Man U v Arsenal

talla

Originally posted by mike65
The only other thread I've seen expand so quickly was when UTV announce thier flat rate product last Autumn!

I finally saw the incidents -

RVNs "tackle" was no clumsier than a thousand others, Vieras reaction was typical and deserved a straight Red in my book. RVN did exgagerate as he backed away but Viera still had it coming.

The facas after the whistle was inexcusable, nothing less than schoolyard bullying by Keown who you'd think might, at his age, be calming down just a little. Given that he did "lay hands" on RVN
he might well be up on a fizzer once the disaplinary panel have a look at the video.

A bad game and a lot of bad attitude by men who would claim they are functioning adults.

Mike.

Finally an objective view from an objective supporter(at least i think mike65 is a liverpool supporter from his previous posts? sorry if im offending u mike? It was an average game, where the result was fair

UbahOne

If Giggs free kick had a touch or a bit more swerve it was in...

If Van Nistelrooy had headed that in, it was another one.

Quite unlucky for Utd but i suppose fair result. Cant wait to see what the FA do about Arsenal. They have serious serious SERIOUS disciplinary issues.

jesus_thats_gre

Originally posted by UbahOne
If Giggs free kick had a touch or a bit more swerve it was in...

If Van Nistelrooy had headed that in, it was another one.

Quite unlucky for Utd but i suppose fair result. Cant wait to see what the FA do about Arsenal. They have serious serious SERIOUS disciplinary issues.

The result was pretty fair..

I like to think I can be impartial too, bit offended by that

UbahOne

The result was pretty fair..I like to think I can be impartial too, bit offended by that

???????

Ronan|Raven

Originally posted by UbahOne
Blah Blah Blah

N.T.

gandalf

OK I'll comment on the match in another post. This is about all the personal abuse I've seen in this thread.

UbahOne is banned from Soccer for good. I have warned this "person" before about their attitude they ignored me, therefore they are out of here for good.

When I have time I will look over this thread and if I spot anyone else I have warned for the same they will meet the same fate.

I have no problems with rivalries etc but when I see the depths of immature drivel that this thread has decended to in sections I really really get pissed off.

This is a final warning. Take notice of the no personal insults rule or be prepared to be banned from here for good and if I think it warrents it to have me push the admins to ban you from boards

Gandalf.

gandalf

Right now onto the match.

Paddy deserved to go. He was stupid and especially given the recent history with regards to kicking out he should have realised that he would have been sent off. Arsene needs to calm him down.

Van Divesalot should have gone as well. He jumped up on top of Paddy and was not even going for the ball, he played the man (which is a yellow card imho) and on the way down he did kick out at Paddy and unlike Paddy he made contact. Straight Red card.

As for the scenes after the final whistle I expect Keown and Lauren to get bringing the game into disrepute charges and them to get some form of bans and fines. I would doubt that Arsenal will be deducted points as it was all really handbags at 10 paces stuff. I would question having the same ref who was in charge of the charity shield thou.

As for the actual match, it was dire and as a Arsenal fan I will freely admit we were lucky to get a point out of this.

Gandalf.

Makaveli

Originally posted by UbahOne
If Giggs free kick had a touch or a bit more swerve it was in...

If Van Nistelrooy had headed that in, it was another one.

Quite unlucky for Utd but i suppose fair result. Cant wait to see what the FA do about Arsenal. They have serious serious SERIOUS disciplinary issues.

If, if, if.
Ifs and buts are not much use.
0-0 was a fitting result for a dire game. Arsenal were so lack lustre and letargic in the first half it made the game a joke.
In the 2nd half when they tried attacking, they were too lazy to make runs. Henry sticks out in my mind for just standing there and giving Freddy Ljunberg nothing.
Utd, didnt dazzle either. Ronaldo tried to make the game exciting, but how many stepovers can you do before it gets old?
Ashley Cole copped on to his game fairly quickly. Ronaldo is good, but he has a hell of alot to prove and the same trick game in game out does not make him world class as some people on this thread seem to think he is.

