Westlink tollbridge

Cromwelly

I drive a Micra
You looking for a fight?

Spoken like a true Micra driver.

Our man in Havana

Originally posted by Cromwelly
Spoken like a true Micra driver.

LOL

Why do you hate us so much?

Cromwelly

Hate is such a strong word.

I only dislike Micras in fairness.

Now I hate

• White Vans
• The drivers of northern reg vehicles.
• The driver of the Guinness truck whose route involves the M50.
• Mothers who insist on using a Range Rover to drive 5 mins to their creche.
• Organised religion
• Travellers

I don't want to cause unnecessary offence here, just to be clear when I say travellers I mean those filthy, hedgehog eating caravan dwellers and not people who choose to travel the world. Especially via the Westlink Tollbridge.

To show balance, I think Motorbikes should be allowed through the worstlink toll free. I have never been stuck behind a motorbike. When bikers do really stupid things they tend to die young. Thus there are few old and incompetent bikers. Conversely car drivers over 60 should be forced to retest every morning. In Foxrock. Hate Foxrock.

Silvera

Conor Faughnan, of AA Ireland, has a simple but effective answer to the rush hour tail-backs at the West Link toilbooths -

simply let all vehicles through for free !!!

Sounds good eh !?!

Let me elaborate, he states that the government is already getting a tidy percentage of toll booth profits, and could easily subsidise each vehicle that passes through for a two hour period in the morning, and a two hour period in the evening (i.e. peak periods) - and still be left with a tidy sum !

(He quoted exact figures (€ millions !) in the press recently, but I don't have them to hand just now).

Congestion is currently costing the ecomony tens of millions (or is it hundreds of millions ?) each year, and this solution would be a drop-in-the-ocean in comparison !

Toll-free peak-period travel already happens in other countries.

Silvera.

Seth Brundle

With regard to Silvera's post, see http://www.aaireland.ie/news/article.asp?news_Id=293

Cromwelly

simply let all vehicles through for free !!!

That's not 'free' though, the government obtains revenue from taxpayers.
Why should taxpayers across Ireland be paying for the traffic problem on a single motorway bridge in Dublin ?

In fairness the Eazypass system works pretty well, I use the M50 every day and there are worse jams at some of the sliproads.

Force employers to stagger working hours.
Start photographing car windscreens to capture road tax evaders.
Start building a third lane.
Build an interconnecting public transport system.

Silvera

If you read kbannon's link above, you will see that these "toll-free periods" could easily be funded from money the government gets from toll's collected each day - not central exchequer funds.

(Your ideas are not bad either).


Even with the new bridge, the congestion situation has not improved much, therefore, Conor Faughnan's idea is still very relevant.

Seth Brundle

The easypass solution is only a partial help - those who use those lanes still are part of the huge queue waiting to get near the toll booths. Until the booths are opened during peak periods (or removed altogether ) then the problem will stay.
The situation on most European motorways is one where payment is usually collected when you are leaving the motorway, not half way down it.

Capt'n Midnight

Imagine if you took one euro per vehicle to pay for the new bridge.
€30m/70,000=429days= 14 months - less time than it took to build.
THE NEW BRIDGE SHOULD HAVE BEEN PAID FOR FROM EXISTING TOLLS BEFORE IT OPPENED

Sources:
The Westlink toll bridge is the busiest in Europe
http://www.city.ie/august2003/citynews01.htm
Current volumes are 70,000 vehicles per day, http://www.aaireland.ie/news/article.asp?news_Id=293)
http://www.nra.ie/News/PressReleases/2000/d115.HTML.html
The bridge and other improvement works will cost almost IR£17 million, which will be met by NTR (Actually was €30m when oppened)
Background to NTR
http://homepage.tinet.ie/~camway/key_issues/tolling/dan_white_20010923.htm

PEDESTRIAN/CYCLIST ROUTE AT SECOND WESTLINK BRIDGE.
http://www.fingalcoco.ie/minutes/2002/ff/0114/FF20020042.htm
(is this still a pipe dream ?)

Cromwelly

THE NEW BRIDGE SHOULD HAVE BEEN PAID FOR FROM EXISTING TOLLS BEFORE IT OPPENED

Err.. bit late for that though. I doubt that the government were forced at gunpoint to allow NTR to build the bridge. They were just shortsighted enough to allow them to do so. But they did, so there's no point wondering how many hospitals could have been built with the money instead.

