really.
anyway, who cares how many fps you get. mines capped at 40, so if i take out something atht would up it to about 500, it still will stay at 40.

muppets


whitewashman
green elf needs food ...... badly.

koloth

OK, I'm right about the EULA thing, it is illegal to make any modification of the pak files, full stop. Everyone else is wrong.

Here's what Todd Hollenshead had to say on the matter:

http://www.planetquake.com/ra2io/


Take it Koopa!!


However, this might only apply to q3test, we won't know the deal with the retail version of q3 until it comes out.

neo

Pak editing is cheating, no matter you do, if you modify anything it's a cheat. Anything that you edit to help you in some way that isn't in Options, is cheating.

But all I can say is, no matter what, you can't make something cheat proof, you can't stop everyone from making cheats, so it's just best to beat cheaters at there own trick, for instance, as you most know that my cheat site has brought up some interesting comments, but never the less, now that i have tried the cheats, i know how i can beat the cheaters without the cheats, for instance, Clear walls doesn't hack in quake 1, the Super Nail Gun area where the boxes are or the pent area, So, lure your cheating enemy there, and play him fairly, If you want to beat the Pure white pak, add a red dot or something to skin base, save it as a different name, and he will see you as a skin no matter what, and the only way he could do that is type noskins 1 which would take off the pure white. I can go on and on, Im sorta defending cheats in a way, but discouraging at the same time, trying them is ok, using them is lame. But this just goes to show you that cheating can make you smarter at beating a cheater.

Neo

earthworm_jim

firingsquad interviewed graham devine yesterday:

rsday June 03, 1999

FS. A lot of folks have been using “hacked” smoke trails in Q3test. While we feel that it introduces a natural disadvantage to using rockets, once everyone starts using “reasonably” modified files, it can just escalate from there. Will id tone down the rocket smoke a bit (some of the hacks leave the smoke intact and just raise the alpha transparency)?


GD:We’ll be working to stop hacks.

so that's pretty cool.

Hey - if you add this thread to clouds continuation of it, do you get more posts than blades record?

Gyck

This is interesting. If I play someone and I have a p3/500 and they have a p60, I have a big advantage, but I'm hardly cheating. It's unfair, but not cheating. Now, in a competition, this should be taken into account, but does it?

The same argument can be used with software setups: configs, pak hacks, newer drivers... ...I wouldn't expect to be accused of cheating cos I have a non-standard config or whatever.

What should be accounted for is that none of this is regulated. We're not affiliated to any governing body that calls the shots, or regulates whats in or out. Thats the way I like it, but if I was hardcore, I would probably like some rules to ensure that my skill is pitched against your skill, not my CPU against your CPU.

I would be interested to see how well people would do if they had to play each other on similar spec'd machines, with similar software setups. It would be a true measure of skill.

Hobbes

Not sure if you can really apply that argument. That is why they have LPB/HPB competitions to keep it somewhat fair.

If we were to compare it to another sport oh say Skiing, it would like saying because one of the entrants can't afford expensive top quality ski's that all the other entrants are cheating. However if one the entrants is using a ski bike to win, you would assume that's cheating

KinDreD

After reading all this ive come to the conclusion i don't give a ****......

Gyck

Sure, my argument is rather unrealistic, but it proves a point. Having HPB/LPB divisions helps to keep things fair, and you would be stupid to expect to do well using a heap of s**t, but in competitive situations, it would be fairer again if everyone had to use similar paks, etc.

As has been pointed out, most of us don't have a problem with small tweaks and mods. Taking things apart to find out how they work is part of the buzz.

I suppose I would only have a problem with it if it meant the mods/haks took away from palying a good game. Sure, some people like to kick the crap out of other players by using any and all methods, moral and immoral, but where's the fun in that? No skill.

Bunny

Gyck - we have already played on similar machines etc.

SeP

in competitions usually default paks are enforced
check the rapture99.com rules, not even FPS hacks allowed.