Villain

Originally posted by gandalf
. I would doubt that Arsenal will be deducted points as it was all really handbags at 10 paces stuff. I would question having the same ref who was in charge of the charity shield thou.
Gandalf.

Well said Gandalf.

We obviously have a lot of UTD fans on here which is fair but I thought boards was where people could discuss there opinions without the kind of insulting name calling that went on here tonight.

Do you not think that UbahOne's posts should be deleted there childish narrow minded and ignorant.

I just can't wait to see the papers tommorrow and how the media will blow this out of the water.

I can see the back page of the Sun now

"Van Nistelrooy beaten off the pitch lucky to escape alive"

gandalf

Ubahones posts are not going to be deleted because I have banned him permanently I want them there in case the admins need to check them out (ie if he complains to them or if I ask them to ban him from boards.).

Just as a side not 3 other posters have been warned that if I see anymore personal abuse on soccer board threads they will be banned as well.

Gandalf.

m0o|Dino

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fcuk you gandalf

unban me you said a week

m0o|Dino

Mrs keane and Roy were sat in front of the Television (both in her underwear) watching the Six o'clock news. The headline feature was a man who was threatening to jump off the Clifton Suspension Bridge onto the busy road below. Mrs keane turns to Roy and says "Roy, I bet you £5000 that he jumps!" to which Keane replies "5000! Done" The pair shake on it and continue watching the commotion on the TV. Sure enough, the man jumps and hits the road below with a loud thud. Keane takes 5000 out of his pocket and gives it to his wife. "I can't take that from you, Roy" she says. "I was cheating. I saw the five o'clock news so I knew what was going to happen. I can't accept that money". Roy replies "No darling. The money is yours fair and square. I was cheating too, I saw the news at five. I just didn't think he would do it again!!!"



Ruud is 6ft tall and very strong and fast. How much pressure need be
applied to make him tumble over in the opponents penalty area? (note
answers must be in lbs per square inch. However, answers such as however
much pressure is applied by Ferguson to referees are accepted

WhiteWashMan

now im neither an arsenal or a man utd fan, but what i do support is good football.
and that was worse than an old firm match to be honest.
it was appalling football.

on the other hand, the slapstick antics of the players was amusing.

however, one thing i think arsenal fans should think about is the fact that while van nistleroy has a habit of falling over, i think you should look to some of your own players who take professional high board lessons.
a certain ashley cole who falls over in a low breeze if theres a chance of a booking being one of them.
now, i dont care what way you look at it, but at least have the decency to say that 'diving' is either part of the game, or its stupid, but dont mix and match depending on who the person diving is.

yop

Paddy deserved to go. He was stupid and especially given the recent history with regards to kicking out he should have realised that he would have been sent off. Arsene needs to calm him down.


Van Divesalot should have gone as well. He jumped up on top of Paddy and was not even going for the ball, he played the man (which is a yellow card imho) and on the way down he did kick out at Paddy and unlike Paddy he made contact. Straight Red card


As for the scenes after the final whistle I expect Keown and Lauren to get bringing the game into disrepute charges and them to get some form of bans and fines. I would doubt that Arsenal will be deducted points as it was all really handbags at 10 paces stuff. I would question having the same ref who was in charge of the charity shield thou.

As for the actual match, it was dire and as a Arsenal fan I will freely admit we were lucky to get a point out of this

EXACTLY as I saw the match, was a crap match, United should have won it, Did not think it was a penalty so justice was done, RVN went for the man, not the ball, not sure about the "kick" there was intent so he probably should have gone.

Thought Lehmann got involved a bit too much, was in the face of the ref a number of times, lad should concentrate on his game as he was not impressive.

The FA have to look at Arsenal and put them in their place once and for all, Wenger has a lot to do with this, United had the same issue a few years back and Fergie got on it and sorte it, RVN has pushed at least once at the end, Keown jumped on him and cole shouldered into him, maybe the FA will look at it, probably not, I think it is up the Wenger to look at it and tell them to grow up.

Should be an interesting return match.