If you read kbannon's link above, you will see that these "toll-free periods" could easily be funded from money the government gets from toll's collected each day - not central exchequer funds.

Ok, government collects less money than planned in exchange for opening the barriers in the rush hour.

Firstly, what service suffers as a result of this shortfall in revenue or how is the shortfall made up ?

Secondly, let's face it, people who don't otherwise need to will ensure they get through the toll bridge during 'happy hour'. It's amazing what people will do to save €1.30. It wouldn't be worse than at present but it will be damn busy.

gurramok

Originally posted by Capt'n Midnight
PEDESTRIAN/CYCLIST ROUTE AT SECOND WESTLINK BRIDGE.
(is this still a pipe dream ?)

The excuses they give are lame in that report. They couldn't of been arsed.
I know of a high level bridge in north of Holland going over a huge dyke where the height is comparable and the distance is longer where there is a pedestrian/cycle lane alongside the motorway with suffcient concrete barriers between the 4-wheelers and 2 wheelers.
If it were implemented here on the M50 toll bridge it would go a long way to encourage alternatives means of transport on that route.

Victor

Of course free peak time travel would mean everyone would travel peak time. However if you made it cheaper off peak then fewer people would use it peak time ....

Originally posted by kbannon
With regard to Silvera's post, see http://www.aaireland.ie/news/article.asp?news_Id=293

That press release is two years old.

Free is theft.

Silvera

The report may be two years old, but it is still very relevant because the second bridge hasn't alleviated the congestion problem to any great degree.

Free is not theft - Free peak-period travel makes sense compared to the current chaos.

Silent Bob

Originally posted by Victor
Free is theft.

Theft is when you steal something, vis I take something of yours and you no longer have it.

If a service is offered as 'free' then it is not theft. If the toll operators are informed by the government that they must offer a toll-free period then that isn't theft either, the toll operators are only there under licence from the government.

mobby

Like to see them open it up for for free for a day to see if it helps with the traffic, Surly it cost more in lost time, use of fuel being stuck in traffic, etc etc .
I never use it unless I have to, rather drive backroads may take longer but at least your moving (just)

Cromwelly

If the toll operators are informed by the government that they must offer a toll-free period then that isn't theft either

What gives the government the right to dictate anything to NTR ?
I thought their contract had another 17 odd years to run.

Capt'n Midnight

Q: What gives the government the right to dictate anything to NTR ?
A: Compulsary Purchase Order

If they had included the original 70meter limit on tail backs, if they had included a buy out clause (ie. a fair cap eg. 150% of remaining earnings based on the original projections) so I'm saying that negligence on the Gov'ts part with the contracts is the only reason why they would even need to consider a CPO - so while they can't solve the problem overnight - they could have it sorted before the Christmas rush. (Note to self - Avoid Blanchardstown)

While on the subject of Gov't negotiations at €30m to build the bridge it's a lot less than 1/30 of what abuse victims could get. €30m is also about 0.5% of the other jobs NRA have on thier books at the moment.

To be fair the bridge is more than 30 times what the Gov't will spend to open the Hospital in Blanch and there is [Expletive] all broadband in D15 either ....

Cromwelly

Compulsory purchase orders don't apply to rights under a contract as far as I know.

The Government could only offer to buy NTR's rights under the contract. I wouldn't like to see it, NTR have the edge over the gov in the area of competence and lack of corruption.

This is all by the by. The major delays aren't at the tollbridge, they are at every junction of the M50.

Victor

Originally posted by Silent Bob
Theft is when you steal something, vis I take something of yours and you no longer have it. If a service is offered as 'free' then it is not theft. If the toll operators are informed by the government that they must offer a toll-free period then that isn't theft either, the toll operators are only there under licence from the government.

Anything that doesn't have a user charge or an adequate user charge will be taken advantage of. For example, Dublin Corporation's income for parking meters (not including clamp release fee) doubled when they introduced clamping.

Likewise if the westlink is free at peak hours, people will only use it at peak hours. If anything it would be better to have it free off peak, to even out traffic flow.

Cromwelly

If anything it would be better to have it free off peak, to even out traffic flow.

WestLink off peak = between 03:10am and 03:15am.

Capt'n Midnight

WestLink off peak = between 03:10am and 03:15am

During Summer - excluding weekends / Thurdays / Ireland Away matchs / flooding