The only one that gained from this match is Chelswee

yop

"And whatever Van Nistelrooy did, it did not merit the childish stupidity that Arsenal showed at the final whistle. Arsene Wenger's reaction, once again refusing to accept that his side were in the wrong, was sadly predictable. At least he shook hands with Sir Alex Ferguson rather than slapping him, but otherwise he showed himself a poor leader of men, a setter of bad examples, a lesser man than I believed and hoped him to be."

Saw this on Football365.com

Think it sums it up well

TwoShedsJackson

Originally posted by m0o|Dino
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fcuk you gandalf

unban me you said a week

Yeah get him to unban you by telling him to go fuck himself. Nice one!! :rolleyes:

jank

Originally posted by gandalf


UbahOne is banned from Soccer for good. I have warned this "person" before about their attitude they ignored me, therefore they are out of here for good.


Gandalf.

nice one gandalf

i was getting tired of his mindless dribble and spamming

Thanx 4 The Fish

Bad game, but a fair result at the end of the day, I reckon that the penalty was a tough call but I have seen less given. How many penalites has RVN missed in recent times, perhaps he should stand aside and let someone else have a turn.

Shame about the end of the game, doesn't do much for the premiership when things like that happen. People with their kids there and at home watching this and the example set by both sets of players was a poor one.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Originally posted by m0o|Dino
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fcuk you gandalf

unban me you said a week

Perhaps you should PM if you wish to remind a mod to unban you, you may get a better response.

You do not seem to have learned any lesson from your time away, banned for a week.

In case I forget, perhaps you should pm me when you are due back.

cournioni

Originally posted by jank
nice one gandalf

i was getting tired of his mindless dribble

He's not the only one doing the "mindless dribble". :rolleyes:

jank

oh get over it pornaster

saying keown practially close lined Horseface WWE style is mindless dribble!!
bet u were watching unforgiven last night!!

Thanx 4 The Fish

Let's keep it to the football lads.

cournioni

Originally posted by jank
oh get over it pornaster

saying keown practially close lined Horseface WWE style is mindless dribble!!
bet u were watching unforgiven last night!!

You are acting like a child though.

I didn't say that Keown closelined him, I said he more or less elbow dropped van Nistelrooy. No, I wasn't watching it.

jank

ok elbow drop close line both wrestling moves but what u said was complete exageration!!

as far as im concerned the case is closed for me just have to wait what the fa has to say altough there appears to have been a tunnel bust up after the game between viera and rvn wouldnt believe though

people can say anything about aresnal these days and get away with it

jesus_thats_gre

Ahem football....

cournioni

Originally posted by jank
people can say anything about aresnal these days and get away with it

Whose fault is that? In fairness.

s8n

back on topic please ladies....

Football should be the only winner here.

smemon

fa are supposed to be issuing a six-figure fine and 5 individual fines and bans (maybe) to arsenal players.

vieira should shut his face, as should wenger, if ruud is a cheat which he is not, but if he was, so what?? no need to start a scrap and celebrate in his face. wenger nor vieira have absolutely NO CASE. they cant possible defend what happened. people who call ruud a cheat have to put pires in the same bracket.

arsenal should be deducted points and fined a few million. they HAVE to learn its football their supposed to be playing.

jesus_thats_gre

Originally posted by smemon
fa are supposed to be issuing a six-figure fine and 5 individual fines and bans (maybe) to arsenal players.

vieira should shut his face, as should wenger, if ruud is a cheat which he is not, but if he was, so what?? no need to start a scrap and celebrate in his face. wenger nor vieira have absolutely NO CASE. they cant possible defend what happened. people who call ruud a cheat have to put pires in the same bracket.

arsenal should be deducted points and fined a few million. they HAVE to learn its football their supposed to be playing.

That is the most one sided thing I have ever saw on this thing. I am neither a United or an Arsenal supporter and hope I can be unbiased with regard to this.

Ruud is not a cheat, he is a faker and it has been highlighted on many occassions by people here, on TV and the press. The man is renowned for it.. Just get over it.. The man is constantly involved in some sort of controversy over the issuing of bookings or penalty decisions..

As for Vierra, he deserved to be send off.. Simple.. As for the frucas at the end, it was a disgrace and will hopefully not happen again.. To say the should be find a couple of mill is nonsence and so is the suggestion they should be docked points.. Each player should be dealt with solely on there individual actions and the club should be warned that if their behaviour continues to lapse, they will then be punished...

STOP BEING SO ONE SIDED FOR GODS SAKES, ITS SO FRUSTRATING.

smemon

Originally posted by jesus_thats_gre

Each player should be dealt with solely on there individual actions and the club should be warned that if their behaviour continues to lapse, they will then be punished...

52 or 3 red cards and all you expect them to get is a warning?! how many warnings do they need?? and this time all the problems were AFTER the game. arsenal always think their the victims, their the innocent ones, now they have no excuses.

what happened sunday was disgraceful and uncalled for. deducting points or a hefty fine is the only way arsenal will learn. you cant give them a warning, theyve had too many.

jesus_thats_gre

52 red bards in 7 years though... only 7 or so a year... its sounds very different when put that way...

As for them being punished, all those sending offs and yellow cards have resulted in suspensions of some sort. They have been dealt with already, this cant be punished for the same thing twice. Their discipline problem will be their own downfall in the long run... There is no need for the FA to get involved on a club level regarding points or money.

The Muppet

what happened sunday was disgraceful and uncalled for. deducting points or a hefty fine is the only way arsenal will learn. you cant give them a warning, theyve had too many.

I wouln,t be in favour of deducting points because it will devalue the whole competition. The indivudual players should be punished by a ban or fine or both. If The Club is to be opunished it should be a Fine. I want whatever team who wins the League to be the best football team in it. If Points are deducted from any team that may not be the case.

jesus_thats_gre

Originally posted by The Muppet
I wouln,t be in favour of deducting points because it will devalue the whole competition. The indivudual players should be punished by a ban or fine or both. If The Club is to be opunished it should be a Fine. I want whatever team who wins the League to be the best football team in it. If Points are deducted from any team that may not be the case.

Also, the last thing I want and do doubt any supporters want to happens is the following scenrio....

The season is closely contested as always - that is 5 or 6 points seperating the the top 2.. Likely to involve Arsenal and United.... Arsenal to be leading United by a hanful of points come April, then Arseneal get deducted 5 or so point after a drawn out FA hearing...... United/Liverpool/Chelsea go on to win the league by 1 or 2 points ahead of Arsenal........

Thus creating 10 years of crying.... Ohh I can hear it already..



If you were a REAL fan, you wouldnt want this to happen.

GuanYin

Right, no the childishness has died down I'll add my two cents worth.

I'm not surprised it was a boring match. There was so much at stake and it had been over hyped (in how exciting it was going to be) beyond belief that odds were good that it would be an anti-climax. This was an important match, especially for Arsenal. The record books show that both time arsenal have won this fixture, they have won the title. I don't believe that that was an issue for them, but it is, as they say, a 6 pointer, and a huge springboard to mount a challenge from.

I'm not surprised it was violent either. I always bet on a red card for Utd-Arsenal matches. I usually bet on an Arsenal player getting it. Not because they are dirtier or more vicious, but because Utd are masters at provoking reactions. Don't get me wrong, Arsenal do it too, Keown provoked a Roma player into lashing out and getting sent off last year in the CL. Its quite simply that Utd are masters at it, and Arsenal always rise to the bate. I'd like to say that Utd don't try and provoke the reaction, but in the last 3 matches I've seen between the two teams, I honestly think that they do. the main point is tho, Arsenal should know better at this stage.

And Viera should have know better. He deserved to be booked at least for the Van-Nist incident. Did he deserve the first yellow? Hrmmmm I think he won the ball, I don't think the ref got that right and as such, he was unlucky to be sent off. One could well argue that he deserved a straight red for intent on the kick, and that Bennet was actually being lenient to recind his earlier mistake. I dunno.

However, its all very well to tar and feather Viera as he got caught red handed. He got caught, partly at least, because of Ruud's reaction, which was unwarrented. Van Nist reacted as he did in order to get Viera into trouble, plain and simple. I'm not justifying Viera's actions in any way, but Ruud' reaction was not pretty and its not something that should be in the game, and I would challenge any supporter of football to try and justify it.

There were many other incidents that equally warrented the referee's attention, that did not get a flamboyant reaction. Fortune deliberately went through Lehmann. It can be argued that he was trying to get the ball, but it was the 93rd minute, rushing to take a penalty served Utd no purpose and its hard to imagine any rational reason for the manner in which he went about it. After the whistle Ashley Cole went through Ronaldo and pure and simple should be suspended. Likewise Gary Neville took a swing at Parlour, and while it didn't connect, there was intent (whee have I heard that before), he too should get a ban.

The penalty may or may not have been a penalty, if the same thing happened in a charlton-boro match themajority of peopl would shrug and say, sometimes they're given, sometimes they're not. Its simply that, I wouldn't dispute it, Forlan was never going to score anyway, he looked too far off the ball.

Keowns reaction goes back to the provoking, I guess after being on the receiving end for 90 minutes he wante dto get his own back, unfortunately he still needs to learn the subtlety that Van Nist and co display when doing it. Such a blatent display can't really be excused. There were really no winners (not surprising in a 0-0 draw) and as bad as Arsenal were in they're behaviour, Utd can not call themselves blameless. There was an awful lot of cause and effect in what happened.

jesus_thats_gre

Originally posted by sykeirl
Right, no the childishness has died down I'll add my two cents worth.

I'm not surprised it was a boring match. There was so much at stake and it had been over hyped (in how exciting it was going to be) beyond belief that odds were good that it would be an anti-climax. This was an important match, especially for Arsenal. The record books show that both time arsenal have won this fixture, they have won the title. I don't believe that that was an issue for them, but it is, as they say, a 6 pointer, and a huge springboard to mount a challenge from.

I'm not surprised it was violent either. I always bet on a red card for Utd-Arsenal matches. I usually bet on an Arsenal player getting it. Not because they are dirtier or more vicious, but because Utd are masters at provoking reactions. Don't get me wrong, Arsenal do it too, Keown provoked a Roma player into lashing out and getting sent off last year in the CL. Its quite simply that Utd are masters at it, and Arsenal always rise to the bate. I'd like to say that Utd don't try and provoke the reaction, but in the last 3 matches I've seen between the two teams, I honestly think that they do. the main point is tho, Arsenal should know better at this stage.

And Viera should have know better. He deserved to be booked at least for the Van-Nist incident. Did he deserve the first yellow? Hrmmmm I think he won the ball, I don't think the ref got that right and as such, he was unlucky to be sent off. One could well argue that he deserved a straight red for intent on the kick, and that Bennet was actually being lenient to recind his earlier mistake. I dunno.

However, its all very well to tar and feather Viera as he got caught red handed. He got caught, partly at least, because of Ruud's reaction, which was unwarrented. Van Nist reacted as he did in order to get Viera into trouble, plain and simple. I'm not justifying Viera's actions in any way, but Ruud' reaction was not pretty and its not something that should be in the game, and I would challenge any supporter of football to try and justify it.

There were many other incidents that equally warrented the referee's attention, that did not get a flamboyant reaction. Fortune deliberately went through Lehmann. It can be argued that he was trying to get the ball, but it was the 93rd minute, rushing to take a penalty served Utd no purpose and its hard to imagine any rational reason for the manner in which he went about it. After the whistle Ashley Cole went through Ronaldo and pure and simple should be suspended. Likewise Gary Neville took a swing at Parlour, and while it didn't connect, there was intent (whee have I heard that before), he too should get a ban.

The penalty may or may not have been a penalty, if the same thing happened in a charlton-boro match themajority of peopl would shrug and say, sometimes they're given, sometimes they're not. Its simply that, I wouldn't dispute it, Forlan was never going to score anyway, he looked too far off the ball.

Keowns reaction goes back to the provoking, I guess after being on the receiving end for 90 minutes he wante dto get his own back, unfortunately he still needs to learn the subtlety that Van Nist and co display when doing it. Such a blatent display can't really be excused. There were really no winners (not surprising in a 0-0 draw) and as bad as Arsenal were in they're behaviour, Utd can not call themselves blameless. There was an awful lot of cause and effect in what happened.

I agree with everything you said and think I have made the same points.. I dont think what you have said can be disputed..

mr_angry

The whole thing is a storm in a tea-cup. I think the biggest disgrace is that its been given so much attention. What actually physically happened in the entire game? Absolutely nothing. Did Viera actually kick Van Nistelrooy? Nope. Did Martin Keown "elbow-drop" Van Nistelrooy? I think that's the biggest exaggeration I've ever heard! Did Lauren shove him a bit in the back? Yes.

So, what do we have after this analysis? A bit of an accidental "nudge" from Keown, and a mild shove from Lauren. Hardly 10 rounds with a heavyweight was it?

cournioni

Vieira's first booking was for persistant fouling.

GuanYin

Originally posted by PORNAPSTER
Vieira's first booking was for persistant fouling.

Fair enough, but the incident which led to it, wasn't in my opinion, a foul.

Dustaz

Originally posted by sykeirl
Right, no the childishness has died down I'll add my two cents worth.
.....

The most sense that has been posted to this topic or this board in a long time
......

I was away for the weekend and watched the match in a bar in scotland and this post sums up my thoughts on this perfectly.


Its just a pity i had to wade through 6 pages of nonsense to get to it (with notable exceptions).

I cant really add anything to it at all except to note the difference between this and the last time there was this much fuss about a fracas between the teams (and i still maintain that the point deductions were the wrong way round .... but thats another argument )

tomED

Sorry came at this late but I just had to write someting.....

United were at no fault as to what happened at the end of the match as was suggested in previuos posts - that was a disgraceful display from Arsenal players.

Ruud IMHO handled the whole situation great, if anyone is a true Ruud fan you will know that Ruud had a terrible discipline with previuos clubs and was often the one to over react to these situations. He was sent off on numerous occassions for retaliating with fists and flying feet.

I don't think Ruud was looking for Viera to be sent off, I think Ruud was as shocked as I was to see someone like Viera throw a leg like that, Viera with all his experience, on a yellow card - there was absolutely no need for that.

The thing that everyone is overlooking is that the referee also thought it was a minor incident and only gave him a yellow card. If the referee thought it was retaliation he would have had to give him a straight red.

But this isn't going to end here as we all know - There is a lot of rivalry which between the clubs which just hypes the whole situation.

For arsenal to come out with "Ruud is a diver" is a laugh, we had only just got over a week of the news on how Pires admits to diving and had just got a penalty after diving... it's part of his game - yeah everyone hates it, but it happens. Does this make it ok for Keown to come and jump on Ruud's back, obviuosly lookin for a reaction - I don't think so.

I think any sensible football supporter finds arsenals whole attitude a complete disgrace, if you cant see that.... You must be an arsenal supporter.....

GuanYin

Originally posted by tomED
Sorry came at this late but I just had to write someting.....

United were at no fault as to what happened at the end of the match as was suggested in previuos posts - that was a disgraceful display from Arsenal players.

So Fortune clattering into a static Lehmann and G. Neville swinging a punch at Parlour is classed as "not at fault"?
How do you justify this?

Originally posted by tomED
Ruud IMHO handled the whole situation great, if anyone is a true Ruud fan you will know that Ruud had a terrible discipline with previuos clubs and was often the one to over react to these situations. He was sent off on numerous occassions for retaliating with fists and flying feet.

Actually, he was more renowned for provoking players into reacting and then hitting back. I watched many a match where he "innocently" backed into someone or momentum caried him through to stamp on a keeper for a ball he had no chance of getting.

Past aside, the challenge on Viera was reckless, his reaction to viera kicking out, who was two feet away, was a huge overreaction which lasted longer than the actual kick (god bless sky's analysis).

Ruud handled the end part very well, but his behaviour in the flashpoint to the whole debacle was petty and wrong.

Originally posted by tomED
I don't think Ruud was looking for Viera to be sent off, I think Ruud was as shocked as I was to see someone like Viera throw a leg like that, Viera with all his experience, on a yellow card - there was absolutely no need for that..

I don't think I can agree with this. Given his history and the fact that he initiated the tussle (with his clumsy challenge) I think he was looking for trouble, but thats just my opinion.

Originally posted by tomED
The thing that everyone is overlooking is that the referee also thought it was a minor incident and only gave him a yellow card. If the referee thought it was retaliation he would have had to give him a straight red.

Not at all, Viera deserved to go, I'm surprised it was a yellow and not a red. I'm not saying Ruud should be punished, but his attitude in overreacting to get another player in trouble is disgraceful, as even the most staunch Utd fan on these boards has admitted.

Originally posted by tomED
For arsenal to come out with "Ruud is a diver" is a laugh, we had only just got over a week of the news on how Pires admits to diving and had just got a penalty after diving... it's part of his game - yeah everyone hates it, but it happens. Does this make it ok for Keown to come and jump on Ruud's back, obviuosly lookin for a reaction - I don't think so..

Noone called Ruud a diver, they said that he deliberately tried to get a fellow player into trouble. Its a disgusting part of the game and no real footballer should defend or condone it.

Keown was a complete fool, he deserves whatever punishment he gets, as do the otehr players involved.

Originally posted by tomED
I think any sensible football supporter finds arsenals whole attitude a complete disgrace, if you cant see that.... You must be an arsenal supporter.....

Thats rich, so "agree with me or your an arsenal fan"?
I take it you support Utd :rolleyes:

Look, Arsenal players deserve to be punished in whatever way the FA see fit, however I think anyone who can't see the lesser but still serious mis-behaviour of Utd players, really is just viewing the world through red tinted glasses.

BKtje

Ruud handled the end part very well, but his behaviour in the flashpoint to the whole debacle was petty and wrong.

Im still not convinved he over reacted. When someone has tried to do something similar to me i reacted in exactly the same way. Pull ur stomach in (and the dangly bits ) and jump back, then look around to see if the ref saw it. I've seen friends of mine actually jump back further than that (and no during rugby this is quite acommon thing so no sendings off and stuff). Maybe its just me but i think he reacted like most people would. No one likes to be kicked. (or even attempted to be kicked)

smemon

at the end of the day arsenal started it all. there was absolutely no need for vieira to kick out or keown to push ruud and celebrate in his face.

utd shouldnt be getting stick for all this, nor ruud, arsenal are the bad boys here. this time theres no excuses, no hiding, no blaming the other team, no blaming the ref, arsenal are in big trouble and they know it. all because of themselves, nobody else but themselves.

ruud was singled out by experienced arsenal players deliberately. if u see your teammate getting shoved about and abused you dont stand there like a statue. the utd players tried to pull the arsenal players and ruud away. i didnt see neville throw a punch but if he did then he too should be heavily fined and banned.

The Muppet

Poste by Sykeirl

but his attitude in overreacting to get another player in trouble is disgraceful, as even the most staunch Utd fan on these boards has admitted.

Which Utd fan said ruud actions were disgraceful as i have not seen this post?

tomED

Originally posted by sykeirl
So Fortune clattering into a static Lehmann and G. Neville swinging a punch at Parlour is classed as "not at fault"?
How do you justify this?

Would you stop - Fortune ran into Lehman to get the ball to take the penalty, you see that every week. Neville is still said to "apparently" have thrown a punch, no-one has seen this yet and if he did - thats a disgrace, but it was after all the ****e that Arsenal started.

Actually, he was more renowned for provoking players into reacting and then hitting back. I watched many a match where he "innocently" backed into someone or momentum caried him through to stamp on a keeper for a ball he had no chance of getting.

No he wasn't he was more reknowned for his bad temper - look it up you'll find a lot of interesting facts about his career. It's something that nearly ended his career on more than one occassion. When I say ended (just to clarify) I mean being thrown out of clubs.

Past aside, the challenge on Viera was reckless, his reaction to viera kicking out, who was two feet away, was a huge overreaction which lasted longer than the actual kick (god bless sky's analysis).

Ruud handled the end part very well, but his behaviour in the flashpoint to the whole debacle was petty and wrong.

I still can't agree with you there - his reaction seemed to be late in slow motion, in real-time it didnt look so slow, as I said in my first post his reaction more a reaction of disbelieve than of a malicious intent (IMO).

Noone called Ruud a diver, they said that he deliberately tried to get a fellow player into trouble. Its a disgusting part of the game and no real footballer should defend or condone it.

Sorry - but he was accused of being a diver - by wenger himself. "He is a great player but his attitude... he is always looking for... looking to dive. He looks a nice boy but on the pitch it is not always fair behaviour."
That's exactly what he said on Sky sports after the game.
I'm not convinced he looked to get Viera into trounble anyway, but only he himself knows whether he did or not.

Thats rich, so "agree with me or your an arsenal fan"?
I take it you support Utd :rolleyes:

My statement was:
I think any sensible football supporter finds arsenals whole attitude a complete disgrace, if you cant see that.... You must be an arsenal supporter.....

And yes I am a Man United supporter, but if they acted this way I would be disgusted too. This is becase every real football supporter I have talked to since Sunday has agreed that Arsenal were complete scum***s and utterly unprofessional. And all of these were extremely disgusted at what they went on like.

however I think anyone who can't see the lesser but still serious mis-behaviour of Utd players, really is just viewing the world through red tinted glasses.

Please tell us how the man u players were so wrong!!
Was it because ruud reacted to a complete over reaction by Viera? Was it because fortune went in to grab the ball from a protesting keeper how should have just giving the ball to the opposite to take a penalty, or was it because SUPPOSEDLY neville throw a punch at an arsenal player who had taken part in a mass abuse of one united player??????

There are at least 6 Arsenal players that are looking at being charged, that reflects on Arsenal as a team, these minor incidents by united plaers will look bad on the individual NOT the team.

I don't think it makes a difference who you support, if you can't see that Arsenal's behaviuor was wrong, wel I think its you that is looking through tinted glasses my friend.......

Dustaz

How have people not seen nevilles thrown punch yet? I guess theyre not showing it on MUTV

In fairness, fortune going for the ball through lehmann was a little bit more raucous than one would normally be.

The Muppet

This is becase every real football supporter I have talked to since Sunday has agreed that Arsenal were complete scum***s and utterly unprofessional. And all of these were extremely disgusted at what they went on like.

I have spoken to quit a few supporters of different clubs at work and have had the same experience.

, if you can't see that Arsenal's behaviuor was wrong, wel I think its you that is looking through tinted glasses my friend....... .

This comment could apply to quite a few people here.

I have not seeen Nevilles alledged punch either. has anyone actually seen it?

Gangsta

Originally posted by smemon
arsenal were an absolute disgrace. behaviour was bloody awful. keown is a complete fool for taunting van after he missed the peno. parlour and co pushed him after the final whistle gone. disgraceful.

van nistlerooy is the absoute model pro for not reacting. he kept his head down and ran into the tunnel. no player should have to endure that.

As usual, its smemon leading the fray against Arsenal

Gangsta

Originally posted by Makaveli
Model pro my ass, he was shiting his pants.

Ride on!

Gangsta

Originally posted by B-K-DzR
Errr i dont think so, at least his face was more depressed than scared. He just wanted outta there and bury his head in his hands. Even if he was ****ting his pants my first reaction if i had been him would have been to start shoving em back and telling em where to stick it. He kept his cool (prob helped by his depression) and ran off the pitch.

Arsenal need to be disciplined, hard imo. Scum absolute scum

He was depressed cuz he missed his only chance to win. Did every1 see his reaction to vieira attempt to hit him? he was a yard away from vieira's leg and that is quite a distance considering it's vieira.